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Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
 Posted - 04/01/2005 : 2:29:13 PM
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This is upsetting, but also pisses me off. My boss' wife told me I was 'fucked up' this morning cause I said it wasn't such a big deal. Meanwhile, she's a posterchild for materialismo, but anyway...
There have been PLENTY more people in our recent history other than this guy that have done more for humanity. Sure he's talked about peace quite a bit. This guy has never really dealt with adversity however. As far as I'm concerned, it's pretty easy to sit up a hill with a bible in hand and preach peace. The church has a history of being passive when it comes to world affairs. They'll condemn or agree with positions, but that's about as far as it goes.
Anyway...Mother Theresa, Ghandi, and our thankfully living friend Noam C...they rocked it out. This Pope? Eh...always sad to see someone go, but 24hr broadcasts on CNN? Just for ratings, I assure you. |
http://db.etree.org/hopefulrollingwaves/ < My Trading List |
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KevinLesko
Alien Abductee
3712 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2005 : 2:48:17 PM
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| I'm going to hell for this one... but I was kinda halfway hoping that he would pass away on Easter... just for irony's sake. |
god
Kevin |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2005 : 3:01:44 PM
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what's the florida state vegetable?
terry schiavo. |
death to false metal. |
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therippa
Fluffy-Esque
Kazakhstan
1099 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2005 : 3:43:39 PM
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I agree with you HRW, and I laugh with you dan p.
I've always been a bigger fan of the space pope anyways...
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Aspiring to Be Fluffy-Esque an Alien Abductee! |
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Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
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Arthen
Alien Abductee
USA
4845 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2005 : 5:09:24 PM
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| As popes go, he was a pretty good one. |
Steve Hackett: "I'm my own opening act, you see."
Tim (before "Faceoff"): "Peace, love....and SEX!"
cbenc41@hotmail.com |
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Muskrat
Chatterbox
USA
266 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2005 : 10:39:46 PM
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| Wonder if they'll yank his holy feeding tube? In other news, Frank Perdue, our local celebrity, died today. |
"You know, if you live long enough, eventually you're gonna die." -Words of wisdom from my dad |
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{=HTG=}
Alien Abductee
USA
2342 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2005 : 02:22:27 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by dan p.
what's the florida state vegetable?
terry schiavo.
Oh . . . wow . . . . |
'HTG, are you a cute girl?'
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PJK
Alien Abductee
USA
4159 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2005 : 09:14:40 AM
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I am not Catholic, but Pope John Paul was one of the greatest Popes of the last century. He was (is) a brilliant man, speaks 8 or 9 languages, understood first hand what Nazi occupation did, he loved the theater, majored in theater for awhile, and he loved the arts.
I know it gets tiring hearing about him 24/7 but remember, that is not his fault, that is the news media that does that. Same with Teri Schaivo.
BTW, Teri came from the Philadelphia area where I live. Two brothers of her husband Michael live within a few miles of me. I was horrified by what the media did to them.
Everyone in the media condemed Michael, but they failed to see just how much love he had for Teri. Believe me, no amount of money would make anyone fight for someone for all those years. He got nothing but grief and shit from her parents. It would have been easier to walk away, and not only that, he could have walked away a VERY rich man and no one would have heard of this case. He fought out of love.
The circus that came out of all this was horrible and the little bit of respect I had left for GW left when he hopped that plane for DC for one woman who happens to live in brother Jebs state! Why can't he act that fast to save the thousands of people who die every year because our health care/insurance system sucks! Or to put an end to the war in Iraq? Or to boost our economy?
BTW, if he got his way and the courts overturned the decision and replaced her feeding tube, you could bet that Roe Vrs Wade would soon be overturned too!
Sorry to vent, but damn that makes me so mad! |
"It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!"Friedrich Nietzsche |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2005 : 11:05:11 AM
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| terry schiavo was not news. she died long before any of this.. and what's more, she did this to herself and everyone else. her condition wasn't the result of accident. she wasn't a victim of anything. it was self-inflicted. this is what happens when you purge yourself of the things your body needs. why all the pity for her? it was her choice to start throwing up. |
death to false metal. |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2005 : 12:19:01 PM
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| Besides Terry and Micheal were Best Friends Forever. |
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Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2005 : 1:16:58 PM
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Yah, you make a choice to start booting up your food. And it IS sick, but it's not a sickness, at least I don't think so. It's all about denial of self, poor self esteem, and a general lack of motivation.
