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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
 Posted - 05/31/2005 : 12:14:41 PM
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we've had this argument before. it's the one where i say "being high doesn't make the music better, and it doesn't make you listen better and notice things people who aren't high don't notice. it makes you think more about yourself and think more about how the music effects you." then you say "shut up because you've never been high so you don't even know." now that i've saved everyone the trouble of going through that conversation again, i'd like to add that it seems to me that if you "need" to be high to really "understand it/get it" or whatever, that is a weakness in the songwriting, and not anything remarkable. if the song's so good, how come it relies on a drug to let the listener enjoy it?
of course, you could compare it to 3d movies requiring special glasses. are these movies not good because they rely on the glasses? my answer: yes. when was the last time you saw a really good 3d movie. i know i've never seen one. because the focus is on it beign 3d and not, you know, anything that makes a movie good. |
death to false metal. |
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enthuTIMsiast
Alien Abductee
6990 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2005 : 12:15:56 PM
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dan p. not trying to shame you here, but that's the one thing you and I agree on, right there. So yeah... we agree on something.  hope that isn't too embarassing for ya... |
Tim Reynolds Downloads
I am not the albatross of love, I am the human ellipsis. I am dot dot dot. - Leo Kottke
I hate beating people over the head with anything. We can all make up our own minds. What we don’t have is enough music. More music please. - Leo Kottke |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2005 : 12:24:22 PM
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| haha. let's never speak of it again. |
death to false metal. |
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Kenneth
Chatterbox
218 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2005 : 12:56:13 PM
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Well HKG, I’m bound to ramble on. But I just went through that whole experimental phase in college though. So I’ve been there and done that and know what that whole scene is about so I can relate to it. It wasn’t for me though. I’m way too unstable to add drugs to the mix. So instead I made music my addiction. It’s the best thing we have. It’s my drug of choice.
And if you're going to fist yourself then please put it on video.
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enthuTIMsiast
Alien Abductee
6990 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2005 : 1:38:36 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kenneth
And if you're going to fist yourself then please put it on video.
Couldn't agree more. |
Tim Reynolds Downloads
I am not the albatross of love, I am the human ellipsis. I am dot dot dot. - Leo Kottke
I hate beating people over the head with anything. We can all make up our own minds. What we don’t have is enough music. More music please. - Leo Kottke |
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Kenneth
Chatterbox
218 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2005 : 4:20:28 PM
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HKG doesn't have the balls. Well, maybe.
I'm completely out of my element. |
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enthuTIMsiast
Alien Abductee
6990 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2005 : 4:23:40 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kenneth
HKG doesn't have the balls. Well, maybe.
Obviously. We still don't even have pics of this Korean girl's hotness, as far as I know. So I'm sure a fisting video is out of the question.
But props to HKG for even knowing what fisting is. |
Tim Reynolds Downloads
I am not the albatross of love, I am the human ellipsis. I am dot dot dot. - Leo Kottke
I hate beating people over the head with anything. We can all make up our own minds. What we don’t have is enough music. More music please. - Leo Kottke |
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HotKoreanGirl
Chatterbox
130 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2005 : 4:26:17 PM
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You are correct, I literally have no balls. But figurative ones, I do have. When the video is complete, be on the lookout for a posting: "HotKoreanfisting".
If I were better at CGI and compositing, I would make one of Thom Yorke picking his ass and smelling his fingers while he sings, and I stand in the audience, fisting away.
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Kenneth
Chatterbox
218 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2005 : 4:33:43 PM
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Yes, props. But I don't think we'll be seeing any pictures or videos. And if we do, they'll probably be fraudulent.
"picking his ass and smelling his fingers while he sings, and I stand in the audience, fisting away."
Uhhh.... a sphincter says what?
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enthuTIMsiast
Alien Abductee
6990 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2005 : 4:35:35 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by HotKoreanGirl
You are correct, I literally have no balls. But figurative ones, I do have.
I've got big balls
I've got big balls
And they're such big balls
Dirty big balls
And he's got big balls
And she's got big balls
But we've got the biggest balls of them all |
Tim Reynolds Downloads
I am not the albatross of love, I am the human ellipsis. I am dot dot dot. - Leo Kottke
I hate beating people over the head with anything. We can all make up our own minds. What we don’t have is enough music. More music please. - Leo Kottke |
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HotKoreanGirl
Chatterbox
130 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2005 : 4:50:44 PM
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Ye have little faith...you'd think I'd stoop so low as to steal footage from say, "Cocksmokers 5" in order to convince you of my fisting abilities.
On the contrary, I am looking forward to shoving some cyrstal meth up my anus to heighten the sensations, but in order to make it message-board relevant, I must tie it to radiohead...that's where the ass and fingers come in. Does anyone here have extensive experience with Maya or 3dstudio max? My knowledge of those programs is limited, my organic modeling abilities inadequet.
I agree it would be a fun project though, however a hard one.
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Kenneth
Chatterbox
218 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2005 : 5:09:24 PM
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HKG, now you're just being ridiculous. Don't shove meth in your ass. Either snort it or tap a vein.
Obviously I'm kidding. Firing chemicals that some strung out drug dealer concocted in his kitchen is probably not the smartest thing to do. But hey, that's just me.
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chrism
Is Anybody Here?
Canada
45 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2005 : 6:30:45 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by HotKoreanGirl
Does anyone here have extensive experience with Maya or 3dstudio max?
i use 3dstudio, hotkoreanguy. |
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HotKoreanGirl
Chatterbox
130 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2005 : 11:16:31 AM
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oh really, can you do compositing? I need to be able to realistically merge 3d objects with video footage. I'm pretty good at merging 3d models with still photographs..but never did it with video.
I like my music to hit me like an arm full of smack. I get so emotionally invested in it...sometimes no, but most of the time yes. I'm sure others feel this way about music. I feel it is necessary to create something that reveals the intense unoriginality of radiohead's music--through images, models, perhaps brief text thrown in...images of previous musician's music being stolen and twisted into something labeled "experimental" by a parasitic newtfaced man and his boys. Views of Legions of people worshipping him like he's Christ reborn, only turning into a false Messiah. Images of individuals having a listen at a party and disliking it, only to start loving it once they are stoned and chilling with others. Herd instinct and drugs overwealming the individual. Perhaps there will be so much evidence of suckage I will not even need to fist myself. But I am tempted to do some things to Thom, like say, put an erect penis up each nostral, or have cum shot on his face while singing. |
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chrism
Is Anybody Here?
Canada
45 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2005 : 11:23:27 PM
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i'll help you if you show us a picture of yourself so that everyone knows of your true sex. the pic must have you holding a cup. in the cup, put 1 pen, 1 fork and a toothbrush......just so we know you didn't steal the pic on the web.  |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2005 : 10:47:39 AM
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| (s)he won't do it. |
death to false metal. |
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chrism
Is Anybody Here?
Canada
45 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2005 : 3:00:19 PM
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| you're right dan, (s)he isn't man enough.....or is (s)he? |
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HotKoreanGirl
Chatterbox
130 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2005 : 3:31:16 PM
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I don't know what the fascination of seeing pictures of me is...is it because my name is hotkoreangirl? What if my name was fatkoreanbitch, or Uglyasianretard. Would you still like to see pics of me, or is it because I am hot?
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chrism
Is Anybody Here?
