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rubylith
Fluffy-Esque
1916 Posts |
 Posted - 06/02/2005 : 4:46:10 PM
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ok I live on a small road...
they have recently installed surveillance cameras to monitor New Jersey's citizens. I am deeply upset of this.
Here is an article:
http://www.ble.org/pr/news/pf_headline.asp?id=10034
"NEWARK, N.J. -- New Jersey's $102 million transportation security plan provides for surveillance cameras on bridges, increased police patrols on trains and extra bomb-sniffing dogs, officials said during a legislative budget hearing yesterday."
ok so now cameras on all bridges and railroads...
I am taking pictures and video in an hour and I will post them here.
May be coming to a town near you. |
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chrism
Is Anybody Here?
Canada
45 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2005 : 4:56:12 PM
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| filthy animals better stay away from my town....sorry to hear about your misfortune, that really bits. |
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rubylith
Fluffy-Esque
1916 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2005 : 6:12:43 PM
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hey, yea I know, it is a shame. Here are the photos:
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enthuTIMsiast
Alien Abductee
6990 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2005 : 12:23:11 AM
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| big brother is watching... |
Tim Reynolds Downloads
I am not the albatross of love, I am the human ellipsis. I am dot dot dot. - Leo Kottke
I hate beating people over the head with anything. We can all make up our own minds. What we don’t have is enough music. More music please. - Leo Kottke |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2005 : 12:04:26 PM
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| awesome. that's awesome. |
death to false metal. |
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Robin
Yak Addict
USA
598 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2005 : 12:51:10 PM
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| This is so creepy,and it makes me really sad that we seem to have no say at all. Peace? Robin |
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rubylith
Fluffy-Esque
1916 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2005 : 1:04:18 PM
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yea...
just keep an eye out. They are all over new york. I brought it to the attention of the local newspapers and they are doing a peice about it. DO what you can locally, for now we are able to think for ourselves.
thanks |
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Silky The Pimp
Alien Abductee
3321 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2005 : 12:19:17 AM
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| I don't quite see the harm in having some traffic cameras posted. Here in Atlanta, they have them all over the place and they do 2 things: 1) They catch people going through red lights, which is great because people run lights way past the questionable mark here, and 2) They help to put updates onto electronic signs throughout the city's highways that tell of accidents, backups, lane closures, construction, and approximate transit times to different locations. Something tells me the government isn't zooming in on your every move using these cameras. I'd hardly call that an invasion of privacy unless you're really big on running red lights. |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2005 : 11:13:33 AM
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i'm really big on running red lights late at night. because if no cars are there what's the fucking difference.
i wouldn't call it an invasion of privacy, though. because they're in public places. people can see what you do in public places anyway. |
death to false metal. |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2005 : 1:44:40 PM
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| CONFUSION... OBSERVATION.... MIND CONTROL!! |
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rubylith
Fluffy-Esque
1916 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2005 : 1:44:51 PM
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very true, i agree that they can be used for good, but do you really trust the government?
not to mention it just shows what is in store to come.
sure these cameras are harmless, but sooner then later they will be everywhere. just like in the UK. and im against that.
its unavoidable, its the downard spiral of democracy and the return of fascism. |
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rubylith
Fluffy-Esque
1916 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2005 : 1:46:04 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Zachmozach
CONFUSION... OBSERVATION.... MIND CONTROL!!
awesome, i was waiting for someone to post that! |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2005 : 10:45:17 PM
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| i think that's a little extreme. |
death to false metal. |
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guitarisPIMP
Yak Addict
Niue
587 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2005 : 11:09:15 PM
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| I'll wait until the spiral starts to actually get ridiculous before I start making those claims. Traffic cameras are not an invasion of privacy in the least. Roads are government property. You can't even drive on them legally without the government knowing it anyways(licensing vehicles and getting drivers licenses). I mean yes, alot of signs seem to be pointing in that direction(new cameras, ridiculous legislation such as patriot act, airport security going bonkers) but in the past the government has reacted all sorts of ways to things, and this is sort of a paranoid reaction to terrorism. It's similar to the communism craze and the cause of the Vietman War, hysteria over the red takeover, the domino effect, etc. I expect that things will calm down within the next 5 years, and if not, then the dumb rednecks who are voting for Bush will wise up, get their shotguns together, and start some militia mayhem against the New Nazis. |
my favorite color is go fuck yourself. :D |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2005 : 12:26:07 AM
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I'm just a little pissed at all the survelience in general. It's one thing to have traffic cameras and all that, but I mean it's pretty sickening that society is getting to the point where people are willing to have camera's up everywhere just so they can moniter people close enough to make sure no one is breaking any laws and bringing down the system. This doesn't bother me as much as the actual goverment surveilence that goes on and has gone on in stuff like COINTELPRO and stuff. For example...