Believe me, my first GF of 2 years turned out to be bulemic. I didn't look for it at first...why would you? But after about 6 months I was realizing, as soon as we ate out anywhere, she's scurry off to the bathroom. A nice girl, but clearly fucked in the head. These people are not victims of their environment. I have a hard time sympathizing with someone who seeks to undermine their own life, whether they know it or not. |
http://db.etree.org/hopefulrollingwaves/ < My Trading List |
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KevinLesko
Alien Abductee
3712 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2005 : 3:04:57 PM
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Well, it looks like he's a dead.
So neither myself, nor my girlfriend are religious, and we were talking about this last night and wondering, given the beliefs of Catholics, shouldn't they not be as upset that he is dead? I mean, if anyone is for sure going to heaven, it'd be the Pope, and that would put his closer to God I would think. |
god
Kevin |
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Arthen
Alien Abductee
USA
4845 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2005 : 3:59:37 PM
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| Letting go is much easier said than done. |
Steve Hackett: "I'm my own opening act, you see."
Tim (before "Faceoff"): "Peace, love....and SEX!"
cbenc41@hotmail.com |
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GuitarGuy305
Alien Abductee
USA
2007 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2005 : 6:58:06 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Hopeful Rolling Waves
Yah, you make a choice to start booting up your food. And it IS sick, but it's not a sickness, at least I don't think so. It's all about denial of self, poor self esteem, and a general lack of motivation.
Believe me, my first GF of 2 years turned out to be bulemic. I didn't look for it at first...why would you? But after about 6 months I was realizing, as soon as we ate out anywhere, she's scurry off to the bathroom. A nice girl, but clearly fucked in the head. These people are not victims of their environment. I have a hard time sympathizing with someone who seeks to undermine their own life, whether they know it or not.
I dated a girl that was bulemic as well. Same situation, we would eat out, and each time before we'd leave the restaurant, even if we were just going back to my place or hers, she'd need to stop at the bathroom.
I finally invited her over to my small apartment at the time, where you could hear someone taking a dump in the next apartment, and we ordered pizza and were going to watch a movie. After we ate, she went to the bathroom, and vomited. I heard her, so I asked her if she was alright. She said something upset her stomach, and I said it couldn't have been the pizza, because we were eating the same one, and I was fine. She tried to say she had eaten something earlier, but I could tell she was lying.
It was pretty much downhill from there. I told her I was willing to help her, do whatever she needed me to do do get her well. But she did not think she wasn't well in the first place. We broke up basically because she wouldn't talk about it with me, and I wanted to help her.
Anyway, to the subject at hand. He's dead...eh....okay. What's on TV tonight?
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2005 : 8:23:48 PM
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He's dead.
Did no one watch the last south park? As far as making fun of the whole situation with schiavo, that was the best. |
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Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2005 : 11:17:55 AM
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| I heard about that, the South Park thing, it's one of the few reasons I wish I still watched TV, they know how to have a sense of humor about everything. Fucking media, what a pile of horseshit. And they talk about desensitization of society...fuck a duck. |
http://db.etree.org/hopefulrollingwaves/ < My Trading List |
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Arthen
Alien Abductee
USA
4845 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2005 : 3:26:13 PM
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All Hail Pope Benedict!
The pope who was a member of the Hitler Jugen! I've heard this guy is going to be pretty conservative, should be interesting to see what he does. |
Steve Hackett: "I'm my own opening act, you see."
Tim (before "Faceoff"): "Peace, love....and SEX!"
cbenc41@hotmail.com |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2005 : 5:18:51 PM
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| maybe he'll make it so all the fucking faggots will start going to hell like they deserve again. i'm so fucking sick of them corrupting our youth with their faggotry, and the catholic church just sits there and goes "no, you'll be ok. . .i guess." bullshit. as far as i'm concerned, they don't make enough fences for these freaks. also, most homos are most likely terrorists since they hate our freedom that we're denying them because they don't deserve it. they're the devil's work, a hideous mockery of man used to spite god. |
death to false metal. |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2005 : 10:45:45 PM
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| Dan I hope your joking, but I can never tell with you. |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2005 : 11:11:55 PM
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| there's nothing funny about deviant homosexual girl-men and bulldyke lesbians subverting our young. but ultimately it really doesn't matter what i think of them, because even of the courts are too liberal-infested to do it, god is going to judge them guilty. guilty of tearing away america's moral fabric. guilty of going against god's will. guilty of going against nature. guilt of being fags. they are shut out from his kingdom. |
death to false metal. |
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Arthen
Alien Abductee
USA
4845 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2005 : 11:14:35 PM
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| What's sad is that people actually think that way. |
Steve Hackett: "I'm my own opening act, you see."
