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Fluffy
Administrator
USA
10739 Posts |
 Posted - 01/29/2003 : 05:55:38 AM
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Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy         
"THE MUSIC BUSINESS IS A CRUEL AND SHALLOW MONEY TRENCH-- A LONG PLASTIC HALLWAY WHERE THIEVES AND PIMPS RUN FREE AND GOOD MEN DIE LIKE DOGS. THERE'S ALSO A NEGATIVE SIDE..." -Hunter S. Thompson |
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GRock
Try A Little Harder
93 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2003 : 09:41:55 AM
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Hey CCR. it breaks my heart to hear about these guys that do that. in that situation my friends and i have a policy of playing "defense" and talking to people one on one so they know that this guy is not living in the love and grace of God but in a fear for his soul. there is an element of fear that should be there but that is not "the message" Christians offer.
Jesus was a pretty cool and he didn't take no crap from no one. he put up with the disciples and was all like "who cares what the others think...who do you say that i am." it had to be frustrating dealing with all these people of such little faith. and then to walk into a temple, a temple erected to worship God, of whom you are, and see all this befilement. He was pissed off. It says in psalms that our saviour is a warrior. and he will defeat evil and that was evil so jesus took a stand.
now for that Brimstone character preaching out on the lawn, he is an idiot. no one is doing anything to his temple. and terri has it right in what was said there. quote:
I might tell him to look to his own Bible and see if ever there was a time that Jesus himself talked to people in this way.
Jesus didn't run around yelling tales of fire and brimstone; he showed love and compassion.
ughh. i just get all in a tizzy about these people. however i do have a good friend (named Tom Short and if you ever get a chance to see him he is honest and very informative) that does this for a living but when he goes to a campus, he is first of all smart enough to do it when it is warm out. and second his message is of love. and he will hear out many opinions and even concede points to those who are correct in things. he preaches from the Bible and again is just telling people about his Friend.
if you've ever had that feeling (like about a love interest) where you just want to shout it from the rooftops to everyone and tell them about this awesome person you met, well that is kinda how it is when we meet Jesus. Jesus saved us from hell and if you accept his friendship, hell is no worry of yours and really, in the grand scheme of things, won't matter anymore.
and on a much lighter note, thanks for the complemint victorwootenfan. it is nice to hear that confirmation. |
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Ccr152
Chatterbox
145 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2003 : 12:07:24 PM
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| everything you said was great. people like you and tom short should be the "spokemodels" for christianity, and its a shame that a lot of people's only experience with the religion is with "brimstone" jerks. but another question i have...you said that you befriended jesus and now you dont have to worry about going to hell. i, in my opinion, am a very nice person. i am outwarldly kind to people and all i care about in life is making the people i love happy. i love music, and art, and film, and beauty in general. however, i am not a religous person. i have not befriended jesus, and i have nothing against anyone who has. does this mean im going to hell? |
take it easy. http://briefcase.yahoo.com/ccr152
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GRock
Try A Little Harder
93 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2003 : 12:29:07 PM
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CCR, yes. i hate to say that so bluntly but that is the design that God has made. but that doesn't have to be your fate.
http://www.greatcom.org/laws/english/ " target="_blank"> http://www.greatcom.org/laws/english/
here is a site to explain the four simple spiritual laws.
or http://www.greatcom.org/laws/english/flash/ " target="_blank"> http://www.greatcom.org/laws/english/flash/ is the same thing but with flash
of course i also want to say that it is okay to not accept a relationship with Christ. Maybe you aren't ready to make that kind of commitment but He will accept you where you are. like i said He is asking you to be friends.
and to quote myself quote:
whether you believe in God, you could even pray that He lead you to the truth. it's worth a shot...
oh and about being a spokesmodel for christianity, i think i should leave that job to Christ. i don't know. but thanks. |
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Silky The Pimp
Alien Abductee
3321 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2003 : 1:52:56 PM
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quote:
i, in my opinion, am a very nice person. i am outwarldly kind to people and all i care about in life is making the people i love happy. i love music, and art, and film, and beauty in general. however, i am not a religous person. i have not befriended jesus, and i have nothing against anyone who has. does this mean im going to hell?
quote:
CCR, yes. i hate to say that so bluntly but that is the design that God has made. but that doesn't have to be your fate.
