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rubylith
Fluffy-Esque
1915 Posts |
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PJK
Alien Abductee
USA
4159 Posts |
 Posted - 01/24/2008 : 6:42:56 PM
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That's sad. It wasn't the lack of participation in the debates that was his downfall,(although that wasn't fair at all)but more likely a bad campaign manager. I thought from the get go he didn't stand a chance, his approach was weak. By that I mean his campaign, he was never taken seriously. He has tremendous potential to lead, but unfortunately he doesn't play the game well. His approach was flawed and if you want to win that type of race you have to know how to run.
There are ways to run an effective campaign and his didn't do him justice.
My man has always been Obama, even before he officially declared he was running. He is a strong man politically, but he is taking a beating from Hillary and Bill. I love the way she always talks about experience, yet her husband was far less experienced than Obama when he ran for president. And she seems to forget her own business mishaps in realestate.
Backing Ron Paul is like leaving a 2 cent tip at a restaurant, makes a statement, that's all. Like Dennis, he doesn't have any real chance of getting elected. |
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rubylith
Fluffy-Esque
1915 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2008 : 7:40:11 PM
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The problem with Obama and the other candidates is that they are CFR members. Obama wants Zbigniew Brzezinski(a truly evil mastermind) of the CFR to be his foreign policy advisor.
Obama may not be as terrible as every other candidate running, but his ties to Israel and the CRF takes him out of my choices.
But that's just me.  |
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PJK
Alien Abductee
USA
4159 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2008 : 9:24:48 PM
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Hey Dave, can you give me some references as to where you are getting your information on Barak? Just curious, not trying to be confrontational, trying to be educated. Did you see my post about how both quizes I took on who my candidate should be came up for Dennis? And now he is out of the race. |
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Arthen
Alien Abductee
USA
4845 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2008 : 12:23:31 AM
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| I think it's really interesting to compare the campaigns of Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich and how similar they are in terms of their candidacy but how differently their campaigns were. Lots of parallels, but lots of differences. I think that Ron Paul resonates with more people individually and he's managed to get more exposure. |
Steve Hackett: "I'm my own opening act, you see."
Tim (before "Faceoff"): "Peace, love....and SEX!"
cbenc41@hotmail.com |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2008 : 12:33:21 AM
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Well considering Americans hatred of taxes it's pretty easy to be popular when you say something like I'm going to stop income tax and all that.
Obama is not even an option for me. Edwards is the closest thing to a liberal running now. However I will probably throw my vote away on a third party candidate or something because I can't in good conscience vote for Obama or hillary or any republican. I doubt Kucinich endorses paul. They agree basically about one thing. End the war. |
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Jay
Alien Abductee
Vatican City
2279 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2008 : 02:23:56 AM
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| I try to stay out of political conversation, but the hell with it anyway. As a native Clevelander (that's what we are calling ourselves) I can tell you that anyone who has been alive long enough to remember Kucinich as Mayor doesn't like the man at all... |
"Hey man...you smell..."
"Oh yeah?"
"yeah...like dinner..." |
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Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2008 : 11:10:27 AM
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| Yea, that's why I couldn't get behind Paul. Would I love to see him elected over everyone else in the field? Definitely, but Dennis was my man. |
http://db.etree.org/hopefulrollingwaves/ < My Trading List |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2008 : 3:50:51 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jay
I try to stay out of political conversation, but the hell with it anyway. As a native Clevelander (that's what we are calling ourselves) I can tell you that anyone who has been alive long enough to remember Kucinich as Mayor doesn't like the man at all...
I don't know as much about his mayor period, but considering public opinion is usually backwards and wrong I'm not so sure that's a bad thing.
Pam, I really don't know how you can really support Obama cause it seems like from past conversations you've been pretty anti-war and anti military buildup. Obama wants to build up the military and he says we must not rule out using military force in pursuit of our vital interests. I see how with Kucinich gone it's kind of pick your poison now but I don't know about actual support. I guess I'd like to just hear a little on why you support him. |
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PJK
Alien Abductee
USA
4159 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2008 : 6:31:49 PM
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Pam, I really don't know how you can really support Obama cause it seems like from past conversations you've been pretty anti-war and anti military buildup. Obama wants to build up the military and he says we must not rule out using military force in pursuit of our vital interests. I see how with Kucinich gone it's kind of pick your poison now but I don't know about actual support. I guess I'd like to just hear a little on why you support him.
