| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
PJK
Alien Abductee
USA
4159 Posts |
 Posted - 04/11/2005 : 7:37:01 PM
|
I was just reading all the posts from the 2003 birthday wish for Adam (Guitar Guy 305) and I saw one from Jay and it made me realize I haven't seen him on here lately.
Jay, where are you? I hope you are ok and I just missed your posts. I could really use a "Jay story" right about now, how about it? eh???
 |
"It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!"Friedrich Nietzsche |
|
|
Arthen
Alien Abductee
USA
4845 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2005 : 8:57:03 PM
|
| I think we could all use another rousing Jay story. That guy is one of the more colorful of characters, and that's saying a lot for this board. |
Steve Hackett: "I'm my own opening act, you see."
Tim (before "Faceoff"): "Peace, love....and SEX!"
cbenc41@hotmail.com |
 |
|
|
dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2005 : 10:05:42 PM
|
| i'd be willing to bet he's not laying off the weed any. and really, who would want it any other way? |
death to false metal. |
|
|
|
enthuTIMsiast
Alien Abductee
6990 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2005 : 10:13:46 PM
|
| indeed, I haven't seen him around here in a long time. |
Tim Reynolds Downloads
I am not the albatross of love, I am the human ellipsis. I am dot dot dot. - Leo Kottke
I hate beating people over the head with anything. We can all make up our own minds. What we don’t have is enough music. More music please. - Leo Kottke |
|
|
|
tericee
Alien Abductee
USA
2579 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2005 : 07:09:23 AM
|
| Did he fall into the black hole of college like pcbTIM did (for a while)? |
|
|
|
Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2005 : 12:21:50 PM
|
| Ya I haven't been around as long as most of you, but Jay is just fucking cool to have around. It's weird until Pam pointed it out I hadn't really noticed it but he hasn't posted in a long time. Others have returned lately which is good, but he didn't need to leave because I miss his threads. I always like his posts. |
 |
|
|
|
Arthen
Alien Abductee
USA
4845 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2005 : 1:27:27 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by tericee
Did he fall into the black hole of college like pcbTIM did (for a while)?
I thought he had at least another year or two before College. He always was one of the younger regulars around here. C'mon back Jay! |
Steve Hackett: "I'm my own opening act, you see."
Tim (before "Faceoff"): "Peace, love....and SEX!"
cbenc41@hotmail.com |
|
|
|
Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
|
|
Robin
Yak Addict
USA
598 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2005 : 7:08:33 PM
|
| Funny you all should mention Jay, as I was thinking of his stories. His was one of the first posts I ever read here, and remember thinking how talented a writer he is. He was on the Chris Whitley board a few months ago, and I was also wondering what happened to him.Hope all is well and wonderful wherever he is. Peace, Robin |
|
|
|
Silky The Pimp
Alien Abductee
3321 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2005 : 08:33:42 AM
|
| Someone who lives near "Hard-on" Ohio should check on him. |
 |
|
|
|
pcbTIM
Alien Abductee
USA
6501 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2005 : 2:04:32 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by tericee
Did he fall into the black hole of college like pcbTIM did (for a while)?
Yeah.....I was in a dark place for a while....with books and lab reports and projects and write ups and......needless to say, this last semester of college has been the easiest I've ever had. So I have a lot of free time. |
Gay marriage killed the dinosaurs. |
|
|
|
dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2005 : 4:27:47 PM
|
| i'm glad i'm a music major. most of my work is practicing guitar, woodwind, brass, conducting, and singing. the only real writing i do is theory work and score marking for conducting. i listen to these horror stories my friends give me about the 20 thousand or whatever page paper they have to write once a month. and i always think: "i'm glad i don't have a real major." |
death to false metal. |
|
|
|
Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2005 : 5:04:30 PM
|
| Tertiary school (college) is fucking bullshit. Another capitalist monstrosity. You can all thank Ronny Reagan (The first coming of GW Bush) for letting the corporate world get its grips on private and public education. THANKS REPUBLICANS! |
http://db.etree.org/hopefulrollingwaves/ < My Trading List |
|
|
|
thomasode
Yak Addict
565 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2005 : 10:48:35 PM
|
| Well I talked to Jay on the phone a few weeks back...come to think of it, it was actually more like a few months ago, but anywho, I know he's doing good, I'll call him tommorow and tell him that ya'll need some jay lovin |
|
|
|
dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2005 : 12:29:24 AM
|
| please use the term "jay-lovin'." |
death to false metal. |
|
|
|
Jay
Alien Abductee
Vatican City
2279 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2005 : 04:03:10 AM
|
I got a story to tell...it's a long one, it's gonna take some time...but it's all here, the hole god damn thing...