Hmm... that makes it sounds like the point of religion is much more to accept Jesus than to live a worthy life. I personally find that to be a hard pill to swallow.
Just out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on the truly good people of religions other than Christianity (Judaism, Islam etc...)? In most cases, people of other religions do not choose their own religion; rather, they're born into them. To take that idea further... assuming that Jesus really IS the only way to heaven... if someone is born to, say, a Hindu family, it could very well take more than one man's lifetime for him to understand HIMSELF well enough to gain the necessary perspicacity to accept Jesus into his spiritual world. To say that the most riteous of people would be damned to an eternity in hell simply because they didn't accept Jesus as their savior within their lifetime seems to be more a fickle human idea than that of an all knowing and forgiving god.
I'd also be curious to hear what you have to say about children of other religions. It would again seem a bit too human of an idea to me to damn children born to other religions to an eternity in hell should they die before they can "convert." Beyond that... it seems to me that what you're saying is that the words themselves are meaningless without taking them to heart. Anyone can SAY, "I accept Jesus," but those words by themselves have little to no meaning unless they are said with honesty... which would bring up the idea of even Christian born children who go to church may say the words, but may only grasp a modicum of their meaning until MUCH later in life. What of those children should they die?
I must say... this thread is a monument of the idea of shared individuality. I can look at any given post and find both something that I agree with, and something I don't hold to be true myself. But seeing all these different ideas is refreshing, because I know that sometimes I forget that among the masses, not everyone truly thinks the same thoughts, regardless of how homogeneous things may seem sometimes. |
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victorwootenfan
Alien Abductee
USA
2128 Posts |
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GRock
Try A Little Harder
93 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2003 : 5:29:04 PM
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i don't know the details. and thank God, i am not God. so i really don't like to speculate about these things. i do know Jesus said "I am THE way, and THE truth and THE life. No one comes to the Father, except through me.(John 14:6)" if we believe Christ when he said that He is God then we come to this verse and He makes it pretty clear about how to get to God.
I too have heard what mr. victorwootenfan has expressed but that is only speculation. it is a guess that may very well be true and i hold that as a possibility. i do know, without a doubt, that those who have heard of christ and have been "introduced" but then reject Him will not go to heaven but hell. Only God knows people's hearts and only He will know whether someone has put their faith in His Son.
you don't have to fully understand something to accept it and know that it works. i have no clue how this computer works but i accept that it is true and that it does exist and that it does work. i put my faith in it even though i don't understand it. surely there are lots of things you all put your faith in but do not understand how they work. cars, TV's, sports (for the ladies j/k) etc. like the tax code. i know the part that applies to me and some of what applies to corporations and businesses, and nothing about other parts of it. so i am not expecting to ever fully understand everything about salvation before i accept it.
the reason even the most righteous might still go to hell without Jesus is because as paul said in Romans 3:23 "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" and the prophet isiah said in a revelation of God that "all our righteous acts are like filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6)". no matter how "good" we are, we are not perfect. that is why i don't believe there are "truly good people" of any religion. even christians aren't good. we are humble enough to accept the Gift of heaven. instead of demanding it for having done our best to be "good". so if no one is perfect and being as God, by definition, is perfect, He can not have imperfection with him in heaven. so hHe gave us a way by washing our imperfections away and paying the price withe the life of His Son.
let me also say that it is perfectly fine to dislike a particular church and still love and trust Jesus. i don't understand all the stuff that goes on at a Catholic mass. and i really don't like the church where my mom brought me up. it turned me off of the religion but that set me up for the freedom i found in the relationship with christ. i go to a different church now, but christ is more important than any individual church could ever be.
i feel like i am running away with this post so keep those thoughts and opinions coming. i asked if anyone believed in absolutes. i, of course, do. and i guess that gives me a firmer place to be challenged from. i just want to see some more things that i can question and ponder over here. are people (in general) kinda more fluid in their beliefs? either way, i'd love to debate some of you all's beliefs too. |
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tericee
Alien Abductee
USA
2579 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2003 : 11:07:06 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Silky The Pimp
Hmm... that makes it sounds like the point of religion is much more to accept Jesus than to live a worthy life. I personally find that to be a hard pill to swallow.
I think the two go hand in hand, and there are New Testament passages that suggest the same.
Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not of works, so that no one can boast. For we are his workmanship, having been created in Christ Jesus for good works that God prepared beforehand so we may do them.
James 2:14-18 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but does not have works? Can this kind of faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacks daily food, and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, keep warm and eat well," but you do not give them what the body needs, what good is it? So also faith, if it does not have works, is dead being by itself. But someone will say, "You have faith and I have works." Show me your faith without works and I will show faith by my works.
Once one has acted on faith and accepted the gift of salvation, one should feel a need to start/continue living a worthy life -- just realize that it's not the works that have bought salvation, but the faith.
Note: I keep noticing the interchangable use of the words religion and faith. GRock has said in previous posts that to him it's about faith, not religion. I totally agree. I once heard somebody say that religion is all about man reaching out to God, but the life of Christ is all about God reaching out to man. I'd rather have somebody call me faithful than religious! |
teri 
Twittering about the DC adventure since Dec '09...
(Micro)Blog * Photo Album
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GRock
Try A Little Harder
93 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2003 : 09:16:54 AM
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tericee=smart
couldn't have said it better myself |
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X
Is Anybody Here?
Germany
10 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2003 : 10:46:25 AM
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| agnostic. i have faith that there is some sort of higher power out there, but i don't proclaim it boldly as if i have any proof. |
"the face and ghost my guide
i must move on
it's the face of one ravaged by love
it's both dead and alive"
-the children's song, LIVE.
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victorwootenfan
Alien Abductee
USA
2128 Posts |
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X
Is Anybody Here?
Germany
10 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2003 : 11:45:50 AM
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| thank you, but technically i'm pagan as well. |
"the face and ghost my guide
i must move on
it's the face of one ravaged by love
it's both dead and alive"
-the children's song, LIVE.
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victorwootenfan
Alien Abductee
USA
2128 Posts |
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GRock
Try A Little Harder
93 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2003 : 1:48:33 PM
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What does paganism really even entail. Is it a defined set of beliefs or a general earth based outlook or what. I'm just wondering about the specifics so you don't have to get into too much detail.
Where does the pagan believe we came from? Where do we go when we die? Why are we here? Stuff like that. |
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victorwootenfan
Alien Abductee
USA
2128 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2003 : 10:22:08 PM
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| Well for starters you could ask 5 pagans the same questions and get different answers from all of them. some or more influenced from the native amercian traditions, some the celtic, some of whatever visions they've gotten. The great thing about paganism is there's no dogma of "it happened exactly like this..." I think personally that we came from god, and that when we die we are reincarnated until we reach a level of spiritual "oneness"(i guess you could call it) and then go to summerland(equal to heaven, or nirvana) but it's different for lots of different pagans, "many paths to the same location kind of." |
www.myspace.com/smileymnbass
http://itunes.apple.com/us/preorder/quartet-art/id423870767
www.mattsmiley.blogpost.com |
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X
Is Anybody Here?
Germany
10 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2003 : 11:34:46 AM
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| the most complete definition of paganism is "any sort of religious belief other than christianity". even atheists and agnostics fit into this category. |
"the face and ghost my guide
i must move on
it's the face of one ravaged by love
it's both dead and alive"
-the children's song, LIVE.
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GRock
Try A Little Harder
93 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2003 : 11:52:54 AM
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well they can't all be right?!? i mean 2+2=4. always all the time. and water is always wet. some things are always true. so in paganism does everyone think they are right? i know what i believe is the absolute truth but i am still interested in knowing what others think and i don't want any of this to come off as an attack on anyone. just know that.
in paganism the beliefs would have to be pretty loosely held if there is nothing except yourself to fall back on for those beliefs. so how can you know you are right? if it feels right? i am really puzzled by this. How do we decide what is "right". If everyone out there thought that murder was right, surely that in and of itself wouldn't make murder any little bit "right". and if a person individually thought that murder was right for himself, well that wouldn't make it right for him or anyone else either?