Well Zack I AM for building up the military, but don't confuse that with continuing our fight in Iraq, or for how I feel about war in general. I think our military is not large enough to handle multiple crises in the world or give adequate protection here at home. Afghan is now the new hot bed. I think it was totally justified for us to go into Afghanistan after 9-11. What I NEVER supported, and even protested, was our invasion of Iraq. Building up the military also means having better equipment. Some of the equipment our troops use is ridiculously inadequate.
People seem to forget the lies that got us there, and then the changing of the "mission" to suit the current administration's needs.
The public, of which we are all a part of, is as fickle as ever! Now everyone is focused on our rotten economy. Bush is hoping to spur the economy with his band-aid fix of rebate checks. Can you say STUPID?????? I am not a financial expert, but I have been listening to those who are and they all said this will not solve our economic problems.
Somehow no one is caring about getting out of Iraq now and I don't understand why. Many are buying into "the surge is working" idea, but that simply is not the real picture. You put massive forces in any urban setting and the fighting will lessen, but how long are you willing to keep those forces, in those amounts, there? And where do people think the insurgents have gone? They have logistics on their side. They know the US won't stay there forever. The inevitable can only be put off for so long. I still believe we need to pull out and let the chaos that happens work itself out. I see no other solution.
I for one am tired of losing our military men and women in Iraq.
The way I understand our constitution, we are to step in and support democracies who are threatened, not go into countries and create democracies.
War, IMO, should always be the LAST RESORT. But war is not the only reason to have a strong military. We need more than "a few good men." So yes, I am all for building up our military, but totally against being the aggressor. I feel that is also Baraks position. Check this out.
http://obama.senate.gov/issues/defense/index.html |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2008 : 01:26:06 AM
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Ok well then that clears that up. I don't really agree but I'm going to leave it at that for now.
One thing though. I don't think the constitution has anything in it about aiding democracy or anything like that in it. Mostly from what I've read the writers suggested staying out of foreign entanglements and such. However I don't believe the constitution states anything about it one way or the other. |
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Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
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PJK
Alien Abductee
USA
4159 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2008 : 11:36:38 AM
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Sorry, calling bullshit, Pam. Obama on Iran. He's as bad as the rest.
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I don't really agree but I'm going to leave it at that for now.
Hey no problem disagreeing, as far as I know, no one made me God, so I can be wrong.
It's OK to think something I say is bullshit....as for Barak and Iraq, I don't think he is bullshit, but that's OK too.
What isn't OK is when people don't form their own opinions. |
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Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
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PJK
Alien Abductee
USA
4159 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2008 : 3:04:10 PM
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Iran, not Iraq. And yes, his stance on IRAN is bullshit.
Bullshit I understand, but the word "stance" tells me nothing. Do you mean the Joint Resolution #23, or the Divestment Legislation, or what????
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Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2008 : 11:37:56 PM
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I just mean it's pretty obvious what side of his bread is buttered.
The side that still believes in imperialism.
He's a Lieberman crony...what a surprise! |
http://db.etree.org/hopefulrollingwaves/ < My Trading List |
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PJK
Alien Abductee
USA
4159 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2008 : 06:48:54 AM
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quote:
I just mean it's pretty obvious what side of his bread is buttered.
The side that still believes in imperialism.
He's a Lieberman crony...what a surprise!
LOL, Now that is bullshit!!!! You sound like the typical guy on the street, and I know you aren't, but all you said were a lot of empty words. Opinion without support is, well, just bullshit! I think this conversation is over.....new topic. |
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Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2008 : 10:58:48 AM
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Alright, we'll agree to disagree then.
Though I am not sure who gives you carte blanche to end topics, also, you haven't provided any evidence that Mr. Obama doesn't harbor typical, politically unfounded agression towards Iran.
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From an article in the Chicago Sun Times:
"Sen. Barack Obama said Friday the use of military force should not be taken off the table when dealing with Iran, which he called "a threat to all of us."
Speaking before a pro-Israel crowd at a downtown hotel, Obama also repeated his call for a phased pullout of U.S. troops from Iraq and strongly backed a strong U.S. relationship with Israel.
