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guitarted
Chatterbox
Canada
487 Posts |
 Posted - 10/20/2004 : 4:43:12 PM
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Since threads these days seem to revolves around vices, thought I may as well discuss yet another.
Over the past year or so, I've really gotten into poker. I never play for more than 20 dollars Canadian at a time though, nothing too serious.
But playing 10-20 dollars can add up overtime. When you gamble with your friends it really doesn't feel all that bad though because it's social and fun and a great pre-bar activity (although, the bar implies more money being spent  )
I don't think the casino scene is for me, but I'm definetly fascinated by the concept.
I watched a 2 hour documentary on discovery channel about the MIT Blackjack group and it's incredible the depth that these guys went into to beat the casino.
Last story, my roomate decided to play some online poker and lost 150 dollars American in 2 days. Lesson learned there.
I'm sure some of you have some ridiculous stories about you or your friend's gambling habits, so lets hear them. |
Tim, come to Canada! |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2004 : 5:32:23 PM
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funny you should mention poker. every once in a while for the past year i've written little rants for my friends. i'd say maybe once a week. they seem to enjoy it. this week's was poker and why it still sucks. if you'll indulge me.
"poker: still sucks.
a year ago, if you had asked a bunch of friends if they wanted to play poker, they'd probably laugh and ask the question 'poker? who does that?' i've noticed that gets asked a lot. whenever some does something that doesn't fall into any of the big college 3 catagories (substance abuse, sex and the pursuit thereof, and tv/videogames) someone, ususally a girl, asked 'eh. who does that?' i do, bitch, and that's all you need to know.
but i digress. the thing is, a year ago, poker sucked. the only people who played it were old men and gambling addicts. and then all of a sudden, we're watching some douchebag who thinks he's the goddamn king playing it on the television. sure as shit, within the month everyone's playing poker. guys, didn't we already decide poker sucks? because i don't recall anyone ever playing it before. now, i know at this point one of you is going to say 'nah, bro. poker's sweet.' MERH. the game has not changed. it's the exact same thing it was last year when you never wanted to play it. and while we're at it, you can stop calling me 'bro,' now. i don't know where all this college boy "bro, brah, brother, man, dog" bullshit came from, but put it away. it makes me want to puke in my own mouth.
oh and another thing about poker: doesn't belong espn. i mean, it doesn't belong anywhere, but espn is last place it should be. poker isn't a sport. the rule is if stephan hawking can almost do it, it's not a sport. and he'd be really good at it. that's an invicible poker face right there. and you can never tell what he's feeling when we speaks anyway. couldn't we download him some voices other than that absurd microsoft sam voice? how much would you love to hear yogi bear talk about red shifts and black holes at theoretical astrophysics meetings?
add to this, it's a game of pure fucking chance. i know you'll say 'no, man. you have to keep a straight face and try to guess what the other guy's doing. there's a lot of psycology involved.' yeah, well there's a lot of psycology involved with figuring out why it is that people who deny the truth of the ladder theory the most violently are the ones who end up proving its accuracy the most through they're own actions and confronting them on it. no one's putting that on tv."
this one didn't go over so well because a lot of my friends play poker now. and say "bro" or "man" a lot. i did a tangent there on non-competition cheerleading being not a sport, but that's a little off topic. |
death to false metal. |
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SandyCarl
Try A Little Harder
81 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2004 : 10:31:10 PM
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| you said it brah |
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CPPJames
Yak Addict
Fyro Macedonia
800 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2004 : 09:42:31 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by dan p.
poker: still sucks.
Here we go disagreeing again Dan, back to the norm =). I've played poker for years, and while I'll admit there's a huge insurgence of interest due to the world series of poker on ESPN and the World Poker Tour on the Travel Channel, don't assume it was a dead game. It was practically an underground society until the whole media frenzy, but it was strictly card players. Now you get a HUGE assortment of people sitting at a table, when it used to be all white males between the ages of 21-60.
I love gambling, but I never go outside of my means. I play everything from No Limit Hold 'Em tournaments to Pot Limit Ohama Hi/Lo split games. As you obviously don't care for poker, I'd assume you don't play it. I'd also assume that you don't play it based on your statement that poker is a game of pure chance. Absolutely, unequivocally, no. Craps is a game of pure chance. Roulette is a game of pure chance. Blackjack is a game of pure chance (unless you're the MIT guys). Poker is NOT a game of chance, it's a game of mathematics. Yes, an individual hand is left up to chance. However, if you don't call huge bets with bad draws or because you're "feeling lucky", you stand to make a real nice profit. For the most part, I can calculate odds on the spot, and know whether chasing my flush draw is worth calling a $6 bet when the pot stands at $16.50. If you play conservatively and have the bankroll, you can make a living at it...guaranteed.