Canada
45 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2005 : 3:52:58 PM
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| yes. yes we would. and i don't believe you're hot. but really, what's the big problem with posting pics? |
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HotKoreanGirl
Chatterbox
130 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2005 : 4:12:34 PM
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I guess there's no problem with posting pics...I just wondered what the fascination was...Dan p, do you really look like that? I think a certain mystery might be gone if we all start posting pics... Plus I am affraid you couldn't stop masturbating if you saw one of me, tee hee!
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chrism
Is Anybody Here?
Canada
45 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2005 : 4:31:04 PM
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whatever, i don't believe your song. you must proove yourself.  |
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HotKoreanGirl
Chatterbox
130 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2005 : 4:46:15 PM
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| I am warning you chrism, you might not be able to concentrate on work/school...you will have to learn to type one-handed, and use the mouse with you teeth or something... |
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chrism
Is Anybody Here?
Canada
45 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2005 : 4:53:09 PM
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| are you threatening me with powers of lust? i cannot be defeated, for i am VIRGIN MAN...wait, no i'm not. but i don't believe you. |
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HotKoreanGirl
Chatterbox
130 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2005 : 5:09:32 PM
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haha, ok, well, I don't think I should threaten anyone with my fire and brimstone...it is much too--HOT. It will make you buldge--like a burrito of lust. I advise staying clear of such things unless you desire to become a helpless love slave.
Let's try and stay on target with the topic--I believe it went from Radiohead to pink floyd, to fisting on video. I'm not sure how it got to the fisting, but I thought pink floyd and Radiohead were supposed to be the pertinent ones.
Pink floyd obviously requires no fisting, noor looking at myself in a mirror to appreciate.
Radiohead requires extreme fisting. Or else simulated fisting via-3dstudio max and some hallucinagenic drugs.
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chrism
Is Anybody Here?
Canada
45 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2005 : 5:12:30 PM
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Yeah, PF rocks. dave gilmours' solo stuff is unreal too. i have the meltdown concert on dvd. ps. if i was a love slave, i wouldn't ask for help.
 burrito of lust |
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guitarisPIMP
Yak Addict
Niue
587 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2005 : 6:25:16 PM
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Burritos don't bulge. And bulge isn't spelled buldge.
Why do I keep getting the impression that you're just a 14 year old boy? Oh yeah, probably because you still haven't proved you're not, and you abruptly shifted topics after being challenged to post pictures. |
my favorite color is go fuck yourself. :D |
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HotKoreanGirl
Chatterbox
130 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2005 : 6:43:18 PM
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How can you live in this world and not see burritos bulge? (if that's the way you spell it).
Why do you think I am 14, or are you just really 14 yourself and wish I was 14, so that you could have sex with me?
Sometimes I wish I was 14 again and smoking weed so I could appreciate radiohead the way some do.
If I shifted topics, it was to protect people from compulsive masturbation on site of my pics. I am sorry, but I was doing it for your own good. But if you insist, I will dig some up. I advise you to view with caution though...and I'll try and see if I can find one with toothbrush, cup and all that, in order to proove I do exist. Kind of a lot of work to prove myself. |
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chrism
Is Anybody Here?
Canada
45 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2005 : 6:51:27 PM
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hurry up now. we're waiting.  |
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guitarisPIMP
Yak Addict
Niue
587 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2005 : 6:53:54 PM
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Close, but I'm 16. And no, I don't get turned on by flirty, dirty jokes on forums, which you seem to throw into most of your posts at inappropriate times. What with masturbation to your pics which to this day don't exist, fisting yourself to Radiohead, having sex with a 14 year old version of you, strange lusting burritos, and thrusting of flaccid(spell check your posts also please) pre-pubescent cocks into metaphorical asses... and that's just within your last 5 or 6 posts on this thread. With all those dirty jokes it's not too farfetched a claim to stake that you are a young boy budding into puberty.
And by the way, I hope you realize that until these pics get posted, the issue is resolved on these boards as to the fact of whether or not you are a man, and the verdict is this: you are a 14 year old boy with a korean fetish. |
my favorite color is go fuck yourself. :D |
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HotKoreanGirl
Chatterbox
130 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2005 : 7:13:56 PM
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that was pretty funny, but unfortunately, I have no Korean fetish, aside from being Korean myself...maybe it's narcisim (sp)?
Ah, to be close to puberty again...you yourself just went through it not long ago--that's cool. Who doesn't like pre-pubescent cocks in metaphorical asses? Is that bothersome? Do you not know many adults who use this sort of descriptive language? Sorry if you find it inserted (much like the cock) in the posts at inappropriate times.
I don't mean to turn anyone on with dirty jokes (god I hope I am not doing that!). And I am not trying to garner some strange affection through it either--I'm just trying to describe some things I feel about radiohead, and other things are incidentally brought up.
Rock on. Puberty rules. |
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guitarisPIMP
Yak Addict
Niue
587 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2005 : 7:15:43 PM
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| It does. Especially the part where all the girls have so many hormones that they can't control their own vaginal impulses. Blessed be the horny girls. |
my favorite color is go fuck yourself. :D |
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chrism
Is Anybody Here?
Canada
45 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2005 : 7:18:09 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by HotKoreanGirl
And I am not trying to garner some strange affection through it
does that mean that you aren't in love with me? |
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HotKoreanGirl
Chatterbox
130 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2005 : 1:13:30 PM
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I wouldn't say I'm in love as much as unintentionally leading you into a baited love trap.
Music has the right to children - Boards of Canada
Pink Floyd creates a vast universe of sound and communicates like alien superiors talking to their beloved creation.
Radiohead longs for its listeners to feel the jilted turmoil of the competitiveness of the modern world; to break free of it as well as patterned, mundane living. Ironic that they whine about the stuff that makes them so much money. |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2005 : 3:14:15 PM
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| do i look like what? |
death to false metal. |
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HotKoreanGirl
Chatterbox
130 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2005 : 3:19:38 PM
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| Do you really look like a human being, or are you really a computer program like HAL from 2001 Space oddessy, represented by 2 digital characters--one which looks like a green wife-beater with eyes, and the other his pink goon. |
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enthuTIMsiast
Alien Abductee
6990 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2005 : 3:44:41 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by HotKoreanGirl
Do you really look like a human being, or are you really a computer program like HAL from 2001 Space oddessy, represented by 2 digital characters--one which looks like a green wife-beater with eyes, and the other his pink goon.
 |
Tim Reynolds Downloads
I am not the albatross of love, I am the human ellipsis. I am dot dot dot. - Leo Kottke
I hate beating people over the head with anything. We can all make up our own minds. What we don’t have is enough music. More music please. - Leo Kottke |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2005 : 11:30:00 PM
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| i am a healthy human male. |
death to false metal. |
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guitarisPIMP
Yak Addict
Niue
587 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2005 : 7:28:32 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dan p.
i am a healthy human male.
And so is HKG. |
my favorite color is go fuck yourself. :D |
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Jamie M
Chatterbox
Canada
404 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2005 : 8:28:38 PM
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Haven't been here for awhile, and it seems the topic has strayed a fair bit, but I heard about this thread, and had to throw in my two or three cents on my favourite band. Haven't read everything, so sorry if I'm repeating someone.
The thing with Radiohead is that you really just have to get it. You do or you don't. And part of the beauty of it is you can get some of it, and not all of it, but that doesn't matter.. Cause they have covered many different styles. Compared to most bands anyway.
