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Street-Samurai
Is Anybody Here?
USA
37 Posts |
 Posted - 10/28/2002 : 03:42:22 AM
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| I was just listening to Love of my Life from the 3-14-99 DandT show. Santana is a guest on the track obviously. So I'm listening to Carlos soloing and I'm going yeah this is good and then Tim steps in. Now I'm not bad mouthing Carlos but my god did Tim show him up. Anyway that's a good show I recommend getting it. Bob Weir is also a guest on Watchtower. Maybe I'm bias though cause it was in my home town. |
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Silky The Pimp
Alien Abductee
3321 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2002 : 12:14:55 PM
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| I actually laughed the first time I heard that... Santana was TR's bitch that night. |
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Baboonboy
Chatterbox
USA
195 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2002 : 12:46:10 PM
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Too bad they weren't filming for storytellers that night.. :) I like Carlos, but I can't stand his "Lets get all the popular singers in the world to be on my album, so it will sell' thing he's got going... it was cool once with Supernatural...but either retire, or do it on your own...
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ICQ - 578587
AIM - bluwaterbaboon |
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pcbTIM
Alien Abductee
USA
6501 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2002 : 1:20:24 PM
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| Yeah......I'm sure this has been discussed many TIMes before, but Santana is not as good as people make him out to be. Every song has essentially the same solo. If you've heard one Santana song, you've heard them all. |
Gay marriage killed the dinosaurs. |
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Bustoff
Chatterbox
145 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2002 : 4:24:05 PM
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This is true. But i think you have to realize that Carlos just doesn't care. He doesn't strive to be a technical player like TIM. He is satisfied with playing simple lines and melodies, while emphasizing the "playing with soul" idea, which he does very well. I think it's safe to say that TIM definately puts his soul into his music, but he's not satisfied with playing simple lines and melodies, which is what pushed him to be the spectacular technical player that he is.
So i guess i'm saying that from a technical perspective, yes, TIM is superior but i doubt that when they were playing that night that TIM was trying to show him up and i doubt that Carlos felt "showed up" - they're just two amazing artists blending their colors together on the canvas.
Being a better technical player doesn't neccesarily make you a "better" player all-around. |
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Jamie M
Chatterbox
Canada
404 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2002 : 5:04:41 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by pcbdmb
Yeah......I'm sure this has been discussed many TIMes before, but Santana is not as good as people make him out to be. Every song has essentially the same solo. If you've heard one Santana song, you've heard them all.
That's exactly how I feel. I will admit he can play an impressive solo, but that's all he can do. He doesn't even throw any interesting chords or anything in them for variety.
I found to my horror this year, that my brother thinks Santana is a more skilled guitar player than Tim. I can accept his personal preference, but he actually believes that Santana is more skilled. I played him the 3/14/99 solos and that didn't do anything, and he's heard Stream and all the D&T stuff, but all he does is play me a Santana solo and expect to convince me otherwise.
I figure comparing an electric Tim solo with a Santana solo is more or less equal, but then you've got Tim's acoustic stuff on top of all that. And so, to me, the overall comparison is absolutely rediculous, but he's so damn stubborn we end up just bitching at each other every time the subject comes up. |
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Erich
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1427 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2002 : 5:57:39 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bustoff
This is true. But i think you have to realize that Carlos just doesn't care. He doesn't strive to be a technical player like TIM. He is satisfied with playing simple lines and melodies, while emphasizing the "playing with soul" idea, which he does very well. I think it's safe to say that TIM definately puts his soul into his music, but he's not satisfied with playing simple lines and melodies, which is what pushed him to be the spectacular technical player that he is.
So i guess i'm saying that from a technical perspective, yes, TIM is superior but i doubt that when they were playing that night that TIM was trying to show him up and i doubt that Carlos felt "showed up" - they're just two amazing artists blending their colors together on the canvas.