First things first, i guess i need to address the reason for my absence...I've been reading the posts and everything with some regularity, but i guess the real reason is that I've been using the computer very sparingly, but next to that I seemed to have found myself with nothing to say...Not in any negative sense, just in a weird sense...
Second things, i guess i need to address THAT...wherein lies the story.
I don't know how common it is for a guy as young as myself to send himself on some personal journey, i suppose quite a few consciencely think "All right, it's time to go on one of those 'find myself' quests..." and figure it'll make them look cool or something...but with me, it's been completely out of my hands. Picture a bubble. Now try to find the BEGINING of the bubble. It's impossible, as there is no start and no finish, but it is definately there and tangible. There are many things that I will be discussing in this outbusrt of sorts, so just remember that metaphor (i'll clue you in, don't worry...if this is in any way confusing you, it will get worse, trust me...) I couldn't say much more. Maybe stratification is the best route in this instance.
Evolution---Study it, it's amazing. We, in the worldly all-encompassing sense, are animals. A species. An Organism. What sets us apart from the other organisms is not only our capacity for abstract thought, but our ability of self-realization. To put it in easier terms (hahaha...), we realize that we ARE. That being said, one can come to realize that we, the humans, are the glitch in the grand program. Now, as a warning, from this point on when I use the term "we," I am refering to everyone in general, just wanted to make that clear.
Human evolution...it's a terrifying thought to me, what we've become. Think of the earliest humans. They lived to eat. To breed. Survive, if you want to put it that way. Later, as the world become civilized, life is complicated by who-owns-what and who-owns-who and such...What I'm getting at is this: As we've established ourselves as the landlord animal of the planet, we have stopped evolving. Instead of adapting to our environment, we consume it. A mindless machine, bent on destruction. Nothing is left untouched. Now, I'm not trying to get everyone to join hands with Greenpeace, it's frivilous (however you spell it...) because this cannot be stopped. We have beaten the natural system to a bloody mess and have installed a new program, and this one's a cold hard bitch. Strata number two (am I establishing a flow here, does this make any sense at all?)
I'm a high school student. At least, that is what I'm supposed to be. I have to live up to that. I get up in the morning, smoke a smoke or two or three or however many i have time to siphon down before my ride arrives and i can have another...smoke...(yeah, that's a lot i know i realize all ready but i like it dammit get off my fucking case mom!) I get to the parking lot and am greeted by one of squirelliest of fellows, my school's security guard, Zeke. This man is a trip. He's one of the nicest people i've ever known. He's a DJ on the side (or is he a security guard on the side?), he has told me in the past that the trick to keep people, especially small children, to stay and listen is to throw sugar packets to them. Sweet'n'Low, even. He says it works, and damn straight i beleive him. After a quick and often bizzare conversation with the man, I walk into the building, smell the smell, get my first of four 16 ounce cups of coffee and start the motor, sort of...
High school, as you all remember, is pretty much the fart of your life. SO much to worry about, ya know...chemistry test, this and that thing and oh yeah the chicks and the art project and not to mention the stress. Ah fuck, i say.
Ever since this new program has been in place (the bubble metaphor, again) it has infected everything. What is our ultimate goal, according to our teachers, parents, etc...well, it's to "succeed." To make money, to be able to consume. In the singular sense, to have more than the man next to you. Learning (which really, when you think about it, is evolution in the purest sense) has been replaced with another entity, lable it "Being Taught." (the bubble metaphor, remember...) We are told what to know, and how to know it. We are, as high school students, to do what we are told we are to do as best as possible because that is what's "right." Do i smell a big ass pile of dogma around here? While some just blow it off, not paying attention at all, others follow directions, Jay tends to think about it. All of this stress and close-mindedness about what? A 4.0? To be #1 on your class list? Oh, wonderful. Congradulations, you are the best at being told what to know, at being told how to apply your mind, which, let us not forget, is the reason why we are humans and not just some animal foraging the forest for edible organic matter. Look at me, I sound like your typical disgruntled high school student, bitching about "the system." I don't care about that, think what you want. Do come to the realization, though, that I speak in metaphors. In symbols, even. The word of the day, kids, is MICROCOSM.