Personally I didn't used to like them that much. I thought Paranoid Android was brilliant, and that was it until Kid A came out. Even then I didn't like the other stuff though.. eventually one day it just clicked. OK Computer was suddenly the greatest album of all time. I used to think Radiohead songs were almost good but lacked something. Now they lack nothing at all. They are exactly what I want. I don't think you can force it. Music finds you. There's no reason why you have to like a band, or even understand why others like a band, just because alot of people do.
To me, Radiohead has the perfect combination of lyrics, singer, guitar, bass and drums, more consistently than any other band I've heard.
To me, Radiohead will never be anything less than brilliant
It seems that the only argument to saying Radiohead sucks is that you're jealous that you're unable to appreciate them and be as inspired as others are by their music. And actually, the way I see it, whatever helps you deal with it is just fine.. because that really is a great loss.
OK, that's all for now. Please resume off-topic conversation. |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2005 : 10:33:08 PM
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yay! it's back to radiohead.
in a sense i agree. i understand the cleverness of their music, but the music just doesn't appeal to me. i think "getting it" sound arrogant, too. as if "getting it" means "you have to like it, because taste isn't totally subjective." as if someone who gets it is somehow a step above someone who doesn't get it. i get it. i just don't want it.
EDIT'D |
death to false metal. |
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guitarisPIMP
Yak Addict
Niue
587 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2005 : 11:13:12 PM
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"as if someone who gets it is somehow a step above someone who gets it. i get it. "
hmm....I almost didn't get that..
Despite dan p's very confusing grammatical error that totally throws off the meaning of that sentence, I understand him. I totally agree. |
my favorite color is go fuck yourself. :D |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2005 : 12:44:42 AM
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| yeah. i fixed it. |
death to false metal. |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2005 : 01:06:34 AM
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I hsve no opinion of raiohead because for the life of me I can't recall a tune of theirs. However I must say that people who get certain things in music or that have an understanding of the musical language tend to be less enamored by the BS of the industry. I know that all taste in music is basically subjective, but people who pretty much know nothing about music can't be very objective or truthful to themselves in what they like because whether they realize it or not most of the time they are programmed to like something. I definitely have stuff I respect musically that I'm not into, but I think some people are more about subjectivity completely and can't even look at something objectively. I know it's a subjective thing to like or dislike, but I think there is a small case to be made for people who understand the language of music.
For me I want nothing to do with the playing of someone that isn't on a high level in some area. I see all the time these musicians with these seemingly cool licks and all that until you realize there is no connection between them and their music. I would rather listen to atonal, or free stuff that is produced from an emotionally connective state rather then someone who just can write some good tunes and play some cool shit. I'm more interested in seeig mastery of a language and expression. |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2005 : 11:03:47 AM
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| let's say then, that taste is entirely subjective, but recognizing masterful composition, songcraft, or talent, is objective. for instance, you cannot argue the pure genius of stravinsky's rite of spring. you can't argue that tim reynold's songwriting and proficiency on guitar are bad, because they're just not. but just because it is pure genius doesn't mean you have to like it. |
death to false metal. |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2005 : 1:36:23 PM
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| Agreed. It should work pretty well except under the circumstances of people like John Cage and some others like Sun Ra and such where some people don't agree that what they do is genius. Even Phillip Glass gets kind of sketchy for most people. It's because they have created a new language as composers and certain people do not recognize it. It mostly sounds like it's coming from space to most people, but I hope that not too many people think that they are not genius'. |
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Jamie M
Chatterbox
Canada
404 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2005 : 3:01:40 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dan p.
yay! it's back to radiohead.
in a sense i agree. i understand the cleverness of their music, but the music just doesn't appeal to me. i think "getting it" sound arrogant, too. as if "getting it" means "you have to like it, because taste isn't totally subjective." as if someone who gets it is somehow a step above someone who doesn't get it. i get it. i just don't want it.
EDIT'D
"Getting it" doesn't really encompass what I was trying to say, it only hints at it, and I hoped everyone would pick up on that. What I mean is that by getting it, there's something about their music that just makes sense, and it is amazing, and you enjoy it. And I mean this in an entirely subjective sense. I never even began to suggest that "getting it" was an objective thing. Just because I think there's a large contrast to getting and not getting Radiohead, doesn't make it objective.
Dan when you say you get it but don't want it; I can see that, by my definition, you don't get it. Because if you did get it, you'd want it. All the time.
And sorry if I sound arrogant, but I do feel a step above anyone who doesn't get the same inspiration that I do from Radiohead. How could I not? I'd be surprised if any of you didn't feel the same about your favourite music.
I totally agree that taste and genius should be kept separate. |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2005 : 4:04:43 PM
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| I think it's then about getting the musical ideas, but not getting the appeal. I get what most pop bands are doing musically, but I don't get why people listen to them. In fact usually for fun when a friend turns on the radio and tells me what a great song this or that is I'm a total ass and I begin to tell them what proggression they are using and then break apart their simple patterns and let them know just how uninteresting the music is to me. The worst is the punk style pop stuff with the bass on the beat all the time changing every other measure to a new note. I do often say though when someone tells me that some lame band is really good and has me listen to it that I don't get it at all because it makes no sense why they would want to play root, fifths and octaves in parrallels for minutes at a time. |
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guitarisPIMP
Yak Addict
Niue
587 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2005 : 7:26:02 PM
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| Zach, your friends you mentioned soundn pretty damn close-minded. I hate it when people listen to music for lyrics only, and listen to the same styles acting as if it's always something new. Love, Violence, Drugs, Self Loathing, Money, and How original/cool/different/badass/desireable to everyone Artist X is...that's the subject matter of 90% of songs on the charts. |
my favorite color is go fuck yourself. :D |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2005 : 7:35:50 PM
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i'd have to take exception to the parallel 5th and octave comment. being into speed metal and hardcore, there's a lot of that. i don't find that the lack of exotic harmony, or even just thirds makes a rhythm guitar part boring. what makes it boring is when you have that root fifth octave formation, but absolutely nothing happens rhythmically. using power chords to slap down some badass groove or rhythm figure is a-ok in my book.
and jamie, i was talking about people who say that in general, not you specifically. that's just how it sounded to me. |
death to false metal. |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2005 : 10:55:48 PM
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Ok, but steady 8th notes in parralell octaves gets old quick. Like in 4 measures. I don't mind it so much if they use it correctly like you said. I do prefer music that has the more exotic harmonies though as a personal taste. I like music that really challenges me to keep up with them. Listening is an active thing for me and not a passive thing.
As for my friends I can't say that I expect much from them as they have never studied music. Of course not all my friends are this way as I have some musician friends and such, but in general my friends outside of music don't know a damn thing about it. I think when I showed them the Wooten Bass Day 98 DVD they about died from realizing that he was really talented, and they liked it, but they still wouldn't listen to him on a really regular basis, because it's like a foreign language to them. I guess it's fine if they aren't into the "art music" like I am because I guess there is a place for the cool music and whatnot too. |
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HotKoreanGirl
Chatterbox
130 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2005 : 10:13:52 AM
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I won't attempt to argue music theory with anyone here, I was never much good at it, but it does make a useful tool for analyzing things. ZachmoZach makes an interesting point about music speaking different languages and people being able to understand the language or not.
It depends what you're into--for most people, that's pretty much it. Which is the same as all this objective subjective talk that's been goingon.
You can hear Victor Wooten's bass playing, or Steve Vai's ultra cock-rock virtuoso guitar playing and appreciate it as basically anyone who loves music. But that's as far as it goes for most people--they will safely return to be around the musical language that's most pertinent to them--possibly top 40 crap, or somethin gangsta--because that's just what they like.