Being a better technical player doesn't neccesarily make you a "better" player all-around.
youve just said everything i was going to, probably a little better too. |
~pw'oikr
~( "> |
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GuitarGuy305
Alien Abductee
USA
2007 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2002 : 6:00:28 PM
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Even on electric, Tim outshines Santana by a lot. Tim can shred it up pretty badass, which I have never heard Santana do. But like was already said, shredding is not really Santana's style.
To say Tim is not satisfied with playing simple melodies is a bit of a ignorant statement. I've heard him play some pretty simple stuff, stuff that is not elaborate or technically challanging, or lightning fast.
Adam |
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Bustoff
Chatterbox
145 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2002 : 10:02:07 PM
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quote:
To say Tim is not satisfied with playing simple melodies is a bit of a ignorant statement. I've heard him play some pretty simple stuff, stuff that is not elaborate or technically challanging, or lightning fast.
I didn't mean to imply that TIM never plays simple melodies in his music. Of course he's not simply shredding all the TIMe. He has some great songs that are quite simple, like "To Touch Yearning" or "After the Dust Settles." I'm saying that he's not satisfied to limiting his style to them, as Santana is most of the time. I don't think this is ignorant, maybe i wasn't very clear.
Erich - It's cool we're on the same (nomadic) wavelength.  |
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Street-Samurai
Is Anybody Here?
USA
37 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2002 : 10:42:53 PM
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quote:
So i guess i'm saying that from a technical perspective, yes, TIM is superior but i doubt that when they were playing that night that TIM was trying to show him up and i doubt that Carlos felt "showed up" - they're just two amazing artists blending their colors together on the canvas.
I agree with you but on that particular night I thought Tim's playing was far more dynamic and interesting regardless of who is technically better or who plays with more "soul". To put it frankly I found Carlos' playing quite boring. I'm not very familiar with him though so I really don't know if that's an accurate gauge of his playing. Basically I was just giving props to Tim no more no less. This is his message board after all. |
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Bustoff
Chatterbox
145 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2002 : 01:19:23 AM
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I know what you mean, Street-Samurai. I guess i just kinda like carlos so i'm trying to stick up for him a little. 
Download "Europa" by Santana if you wanna get a glimpse of his playing. Awesome tune. |
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Jamie M
Chatterbox
Canada
404 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2002 : 5:19:54 PM
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| I have yet to be really wowed by Tim's electric stuff in the way Jimmy Page can amaze me. Can anyone tell me a really fantastic, like one of his best, solo, and where I could find it? |
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Xar666
Yak Addict
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2002 : 5:48:52 PM
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I think Tim's greatest trait is his versatility. There are skilled electric players, skilled acoustic players, good songwriters and guitarists who have a mix of the above traits. However, Tim does it ALL. He can shred with the best metal guitarist and then pick up an acoustic and fingerpick like no other. Not only that, he has improvisational skills that are unmatched by most popular guitar players. It is very easy to play the same lead (note for note) for every performance.
When I play some of his more non-traditional work (Gossip of the Neurons) for a person who has never heard him and say "that is one guy with an acoustic guitar and a few effect pedals", they cannot believe it.
I had never listened to DMB until my brother handed me Live @ Luther College and not only was I impressed by Dave's unorthodox rhythm playing, but I kept thinking, "who the hell is that playing lead?” I had never heard acoustic playing like Tim's. I was instantly hooked. All this combined with Tim's lack of ego about his playing and his anti-corporate music attitude (we all know he could have joined DMB permanently and become a huge rockstar) make it even better.
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Street-Samurai
Is Anybody Here?
USA
37 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2002 : 9:40:44 PM
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| Well put Xar. Thats pretty much why I listen to Tim, I don't ever get bored. I downloaded "Europa" Bustoff and I was pleasantly surprised. Some very good electic playing, he holds those notes for a long fucking time and then goes off in the end which is always fun. |
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Bustoff
Chatterbox
145 Posts |
Posted - 10/30/2002 : 01:21:05 AM
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| Cool I thought you'd like that. He has the most amazing tone on that song - like you said he holds those notes out for so long. I heard his sound described as "pure woman tone" one time. Good analogy hehe. |
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Baboonboy
Chatterbox
USA
195 Posts |
Posted - 10/30/2002 : 04:11:37 AM
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Tim rules. Thats all there is to it..