Look at this place we live in. Tell me that you don't see the same things i have just discussed happening on every tier, from the universal all the way down into your own little mind. We are, in a sense, consuming ourselves as a race. The new program has taken "survival of the fittest" and applied it for it's own digusting pleasure. Creativity, contemplation, exercizing our own unique gift given to us by whatever force of nature (let's call it God) that mans the tiller on this ship...are being burned at the stake...for the sake of more. More. More...more worth. More material. More consummation. As the people who work day after day to produce food for the masses are being replaced by "professionals," this beautiful force called 'life' is being Hoovered out like cat piss from a rug. And we have doctors telling us what's wrong with us, telling me that the toxins I inhale when I light a cigarette or smoke a fat blunt are terrible, terrible things for me but here, i see my big fat medical bible here says you are depressed so here's this pill that goes into your brain ya know where the thoughts are made and builds a gun shop right on the corner of right and wrong oh and if you puke your guts out or your fucking liver gives way like the Grand Teton dam just gimmie a holla and we'll see what else we can do, next patient please? Then, in an attempt to live longer, the doctor takes a big bite of Mr. Organic Grapefruit and smiles. I'm not attacking the kind souls that help with real health problems. The people who are there for the victims of unfortunate circumstance. The real sick people, the injured.
I guess what I'm getting at is this...I've been too concerned with my own two-bit philosophy to have much to say around here lately...Sorry if this "story" is bland in nature...
I do have to say, though, that this has been one of the best nights of my life. I spent the evening with two of my best friends, watching Leo Kottke for the first half, eating a delicious gyro and discussing music for a while, then moving on to other topics similar to the ones above and reaching some sort of epiphany. And this could have not come to me at a better time, it made my night perfect in so many ways...All of your comments, as curious as it sounds, have made me insanely joyful...maybe the four energy drinks and strict coffee intake helped, but their effect is shot out of the water right now. Just to let you all know, though, i'm totally fine and happy, still jammin' out every friday night (Me, lay off the weed? what, are you kidding?) and still livin' in good old Hard-on. we are getting the world's most luxourious DAIRY QUEEN. now...what...the fuck...All right...that and a 300-seat Subway, which incidentally will also be the most luxourious Subway in the world. Yeah, Chardon, home of the '94 state champs! Also home of the most stoner-friendly shithouse fast food joints (well, subway's pretty okay) on the face of this here planet. I'll be around, for sure. Thank you all for being here and being who you are, it's greatly appreciated, and i'm afraid that I'm at a loss for anymore words than that...Good night! |
"Hey man...you smell..."
"Oh yeah?"
"yeah...like dinner..." |
|
|
|
Arthen
Alien Abductee
USA
4845 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2005 : 04:29:46 AM
|
And he emerges from the shadows and bestows upon us an enlightening story/parable.
Jay man, you remind me of that Mad Magazine character, Alfred whatever. Not in a goofy way, but with his slogan: "What, me worry?" You are like the "Dude" from the Big Lebowski. Taking it easy for all us sinners. |
Steve Hackett: "I'm my own opening act, you see."
Tim (before "Faceoff"): "Peace, love....and SEX!"
cbenc41@hotmail.com |
|
|
|
PJK
Alien Abductee
USA
4159 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2005 : 12:37:58 PM
|
Jay, did you ever read the book Ismael? You damn well could have written it! |
"It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!"Friedrich Nietzsche |
|
|
|
Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2005 : 1:54:14 PM
|
Ya Jay if you haven't read Ishmael by Daniel Quinn you should definitely do so. Fluffy actually turned me on to his writing. I would agree with your post except I don't believe that it's human or human nature that the problem lies in. It's culture. Check this out. 10,000 years ago almost all of the world lived a hunter gatherer lifestyle. One culture in mesopotamia started to encourage the growth of foods they liked. Eventually coming to rely on the food they now grew. As all the archeological research has shown us over the years is that every culture that has made the switch to agriculturists they have found evidence to show malnutrition and hardships for at least a period of time. Also studies show that it takes half as many calories of work to get your food in a hunter gatherer society then in agricultural society.
Anyway what happened though was that eventually the people of this first civilization (and really consider what civilization means) began to produce more and more food. Now it also created a power structure because they had to lock up the food to ensure people would work. It's not easy to grow food it's much easier to let the earth grow it and go get it. Well then look at history this culture spread because once their population grew they didn't have enough resources in their area so they began to expand into others areas unitl the present day in which this culture owns the earth.