I also agree that with musical training--or by listening to lots of different music with an open mind, you become aware of many languages present and can appreciate them. Perhaps the more you are familiar with, the more simpleminded oridinary ones (like top 40) become retarded-sounding. But most people will never get beyond the music they like, and the languages they are comfortable listening to. So alas, much music in this world will not be appreciated by the masses.
But what bothers me, is when you have a band like radiohead, who appears to think a little outside the regular top-40 box, and gets shitstorms of followers. A big issue I have is that they do not deserve to have the following they do, based on the music they produce. I can understand why bands like Coldplay or U2 have millions of followers, as their music is pretty much "in the box." But when a band like radiohead, who are a bit outside the box get tons of followers, it makes me sick because I know of so many other bands like them whose languages are just as accessible, yet much more powerful--and yet many of these bands are just undiscovered and the ones who like them are labeled "hipsters" or whatever bullshit name you give them.
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guitarisPIMP
Yak Addict
Niue
587 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2005 : 5:50:49 PM
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HKG, I totally disagree with your thoughts on virtuoso playing to the masses. I remember back when I had an untrained ear, a sparse musical background, and I would hear things like Steve Vai, Vic, any kind of jazz or blues or classical or any instrumental music, and I wouldn't appreciate it nearly as much as I do now. The masses of close-minded listeners don't respect music with any kind of "color" to it; they may recognize that it's difficult to play, but they don't see the point in all of it, as it doesn't sound "good" to them. Not catchy, not groovy, whatever their reason, they don't appreciate that kind of playing nearly as much as a music lover does.
This is a rather large generalization, but it's VERY on the spot. Consider this: hip-hop sells millions of records to millions of people. I can guarantee you without even looking at statistics that at least 98% of those people who buy those albums couldn't bear to sit and listen to "Classical Gas" or "Stella By Starlight."
I can also guarantee you that if at a concert John Mayer played Covered in Rain, Who Knows, and an assortment of SRV and jimi hendrix covers and blues and jazz jams, thousands of fans would be disappointed. Most of that audience may enjoy that for a short while, but only because they think John Mayer is a sweet piece of man-candy and he's playing the fuck out of his instrument and that's more hot, not because they like the music. |
my favorite color is go fuck yourself. :D |
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HotKoreanGirl
Chatterbox
130 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2005 : 2:26:49 PM
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| God John Meyer, I hate that guy. Another one who doesn't deserve to get the following, except for his looks and his ability to do a couple things with a guitar. A dave matthews voice knock off. A "Sweet piece of man candy" to be thrust up a dirty colon. |
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Mave Datthews
Is Anybody Here?
USA
32 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2005 : 3:09:55 PM
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| i like mayer. yea he's a little poppy but he's an incredible guitarist. just to bad that doesn't show too much w/his sappy love songs. |
Tim is my sanity. |
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guitarisPIMP
Yak Addict
Niue
587 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2005 : 3:11:26 PM
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| I respect him alot, because despite the following he gets, he still maintains a strong blues/jazz influence in his playing and doesn't try to fall in line in order to keep his following. Like in ACL, he played with Buddy Guy, I thought that was great. The only problem I have is that his subject matter in all of his songs' lyrics are still complete bullshit, and probably the only reason most girls gush over him. And Your Body is a Wonderland was written for only one purpose: vaginas. |
my favorite color is go fuck yourself. :D |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2005 : 3:22:12 PM
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| Mayer is an incredible guitarist? When the fuck did this happen? Am I missing something here. I know local guys that kick his ass all over the place. Guys that can burn on charts that are modulating like crazy and still be fucking stretching the harmony out on their lines and not even grabbing the pick till they're well past 200 bpm. Then they turn around and play the most intricate beutiful ballad shit on the face of the earth. Mayer is less then incredible. |
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HotKoreanGirl
Chatterbox
130 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2005 : 3:26:40 PM
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it can be noble to write for vaginas--but it doesn't get me wet.
It's too pussy for me, even though I'm a pretty girlie girl. |
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GuitarGuy305
Alien Abductee
USA
2007 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2005 : 08:43:07 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by HotKoreanGirl
it can be noble to write for vaginas--but it doesn't get me wet.
Don't you mean it doesn't get you hard? SomeMaybeOrMaybeNotKoreanPersonThatIsMostLikelyNotFemale |
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HotKoreanGirl
Chatterbox
130 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2005 : 11:14:07 AM
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Cock rock (guitarists): Joe Satriani, Steve Via, Eddie Van Halen
Frathouse Rock: Hootie and the blowfish, Dave Matthews band
Vagina Rock: Coldplay, U2, John Mayer, Keane
Puberty Rock: Radiohead
Homo Rock: The Killers, Keane
Think any of these guys belong in different catagories?
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2005 : 11:47:23 AM
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| writing songs to get pussy is not noble. in fact, it's the exact opposite of noble. i think we've had this discussion before. |
death to false metal. |
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HotKoreanGirl
Chatterbox
130 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2005 : 12:37:39 PM
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| yes I think we did...that discussion also involved beer. I think it was about how guys think they can get girls in the sack by playing dave matthews, and how lame that is. Producing music in order to procure vagina is noble because it is trading power for power. Just like money. Sex is power, music is power, thus making music to get vagina is merely an exchange of power. Now, music specifically designed to get vagina probably won't work, because most vaginas can see through that shit. But men who play music in order to get vagina is lame (if it's dave matthews, that's super lame.) Certain Musicians are just using their skills to move up in the biological world. People who use others music for sex are lame. People who create music that gets them sex is noble. |
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guitarisPIMP
Yak Addict
Niue
587 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2005 : 2:45:47 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Zachmozach
Mayer is an incredible guitarist? When the fuck did this happen? Am I missing something here. I know local guys that kick his ass all over the place. Guys that can burn on charts that are modulating like crazy and still be fucking stretching the harmony out on their lines and not even grabbing the pick till they're well past 200 bpm. Then they turn around and play the most intricate beutiful ballad shit on the face of the earth. Mayer is less then incredible.
What do local guys have anything to do with the fact that John Mayer is a good guitarist? |
my favorite color is go fuck yourself. :D |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2005 : 7:02:11 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by HotKoreanGirl
yes I think we did...that discussion also involved beer. I think it was about how guys think they can get girls in the sack by playing dave matthews, and how lame that is. Producing music in order to procure vagina is noble because it is trading power for power. Just like money. Sex is power, music is power, thus making music to get vagina is merely an exchange of power. Now, music specifically designed to get vagina probably won't work, because most vaginas can see through that shit. But men who play music in order to get vagina is lame (if it's dave matthews, that's super lame.) Certain Musicians are just using their skills to move up in the biological world. People who use others music for sex are lame. People who create music that gets them sex is noble.
they should be using their skills to create art, or to entertain. i guess if sex is a by-product, a secondary consequence of the music, then fine. but if you're just playing to get laid, stop playing. |
death to false metal. |
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Jamie M
Chatterbox
Canada
404 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2005 : 7:26:46 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by HotKoreanGirl
But what bothers me, is when you have a band like radiohead, who appears to think a little outside the regular top-40 box, and gets shitstorms of followers. A big issue I have is that they do not deserve to have the following they do, based on the music they produce. I can understand why bands like Coldplay or U2 have millions of followers, as their music is pretty much "in the box." But when a band like radiohead, who are a bit outside the box get tons of followers, it makes me sick because I know of so many other bands like them whose languages are just as accessible, yet much more powerful--and yet many of these bands are just undiscovered and the ones who like them are labeled "hipsters" or whatever bullshit name you give them.