I'm just looking for a footing in paganistic beliefs and i don't even know where one should/could start to believe any peice of paganism.
if you could just explain the "all roads lead to the same place" thing a bit more, that'd help me understand more of what you think. I guess what i don't get is how basically what you say is that if i leave St. Louis headed for New York and you leave St. Louis headed for Los Angeles, we both end up at the truth. But How can we both end up at the same place? and if Los Angeles is the truth wouldn't it make sense to tell me about it and inform me i am going the wrong way? and not just sit back and let me head off to my own demise? |
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victorwootenfan
Alien Abductee
USA
2128 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2003 : 12:09:08 PM
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my definition of paginism is simply believing all the gods
are one god, and all the goddess one goddess. There are no
gods or goddesses that are higher than each other, they are
all on the same level, and all the same supreme god. So in
my saying "many paths to the same location," it's kinda like
christianity, hinduism, judaism, islam, all leads to the same
end eventually, a blissful afterlife. There are disagreements
here and there, but it's still the worship of god(s), and still
a good afterlife. I personally don't believe in hell, i think
being reborn again on earth is the closest thing to that(and it's
not that close at all either). On earth we learn, we grow
mentally, physically, and most importantly spiritually. Atheists
and agnostics don't "burn in hell," they just are reborn until
they reach a higher level of understanding, or whatnot. I hope
that
helped explain myself a little better. |
www.myspace.com/smileymnbass
http://itunes.apple.com/us/preorder/quartet-art/id423870767
www.mattsmiley.blogpost.com |
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GRock
Try A Little Harder
93 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2003 : 2:09:28 PM
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I find reincarnation very very hard to believe but i am willing to pretend like it could happen for the sake of discussion. So how do we finally stop being reincarnated and go onto this afterlife. and where do all the "extra" souls come from cuz the population seems to be increasing so they have to be coming from somewhere. which "god" made all of this. where do we come from? I am kinda excited to have someone to explain and answer some of my questions about other religions. I tend to get a lot of people who sink away from real challenges to what they believe.
with no hell, if the world were to be destroyed would we all be "born" somewhere else. or go straight to "blissful afterlife". and how is it blissful. maybe it is metaphysically impossible for the world to be destroyed. whichever "god" made all this won't allow it or made it so it couldn't be destroyed. are we with "all the gods" in this blissful place. surely some of the gods aren't real and are just made up so do we know which ones are false gods. are there any false gods. maybe not?
i don't think there is a real "hell" with fire and stuff like that. it's more of just a place without love. without goodness. without the one true God. so yeah i agree with you (while for a different reason) on that one for sure. word.
but i can't say that atheist aren't going there. atheism has to be the most ignorant of all religious beliefs. to boldly proclaim that in all the worl and universe and everything there is that there is no possible way there could be a god is highly suspect. who has searched every corner of every universe. who has this vast knowledge to know there is no god. only god does. so an atheist is basically saying he believes himself to be god. and maybe they don't see any evidence of god but that is a huge step away from declaring that there is no god. an agnostic i have a lot of respect for. they admit they do not know. but an atheist looks truth in the face and says he can't see it. i hope i don't upset any atheists out there but i'd like to hear from them on this issue. |
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victorwootenfan
Alien Abductee
USA
2128 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2003 : 5:32:52 PM
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| well the "god" i'm referring to is the one and the same god that you worship. call him jesus, call him allah, whatever, it's all the same to me. And as to the scientific or mathematical paradoxes that you pointed out, i believe reincarnation by faith, and not by looking up numbers and checking them out, etc... it's just what i believe and i leave it at that. i guess you could say the extra souls, are souls that are born for the first time. |
www.myspace.com/smileymnbass
http://itunes.apple.com/us/preorder/quartet-art/id423870767
www.mattsmiley.blogpost.com |
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tericee
Alien Abductee
USA
2579 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2003 : 5:53:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by GRock
I'm just looking for a footing in paganistic beliefs and i don't even know where one should/could start to believe any peice of paganism.
The American Heritage® Dictionary says...
NOUN: 1. One who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew, especially a worshiper of a polytheistic religion. 2. One who has no religion. 3. A non-Christian. 4. A hedonist. 5. A Neo-Pagan.
ETYMOLOGY: Middle English, from Late Latin pgnus, from Latin, country-dweller, civilian, from pgus, country, rural district.
Pagan properly means “belonging to a village” (Latin, pagus). The Christian Church fixed itself first in cities, the centres of intelligence. Long after it had been established in towns, idolatrous practices continued to be observed in rural districts and villages, so pagan and villager came to mean the same thing.
(Dictionary of Phrase and Fable. 1898.)