I would be very careful though saying anything about humans or human nature being flawed. Look at the first story in the bible about adam eve and the garden of eden. They lived in a paridise where the food grew and they ate it. Then they partook of the fruit which was the tree of the gods or the knowledge of good and evil. Now look at any ancient religion and see that when the talk about a balance of good and evil they mean that sometimes a lion kills an antelope and it's evil for the antelope, but sometimes the antelope gets away and it's evil for the lion. The gods balanced this though. Then man partook of the fruit and now he thought he was to govern the earth.
Now sure not a christian on earth knows this is what that stories about, but it's the only explanation that makes any sense. This culture began to break the rules the govern life on this earth. The simpelest biological law that all creatures follow except those in this culture. You may compete fully to your means but you don't declare war on other species or your own. It's really simple and it's in almost every native or aboriginal religion on this earth in the form of a sacred hoop or otherwise. Now you have christians and buddhists and everyone relgious or not teaching that man is flawed, but anotomically modern and correct humans lived on this earth for thousands upon thousands of years and didn't seem to have these problems.
So I don't think it's our ability of self realization or our large brains or human nature it's our culture. Usually culture passes on the way to surrvive and the way to live, but the culture we are passing on is doing nothing short of killing us off. It's this basic belief though that man is flawed that is the basis of many religions. Wheras without fail hunter gatherer cultures don't have a concept of needing to be saved or anything because it's saved from what. They also believe earth is their home and not just a stop along the way to reach this eternal bliss of heaven.
Anyway Quinn's writing is basically based on these principles and I reccomend checking him out. Like you were saying about surrvival of the fittest. What used to be a sacred hoop is now a pyramid with us on top. Keep thinking about this stuff because you seem to think like I do in many ways because I agree with so much of your post.
Wind doesn't grow wind. Light doesn't grow light. Earth doesn't grow life it only grows dead bodies. Earth is life. |
|
|
|
|
Arthen
Alien Abductee
USA
4845 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2005 : 2:13:02 PM
|
One could argue Zach, that it's human nature to expand and evolve, and that the creation of these kinds of "civilizations" was a natural step.
There's no way that people would have remained in hunter/gatherer societies permanently. |
Steve Hackett: "I'm my own opening act, you see."
Tim (before "Faceoff"): "Peace, love....and SEX!"
cbenc41@hotmail.com |
|
|
|
Jay
Alien Abductee
Vatican City
2279 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2005 : 4:58:21 PM
|
My argument, you have to understand, was written at 4:30 in the morning...
Basically, what I'm saying goes along with what both of you have said, really...Our culture, at least in my view, is an extension of ourselves on a mass scale, hence the use of the word "we" instead of "people" or "Humans." I do beleive that we are flawed, but flaws are what cause evolution. Our culture, an extension of ourselves, is the new program i was talking about earlier. We have literally replaced the natural force (God) with us playing God...it's pretty scary. I could be just a natural step, maybe this is the way it's supposed to be for a truly "perfect" species...who knows...I'm gonna eat this burger here...
|
"Hey man...you smell..."
"Oh yeah?"
"yeah...like dinner..." |
|
|
|
Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2005 : 6:58:12 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Arthen
One could argue Zach, that it's human nature to expand and evolve, and that the creation of these kinds of "civilizations" was a natural step.
There's no way that people would have remained in hunter/gatherer societies permanently.
Who's to say that. I mean they lived that way for so long it's more amazing to me that they quit living that way. I mean correct me if I'm wrong, but when you say there is no way that they would have remained as hunter gatherers forever it seems to me you are following the history of man according to civilization. For example 10,000 years ago people finally figured out how to grow crops and finally started living in a better way so that we could have buildings and all this modern day stuff. It took them a long time to fingure out that this is what they were supposed to do. To me I don't see this as some sort of great step or evolution. I don't see the destiny in it.
See because a mere 10,000 after the this reveloution of agriculture we are really close to destorying ourselves. I mean we convert more and more bio-mass into human mass every year at a ridiculous rate while we are destroying the earths ability to continue to support us. Look the only way humans get energy is through plants and any close study of the things happening geoloigally (desertification, pollution, etc.) it's no stretch that among the hundreds of species we get rid of in a week we will soon be one of them. So it seems to me that it would be more logical to say that people would have gone on forever (or as long as the earth made possible) as hunter gatherer's because we will not go on forever like this. Maybe not even a hundred more years.