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ICQ - 578587
AIM - bluwaterbaboon |
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GuitarGuy305
Alien Abductee
USA
2007 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2002 : 5:44:26 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bustoff
Cool I thought you'd like that. He has the most amazing tone on that song - like you said he holds those notes out for so long. I heard his sound described as "pure woman tone" one time. Good analogy hehe.
Wonder if he was using the Big Muff Pi on that one.
Adam |
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34AntsMarchinonGreyStreet
Is Anybody Here?
USA
37 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2002 : 7:01:45 PM
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| Satana was once amazing (Songs like Europa, Samba Pa Ti etc) but now, as it has been said, plays the exact same thing for every song. I too have listened to this concert, and he is shown up by Tim. Santana should have ended it after Supernatural rather than make a whole new album with the same sound. |
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SpaceMonkey
Chatterbox
315 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2002 : 10:57:34 PM
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"Carlos who?" is right! Michelle Branch blows him out of the water on that song (seriously, get used to hearing that song for the next twelve months..it'll probably win another grammy to boot).
Anyway, there is some Santana shit that is real cool...try these out
Samba Pa Ti and Incident at Neshbar from "Lotus"...Song of the Wind from "III", Gardenia from "Swing of Delight", and that's all I can think of off the top of the dome for now.. |
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Fluffy
Administrator
USA
10739 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2002 : 02:58:20 AM
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Like so many artists who have been around for so many years, Santana has had his high points and low points. I would venture to say he has had many more high points than low points. Some of my fave Santana work is:
Love, Devotion & Surrender(with John McLaughlin)
Blues For Salvador
Santana (self-titled 1st album)
Abraxas
Santana III
Lotus (Live)
A great place to start is VivaSantana if you don't have anything and want to start out with a great compilation. |
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy         
"THE MUSIC BUSINESS IS A CRUEL AND SHALLOW MONEY TRENCH-- A LONG PLASTIC HALLWAY WHERE THIEVES AND PIMPS RUN FREE AND GOOD MEN DIE LIKE DOGS. THERE'S ALSO A NEGATIVE SIDE..." -Hunter S. Thompson |
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{=HTG=}
Alien Abductee
USA
2342 Posts |
Posted - 12/24/2002 : 1:51:24 PM
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 Flaming Moe anyone? |
'HTG, are you a cute girl?'
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j
Chatterbox
149 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2002 : 11:23:11 PM
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I think tim and carlos are just different players, although I do think that the earlier santana stuff is really good. It reminds me of people ripping on Stefan Lessard whenever Victor Wooten guested. They are both good bass players and I enjoy them both; it wouldn't sound right if Victor took Stefan's place in DMB or vice versa with Lessard in the Flecktones. It's apples and oranges.
The more recent santana music is average at best with the exception of Love of my Life; that's a good tune--maybe it has something to do with the Brahm melody that inspired it. Anyway, I think that tim and carlos are different players; they approach the guitar differently. I think tim is more technically proficient than carlos, but in all fairness, carlos has done something with his music that is a rare feat. When you hear carlos, you know it's him; he created his own unique sound. It may not be unique by today's standards but that could be because other guitarists try to make their sound similar. That's not to say that Tim doesn't have a personal stamp on his music, I think his uniqueness lies in his approach, style, and writing abiliites though not his sound and phrasing.
There is something to be said, I think, for both characteristics. Tim and Carlos are both extremely talented guitar players, just in different ways; and it's unfortunate that most of the santana stuff I like is from the sixties and seventies. |
your words burn the air like the names of candy bars |
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Carlos Who?