From this information, I think it is safe to say that Pagan has no more define belief system than mono-theism. I think GRock and I have defined our own beliefs more specifically (if that's the right word)than VWF or X.
Other information that I found in cyberspace shows that "factions" of Pagan include Wiccan, Shamanic, Goddess, Druidic, and Celtic Mystic. You would probably have to delve deeper into the beliefs of each specific group of Pagans to get the answer to your questions, GRock. Similarly, a person who asked what mono-theists believe would have to go one step further to Christianity, Judaism, or Islam, to find answers. (Although I did find websites that claims to have some answers at http://www.circlesanctuary.org/aboutpagan/aboutpagan.html and http://www.cuups.org/content/resources/re/brief1.html)
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teri
Twittering about the DC adventure since Dec '09...
(Micro)Blog * Photo Album
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GRock
Try A Little Harder
93 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2003 : 10:17:51 AM
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thanks tericee. i wasn't expecting the best answer (and all of them were informative) to my question to come from you. you are pretty well read. and thanks for including a link too. i'll do some reading about some of this stuff.
and tericee brought up a curious point. i am curious if VWF or X, if you both have very defined religious views. maybe that is my fault in the wording of my questions. before i started to really delve into the bible and pray i had pretty much never even thought about religious stuff at all. so i know it is possible to be pretty loose about what one might believe, and to withhold judgement (see agnostic) about many things.
i just see a lot of inconsistencys in these other belief systems. and way more than would be brought up in a discusion of the Bible. i have never found a paradox type thing in the bible that a little further reading and understanding couldn't clear up. i just don't see this in other systems. Do we think it is OK to have incosistencys in a religion? if it is a different belief system maybe it is OK.
and i still don't understand how all the roads can lead to the same place. Jesus said he is the one and only way. so either he IS the only way or he is the only wrong way. you know what i am saying. and if more than one way is right i just don't see how some of the more crazy far out mindsets could possibly be right. take devil worship and the pursuit of evil. how can that path lead to the same place as Jesus and the pursuit of good?
these are just some questions that i have to think about. that i just can't ignore. |
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victorwootenfan
Alien Abductee
USA
2128 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2003 : 9:48:21 PM
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i'm gonna try to reply to grock here. I personally have very defined beliefs yes. The inconsistincies(sp?) that you point out i think are due to men writting religious texts, and putting some of their own opinions into the mix. That and translations here and there tend to screw things up a bit.
You mentioned devil worship as an example. To me that is just plain ignorance, pure and simple and focusing an entire life to evil just(to me) means bad karma and rebirth into life again to "try it again."
More information on neo-paganism and wicca can be found at http://www.wicca.com/celtic/cc002.htm it's a pretty good informative website. Some pagan/wiccan authors have some inconsincies(sp?) like the spelling of names, or how certain lore goes, but they're minor things in themselves. i hope this helped some, if you have any other questions i'll be checking back when i get the time. |
www.myspace.com/smileymnbass
http://itunes.apple.com/us/preorder/quartet-art/id423870767
www.mattsmiley.blogpost.com |
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pcbTIM
Alien Abductee
USA
6501 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2003 : 12:41:16 AM
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| I think I understand what VWF is trying to say. Have any of you ever played Final Fantasy VII? The basic belief in the game is that everything on the entire planet is a single entity. When something dies, it goes to the Life Stream, the "blood" of the planet. And the modern man is sucking this stuff up for energy. So essentially, sucking up Life Stream is killing the planet. Anyway, anything born comes from the Life Stream, and anything that dies returns there. Although there is no mention of a Higher Being, it seems that everything on the planet is present to simply co-exist and help each other out. I don't know if I believe in that type of stuff, but it seemes pretty interesting. D'oh well.......I'm done talkin'. |
Gay marriage killed the dinosaurs. |
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GRock
Try A Little Harder
93 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2003 : 10:07:19 AM
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for a second there pcbTIM, i thought for sure you were going to tell me you get your entire belief system from a video game. whoa. that was a close one. like the people who believe in "the Force". you'd think they realize that someone just made that junk up.
i never realized that the internet is a haven for pagan propaganda (and no i don't mean that disrespectfully) there is a wealth of info out there that i never realized. it doesn't make much sense to me (as i've said before) but it is there for amuzement and education. thanks to you both for directing my search there.