I play online quite a bit, but mostly in house games and casinos. The casino is a joke. They have the worst players EVER at the lower limit tables, until you reach at least $5/10 or $10/20. I don't really have $500 to risk on a $10/20 game, so I usually sit down with $250 at a $5/10 game. I fold until I hit one monster hand, get as many chips in the pot as possible and walk out.
Guitarted, sorry to hear about your friend getting cleaned out...it's happened to me plenty of times on "bad beats". But the long run is what I play for. My goal is to average about +$50 a day between online and the casinos. So far so good. Had one real bad run for a couple weeks but I've come back from that. Online I'm probably up in the neighborhood of $1500, playing small buy-in tournaments and $25 buy-in No Limit. I used to be really afraid of online gambling, but I watched it for a long time before I decided to play.
Out of curiousity, what site does/did your friend use, guitarted? |
There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those that understand binary, and those that don't. |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2004 : 11:13:28 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by CPPJames
Poker is NOT a game of chance, it's a game of mathematics. Yes, an individual hand is left up to chance. However, if you don't call huge bets with bad draws or because you're "feeling lucky", you stand to make a real nice profit.
maybe i'm misreading what you wrote, but it seems to me an individual hand is determined by chance, and as long as you don't call huge bets with awful hands, you can make money. so, as long as your hand is good, you can make money. a good hand is determined by chance. you can make good money by chance. i fail to see where math is involved. |
death to false metal. |
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guitarted
Chatterbox
Canada
487 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2004 : 11:35:45 AM
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Poker is a lot about scaring your opponent sometimes. If you've got a pocket pair, it's best to bet heavy before someone can get that flush they wanted 5 cards later. If you play well, you can scare people with the best cards out. The rush of a good bluff is excellent. Same as with a good call.
The other day I called my roomate's all in with a pair of 4's Ace high because i was so sure he was bluffing and it paid off. That risk I took was partially chance, yes, but I did it mostly because I've been reading the way he acts and bets.
Dan p. makes his points too though. On ESPN, there was this guy JAMES VOGL, who openly admitted he thought poker was all chance and a silly game and he preferred backgammon. He ended up winning a bracelet with that attitude. Poker really brings the wildest assortment of characters together.
For me, poker is more of a fun social game than it is a serious gambling opportunity right now.
If i went to a casino I think i's just play roulette and double everytime I lose. Maybe someone can tell me something wrong with this strategy because me and Jamie M are convinced it's flawless as long as you you are ready to double several times and aren't near the maximum.
CPP, my roomate played on PARTYPOKER. He's honestly a good player when he plays with us too. I think his whole strategy lies in his ability to intimidate us. He literally got raped online though... |
Tim, come to Canada! |
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CPPJames
Yak Addict
Fyro Macedonia
800 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2004 : 4:27:36 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by guitarted
If i went to a casino I think i's just play roulette and double everytime I lose. Maybe someone can tell me something wrong with this strategy because me and Jamie M are convinced it's flawless as long as you you are ready to double several times and aren't near the maximum.
CPP, my roomate played on PARTYPOKER. He's honestly a good player when he plays with us too. I think his whole strategy lies in his ability to intimidate us. He literally got raped online though...
First of all, Dan...the mathematics comes in determing what a good hand is. Knowing what the odds of hitting a draw are. Mentally determining what the hand your opponent most likely has and what his odds of folding to a bluff or outdrawing you, etc. are. People at casinos will play hands like 2-4 suited because they have money to burn and don't realize that 2-4 suited is about a 19% shot to win against a higher pocket pair. They will chase their flush draws until the cows come home because they go on gut feelings, when in reality it's only going to hit 34.5% of the time after the flop. Yes, you could in theory be dealt 2-3 over and over again...it's possible. But over the long run, math will catch up and the best player in the world and the worst player in the world will be dealt the same cards. It's how you play them that matters. If you fold everything but good cards, you are MILES ahead of most people who play at a casino. Why do you think the same 10 people make it to the final 4 tables of the World Series of Poker every year. Not because they're the luckiest guys in Vegas.