Tim (before "Faceoff"): "Peace, love....and SEX!"
cbenc41@hotmail.com |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2005 : 11:14:37 PM
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| of course i'm kidding. what does it matter to me who someone has sex with? |
death to false metal. |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2005 : 11:16:56 PM
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| sad? it might be the funniest thing i can think of. it's really right up there with maddox and penny-aracde in terms of humor. maybe it's just because my mind cannot deal with it in terms of seriousness. |
death to false metal. |
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Arthen
Alien Abductee
USA
4845 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2005 : 11:47:05 PM
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| Penny-Arcade and Maddox are the balls. |
Steve Hackett: "I'm my own opening act, you see."
Tim (before "Faceoff"): "Peace, love....and SEX!"
cbenc41@hotmail.com |
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rubylith
Fluffy-Esque
1915 Posts |
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tericee
Alien Abductee
USA
2579 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2005 : 11:10:29 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by rubylith
wow that turned crazy...
so yea, new pope...he was a nazi...
http://infowars.com/articles/world/pope_ratzinger_new_pope.htm
It doesn't sound like he was a very good Nazi, though.
He joined the Hitler Youth aged 14, shortly after membership was made compulsory in 1941. He quickly won a dispensation on account of his training at a seminary. “Ratzinger was only briefly a member of the Hitler Youth and not an enthusiastic one,” concluded John Allen, his biographer.
He deserted in April 1944 and spent a few weeks in a prisoner of war camp.
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2005 : 10:04:21 PM
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| I hope in 60 years or so people look back and think he was a republican, just like people today say he was a nazi. |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2005 : 12:46:18 AM
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well here's the thing. he was in hitler youth. and yeah, it was compulsory. but, you know. hitler youth. i'm not calling him a nazi, i just think that they probably shouldn't have gone with the guy who was part of that specific organization. there were other choices, as i recall. i really think there should be a rule. you know how if you're not born in the us, you can't be president? well, it should be that if you've ever heiled evil, you can't be pope. it doesn't mean you'd be a bad pope. it doesn't mean your a nazi. just like being from another country doesn't mean you'd be a bad president. it's just the tough shit rule.
it still confuses me how he won. this man, regardless of why, was in the hitler youth. the others were not. it seems clear. |
death to false metal. |
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Jiyra
Chatterbox
124 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2005 : 02:22:06 AM
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| all hail the space pope! |
silly girl, sanity is for boys |
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Erich
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1427 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2005 : 02:29:03 AM
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Jesus was a martyr, or "One who chooses to suffer death rather than renounce religious principles". Here's Ratty, who at even his young age, lived a life dedicated, basically, to Jesus. Yet, when faced with "manditory" enrollment in Nazi organizations and millitary units, things that are 100% against everything that Jesus ever said or stood for, rather than die for what he believes he says "well, I was forced". Why? Well, Jesus supposedly died for all the sins of human kind, but these guys were the fucking NAZIS! you cant say no to them!
So now, decades later, we get a pope that will do his best to make sure conservative repression is alive and well in the Catholic church.
thank you Jesus! |
~pw'oikr
~( "> |
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Arthen
Alien Abductee
USA
4845 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2005 : 03:55:57 AM
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You don't need to be a martyr to be a good Christian or to follow Jesus for that matter. Everybody fucks up, it's moving away from it that counts.
This pope isn't even going to be around very long, so who cares. |
Steve Hackett: "I'm my own opening act, you see."
Tim (before "Faceoff"): "Peace, love....and SEX!"
cbenc41@hotmail.com |
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tericee
Alien Abductee
USA
2579 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2005 : 06:49:31 AM
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All popes are human; all humans make mistakes.
Jesus was also a big fan of forgiveness. |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2005 : 11:01:52 AM
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| yeah, look. it doesn't make him a bad person or anything. i'm not saying he's a monster. i'm sure he's a good guy who believes in jesus and his teachings and all that. all i'm saying is he heiled hitler. whether it was just a token heil because he had to or a full fledged "holy shit i love hitler" heil is wholly irrelevent. the fact that he did it at all is what counts. |
death to false metal. |
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enthuTIMsiast
Alien Abductee
6990 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2005 : 11:15:08 AM
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Oh man I'd laugh so hard if this guy lives to be 120. "Transitional" pope my ass. That'd be awesome.
So I don't get all this pope business, anyway. Is he supposed to be infallable? Do Catholics actually pray TO him, instead of to God through Jesus? If so, doesn't the bible say something contrary to that? What do Catholics use as reference material for their religion? More than just the Bible, I guess.
