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Fluffy
Administrator
USA
10739 Posts |
 Posted - 01/05/2003 : 9:41:46 PM
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January 5, 2003
LEONARD PELTIER CASE SIGNALS WARNING
DURING CHANGING TIMES
Current Threats Posed By New Anti-Terrorist Laws
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An Account of How Unbridled Secrecy and Free Reign of Intelligence Agencies Destroyed a Movement for the Rights of Indigenous Peoples in the U.S.
A Talk by Attorney Bruce Ellison
Expanded wire tap authority, secret detainment, military tribunals, revocation of attorney-client privilege, secret searches, new definitions of terrorism to include non-violent dissent.... What does it all mean and what are the potential ramifications? Do these measures offer security for Americans? How has secrecy and lack of oversight resulted in abuses against civil rights activists in the past?
Attorney Bruce Ellison left New York in the 1970's to join the Wounded Knee Legal Defense Committee, a group of legal workers defending Native activists persecuted on the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation. Witnessing the Pine Ridge "Reign of Terror" and representing several Native activists unfairly targeted for crimes (including Peltier), Ellison has gained first hand knowledge of a justice system that operates under a double standard failing to treat Native people equally. He has researched, studied and documented the FBI's involvement on Pine Ridge and the FBI's activities against AIM. Perhaps more than any other, Bruce Ellison is familiar with the legal history of the Peltier case. Ellison has followed new anti-terrorist legislation and is eager to share his assessment. He warns, the abuses he witnessed in the seventies will likely be repeated if the measures are not met with strong opposition.
According to Ellison, the reasoning behind recent changes to law is reminiscent of that which gave broader authority to intelligence agencies during the 60's, resulting in civil rights violations to scores of private citizens, including Indigenous activists. As an extension of the FBI's Counter Intelligence Program, which illegally sought to eliminate domestic dissent, the FBI secretly labeled the American Indian Movement a terrorist organization, unfairly targeted its members for convictions, infiltrated its membership, and cooperated with vigilantes who attacked, beat, and killed several members and supporters. The legitimate grievances of the movement, including desperate poverty, police brutality, treaty violations, and discrimination were never addressed.
http://www.freepeltier.org/announcements.htm
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Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy         
"THE MUSIC BUSINESS IS A CRUEL AND SHALLOW MONEY TRENCH-- A LONG PLASTIC HALLWAY WHERE THIEVES AND PIMPS RUN FREE AND GOOD MEN DIE LIKE DOGS. THERE'S ALSO A NEGATIVE SIDE..." -Hunter S. Thompson |
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Fluffy
Administrator
USA
10739 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2003 : 2:55:04 PM
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If you think the actions of our govt in the 70's are a thing of the past, I would highly advise you to give this a read and see what you think. This account is from the EVERSO DANGEROUS Earth First! organization:
http://www.judibari.org/America's_Secret_Police.html
http://www.refuseandresist.org/big_brother/050298cointelpro.html |
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy
"THE MUSIC BUSINESS IS A CRUEL AND SHALLOW MONEY TRENCH-- A LONG PLASTIC HALLWAY WHERE THIEVES AND PIMPS RUN FREE AND GOOD MEN DIE LIKE DOGS. THERE'S ALSO A NEGATIVE SIDE..." -Hunter S. Thompson |
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Saint Jude
Alien Abductee
USA
2144 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2003 : 3:08:46 PM
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hopefully bush wont be re-elected. then things wont be as bad as they could be. But it will still be bad.
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Remember, turn off your tv. Read. |
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Fluffy
Administrator
USA
10739 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2003 : 05:28:40 AM
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| I hear his approval rating is finally slipping. Don't think it will matter much, he will have started a war with or without the support of the people of the US or our allies. Whatta DICK!!! |
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy
"THE MUSIC BUSINESS IS A CRUEL AND SHALLOW MONEY TRENCH-- A LONG PLASTIC HALLWAY WHERE THIEVES AND PIMPS RUN FREE AND GOOD MEN DIE LIKE DOGS. THERE'S ALSO A NEGATIVE SIDE..." -Hunter S. Thompson |
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victorwootenfan
Alien Abductee
USA
2128 Posts |
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Fluffy
Administrator
USA
10739 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2003 : 5:58:09 PM
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We knew he came from war-mongering stock, and he surrounds himself with war-mongering yes-men!! Should we really expect anything different from him. SAD BUT TRUE!!
