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dick mountjoy
Chatterbox
USA
176 Posts |
 Posted - 10/23/2002 : 10:08:36 PM
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So I was having a little online chat with a co-worker of mine initially about a local school district possibly making a 'comparative religions/cultures' course mandatory in high school (which I think is a grand idea) but we ended up talking about Islamic Fundamentalists and the 'Rest of the world vs. the U.S.' idea. Now previously I believed this person to be rather well educated, articulate and capable of reason, but that idea was soon dashed. Here are a few excerpts from our conversation, I was just wondering how many people know someone who thinks like this:
Me: i guess the waukesha school district was talking about adding a mandatory ethic studies-world religions/cultures class for high school
Them: IT IS A WASTE
Me: i think it would help american student a whole lot with understanding the world. kids in this country have no understanding of anything outside our borders. we need to fix that
Them: EVERYONE IS SO RACIST NOW, THERE IS NO NEED TO FUEL THAT.
Me: the way to stem racism is knowledge. if i was a teacher in high school the first thing i would teach would be the history of the middle east. american students are in the dark about lots of things. international students are well ahead of u.s. kids in history/culture studies
Them: THE TIME RIGHT NOW IS HORRIBLE.
Me: i agree. but its a great time to learn and discuss issues. a lot of the problems in the world are caused by lack of discussion and tolerance. 'we' really know nothing about 'them' and
'they' really know nothing about 'us'. thats how it always is. just an example (and no i'm not picking on dubya, this would probably be for most current politicians) was when the administration started the bombing campaign in afghanistan they named it 'infinite justice'. of course they didn't think about the fact that in islam the only one who can deliver justice is allah. so muslims saw our campaign of bombing as an insult to their religion just because we don't know anything about it. just an example thats all.
Them: I DO NOT BELIEVE IN ALL THE BS THAT THE MUSLIMS SPEAK OF
Me: sorry but that statement is exactly why the rest of the world sees us as ignorant and intolerant
Them: THAT IS FINE.
Me: that is the cause of all the conflict
Them: NO THEY HATE US FOR HOW WE LIVE
Me: absolutely not. "they" (which is what? 1 % of the muslim population) hate us because "we" try to impose our will on them. we want to control their land, control their resources, control their government. they don't hate us because we drive cars or drink coke. if we showed them some respect and let them determine their own lives things would be much better. it all comes down to $. our government will do anything to control it. they hate not because we have money, its how we go about getting it.
Them: THEY HATE CHRISTANS.
Me: that was funny
And it continued on for some time. I came to learn this person likes Dubya because 'he's cute', thinks we should bomb Iraq, Iran, Syria, North Korea, etc. so things will 'be better', and that the Government would never lie to the American people. I ended our conversation with 'You are what's wrong with our country'. Should be an interesting day at work Friday. 
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"Go Banana!" - Ralph Wiggum |
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tericee
Alien Abductee
USA
2579 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2002 : 10:34:13 PM
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Ignorance is scary, and there is ignorance on both sides. For that reason I think some muslims (and probably many other people as well) do hate the West for how we live.
Here's some information from a Gallup poll covered by USA Today:
"Some of the ill feelings might be attributable to how the West is portrayed by government-run TV stations and newspapers and how much or little access people have to foreign media. Large percentages in Saudi Arabia, Morocco and Kuwait say they trust their national media, even though censorship is common in those countries."
According to Gallup Poll editor-in-chief Frank Newport,
"...respondents have a deep-seated disrespect for what they see as the undisciplined and immoral lifestyles of people in Western nations."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/attack/2002/02/27/usat-pollside.htm |
teri 
Twittering about the DC adventure since Dec '09...
(Micro)Blog * Photo Album
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PJK
Alien Abductee
USA
4159 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2002 : 10:39:37 PM
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Whoa....actually the muslim culture is part of our 7th grade curriculum in the district I work for. The kids learn about Mohammad's life, the Muslim faith, the differences in the sects, the pillars of faith, etc. It has been taught for the past 6 years, not just since 9-11. It is fact based but extremely interesting. We also study the Chinese, Japanese, and African cultures. The kids learn what ethnocentrism is and talk about ways to abolish it. They really focus on their world view and how to expand it.
I learned a lot about Mohammad and I developed the greatest repect for Muslims and their beliefs. The coolest part was that one of the students we had last year was Muslim and he shared information with the class.