Bah, I guess there's too much sarcasm here to get any sort of decent reply... But I'm curious, anyway. |
Tim Reynolds Downloads
I am not the albatross of love, I am the human ellipsis. I am dot dot dot. - Leo Kottke
I hate beating people over the head with anything. We can all make up our own minds. What we don’t have is enough music. More music please. - Leo Kottke |
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Kenneth
Chatterbox
218 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2005 : 11:26:36 AM
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I may be completely thrown under the bus for this statement but I don't care because this is my belief. First of all, Jesus is much more than a martyr; He's the Savior of the world. And He didn't supposedly die for the sins of man; He absolutely did. You don't go and allow mere men to nail you to a tree for the fun of it. No one took His life, He layed it down for us. He is the atoning sacrifice for us all. Of course it's up to each individual to believe that and accept it or reject it. Jesus is also a perfect gentlemen by the fact that He doesn't force His salvation on you. It's a gift. So, before we all start pointing our boney finger of rightesnous at the Pope we should look at ourselves first. Just because he's the Pope doesn't mean he's without sin. We all sin and fall short of the glory of God.
Matthew 7:3
“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? |
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tericee
Alien Abductee
USA
2579 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2005 : 12:07:57 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by enthuTIMsiast
Oh man I'd laugh so hard if this guy lives to be 120. "Transitional" pope my ass. That'd be awesome.
So I don't get all this pope business, anyway. Is he supposed to be infallable? Do Catholics actually pray TO him, instead of to God through Jesus? If so, doesn't the bible say something contrary to that? What do Catholics use as reference material for their religion? More than just the Bible, I guess.
Bah, I guess there's too much sarcasm here to get any sort of decent reply... But I'm curious, anyway.
I'm not one of the sarcastic ones, am I? (Not usually anyway.)
I don't *think* people pray to the Pope, but it is entirely possible. I have read that there are many who are trying to get Pope John Paul II canonized/sainted (as many previous popes have been). If this happens, then many Catholics could very well pray to him. It is accepted practice in the Catholic church to pray to saints, who they believe can intercede on their behalf to God the Father.
Here's what I was able to find out about this entirely confusing subject:
The Catholic Encyclopedia (online) says
quote:
The Vatican Council has defined as "a divinely revealed dogma" that "the Roman Pontiff, when he speaks ex cathedra -- that is, when in the exercise of his office as pastor and teacher of all Christians he defines, by virtue of his supreme Apostolic authority, a doctrine of faith or morals to be held by the whole Church -- is, by reason of the Divine assistance promised to him in blessed Peter, possessed of that infallibility with which the Divine Redeemer wished His Church to be endowed in defining doctrines of faith and morals; and consequently that such definitions of the Roman Pontiff are irreformable of their own nature (ex sese) and not by reason of the Church's consent"
So then, what is "a divinely revealed dogma?"
quote:
...truths revealed by God formally, but only implicitly, are dogmas in the strict sense when proposed or defined by the Church. Such, for example, are the doctrines of Transubstantiation, papal infallibility, the Immaculate Conception, some of the Church's teaching about the Saviour, the sacraments, etc. All doctrines defined by the Church as being contained in revelation are understood to be formally revealed, explicitly or implicitly. It is a dogma of faith that the Church is infallible in defining these two classes of revealed truths; and the deliberate denial of one of these dogmas certainly involves the sin of heresy.
The Catholic doctrine of intercession and invocation was set forth by the Council of Trent (which met in 1545 to address Martin Luther's theses):
quote:
...the saints who reign together with Christ offer up their own prayers to God for men. It is good and useful suppliantly to invoke them, and to have recourse to their prayers, aid, and help for obtaining benefits from God, through His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, Who alone is our Redeemer and Saviour. Those persons think impiously who deny that the Saints, who enjoy eternal happiness in heaven, are to be invoked; or who assert either that they do not pray for men, or that the invocation of them to pray for each of us is idolatry, or that it is repugnant to the word of God, and is opposed to the honour of the one Mediator of God and men, Jesus Christ (Sess. XXV).
Here's my sarcastic part: God told the Pope he's infallible. The Pope is infallible when speaking on the subject of the Church so it must be true.
p.s. Go Kenneth! He reminds me of GRock who hasn't posted here in eons. |
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enthuTIMsiast
Alien Abductee
6990 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2005 : 12:46:24 PM
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| But where in the bible does God say the pope is infallible? Where in the Bible does God even mention the pope? |
Tim Reynolds Downloads
I am not the albatross of love, I am the human ellipsis. I am dot dot dot. - Leo Kottke
I hate beating people over the head with anything. We can all make up our own minds. What we don’t have is enough music. More music please. - Leo Kottke |
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rubylith
Fluffy-Esque
1915 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2005 : 12:46:25 PM
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yea...
space pope rules |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2005 : 12:55:56 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by enthuTIMsiast
But where in the bible does God say the pope is infallible? Where in the Bible does God even mention the pope?