i can see how, in a religion built on lore and word of mouth (wiccan, indian, pagan in general) there can be a lot lost in the translations and what is added to the mix by humans and their selfish ways. but that just makes the bible look more reliable. even though it is translated and things don't seem to match up the inconsistencys are always just in the readers head and the interpretation. from one book to another book (and consequently different authors) in the bible it still all matches up. and dates back as like the oldest complete literature (old testament) more complete than beowulf. and there is more historical proof (documents outside the bible as well) that jesus existed as we read about Him in the bible than there is that ceasar lived at all. (and i can look up my source on this later if anybody is intersted)
i still don't see a lot of my questions addressed in paganism and it is perfectly OK if there are not answers to my questions. and maybe the answers that are satisfactory to you just aren't for me. i need more proof. i'm not quick to believe something or take it word of mouth. i gotta see it (i'm from missouri, the "SHOW-ME" state). and even though God is all powerful, i'm not sure if He can make a rock so big He can't move it. or if the world was made in 7 days or 7 eras. you know, so, we all have some questions we can't answer.
but a few straight forward questions i still have are:
Where does all this come from if not from God? and don't say evolution. evolution is a 1 in 10^7017 chance possibility. and it hasn't always existed cuz i mean the big bang and all. all the proof just seems like it's got to come from God.
Where do we all go when we are done reincarnating? This "blissful place"? what is that. Speculation or do we know what/where it is?
and who/what decides when we are done reincarnating?
like with devil worship (and at least we can agree that that is wrong), are you telling me that even the wrong way is the right way, cuz you just get reincarnated? why should we want to do good if we're just gonna get another chance when we screw up. why should we "seize the day"?
if there is no hell, what would happen if the world ended? nothing?
why are we moral? why does every culture punish murder? people do a lot of greedy bad things but how do we always know that these things are wrong?
thanks a lot for putting up with me and these questions i've had. |
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Saint Jude
Alien Abductee
USA
2144 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2003 : 12:22:16 PM
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PcbTIM said quote:
Final Fantasy VII
best damn game ever.
Grock said quote:
like the people who believe in "the Force". you'd think they realize that someone just made that junk up.
the star wars movies (the good ones the original three) were actualy very hevily based in religion and mythology.
Grock said quote:
if there is no hell, what would happen if the world ended? nothing?
Are you implying that if the world ends everyone goes to hell.
quote:
why are we moral? why does every culture punish murder? people do a lot of greedy bad things but how do we always know that these things are wrong?
Morals are different from each society to another. "Morals" are created after the group of people decide what is important to them. In some societies its immorral to sleep w/ your cousin, but go down south to that society, and they have different morals. There is no one standard of morals for the world. And the reason that every culture punishes murder is becuase life is sacred. We only get one, (with this conciousness if we are reencarnated). If u really believe that the only reason people dont steel, murder, ect, is because of the bible then i would have to say that that is a ignorant thought. The native americans never had the bible before the europeans came over, and they had a very structured moral system. I think that you were just playing devils advocate a bit, to try to make vwf defend himself, but i had to put in my little bit of thought into it. |
Remember, turn off your tv. Read. |
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Bustoff
Chatterbox
145 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2003 : 12:40:17 PM
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quote:
If u really believe that the only reason people dont steel, murder, ect, is because of the bible then i would have to say that that is a ignorant thought.
Think of it this way:
Maybe the reason why people don't steal, murder, ect, is because God designed us with inherent moral feelings against these things, as well as inspiring these feelings in the Bible. This would explain why people follow this creed without even reading the Bible. |
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GRock
Try A Little Harder
93 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2003 : 3:08:02 PM
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quote:
Maybe the reason why people don't steal, murder, ect, is because God designed us with inherent moral feelings against these things
right on bustoff. that was exactly my point of asking that question. i think God made us in His image. but if not, then where do we get our morals?
quote:
the star wars movies (the good ones the original three) were actualy very hevily based in religion and mythology.
exactly right. they are based on religion. but jedi and all that is just made up by some guy.
quote:
Are you implying that if the world ends everyone goes to hell.
earlier someone said that we all reincarnate until we reach a "blissful place" and that there is no hell. but what if the "ring of reincarnation" just ended? what then?
anyway i look forward to some more responses to my earlier questions. word. |
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pcbTIM
Alien Abductee
USA
6501 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2003 : 7:59:59 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by GRock
for a second there pcbTIM, i thought for sure you were going to tell me you get your entire belief system from a video game. whoa. that was a close one. like the people who believe in "the Force". you'd think they realize that someone just made that junk up.