Human nature is a tricky subject though. Like I said most people think human nature means we are inherently bad. Or we need to be saved, or some believe it is inherently good. I don't know one way or the other, but I do find it funny that there have been other civilizations on this earth where people have walked away from them. Mayans, Aztecs, and few others on this continent have built great civilizations only to walk away from them as they felt it wasn't an expansion or evolution. I think it's because they hadn't passed down in their culture that civilization was the only way to live and humanities last invention. They may have decided living the way their ancestors did was better then the way they lived then. I think if you study out the archeology you'll find that they don't really have a reason for them abondoning the civilizations and cities they built. It's unthinkable for people in our culture that they would have gone back to living like "savages".
So I just think that people so often are willing to live out the story of their culture like that finally they figured out how to grow food. Also that this is the best and only way to live or that hunter gatherers had some bad lives. I don't know if that's what your really saying though Arthen. I may have read to much into it, but I guess I just run in to it enough that it was some sort of destiny for people to finally figure out that civilization is the way to go and now there is nothing beyond it. We are supposed live like this until the end of all things. I just think the endevor of humanity should be to move beyond civilization as it's not a working system (at least for the entire globe).
Jay no arguement from me other then that our culture is the only one who is trying to be like gods. Besides what you wrote was great especially for 4:30 in the morning. You are right on on so many things. Just remember our culture is not humanity. I don't argue that it's part of being human or being ape for that matter for culture to evolve and grow over time in fact most anthropologists see bahavioral traits and learned behaviors being intragal in our evolution, but at the same time I believe the behaviors will end up killing off humanity. It's time for people to see what we've done to the world. We are destroying it's capabilty to support life on the scale that it has in the past. I mean we can't drink from rivers or streams. We are running out of oil and there is no energy fix that has been found. Hydrogen isn't going to be able to keep society going like it is now.
Anyway enough of my ranting, but it's easy to see why so many people hate this world and think humans are flawed. I think that most of our problems could be changed with changing the way we live on the earth and seeing the earth as a sacred entity. The great hoop of life can be restored it just needs people to enact the vision. It doesn't need more and more programs dedicated to keeping the earth clean and war away and whatever other progressive value. It needs a new vision of a new way to live or go back to one that we know works. |
|
|
|
|
Robin
Yak Addict
USA
598 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2005 : 7:00:18 PM
|
You are so amazing....I have been contemplating similar thoughts lately and trying not to get bummed out and hopeless. I have to say you are so insightful, and it gives me hope that you see through the muck that is handed to us daily. The other day, as I was trying to come up with a statement for an organization I volunteer with. (It was about the BLM adopt a wild horse program). I'm always interested in other people's view of things, and am mostly open to hearing them. I was explaining my feeling of the problem being with the cattle ranchers, who've been paying the same five cents an acre for like a hundred years. And are so self rightous about there being too many horses. It's all under the guise of multiple land use. Someone pointed out that we would never get anything different to happen and so we need to just deal with it as is.
Being who I am I cannot just resign myself, especially when it comes to the planet that we all share. Some of us don't share well and many not at all.
But for a brief moment I questioned my beliefs. Because I'm an optimist,I won't take no for an answer, I always search to find another way. And I truly beleive that we can have the best outcome at TIMes if we just keep at it. My point being that, Jay you are so right on,and I'm glad to hear that you aren't just swallowing what's dished out to you. Sorry if this went on too long, or doesn't make sense I'm having a rather inarticulate day.Peace, Robin |
|
|
|
tericee
Alien Abductee
USA
2579 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2005 : 05:42:46 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Zachmozach
As all the archeological research has shown us over the years is that every culture that has made the switch to agriculturists they have found evidence to show malnutrition and hardships for at least a period of time.
Interesting... What implications does this have for vegetarians? |
|
|
|
Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2005 : 12:28:48 PM
|
| Tericee it's not that a vegitarian diet would be bad it was the frequency of eating, what they were eating and so on. In many hunter gatherer cultures the food that's gathered (not hunted) provides around 60% (I think I'll have to check later, but I'm pretty sure that's what it is. Either way a substantial amount.) of the diet. I think one of the biggest deals with the poor health has been atributed with having to work harder. |
|
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
WHERE IN THE HELL IS JAY?