Einstein said there's no way to win at roulette. Einstein was right. Guitarted, there's an EXTREME flaw with that approach. Say you're at a table where the minimum bet is $5. You lose, double, lose double, etc. Say you go on the one, rare streak where you lose 8 in a row. $5, $10, $20, $40, $80, $160, $320...oh wait. You can't bet $320. You've hit the table maximum. That's the entire reason they have them. Oddly enough, it doesn't matter how high the table maximum is, you'll always lose if one exists. The only way that theory works is if you have no maximum. If you do the math, you're risking almost $1000 to win $5. 98% of the time you'll win. It's that one time you lose that will erase everything. And I'd like to see the look on your face when you have to drop $160 chasing a +$5 bet =). I wrote a computer program to simulate it once, it wasn't pretty.
I play on PartyPoker myself. You can easily get shelled playing there if you try to bluff people. The only way to win there is to wait for big hands or steal when the time is right. Do you know what type of limit he was playing? Probably $25 NL if he likes to bluff. They will call anything, trust me when I say you should wait for the right hands.
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There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those that understand binary, and those that don't. |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2004 : 10:49:06 PM
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| I agree with dan that poker is pretty lame. It would be fun to play back in the days of the old west with gunfights and all. Ya I know that's all a fantasy world but it would be cool. |
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Saint Jude
Alien Abductee
USA
2144 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2004 : 10:59:41 PM
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quote:
a I know that's all a fantasy world but it would be cool.
Not really, if you won, youd usualy get shot and your shit stolen. |
Remember, turn off your tv. Read. |
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guitarted
Chatterbox
Canada
487 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2004 : 02:56:24 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by CPPJames
Do you know what type of limit he was playing? Probably $25 NL if he likes to bluff. They will call anything, trust me when I say you should wait for the right hands.
haha right on the money, that's real funny (no rhyme or pun intended).
So nix on the NL games? what do you play? |
Tim, come to Canada! |
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CPPJames
Yak Addict
Fyro Macedonia
800 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2004 : 1:07:04 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by guitarted
quote:
Originally posted by CPPJames
Do you know what type of limit he was playing? Probably $25 NL if he likes to bluff. They will call anything, trust me when I say you should wait for the right hands.
haha right on the money, that's real funny (no rhyme or pun intended).
So nix on the NL games? what do you play?
I play a pretty wide variety. I started out with $25 NL, realized that people would call with anything. Waited for A-Q suited or better (any pocket pair) and got in for cheap. Waited until I was pretty damn sure I had the best hand and just started milking it. Made about $1000/month that way. Always played 3/4 tables at the same time, so that I wasn't tempted to play crap cards.
Then I went to $3/$6 7 card stud. This is a gold mine if you know what you're doing. Once again, playing "tight" is the rule of thumb anywhere on the site. Now I'm basically doing 3 $20/$30/$50 buy-in tournaments simultaneously of NL Hold 'Em. People tend to play better in tournaments, which actually helps. They'll fold to reasonable raises and you can steal pots occaisionally. Reason I play 3 is, if you take a bad beat in one or two, all you have to do is finish 2nd or 1st in at least one of them and you'll at least break even. If you get real lucky and win a couple of them, you stand to make a large profit. I make about $50/night on average playing tournaments. The $5 ones are a joke and you can almost always finish in the money there...but then again, you only clear $20 if you win it.
I'll occaisionally stumble into a $100 NL room, but it's on the rarer side. The reason for playing higher limits is not because you want to have that great night where you make $1000...it's because when "math" catches up and you're playing better than 90% of the people out there, the difference is more substantial in how much you make. The problem is, you need to have a reasonably large bankroll to take on something like 3 $100 tables simultaneously over time. Probably in the neighborhood of $5000 and a large amount of willpower to not go on "tilt". Tilt is the worst enemy, and if you can control/master it...you are absolutely golden in the long run. |
There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those that understand binary, and those that don't. |
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Saint Jude
Alien Abductee
USA
2144 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2004 : 2:22:40 PM
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So yea, i play poker as well. I can understand why it got so popular, and why people dont like it. It seams so simple and easy that anyone can win at it. And they can. But in the long run if you want to win you got to play consistantly. Thats why you always see the same people at the final tables in tourny's.
I play on pokerroom.com mostly. i have party poker as well, but dont like it as much as pokerroom. I started to play it a good bit the past 2 months or so. I started w/ 1k, now i have "Play Money: $144,712". Name is Saint Jude if you are ever on and see me. Think i have the same name on party poker. but yea.
I would like to get into tournys. but i need spare money to get that started, and i dont really have that.
anyway. so yea. thats that. |
Remember, turn off your tv. Read. |
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Gambling