Haha! Nope. I just found it really interesting. Although in the game, it was more of a science because everything was proven (not very hard since you can make up whatever you want in a video game). I'm more of a "Fallen" Catholic. I still believe in God, but I don't go to church. I'm sure you've run into this before.
quote:
quote:
PcbTIM said
quote:
Final Fantasy VII
best damn game ever.
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Gay marriage killed the dinosaurs. |
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pcbTIM
Alien Abductee
USA
6501 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2003 : 8:04:03 PM
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| What the hell? I've logged in at least three TIMes, and I'm still not logged in. This is really wierd. |
Gay marriage killed the dinosaurs. |
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victorwootenfan
Alien Abductee
USA
2128 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2003 : 9:12:41 PM
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I'm going to try to help comment some more for ya grock, cause this is getting interesting with more debate in and out. First off let me say that i totally believe that jesus was a real person, and i really do like everything he said and did on earth. son of god on the other hand i don't buy, but that's jsut me. Beatitudes are one of the best religious texts i've heard.
on to your questions... What i think of evolution is that it happened, but through the god(s). I don't see why god can use his ways through human explained science, makes sense to me.
After reincarnation you go to "summerland" which is the christian equivalent to heaven if you will. With devil worship it isn't the right way, but you don't burn in hell for an eternity cause of a bad decision, that's just dumb. In my beliefs it is the gods that decide whether you incarnate or not, by what state your soul is in after you die(something along those lines)
Seize the day is just good advice in any case, whether you get another chance on earth or not. with reincarnation you don't remember your past lives, so you're living every life like it's your first(or last). If the world ended now i don't see why we all couldn't go to a happy afterlife in heaven and not burn in hell for unforgiven sins...
Ah well, that's a start at answering your questions... |
www.myspace.com/smileymnbass
http://itunes.apple.com/us/preorder/quartet-art/id423870767
www.mattsmiley.blogpost.com |
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GRock
Try A Little Harder
93 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2003 : 10:22:12 AM
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i'm gonna have to reply. i want so bad to sit back and wait for more replies but i just can't do it. and yes it's cuz this is too interesting
So quote:
First off let me say that i totally believe that jesus was a real person, and i really do like everything he said and did on earth. son of god on the other hand i don't buy, but that's jsut me. Beatitudes are one of the best religious texts i've heard.
How can you trust all the things jesus said and say he was a good person and moral eacher and that you like what he said, when he said he is the son of God. HE SAID IT! so did he just make one little lie?
and i know that no matter how many times i ask for people to show me some proff of evolution or even evidence that i will never get it. it doesn't exist. at least not to my knowledge. and if anyone has any irrefutable evidence please share it with me. evolution has been all but disproven in the scientific community and is only still held because it is the best answer to creationism.
vwf said quote:
In my beliefs it is the gods that decide whether you incarnate or not, by what state your soul is in after you die(something along those lines)
i completely aggree. we are finding a lot of common ground. God (singular) decides whether we go to heaven to spend eternity with Him based on whether we have accepted His Son as a saviour from our selfish ways. this is the eternal question, the eternal state of our soul. do you admit your ways are wrong? will you be humble? (i think the beattitudes mention humility a couple times, huh?)
i don't really believe in a hell either. Hell is simply not being with God. not having the Love of God because "God is Love". there is some theories that maybe hell is just nothingness. could be. of course it could be a place where everybody gang rapes eachother and has to watch sitcoms all the time and where there is just no good. but yeah definately not just a bunch of fire.
then vmf said quote:
If the world ended now i don't see why we all couldn't go to a happy afterlife in heaven and not burn in hell for unforgiven sins...