When the bible was written there was no such thing as a pope so obviously there is nothing in it that even mentions the pope. It's funny too. Most of my family are mormon and their leader is infallable for anything he says about the church. Except for he's said some stupid stuff before and I point out the stupid stuff past leaders have said with the rascism and all and they are still like oh well I believe.
For someone to tell me they believed christ died for their sins is one thing, but to say that you have to be catholic or that you need to go give your money to some church and let them build up some huge power structure just makes no sense to me at all. I mean the history of the catholic church is less then clean. Why anyone who felt they are sinners and they need to worship god would actually believe someone when they said that if the follow catholism or whatever they will be saved is beyond me. I mean how can there be some holy church when there has just been coruption upon coruption down the lines of the popes? |
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Arthen
Alien Abductee
USA
4845 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2005 : 1:04:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kenneth
I may be completely thrown under the bus for this statement but I don't care because this is my belief. First of all, Jesus is much more than a martyr; He's the Savior of the world. And He didn't supposedly die for the sins of man; He absolutely did. You don't go and allow mere men to nail you to a tree for the fun of it. No one took His life, He layed it down for us. He is the atoning sacrifice for us all. Of course it's up to each individual to believe that and accept it or reject it. Jesus is also a perfect gentlemen by the fact that He doesn't force His salvation on you. It's a gift. So, before we all start pointing our boney finger of rightesnous at the Pope we should look at ourselves first. Just because he's the Pope doesn't mean he's without sin. We all sin and fall short of the glory of God.
Matthew 7:3
“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?
I totally respect your ability to be so forthright with your beliefs, everyone else is on this board, so I'm glad you can be too. Don't worry about getting torn up for your beliefs, we won't do that here. More power to you man, for what you believe. As long as you have conviction and sincerity, that makes you okay in my book. |
Steve Hackett: "I'm my own opening act, you see."
Tim (before "Faceoff"): "Peace, love....and SEX!"
cbenc41@hotmail.com |
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Kenneth
Chatterbox
218 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2005 : 1:54:52 PM
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| Thanks Arthen. I appreciate your kind words. |
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enthuTIMsiast
Alien Abductee
6990 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2005 : 2:31:46 PM
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| yeah Kenneth, I think it's cool too. Too bad I did't know this in Huntsville. Don't know what that'd have changed, but you know... perspective. Sounds like we think the same, in any event. |
Tim Reynolds Downloads
I am not the albatross of love, I am the human ellipsis. I am dot dot dot. - Leo Kottke
I hate beating people over the head with anything. We can all make up our own minds. What we don’t have is enough music. More music please. - Leo Kottke |
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tericee
Alien Abductee
USA
2579 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2005 : 2:39:45 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by enthuTIMsiast
But where in the bible does God say the pope is infallible? Where in the Bible does God even mention the pope?
According to Catholic doctrine, Peter was the first Pope. When Jesus told Peter he was "the rock" it is interpreted to mean the foundation (or head) of the church.
quote:
Matthew 16:17 And Jesus answered him, "You are blessed, Simon son of Jonah, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but my Father in heaven! 16:18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overpower it. 16:19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth will have been bound in heaven, and whatever you release on earth will have been released in heaven."
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enthuTIMsiast
Alien Abductee
6990 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2005 : 3:00:56 PM
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| That's a pretty big extrapolation from what the Bible actually says, isn't it? |
Tim Reynolds Downloads
I am not the albatross of love, I am the human ellipsis. I am dot dot dot. - Leo Kottke
I hate beating people over the head with anything. We can all make up our own minds. What we don’t have is enough music. More music please. - Leo Kottke |
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Kenneth
Chatterbox
218 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2005 : 3:04:18 PM
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I'm not sure about the Catholic doctrine but with all due respect I don't agree that the bible says Peter is the head of the church. He says to Peter... "on this rock I will build my church." Actually, Christ is the head of the church and we are the body. Here are 2 scriptures that I know of that state this.
Colossians 1:18
"He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything."
Ephesians 5:23
For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body. |
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enthuTIMsiast
Alien Abductee
6990 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2005 : 3:17:03 PM
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FWIW, Kenneth, you're disagreeing with Catholic doctrine, not Teri, who was only the messenger. Just wanted to make sure that was clear... (That is, the "all due respect" wasn't necessary.    )
But yeah, that seems to me to be a very small part of the teachings in the bible to base a religion on. But that's just me. And maybe that's one reason I'm not Catholic.