Obama said global leaders must do whatever it takes to stop Iran from enriching uranium and acquiring nuclear weapons. He called Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad "reckless, irresponsible and inattentive" to the day-to-day needs of the Iranian people.
The Iranian "regime is a threat to all of us," Obama said.
While Obama wouldn't rule out force, he said the United States should engage in "aggressive diplomacy combined with tough sanctions" to prevent Iran from becoming a nuclear threat."
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More poignantly, however, is this article:
http://www.antiwar.com/frank/?articleid=4521
My point here is that there is a formula: strong military ties with Israel (a well-known offender of human rights violations) + tough, highly hypocritical talk about Iran + use of implied violence = yet another poor candidate for President.
It was pretty obvious in your anti-Guevara tirade you only like to see the side you are looking at and not much else.
All I am saying is that much as there were 2 sides to Ernesto Guevara, there ARE 2 sides to Barak Obama.
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http://db.etree.org/hopefulrollingwaves/ < My Trading List |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2008 : 2:25:02 PM
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| too late man. didn't you read what pjk wrote? conversation over, new topic. that means you don't know what you're talking about, her opinion is better, and she wins. unless she actually reads what you just posted, but let's be honest. . . |
death to false metal. |
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PJK
Alien Abductee
USA
4159 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2008 : 3:47:27 PM
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I am not going to comment on this anymore because as soon as anyone tries to have any kind of honest exchange of ideas people get all pissy. NO ONE GAVE ME CHART BLANCHE JARED, the only thing I was ever given from this board was from a few members, and what they gave me was friendship. I regularly keep in touch with those few outside of this message board. I am sorry if I came across as anything else, I was simply trying to end this before it got worse.
And for the record, I DID read the link and what you wrote and I try to read things like that with an open mind. But you know, it just isn't worth it to participate in any discussions on this board, so the hell with it, I will stick to only reading/commenting on show related matter. Apparently agreeing to disagree can't happen on here. Ironically, it doesn't matter what I think anyway because Hillary is going to be our next president anyway.
Ever wonder why this board only has a handful of "posters?" It is because of the underlying meanness that radiates from so many threads. Why would anyone want to come here? I am just deciding to end my part in exacerbating this behavior on the board by not commenting further. I am sure dan or you will have some more derogatory comments to make and I really don't care, in fact I won't even know because I don't plan to come back and read any more. |
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Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2008 : 7:19:11 PM
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I don't believe I got 'pissy' at all. I believe my assessment of your posts on Guevara we completely warranted, I am not saying your POV is wrong here, I am saying; however, that not listening to Tim's beautiful song of the same moniker is a bit impetuous and emotionally charged, and I think you can agree with that.
I am sorry Dan's post interrupted our dialogue. Though, I did happen, a few days ago, to read the thread where you two exchanged a bit of vitriol, so I can understand both of your frustrations, to be honest.
I would, however, appreciate a valid response to my 'above street-level educated' remarks. I did take the time out of my life, as you have, to invest time and energy into this dialogue; and would like to hear your understanding of Mr. Obama's 'stance on Iran' (which I define as: generally agressive, and I think, thank you, that this is a fair assessment in light of the material I have presented.).
If you read those pertinent items, I am SURE you formed an opinion. That's all I'd like to hear. |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2008 : 2:25:33 PM
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i'll get the fuck out of this thread after this post. hrw isn't being pissy. i am.
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I am not going to comment on this anymore because as soon as anyone tries to have any kind of honest exchange of ideas people get all pissy declare the topic over.
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I was simply trying to end this before it got worse.
fixed. read the thread history, please. you called hrw's opinion bullshit and then declared the topic over. no one had done anything offensive prior. if anyone got pissy then it's your fault for doing something that obnoxious. you also have a history of being dismissive of other people's opinions on here, just like i have a history of being an unmitigated dick. why is that? do you feel whatever life experience you have elevates your opinion above some else's? that you're somehow smarter than people you've never met?
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Apparently agreeing to disagree can't happen on here.
no one is saying you guys can't agree to disagree. hrw just wants a fucking discussion about obama's stance on iran. but you're not going deign to do that. in fact, you and i have contributed equal amounts to that discussion. that is to say, none.
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I won't even know because I don't plan to come back and read any more.
i called it! the failsafe of people who are full of shit. |
death to false metal. |
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Kucinich Drops Out of Race, May Endorse Ron Paul!