I had a friend who tried this reasoning on me when he was explaining why he didn't like Radiohead very much. It wasn't until long after that I realized what a terrible argument it is.
Think about what you did. You just started a massive thread about how Radiohead sucks, when the sum of your reasoning is that you don't like them because too many other people like them. Why don't you forget about what other people think and have an independent view on music. Regardless of what popular mentality is. That's what music is all about anyway. This basically brings me back to my point that you're jealous of how other people love it and you just don't get it.
One of the reasons I think Radiohead is so brilliant is they were able to maintain so many fans when they started going, as you say, out of the box. They single-handedly changed and widened people's musical style and preference. How many bands have done that?
That's great if there's many other bands just as good as Radiohead out there that are undiscovered. But to use that as an argument that they suck is just ignorant, and just shows your frustration that the bands you like aren't considered as "cool" as Radiohead.
So please, rather than harrassing good bands, spend your time promoting these other bands that are apparently more powerful.
Radiohead does not suck. |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2005 : 8:37:34 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by guitarisPIMP
What do local guys have anything to do with the fact that John Mayer is a good guitarist?
Good. Yes. Incredible. No. If he was incredible I would expect him to not get his ass totally worked musically by people that no one knows about in a town with a good, but somewhat small jazz scene and music scene in general. All I'm saying is I can go get lessons from people that can out technique, out improvise, and generally outplay Mayer and they are not big time like him. Incredible is just too over the top for him. |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2005 : 9:19:04 PM
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| this is all a moot point. let's, for argument's sake, say that john mayer is an incredible guitarist. it doesn't matter, because the music he writes, plays, and performs couldn't be more pedestrian if it walked down the street. what he can do doesn't matter. what he does do matters. i can save people drowning, but i just walk away. am i a good person for my ability to save people? |
death to false metal. |
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guitarisPIMP
Yak Addict
Niue
587 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2005 : 10:21:53 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Zachmozach
quote:
Originally posted by guitarisPIMP
What do local guys have anything to do with the fact that John Mayer is a good guitarist?
Good. Yes. Incredible. No. If he was incredible I would expect him to not get his ass totally worked musically by people that no one knows about in a town with a good, but somewhat small jazz scene and music scene in general. All I'm saying is I can go get lessons from people that can out technique, out improvise, and generally outplay Mayer and they are not big time like him. Incredible is just too over the top for him.
i see...well i wasn't the one who said "incredible," so, oh well. And yes, I'd have to agree with you. |
my favorite color is go fuck yourself. :D |
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HotKoreanGirl
Chatterbox
130 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2005 : 11:16:48 AM
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Jamie M, You have a point about jealousy of people all liking a band...I have thought that to myself at times. If you couldn't tell that I am an "independent thinker" when it comes to music already I'm surprised. I fancy myself as one who typically likes music just for the sake of good music--no matter what kind it is, noor where it comes from. Huge following or not, if Radiohead was a good band and I liked them, it wouldn't bother me if tons of people loved them. I like shit that millions of people like--really popular stuff too.
I just hate it when a band with much less talent, and much less of anything than anyone claims they have gets immensely popular. I get jealous of people's attention, even though I don't know a fraction of the masses--I just get plain jealous and bothered by all the attention people give to a band that doesn't deserve it. It's like wtf, why do all these people love this average band? Why don't the like something great? It fuels such a detest for the band, having tricked all these people into liking them.
"They suck!" I say. They suck for tricking people into liking them. Doing whatever they did to do it. Maybe it's like the "brown note". They play a certain note and everyone poops all over themselves...in their case it's like boyband ferver translated into moping, mysterical ponderings, bright light of hope gayness, helpless lonliness...all collectively experienced, and all so...GAY! So freaking GAY. Dance music played at gay clubs is less gay then radiohead. God, what a bunch of fucking slut bags Radiohead is. How can you not agree with me? |
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GuitarGuy305
Alien Abductee
USA
2007 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2005 : 2:10:50 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by HotKoreanGirl
"They suck!" I say. They suck for tricking people into liking them. Doing whatever they did to do it. Maybe it's like the "brown note". They play a certain note and everyone poops all over themselves...in their case it's like boyband ferver translated into moping, mysterical ponderings, bright light of hope gayness, helpless lonliness...all collectively experienced, and all so...GAY! So freaking GAY. Dance music played at gay clubs is less gay then radiohead. God, what a bunch of fucking slut bags Radiohead is. How can you not agree with me?
Because this is the wrong place to post this, as many here like Radiohead. If you want people to agree with you, find some anti-radiohead website, I'm sure they'd love you there and they'd all agree. There are probably more guys pretending to be hot asian chicks there too.
You're not wrong for thinking they are not good. You ARE wrong for saying they suck. "Sucking" is relative. I say if a band cant play live, they suck. Everyone thinks bands suck for different reasons. This is true with many things. Look at something like food. If I say I don't like pizza, does that mean pizza sucks? Tons of people on this planet love pizza and think it's great. If I don't like it, that doesn't mean that pizza is disgusting and no one should eat it.
I can't stand when someone says "*band/artist* sucks!". Who is that person to say that this band or artist has no business being popular, selling albums, or making music? One of my best friends is a huge Prince fan. I don't get Prince, and I probably never will. I don't like his music. But I don't go up to her and say "Prince sucks!" I just say "I haven't heard much of his stuff, but I really can't get into what I've heard" She understands that, just as I can understand when someone says they find Tim Reynolds acoustic intrumental music boring. Some people like different things. TR's music may be boring for those who like to have lyrics to sing along to or whatever. It's whatever floats your goddamn boat. But just because you don't like a band, that doesn't mean they suck. Going back to the Prince thing, I can admit he's a good musician, and a good artist, I am just not into him. That doesn't mean he sucks. I just don't like him. I'm not so conceited that I think if I don't like a band, they suck, and therefore no one should like them.
Radiohead did not "trick" anyone. Thom didn't organize this meeting of the band years ago to figure out how they can trick people into liking their music.
People fucking like them. Get over it. |
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therippa
Fluffy-Esque
Kazakhstan
1099 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2005 : 2:24:06 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by HotKoreanGirl
"They suck!" I say. They suck for tricking people into liking them. Doing whatever they did to do it. Maybe it's like the "brown note". They play a certain note and everyone poops all over themselves...in their case it's like boyband ferver translated into moping, mysterical ponderings, bright light of hope gayness, helpless lonliness...all collectively experienced, and all so...GAY! So freaking GAY. Dance music played at gay clubs is less gay then radiohead. God, what a bunch of fucking slut bags Radiohead is. How can you not agree with me?
Why is it almost every one of your idiotic diatribes segues into a homophobic rant? |
Aspiring to Be Fluffy-Esque an Alien Abductee! |
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HotKoreanGirl
Chatterbox
130 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2005 : 3:24:27 PM
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i don't think saying something is gay is homophobic. Why do you think it is? Remember the whole "gay in jest" discussion we had ages ago?
Look, obviously Radiohead doesn't suck like something trully sucky--like a disease or something, but they do suck for just being not good and so popular. Like some cheesy movie or something, you get it? Thank you for saying I am not wrong for thinking they are not good. I am just taking it a step further.
Seriously:
1. the music takes you back to early teen years and before--I guess people who are over 14 and still like them still long for those times, or who just can't get over them.