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Tim Reynolds Downloads
I am not the albatross of love, I am the human ellipsis. I am dot dot dot. - Leo Kottke
I hate beating people over the head with anything. We can all make up our own minds. What we don’t have is enough music. More music please. - Leo Kottke |
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Kenneth
Chatterbox
218 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2005 : 3:25:52 PM
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| Ok well, I don't mind disagreeing with the Catholic doctrine I just didn't want Teri pissed at me. But I did notice she said "according to the Catholic doctrine". Since I'm not Catholic I'm not familiar with their practices or doctrines. Basically what I'm trying to say is... I think I'll go on what the Bible says. |
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Erich
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1427 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2005 : 4:03:54 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dan p.
yeah, look. it doesn't make him a bad person or anything. i'm not saying he's a monster. i'm sure he's a good guy who believes in jesus and his teachings and all that. all i'm saying is he heiled hitler. whether it was just a token heil because he had to or a full fledged "holy shit i love hitler" heil is wholly irrelevent. the fact that he did it at all is what counts.
Yeah, I think this is whats bothering me too. I mean, did it slip past the Pope Job Aplication?
Previous Job Referances:
How Long Have You Been A Cardinal:
Have You Ever Smoked Pot?
Do You Love Jesus:
HEIL HITLER (Yes/No)? |
~pw'oikr
~( "> |
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Robin
Yak Addict
USA
598 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2005 : 8:33:50 PM
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| Yeah, I find it a bit disturbing too. I mean was he kind of,just sort of a Nazi? I don't follow any organized religion myself, so who am I to say? Peace, Robin |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2005 : 8:35:22 PM
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a real gentleman, is he? doesn't force his salvation on us. oh no. not at all. of course, if we don't accept his "gift" that mean we go directly to hell and suffer for all eternity. yeah, that's real generous of him. it reminds me of this time i gave a gift certificate for a really great resturant to a friend, but i told him if he didn't use it i'd come by while he slept and dump acid on his face.
it may be that christ is our lord and savior. i've never seen any real evidance that says jesus was not the son of god. nor have i seen any that said he was. so really it's up in the air as far as i'm concerned. but if it is as you say, i don't see his salvation as a gift. i see it as an ultimatum. a cruel and heartless ultimatum as set forth by a demanding, arrogant deity who, for all his faults, cannot be denied. |
death to false metal. |
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Jiyra
Chatterbox
124 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2005 : 8:47:31 PM
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[/quote]
When the bible was written there was no such thing as a pope so obviously there is nothing in it that even mentions the pope. It's funny too. Most of my family are mormon and their leader is infallable for anything he says about the church. Except for he's said some stupid stuff before and I point out the stupid stuff past leaders have said with the rascism and all and they are still like oh well I believe.
For someone to tell me they believed christ died for their sins is one thing, but to say that you have to be catholic or that you need to go give your money to some church and let them build up some huge power structure just makes no sense to me at all. I mean the history of the catholic church is less then clean. Why anyone who felt they are sinners and they need to worship god would actually believe someone when they said that if the follow catholism or whatever they will be saved is beyond me. I mean how can there be some holy church when there has just been coruption upon coruption down the lines of the popes?
[/quote]
a couple of things...the bible was written before and after jesus's birth and death, in fact, much the bible as we know it today, was not laid out in it's whole until about the reign of Constantine-you know the Holy Roman Empire, so there was such thing as a pope when some of the books were written, and in fact, there are even a few books of the bible that the catholic church refuses to release because it contradicts what the Vatican believes--and one of the "troubles" as it were, with religion, is that belief itself is infallible, you can impeach as many men as you want, but it doesn't stop the cycle, now don't get me wrong, Christ is the man, but I have some serious problems with the catholic masses, including pretty much everything you guys have mentioned thusfar, praying to saints, praying to Mary, I sometimes wonder if someone took down all the crosses in all the churches in all of Rome-which are many times placed off center of the virgin mary-would anyone notice? or care? bah, I say! |
silly girl, sanity is for boys |
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therippa
Fluffy-Esque
Kazakhstan
1099 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2005 : 8:52:53 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dan p.
it reminds me of this time i gave a gift certificate for a really great resturant to a friend, but i told him if he didn't use it i'd come by while he slept and dump acid on his face.
I wouldn't put that past you, dan p. |
Aspiring to Be Fluffy-Esque an Alien Abductee! |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2005 : 9:05:13 PM
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| i'd to point out that catholics do not pray directly to saints and to mary. what they do is pray through them to god. they don't worship them as they worship god. they're like a sort of middle-man, i guess. |
death to false metal. |
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tericee
Alien Abductee
USA
2579 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2005 : 03:03:24 AM
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I think Catholics *do* pray directly to Mary and the saints. Take for example, the Hail Mary:
quote:
HAIL MARY
Hail Mary full of grace
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou amongst
women and blessed is the
fruit of thy womb Jesus.