I don't know where you live, but I know there are a great number of places in the US where people are so narrow minded. My husband's family is from the farm land of Michigan and they are nice people, but extremely religious and ironically, very narrow minded. Everything is black and white to them. The only things they know about Muslims is what they read in the paper or hear on the news, yet they have very strong opinions about fighting against Muslims.
Sorry, but your co-worker sounds like the east end of a horse going west! |
"It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!"Friedrich Nietzsche |
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dick mountjoy
Chatterbox
USA
176 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2002 : 10:51:13 PM
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| I agree that lack of knowledge is a large part of the conflicts between cultures, but governments use selective journalism and censorship as a way to stem any anti-government sentiment that may arise out of the populus. It happens all the time in this country and it happens everywhere else. Anyone who has seen the Al-Jazeera clips on the news can see that. I can still fully understand how some of the 'rest' of the world can hate us for how how our society functions (driven by $) and what we consider important (movie stars, athletes, etc.). What alarmed me in my conversation with this person was that they inferred that they hated us because we love 'freedom'. As if a Muslim woman living in Afghanistan wouldn't like to have the choice to remove her veil if she wanted. duh. I thought I was talking to Dubya for a second when I heard that. |
"Go Banana!" - Ralph Wiggum |
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Fleabass76
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1026 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2002 : 10:59:41 PM
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What's to know about them? All I know is they hate freedom, and that's enough for me to go in their and kill hundreds of thousands of civilians and create never-ending conflicts. Hoo-eee. Saddle up boys!!  |
Robots are the enemy? Hmm... |
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pcbTIM
Alien Abductee
USA
6501 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2002 : 12:08:24 AM
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| And while we're there, let's take some more oil. Whadya say? |
Gay marriage killed the dinosaurs. |
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Fluffy
Administrator
USA
10739 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2002 : 04:24:59 AM
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| READ NOAM CHOMSKY'S "ROGUE STATE"!!!!! It will be alot more obvious why so much of the worlds view of the US is so negative. Try looking at the propoganda press right here in this country that "sheilds" us from things our country does that we might find equally as offensive as say attacking the world trade center. Only we do it in the name of democracy. Terrorism is terrorism. Read "Rogue State" and you will understand better what I am trying to say. |
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy         
"THE MUSIC BUSINESS IS A CRUEL AND SHALLOW MONEY TRENCH-- A LONG PLASTIC HALLWAY WHERE THIEVES AND PIMPS RUN FREE AND GOOD MEN DIE LIKE DOGS. THERE'S ALSO A NEGATIVE SIDE..." -Hunter S. Thompson |
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dick mountjoy
Chatterbox
USA
176 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2002 : 01:19:34 AM
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Absolutely Fluffy, I actually brought my copy of the book to work one day and asked this person to give it a chance, I was told "I don't read any of that crap, it's just some left-wing wacko ripping on Conservatives." Some people....  |
"Go Banana!" - Ralph Wiggum |
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enthuTIMsiast
Alien Abductee
6990 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2002 : 03:00:38 AM
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quote:
Read "Rogue State" and you will understand better what I am trying to say.
Yeah, if you can understand the book. I'm sorry, but this book was just over me, which probably comes as very little surprise to most of you here. Like I said once before, recently, I'm very un political. |
Tim Reynolds Downloads
I am not the albatross of love, I am the human ellipsis. I am dot dot dot. - Leo Kottke
I hate beating people over the head with anything. We can all make up our own minds. What we don’t have is enough music. More music please. - Leo Kottke |
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Fluffy
Administrator
USA
10739 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2002 : 06:03:32 AM
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| Hey dick mountjoy, seems some people are already TOO SMART for their own good. I am really scared of people who aren't willing to listen to the other side of an argument. Sounds like he is scared to read it. If he wasn't scared he would read it just to learn a little about what the other side has to say and I would think someone would want to read it just to be able to argue their case with more conviction. Some people have all the conviction in the world but can't back it up because they have no idea what the other side is talking about. I pity the fool. Let him live in his blissful ignorance. You tried and that is commendable. There are far to many people who will never see the forest for all the trees. |
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy
"THE MUSIC BUSINESS IS A CRUEL AND SHALLOW MONEY TRENCH-- A LONG PLASTIC HALLWAY WHERE THIEVES AND PIMPS RUN FREE AND GOOD MEN DIE LIKE DOGS. THERE'S ALSO A NEGATIVE SIDE..." -Hunter S. Thompson |
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'You are what's wrong with our country'