2. the music ought to be enjoyed with drugs for best results.
3. Having unoriginal subject matter isn't a problem, in fact nearly nothing is new these days--but they make it worse by TRYING to be different, and convincing people that they are so different when in fact they are totally not. People like to say it opens up vistas to other music...that's giving them way too much credit. If they actually open doors to other music, it's because they've stolen so much other music and finding new music through them is mearly discovering the music they stole from.
4. You can't tell me you like their latest album--they are stepping to new lows with that one, and probably put a few brown notes in it, just to get some response...hey if they won't like it, we might as well make them shit themselves, huh?
5. I wish I could get over people liking them, but I can't. It's like standing around watching grandmothers give their savings away to televangalists. Obviously in this analogy, fans of radiohead are the gradnmothers.
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therippa
Fluffy-Esque
Kazakhstan
1099 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2005 : 5:11:20 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by HotKoreanGirl
i don't think saying something is gay is homophobic. Why do you think it is? Remember the whole "gay in jest" discussion we had ages ago?
Look, obviously Radiohead doesn't suck like something trully sucky--like a disease or something, but they do suck for just being not good and so popular. Like some cheesy movie or something, you get it? Thank you for saying I am not wrong for thinking they are not good. I am just taking it a step further.
Seriously:
1. the music takes you back to early teen years and before--I guess people who are over 14 and still like them still long for those times, or who just can't get over them.
2. the music ought to be enjoyed with drugs for best results.
3. Having unoriginal subject matter isn't a problem, in fact nearly nothing is new these days--but they make it worse by TRYING to be different, and convincing people that they are so different when in fact they are totally not. People like to say it opens up vistas to other music...that's giving them way too much credit. If they actually open doors to other music, it's because they've stolen so much other music and finding new music through them is mearly discovering the music they stole from.
4. You can't tell me you like their latest album--they are stepping to new lows with that one, and probably put a few brown notes in it, just to get some response...hey if they won't like it, we might as well make them shit themselves, huh?
5. I wish I could get over people liking them, but I can't. It's like standing around watching grandmothers give their savings away to televangalists. Obviously in this analogy, fans of radiohead are the gradnmothers.
You are a fucking idiot. I'm done with this thread.
Please, fellow members of the task force, please don't feed this troll anymore. |
Aspiring to Be Fluffy-Esque an Alien Abductee! |
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HotKoreanGirl
Chatterbox
130 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2005 : 5:47:42 PM
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| wow, you must really like radiohead. |
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Erich
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1427 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2005 : 6:13:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dan p.
we've had this argument before. it's the one where i say "being high doesn't make the music better, and it doesn't make you listen better and notice things people who aren't high don't notice. it makes you think more about yourself and think more about how the music effects you." then you say "shut up because you've never been high so you don't even know." now that i've saved everyone the trouble of going through that conversation again, i'd like to add that it seems to me that if you "need" to be high to really "understand it/get it" or whatever, that is a weakness in the songwriting, and not anything remarkable. if the song's so good, how come it relies on a drug to let the listener enjoy it?
funny, i see that as more of a weakness in the person than in the song. If someone can't understand the musical genius of floyd without drugs, that doesnt mean that the songs are flawed, just means the persons mind is too closed without drugs.
note: this has nothing to do with subjectivity, so if you dont ilke floyd regardless of drugs, thats fine too. Shame on you. But its still fine. |
~pw'oikr
~( "> |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2005 : 7:37:23 PM
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| i don't do drugs, so, you know, anything i enjoy i do all by myself. i guess it could be the listener's weakness for not being "open minded enough" whatever that means, to like them. but that assumes the only possible problem is with this vauge concept of "open mindedness" and not preference. i don't like them, but it's not because i'm not open minded. i don't like them because i don't feel like any of their music does anything. yeah, it's vast and atmospheric or whatever that asian guy said, and if that's the intent of the music, to be vast and atmospheric, then fine. the music succeeds, in its own right. it's just not what i look for in music. |
death to false metal. |
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Jamie M
Chatterbox
Canada
404 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2005 : 7:45:13 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by HotKoreanGirl
Blah. Blah. Blah.
I'll give you good marks for effort, but here's some things you might wanna work on..
1. Trying to blame their success on teenage nostalgia? That is your weakest point yet.
2. All music is better with drugs. Radiohead don't support drugs at all and sure as hell don't promote their music being associated with drugs.
3. They're not trying to trick anyone. You're listening to media interpretation. Why not pay attention to what the band is doing and not what the media and even their fans say about them. It seems you should change your argument to "The way Radiohead is portrayed to me sucks".
Music is borrowed in this case, not stolen. It's done all the time, you said so yourself it's acceptable. They do what all bands do. If it opens someone's mind to a different style or whatever, that person has the right to credit Radiohead with exposing them to new music. Your arguments are so driven by spite that you're just not seeing things logically.
4. Their latest album was good. Not my favourite, but still good. Too bad you failed to mention any of the lows on the album, now I have no way to nullify this point.
5. Now you're just trying to distract your own flaw with some kind of ridiculous insult. Look at it however you want, you're still the idiot here.
If you've got a problem with their success, blame the fans, blame the media, don't blame the band.
Sorry for feeding the troll, this thread will bore me soon enough, there's just some things that need to be said. |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2005 : 7:48:44 PM
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"2. All music is better with drugs."
merh. wrong. try again. |
death to false metal. |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2005 : 12:45:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dan p.
"2. All music is better with drugs."
merh. wrong. try again.
Strong Euphoric feelings make pretty much everything seem better. |
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HotKoreanGirl
Chatterbox
130 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2005 : 2:04:21 PM
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Jamie M, I have given it more thought, and worked on the things you said...here's what I have come up with:
1. Most people start purchasing/developing tastes in music in early teenage years. Most of us had parents who played us music as children which influenced us later, or had no effect. Much of radiohead's character--their melodies and plaintive vocals appeal so strongly to lonely teenagers in bedrooms. The music relishes inside a juvenile atmosphere of thoughts, and emotions..like heavy metal bands. Most people experience these things and then grow out of them. It seems the most ardent radiohead fans that I have encountered are in their early teens--they are the ones who become very defensive if you say something negative about radiohead. And then there are those who have grown up, but have not matured in certain psychological/social areas--they are still asking the same questions, and still getting the same answers, or no answers. My view is that Radiohead helps provide a musical connection to life for these people and their perpetual juvenile Q&A. If that's how you want to live life, that's cool--it's just not for me, and I argue that society is much more wonderful then radiohead would have you believe. Get over it--things are not so bleak. (A big shout to Charles Dickens and his Bleak House--fuck you too, although that's better than radiohead) So Therefore, I believe a great deal of radiohead's success is due to millions of people's social underdevelopment. And I have said this before much more simply and crass(ly) by saying: "I need to be 14 or be growing fresh pubes to appreciate it.
2. I’m sure Radiohead doesn’t support drugs, but fact remains, the drugs certainly help the music. I feel certain drugs turn up emotional sensitivity levels to beyond natural, or cause you to perceive things which are not actually there. They can also help a person become more agreeable with whatever is going on. Put these things together and Radiohead’s cheesy/excessively borrowed melodies become hyper appealing and original sounding, very agreeable, and start convincing yourself that better music is hitting your ears. With drugs, Thom Yorke ceases to be a martin-short goblin like man with a lazy quasimoto eye, and becomes nothing short of a mythological hero—like Persius, turning trite verbiage into an articulate proverbial sword of righteousness—cutting through to deep understanding of humanity which in this state of mind you are convinced that no one has yet done.