Holy Mary Mother of God,
pray for us sinners now
and at the hour of our death.
Amen
This prayer is specifically addressed to Mary, but its purpose is two-fold: 1) to praise God for the wonderful things he has done in and through her; and 2) to ask for her intercession. In the last line, Mary is asked to pray to God on behalf of the sinner.
The Catholic church specifically teaches however, that this prayer is not to be confused with worship. The explanation for this is that the verb "to pray" means "to ask." The English word "pray" originally simply meant "ask," and so when one would ask God for something, one was praying to God, and in the same way when one asked another to ask on your behalf, you were praying to them to pray for you. If you read Shakespeare, you've probably seen examples of this like "prithee," as in "Prithee, fetch the book" or "Prithee, do tell." "Prithee" is a contraction of "I pray thee" or, more contemporarily, "I ask you."
So I think we agree in principal, Dan.
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Fluffy
Administrator
USA
10739 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2005 : 10:30:45 AM
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That fucking pope!! Pointy headed bastard!!! (anyone?)
Zachmozach asked:quote:
Did no one watch the last south park? As far as making fun of the whole situation with schiavo, that was the best.
My fave part was where they pointed out that "pulling the plug" wasn't anymore playing God than "plugging it in" in the first place. AWESOME! Blessed be the hypocrites! For they know not what they do. |
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy         
"THE MUSIC BUSINESS IS A CRUEL AND SHALLOW MONEY TRENCH-- A LONG PLASTIC HALLWAY WHERE THIEVES AND PIMPS RUN FREE AND GOOD MEN DIE LIKE DOGS. THERE'S ALSO A NEGATIVE SIDE..." -Hunter S. Thompson |
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enthuTIMsiast
Alien Abductee
6990 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2005 : 11:11:13 AM
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| Kenneth what happened to your reply? |
Tim Reynolds Downloads
I am not the albatross of love, I am the human ellipsis. I am dot dot dot. - Leo Kottke
I hate beating people over the head with anything. We can all make up our own minds. What we don’t have is enough music. More music please. - Leo Kottke |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2005 : 11:18:08 AM
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| it would seem we do. what a remarkable thing. |
death to false metal. |
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Kenneth
Chatterbox
218 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2005 : 11:28:38 AM
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I was trying to add something to it and somehow lost the whole thing. My comp started freezing up. Crap!!!!
By the way... Jason, I sent you an email yesterday to the address you have listed here on your members page. Did you get that? |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2005 : 11:30:29 AM
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| that's the worst. and it always happens when you've got something really good to say, too. and by the time the computer starts working right, you don't feel like typing all that out again. |
death to false metal. |
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Erich
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1427 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2005 : 11:34:02 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by dan p.
that's the worst. and it always happens when you've got something really good to say, too. and by the time the computer starts working right, you don't feel like typing all that out again.
I tend to, right before sending a message, hit ctrl+a ctrl+c to select all and copy. that way of the comp fucks up, I have all of my reply. I can just past it to a txt file and come back later. I do that here because of flood control, and the fact that if your user name isnt logged in it effectualy deletes the last message you wrote. |
~pw'oikr
~( "> |
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Kenneth
Chatterbox
218 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2005 : 11:44:17 AM
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Dan P, I was trying to reply to your comment. So... I'll try this again.
I'm going to have to disagree with you on this. Salvation is not forced on us. It most definitely is a "gift". We all deserve to go to hell in the first place because we are all sinners and no sin is allowed in Heaven. But because of Christ we may enter into His kingdom because He has taken our sins upon himself. Jesus experienced the wrath of God on the cross so we don't have to if we choose to. Men are saved by grace, not of works, which is a "gift" from God. And if you haven't seen any real evidence for or against Jesus being the savior of the world then just read the bible. I hope you take more than that argument when you stand before God. I do not envy any man who will stand before Jesus on the day of judgement and not know him as their personal savior. But hey, thats just me. This could go on and on though, I'll never change your mind and you'll never change mine. So we can agree to disagree.