Mark Felt AKA Deepthroat, not only was the whistle blower for the watergate breakins, but actually was responsible for a few of his own. He was also convicted of conspiring to violate consitutional rights of american citizens. One such story that was on democracy now recently was told by Jennifer Dohrn whose sister was part of the weather underground and she herself was pretty active in the anti war movement and civil rights movement. Well not only did the FBI follow and surveil her constantly as well as tap her phones bug her rooms and generally harrass her, but they even hatched a plot to kidnap her son. It turns out that Wesley Swearingen a former FBI man had also stated he had performed over 200 burglaries working for the FBI. You can read more aobut it at http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/06/02/1445253
So that's really the scary thing about it. If you don't think the government isn't already involved in surrveilence you are just sadly misinformed. What I see as a trend in putting up cameras everywhere they can, can be a scary thought when you think of how they could be used. I mean sure the camera in your store that stops the shoplifters is one thing, but when they have the network of cameras up that they can use to literally moniter people it is a scary thing. I just think we shouldn't allow it to get to that point. We don't need people watching over us that closely. In general it's just another sign of a failing society. |
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Silky The Pimp
Alien Abductee
3321 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2005 : 12:33:04 PM
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I can see where you all are coming from not wanting every move monitored, but if you take this line of thinking through to its end it seems routed much more in paranoid fiction than in reality. Yes, we've all read 1984... seen movies like Equilibrium... sounds hellish. But is it realistic?
Imagine the sheer manpower and infrastructure it would take for the government to monitor every person's every move. 24 hour surveillance... everywhere? It would take a sizable portion of the entire country's population to be able to keep on top of things the way you all are talking about. Not to mention what it would cost to implement and continually run this. Where would the funds for something like that come from? Taxes? Probably not. National budget? Something tells me putting a 30 trillion dollar 'surveillance' bill before congress wouldn't quite do it. Let's see, what other ways are there? We could take the Egyptian pyramids approach and have aliens build and run the whole thing. Oh yeah, that wasn't aliens, it was the Jews. Alas, I may be on to something. We could revert back to slavery to get people to build the infrastructure and man the observation stations. Hell, if we're going that way, I'll go ahead and be the first of the "Not its" ... Not it.
So let's see... the government wants to have a network of interconnected cameras all running to fully staffed observation stations? Ok... possibly post apocalypse, maybe during the rebuilding phase... sure, I'll buy that. Totally possible. But we're talking science fiction, which is exactly what the idea of evil government observation and control is and where it comes from.
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2005 : 1:27:09 PM
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Why would you assume that the government would want to moniter everyone? I'm not talking about them monitering everyone. I'm saying that should surrveilence power increase exponentially like it has then soon it will be easier for the government to moniter people. Like say for example the leader of an antiwar group is speaking out against what the government is doing and they have developed the technology to follow someone around basically throughout a city without ever tailing them or having a person actually follow them. I know it seems like paranoia, I'm really not paranoid that the government is watching me right now, but I am concerned that there are trends heading us towards increased surrveilence.
If some day in the future we have cameras recording movement of people down roads and all that we don't need many people to moniter them. It's the idea that if the government wants info they then go pull up these recordings and find out where the person goes on a daily basis and all that. I'm just saying that more cameras and surrveilence is not what this country needs. |
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Silky The Pimp
Alien Abductee
3321 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2005 : 1:53:09 PM
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quote:
Why would you assume that the government would want to moniter everyone?
Why would you assume they wouldn't? It's all speculation on unfounded assumptions about the intentions of the government.
As for your example, it's a theoretical situation. Let's go with it, though. Say our antiwar activist is a saintly hero. He goes through the right channels. He gets people to voice their opinions in the bureaucratic manner that the governmental system necessitates, and he rallies support for his cause. So the government decides to put cameras on him without his knowledge. He continues to rally support using only legal manners and is eventually taken seriously and gets some sort of change made, whatever that may be. His patience has paid off. Tell me... what harm did having him under surveillance do?