God by definition is Holy. and Holiness can not be with evil (or selfish like us) they just don't mix. like water and oil. this saddened God so much that he sacrificed His Son so that we could be with Him. Jesus's sacrifice covers over and takes the penalty for our sin and allows us to go with God. if God were water and we were greasy oil spots, Jesus is like the soap that allows us to be with God. (and yes i am equally amazed that i thought up an analogy like that) |
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victorwootenfan
Alien Abductee
USA
2128 Posts |
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GRock
Try A Little Harder
93 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2003 : 10:45:19 AM
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| me too |
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joojoo
Is Anybody Here?
USA
46 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2003 : 7:37:07 PM
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Maybe this thread died a while ago... I'm not really sure. But since someone asked, I thought I'd throw my 2 cents in.
I was born and raised Southern Baptist, though half-jewish on my father's side (He and his family are Conservative Jews), so I've had a lot of exposure to that end of things. I grew up in church pretty much, never missed a Sunday or a Vacation Bible School (Loved the wafer cookies and kool-aid; y'all know what I'm talking about... ;)), And considered myself very close to God in his three persons, had a salvation experience, was baptized, the whole nine. LOL, I still even have the bible drill ribbons at home actually.
In High-school my spiritual desire grew, not shrunk. Going to Church twice a week and volunteering just weren't doing it for me. I needed to give more, to get more. I had a lot of Charismatic Christian friends; I went to service once with one of them at their Assembly of God church, and it was awesome! I felt something I never had before. The speaking in tongues and "holy rolling" and all that had scared me before, but now it seemed perfect. My relationship with God didn't change, but the way I expressed myself in worship had.
I left my high school to go across state to a math and science school, living in dorms and stuff... (think dead poets society, minus the uniforms). Here I was away from home really for the first time, and I still was spiritually very thirsty. I was going to church every Sunday and Wednesday... But the new congregation left a lot to be desired. I never quite felt at home there like I did at my old church where I grew up. I started looking elsewhere spiritually, slowly but surely.
This is a very abbreviated way to put it. that last sentence took about a year and a half to really see itself through. Lots of bad stuff going on at home, being away, a bad congregation, it all sort of started to snowball. I started flirting with music (here I am btw, an intermediate level guitarist), as well as Eastern Philosophy. I read lots of transcendentalist literature, mainly Emerson, then Whitman.
The stuff made sense. I was still praying, still worshiping, I just felt like I wasn't being heard anymore. The hypocrites at church were looking down on me when I knew I had ten times more "religion" (memorized scripture, witnessing experience) than any of them. (I thought this was interesting, btw. They saw me as a strong person that actually believed what he said, so when I started leaving, this hurt them, so they started attacking me. Group-think mentality sickens me) Emerson's pantheism started looking very attractive. I started thinking about it, and actually doing some meditation, nature celebration, that kind of thing, and it's jibing with me very well. When I think of the Universe, the night sky, or even a dandelion growing outside under a rock, I'm filled with every religious emotion imaginable.
So there you have it. I'm still in the middle of my metamorphosis, but for the first time in a long time, I feel really happy. Really.
BTW: This is about a millionth of the story; I don't in any way feel that I've relayed it well enough. |
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joojoo
Is Anybody Here?
USA
46 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2003 : 7:43:48 PM
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| Oh yeah, btw, I have been reading the DUNE series as of late. These books are incredible. A wonderful metaphysical commentary on human nature, civilization, government, and religion, relayed through a wonderful epic of a story. READ IT!! ;) |
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joojoo
Is Anybody Here?
USA
46 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2003 : 04:03:00 AM
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Btw: last post, I promise. ;)
books I'm digging right now:
Bhagavad-Gita
Gospel of Thomas
Confucius' Analects
Tao Te Ching
Emerson's Nature
Whitman's Leaves of Grass
No offense whatsoever to any Buddhists in the forum, but I tried the Dhammapada, and I'm just tired of thinking repressive things like that my body is nothing but a sack of sinful fluids holding a soul, that my desires are bad, that I am not an individual, just a projection of the universe, etc... If I've misinterpreted any of the Dhammapada, please enlighten me.
Also, maybe off topic, but definitely related: Noam Chomsky. Tim would be proud, aye? But seriously, he appeals to my libertarian leanings. It's kind of like extremist libertarian utopia and therefore very fun to think about (even though this description is a huge disservice to Noam).
Ciao. |
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tericee
Alien Abductee
USA
2579 Posts |
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victorwootenfan
Alien Abductee
USA
2128 Posts |
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Topic |
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religion