3. The trickery is evident when you realize just how many bands radiohead has “borrowed” from. A trained musical ear will discover them as some sort of unholy alliance of ELP, John Coltrain, The Police, The pixies, and later Richard D. James. Perhaps it’s a redeemable quality more than an a negative one they have in that if a listener hears some of these other great musicians, they will identify with something in the songs by virtue of Radiohead. But for someone who has a broader musical background, this sort of thing, for me at least and others, can be bothersome. Bothersome because people actually believe they are so different and original when they are simply a bastardized conglomeration of a lot of good music that they have never heard before. Which brings me back to my point about being an early teen. You’re young, impressionable, inexperienced…something like radiohead must strike as different and amazing, but only because you haven’t experienced much other truly GOOD music. So therefore, many of you have been tricked by your own ignorance into thinking radiohead is so original and good.
Lets start with those three for now, this is becoming a fucking long post. Am I making any more sense here? A tad perhaps?
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2005 : 2:20:23 PM
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| "makes the music seem better." not "makes the music better." the music remains exactly the same. and not all music is better when you're high. go ahead and listen to bach's mass in b minor high. you think you'll appreciate that better high? understand it better? if anything, i'd be willing to bet you miss more than you gain from that. |
death to false metal. |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2005 : 6:36:38 PM
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Well it's basically not a winable arguement either way. Some people say people use drugs because they can't deal with reality, and some people say that they use reality because they can't deal with drugs.
As to whether the music becomes better I would say it's not the changing of the music, but the change in the perception of the person. If people enjoy how music sounds more when their brain is in a changed chemical state that results in a euphoric feeling I really don't think you can argue with that. Unless you're prepared to explain the nature of reality, and that is some comlex mathmatical shit. I just know I like Euphoric feelings, but I don't try to get into that state constantly because it's like two different points of view and I enjoy both, but one seems to be more challenging and I like a good challenge so I don't get high all the time. |
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Jamie M
Chatterbox
Canada
404 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2005 : 9:44:47 PM
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HKG, had I known you were capable of such a reasonable and logical post, I wouldn't have gone after you like I did. It actually looks like you got someone else to write it, judging by coherence, punctuation, even some ideas. But I don't wanna get into that.
I believe the basis for mainly all opinions is two things; perception and perspective. On the issue of Radiohead, we are not on the same page. But that's OK now.. you have at this point clearly stated your opinion reasonably, so I won't go any further against you. But really all of this makes me wonder why you would ask us to answer a question you already had an answer for. I'm also still confused as to why you started this thread here of all places.
At any rate, you've indirectly accused me of being psychologically and socially underdeveloped. In defense of myself:
1. You made it clear that's your point of view. Your perspective is very much different than mine. What more can I say, than that I disagree that you could label Radiohead's music as being appreciable to such a limited group and then try to make that group come across as so inferior and pathetic.
2. Again, you can substitute that about any band or artist, and it's still an irrelevent paragraph.
3. As I do not have a trained musical ear, here we're once again on a different page. Different perception of the music. Although I'm glad I don't have a trained ear, as I find over-analyzing music takes the passion out of it.
To me, you're still blaming a band for what their fans are responsible for.
Whether you add the other points is entirely up to you, you may want to redeem yourself with those more reasonable arguments. But I've more or less exhausted myself in here. |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2005 : 10:12:44 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamie M
3. As I do not have a trained musical ear, here we're once again on a different page. Different perception of the music. Although I'm glad I don't have a trained ear, as I find over-analyzing music takes the passion out of it.
Overanalyzing is one thing, but being able to analyze is another. I really can't believe how much better I've understood music since training my ear more and it hasn't taken the passion away. It's merely added to my abilty to appreciate it. |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2005 : 3:03:45 PM
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yeah, i mean if you want to listen to music stoned or whatever, fine. i'm not saying you can't or shouldn't do it. it's really not any of my business, and i'm not all that interested in who does drugs and why. it's just a choice. make it and move on. that's why i don't care for many sXe kids. you think making a choice not to drink and smoke or whatever makes you a part of some club? please. it means nothing. wipe those stupid x's off your hands and grow up a little, please. it's a choice, not a fashion.
but saying music is "better" or that you listen "better," on drugs, then i'm going to have take exception, because that implies that being on a drug and listening to music somehow puts you at an advantage musically over someone who doesn't. which is, of course, simply not true. |
death to false metal. |
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HotKoreanGirl
Chatterbox
130 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2005 : 1:53:33 PM
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Hi Jamie M, I just want to apologize for some statements of mine which if taken literally are a bit too much--the ones about social underdevelopment leading to radiohead's popularity. Obviously, this is being way too simplistic and harsh...I am sorry if you indirectly took offense. Bear in mind, I really don't mean any of what I say to be taken too personally--I sense you aren't taking it too much that way, but I just wanted to say sorry in case anything was grating on you. Peace :).
Anyway I hear what you say about analyzing music taking passion out of it. I also hear what Zach says about analzying music adding to the ability to appreciate it. Some people take the analysis too far, and some of the music they end up appreciating is ridiculous...12 tone classical stuff which they can speak volumes about but I don't care for because it sounds like someone pooped on my ears. Then sometimes you can get really into something and not be able to break it down in theory terms, or notice influences--but you think it kicks ass and that's all that matters.
I think it goes to the drug argument as well:
Some people like to experience their music with drugs and some don't.
Drugs can expand your mind to levels of sensitivity you didn't realize and then sometimes ordinary music becomes extraordinary, and brilliant music becomes just too much to handle.
I had this experience recently watching The Big Lebowski. First of all, I love that movie, and have seen it countless times. But for the first time last week I experienced it while high and drunk. In the middle of one of scenes with Steve buschemi, John Goodman, and the dude talking with each other I had to close my eyes and look away, because it was simply too overwealmingly brilliant for me to experience with both my eyes and ears at the same time. I've never had that happen with anything before.
So my verdict is drugs enhance anything...average becomes great and brilliant becomes sometimes too brilliant. |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2005 : 12:19:47 AM
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"I had this experience recently watching The Big Lebowski."
and really, that's everything we need to know about you right there. |
death to false metal. |
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Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
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HotKoreanGirl
Chatterbox
130 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2005 : 10:10:41 AM
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| so I take it dan p doesn't like the movie and Hopeful Rolling waves does. I'd like to know why you think I'm a fucking idiot. Or is it just simply because I'm not at all into radiohead? That's shallow, if that's the case. Dan p, if you don't like lebowski, well, that's ok but too bad. I'm interested in what wisdom you have to offer about people who like the movie...perhaps it's similar to me with Radiohead. |
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Kenneth
Chatterbox
218 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2005 : 10:55:22 AM
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The Big Lebowski.... now that's a good movie. By far John Goodman's best performance of all time.
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2005 : 11:49:52 AM
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| from the way you put it, it sounds like drugs don't "enhance" anything at all, but just make you think they're better than they really are. |
death to false metal. |
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Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2005 : 07:56:12 AM
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Yah, talking about nuance...the face Buscemi makes when Goodman whips out the gun in the bowling alley is priceless. You have to be paying attention, but it's a screen gem.
HKG: I just think your press to dishonor Radiohead's music is lame. You hear influence in all spectrums of music. As in life, you see shades of other people in yourself and others...same idea musically. We all are feeding and building off of each other, that is what makes it so beautiful...it's concious and subconcious, whether you like it or not.