Let's look at the flip side of this theoretical coin. Our activist isn't the patient type willing to go through the proper channels. He's the UC Berkley lock ourselves in a room until they arrest us so we can make a statement type. He too rallies support for his cause, but does it in a disruptive manner. So the government puts him under the cameras scrutiny. He starts to walk the fine line between activist and extremist and decides that Timothy McVeigh had it right and the only way to be heard is to do something drastic. So government cameras catch him on tape buying the necessary materials to make a car bomb and he's arrested red handed driving his truck with a giant bomb inside of it before he can detonate it. Again... what harm did having him under surveillance do? |
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Muskrat
Chatterbox
USA
266 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2005 : 2:20:00 PM
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We've had those same cameras since forever in my area, they caught my friend running a red light, but they didn't catch me!
I'm sick and on medication right now so I keep spacing out so I didn't read all the posts, just skimmed, but it doesn't seem to me to be an invasion of privacy... now when the cameras are set up and my house just happens to be in the background, that's when I'd start to get worried. |
"You know, if you live long enough, eventually you're gonna die." -Words of wisdom from my dad |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2005 : 3:57:51 PM
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| Well I assumed they wouldn't for the same reasons you gave in your first post. It's just not a workable idea. If you like the idea of having cameras everywhere recording and letting the government have direct access to them then you have much more trust in the government than I do. Not only does the government actively disrupt and harass people seeking change they deem radical, but they do it ileagally. Why let them increase their ability to break the law? |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2005 : 7:41:22 PM
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"Oh yeah, that wasn't aliens, it was the Jews."
the jews already control our media, and thusly much of our minds. |
death to false metal. |
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guitarisPIMP
Yak Addict
Niue
587 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2005 : 7:59:14 PM
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The current things that are going on right now in no way suggest some kinda of horrible trend. Let's apply this same logic on a smaller scale. Mother's son gets in a car crash, the car is severely damaged, the mother is in absolute truama, and the son is temporarily injured, say a broken bone or something. The mother then, of course, personally revokes her son's driving privileges by limiting his freedomes in some minor way. In this scenario, the most matching limitation would be for her to be in the car at all available times of his driving, surveying, if you will, his conduct. Now say the son protests, saying this limitation of freedom is an injustice, as he has legally earned the right to drive on his own whenever and wherever he pleases (bear in mind we are assumming that this son doesn't have his provisional, he's got full adult legal driving privileges). The son also claims that such a limitation is the manifestation of a new trend of a long slew of Nazi-like, tight-ass, militarian rules enforced viciously by his parents. Given the circumstances, this is a bit extreme for two reasons.
#1 The mother, the governing body, has just suffered what to her is an extreme loss, and is only acting to prevent it from happening again. It's a psychology thing, you suffer a loss and the effects of the loss make you tighten any type of prevention of that loss to an unreasonable degree. Fear does funny things to people, and it's shown, and I've already brought up the previous example of the Red Scare. This doesn't mean it's permanent either, legislations change, that's why bills have to be renewed, why the Patriot Act is, or was, in the process of being renewed. I'm not up on my news so I don't know if that whole process has finished yet.
#2 The son is arbitrarily taking these new limitations as only the first stages of something very big. There's a word for that. Precognition. There's a bunch of words for precognition too, among them are Myth, Sci-Fi, and Bullshit.
Hopefully you follow all the symbols and matching concepts in my example.
I think the problem here is that the government, along with many others, have taken on a war-time mentally with our country, as if terrorism were enough of a threat to sacrifice some freedoms. In truth, I don't believe that to be so, and clearly alot of other people share my ideals. The problem then lies in the fact that the ones controlling our legislation are the ones who are paranoid, so we all suffer the consequences of this way of thinking whether we like it or not. |
my favorite color is go fuck yourself. :D |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2005 : 10:48:31 PM
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| Hey I'm not trying to say it's happening right now, I'm just saying I'm against it. I'm not on some panic attack or anything. I think it's just a matter of I don't like the idea of cameras going up everywhere and there seem to be more going up all the time. I don't know if it means anything or what will come of it, but I'll be keeping my ears and eyes open regarding surveilence. The thing that scares me more is the national ID card and such. That really bugs me. I'm just saying I don't like the cameras. |
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cameras...everywhere