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2005 : 12:00:52 PM
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i think i've said this before, but it might have been someone else.
i've always been hesitant to argue with someone on the grounds of faith, simply because i don't understand how the mind that operates on faith works. it's outside my realm of experience. i find it sort of curious. frankly, i'm impressed by it. here you have an eternal soul, and you're trusting it to something you don't know, but only believe. that takes balls that, honestly, i don't even have.
inevitably, like you did, they say "the bible is proof." my mind cannot accept the bible as proof. the bible, to me, is a book that sets itself forth as undeniable truth, with some good ideas and some patently bad ones. anyone can show as good a proof. someone could write a book and say "god told me to right this, and it's the opposite of the bible." and to me, that would have as much merit to me as the bible itself, which does the same thing. to tell me the bible is proof is to assume i'm operating in the same basic belief system as you. if i don't accept the idea a creator god, how can i accept the bible as proof of that god, which alledgedly comes from god himself?
if i stand before god in judgement, and condemns me for not taking his gift, i'd probably walk away of my own accord.
but you're right. it's kind of silly to get into a debate about. |
death to false metal. |
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Erich
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1427 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2005 : 12:13:26 PM
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the problem is, a mind that works on faith doesnt work on logic and rationality. Im not saying this condecendingly, in case there are religious folks here, but I think its ironic that creationism attempts to explain man's rational thought by stating something that goes against that very concept.
The bible is truth because its the word of god, the word of god is truth because the bible says it is. So at the end of the day, logic and rationality are thrown out the window for emotionaly based faith. |
~pw'oikr
~( "> |
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Kenneth
Chatterbox
218 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2005 : 12:20:20 PM
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The essence of faith is believing in the unseen. Plus, I don't just believe and hope... I believe and know. Please indulge me as I attempt to explain why or how I can be so certain.
1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that YOU MAY KNOW THAT YOU HAVE ETERNAL LIFE.
That verse is as plan as it gets.
John 20:29
Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
What seperates the bible apart from every other book ever written is the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of prophecies which without the divine intervention of God would be impossible. Isaiah prophecies about the birth, life, and death of Jesus Christ in detail. The book of Isaiah was written around 900 years before the birth of Christ. And this is just one example of many. But another reason to believe in the bible is the fact that God does not lie.
Titus 1:2
“In hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began.”
Hebrews 6:18
"It is impossible for God to lie.”
But like I said, I won't change your mind and you won't change my mind. If you don't believe in God or the bible then obviously we differ a great deal. I'm just glad we can respectively disagree and not roll each other under the bus for it. Just because someone has a different opinion than I do doesn't mean I have any less respect for that person. Once you get into topics on religion then people tend to take offense. The bottom line is we can all believe what we choose and in the end everything will be revealed. |
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tericee
Alien Abductee
USA
2579 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2005 : 12:34:09 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kenneth
Ok well, I don't mind disagreeing with the Catholic doctrine I just didn't want Teri pissed at me. But I did notice she said "according to the Catholic doctrine". Since I'm not Catholic I'm not familiar with their practices or doctrines. Basically what I'm trying to say is... I think I'll go on what the Bible says.
Have no fear! I don't agree with Catholic doctrine either.
p.s. Faith is being sure of what we hope for and it is certain of what we do not see. (forgot the verse reference, sorry) |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2005 : 1:43:07 PM
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ah, i see. you're certain the bible is true because you were told that the bible is the word of god. then it would stand to reason that you hold 1 john 5:11-13 to be true, because it's in the bible, which you were told is the truth. also, i wouldn't say that the word of god is true because of the bible. i would say the word of god is true, because god said it. it seems to me if god says it, chances are he's not jerking you around. and even if he was, you'd still have to accept it as truth, because you're not going to say "i think you're lying to me, lord."
it's funny that you bring up john 20:29. jesus's words are, if memory serves me correctly, directed at thomas, after he had layed his hands on jesus's wounds. you see, my confirmation name is thomas. |
death to false metal. |
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enthuTIMsiast
Alien Abductee
6990 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2005 : 4:55:15 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kenneth
Jason, I sent you an email yesterday to the address you have listed here on your members page. Did you get that?
No I did not... make the subject blatant... like TR ENTHUTIMSIAST or something, otherwise, I won't see it. So yeah, just send it again. Or catch me on AIM, should be on tonight. |
Tim Reynolds Downloads
I am not the albatross of love, I am the human ellipsis. I am dot dot dot. - Leo Kottke
I hate beating people over the head with anything. We can all make up our own minds. What we don’t have is enough music. More music please. - Leo Kottke |
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Fluffy
Administrator
USA
10739 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2005 : 02:06:37 AM
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WE GOT A POPE!!!!!!
http://www.madblast.com/funpages/view.cfm?id=11678
ENJOY!!! |
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy
"THE MUSIC BUSINESS IS A CRUEL AND SHALLOW MONEY TRENCH-- A LONG PLASTIC HALLWAY WHERE THIEVES AND PIMPS RUN FREE AND GOOD MEN DIE LIKE DOGS. THERE'S ALSO A NEGATIVE SIDE..." -Hunter S. Thompson |
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The Popa, he's a dyin'!