Radiohead are a great band, with fantastic sense of rhythm and movement, great lyrical abilites, as well as fine instrumentation and a penchant for absolutely sick guitar noise. The fact that you've put so much time trying to knock them makes me wonder about you...hence, a fucking idiot. I am not Captain Sensitivity, so your multiple tirades have concluded me this; not necessarily your entire persona is fucking stupid, just the drivel you've posted on this thread.
Again, this is all my worthless opinion, but why don't you just smoke a fattie, put on something YOU like, and write about that for a while.
Dan, you are clearly of the opinion that drugs can do nothing for you, and in fact, dumb you down a good deal. The truth is, probably at least 25% of all the shit you listen to has been in someway manipulated by a mind-altering substance. Don't think some of those composers weren't getting hosed on some medieval shit. And if you listen to a modicum of rock music '66-'73, you are hearing altered states. Working on a another plane of thought never hurt anybody.
I certainly wouldn't tell Miles to lay off the heroin, if that's his bag (pun intended), who's to tell him what level he works best on. And, as said before, there's no right/wrong here, all gray. My point is music in general has been greatly affected by "drugs" over the course of centuries...and to be brutally honest, I'd hate to think how fucking boring it would be without it. Good day. |
http://db.etree.org/hopefulrollingwaves/ < My Trading List |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2005 : 11:23:20 AM
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i'll allow that i don't know the personal habits of many composers, and it's entirely possible that they had opium habits or some shit.
as for bands i listen to, i know a good deal of them make a point of not doing drugs, leastways not while writing and performing music. i'm taking a look through my cds and mp3s right now. i see 6 or 7 bands i know for sure mix drugs and music. for example, to say that the black crowes didn't mix drugs and music would be an out and out lie. i see around twice that that i know for sure don't. the rest i'm not all that sure of. i don't know where you grabbed 25% from, but it's probably not acurate. |
death to false metal. |
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HotKoreanGirl
Chatterbox
130 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2005 : 2:38:27 PM
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Yes it's true--Miles Davis slammed Heroin, Mozart was a lush, The beatles (though they'd have you believe they stopped it later in their careers) puffed the magic dragon and did other stuff, I need not name all contemporary rockers using and abusing them. Face it, throughout history much music and art was influenced by drug use. But oddly, most of it doesn't require drug use to appreciate. Yet some does, namely Radiohead, in my opinion. Dan P., we need to get high one of these days...then I think some of your conceptions may shift--even slightly. Hey, we might also find Radiohead amazing.
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2005 : 5:41:57 PM
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Miles has stated that although heroin was popular on the scene back then and especially amongst up and commers that saw people like bird and miles himself using it and thought to themselves that if they did heroin it would somehow help them play... Well Miles said Heroin didn't do anything but destroy people. It's simply amazing that they were able to make the music they did while in that lifestyle. They made good music in spite of it and not because of it.
Most Jazz musicians I know or have read about today are all trying to be as healthy as possible, and while once the scene used to be to see how fucked up you can get it's now about playing at your highest level and seeing how long you can do it and be in perfect shape. I know there are still a lot of alcoholic musicians and such and ones that use marijuana and such, and it's higher than most proffesions, but I think that has to do more with people tyring to find a way to cope with the vicous fucking cycle of performing and analyzing your playing and always feeling like you need to get better and such. It's a fucking trip.
Me personally I've played drunk and high and all fucked up and it doesn't really help my playing. The only thing I think you can say that drugs do is put you in a different state of mind for a period of time which is a kind of cool thing because it's like an instantly different perception. It's a different way to feel music as your brain is in a different chemical state. I wouldn't say better, but just different. I won't play fucked up though now, because I think it has a negitive effect on my playing. That's just me though.
A sign that you are addicted to something is when you feel you need it, to be creative or whatever, and that's problematic. Drugs are fun to mess around with, but they don't take you to a higher level musically. They may however alter your perspective on things which is kind of cool. |
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Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2005 : 7:36:46 PM
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Agreed Zach. I don't play while drunk ever. But to be honest, sometimes when I smoke, I am brilliant. I only say this because I have recorded myself, and have recieved many compliments on my improv. It just inspires me sometimes; I can't explain it.
Dan P. : We have to meet at some point in our lives. You kill me daily. Maybe at my personal TR concert I am trying to throw. |
http://db.etree.org/hopefulrollingwaves/ < My Trading List |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2005 : 10:54:03 PM
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I used to play high a lot while I was just playing solo and acoustic and I mean really high. It didn't really hinder my playing much in that situation and I actually enjoyed it, but I rarely play in that situation now. I'm always playing with a group and mostly jazz stuff that's modulating like crazy and if I'm more than just a little high I have a hard time keeping up because I just enjoy my sound too much and I usually play more atonal and piss everyone off. So I don't play high much anymore, but if I do I make sure to not get too high.
The last time I played drunk we had to record and although I probably was swinging harder I didn't feel very into the music. |
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HotKoreanGirl
Chatterbox
130 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2005 : 5:35:45 PM
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I'm in agreement...playing on drugs never seems to work that great for me...alcohol especially--really messes things up. Listening on drugs can do wonders. But not cool if it's what's required to make music good.
My 13 year old nephew just got into pot and radiohead--big coincidence. Another soul affixed like a barnacle to radiohead's enormous fan base of pot smoking puberty boys. (and girls).
"I am so SAAAAAAAAAAADDDDDDDDD and I want to DIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEE!"
--thom yorke |
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Jamie M
Chatterbox
Canada
404 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2005 : 10:50:31 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dan p.
from the way you put it, it sounds like drugs don't "enhance" anything at all, but just make you think they're better than they really are.
Drugs enhance the euphoria you would normally obtain from something. Therefore, in most cases, makes you often perceive things as better than they are.
I don't understand your absolute defiance of drugs in this matter.
If spices make your food taste better, why wouldn't you add them? Or at least try. I see it the same way for music and drugs. |
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HotKoreanGirl
Chatterbox
130 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2005 : 10:42:48 AM
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Great food analogy Jamie--Yes, to continue what Jamie was saying in my own words, I think of Salt and what it does for foods.
A female friend of mine loves to make elaborate flavorful food, but she never adds salt, or salty ingredients, so for all the complexity she is creating, most of the flavors never come out the way they should, and I am always asking her for the salt. Personally, I'd rather the food was seasoned properly enough so I wouldn't have to add salt. When I cook, I try to add just enough salt that the food isn't salty, but enough that it's real tasty.
Much the same with Music Dan, I feel like maybe you could stand to add some drugs into the mix--not because you need to, but just maybe to try it and see how it feels. It certainly can help certain music seem less bland--one band in particular as you know...but seriously--you should spice it up!
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Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2005 : 07:57:12 AM
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Tell a non-smoker to smoke pot to try it out? AHAHAHA What is this, 7th grade? That certainly won't fly with Dan. Nice try though. And I am pretty sure Thom never said that.
He did write this tho.
A Reminder
If I get old, I will not give in
But if I do, remind me of this.
Remind me that, once I was free,
Once I was cool, once I was me.
And if I sat down, and crossed my arms,
Hold me to this song.
Knock me out, smash out my brains,
If I take a chair, start to talk shit...
If I get old, remind me of this:
That night we kissed, and I really meant it.
Whatever happens, if we're still speaking.
Pick up the phone, play me this song. |
http://db.etree.org/hopefulrollingwaves/ < My Trading List |
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Radiohead sucks