Let's see:
Oil=Texas
Texas=Gov Bush
Gov Bush=War with Iraq
War with Iraq=Oil
HMMMMMMMMMM, very suspicious! |
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy
"THE MUSIC BUSINESS IS A CRUEL AND SHALLOW MONEY TRENCH-- A LONG PLASTIC HALLWAY WHERE THIEVES AND PIMPS RUN FREE AND GOOD MEN DIE LIKE DOGS. THERE'S ALSO A NEGATIVE SIDE..." -Hunter S. Thompson |
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PJK
Alien Abductee
USA
4159 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2003 : 6:12:24 PM
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Did I miss something or don't you believe Scott Ritter? I did't think Scott felt the war would be over oil? On(pg 68) of War on Iraq, What Team Bush Doesn't Want You to Know, he is asked if its about oil and he pretty emphatically says no.
Your thoughts Fluffy??? |
"It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!"Friedrich Nietzsche |
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Fluffy
Administrator
USA
10739 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2003 : 8:27:31 PM
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ST. LOUIS (Jan. 23) - President Bush hit the road to promote his economic plan -- and a new Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll shows he needs to do a much better job of it.
The survey shows a 49% plurality of Americans now disapprove of Mr. Bush's handling of the economy, while fully 61% doubt the administration's economic package will do much to stimulate economic growth.
Moreover, the president's centerpiece proposal to abolish taxes on stock dividends draws the weakest public support among a series of potential steps the government could take.
Those results, combined with public wariness about war with Iraq and diminished support for Mr. Bush's foreign policy, underscore the big challenges facing the president as he prepares for next week's State of the Union address.
"He's got a lot of balls in the air, and none of them is going particularly well," observes Republican pollster Robert Teeter, who conducts the Journal/NBC poll with his Democratic counterpart Peter Hart. Notwithstanding his party's midterm election triumph just two months ago, Mr. Hart adds, "As he goes into the State of the Union, the [political] wind isn't at his back -- it's in his face."
Appearing at a trucking and warehouse business here, Mr. Bush emphasized the benefits of his economic package for small business -- a sensible strategy, since about 84% of Americans in the Journal/NBC poll back tax incentives for small-business investment. He dismissed the "typical class-warfare rhetoric" of political opponents who have charged that Mr. Bush's economic plan offers inordinate benefits for the rich.
Unfortunately for Mr. Bush, the poll shows most Americans believe his opponents. By a 59%-31% margin, respondents say the package would "benefit mostly the wealthy" rather than "benefit all Americans equally." The public strongly wants action to spur the economy, but by a 42%-37% margin prefers a set of proposals backed by Democrats to Mr. Bush's package.
That sort of resistance has caused lawmakers in both parties to raise caution flags concerning Mr. Bush's plan since the president offered it earlier this month.
A 54% majority of Americans continues to support Mr. Bush's handling of his job overall. But that is down from 82% one year ago and from 62% one month ago, while the portion of those expressing disapproval of his performance has swelled to 40% from 33% in December.
The poll points to other challenges for Mr. Bush's domestic agenda. One of the administration's top domestic goals for this year is using market forces to overhaul Medicare while adding prescription-drug benefits.
Yet by a 59%-32% margin, Americans say Medicare could add prescription-drug coverage without an overhaul of the entire program.
In addition, the poll shows that the public, by a 58%-35% margin, opposes the prospect that the Supreme Court will overturn its Roe v. Wade decision legalizing abortion. Overturning Roe is a central goal of the Republican Party's conservative base, many of whose members Wednesday commemorated the 30th anniversary of that ruling with protests against abortion and received a supportive call from Mr. Bush.
The poll shows Mr. Bush continues to lead prospective Democratic contenders by double-digit margins, but that his advantage has declined in recent months.
Copyright © 2003 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
As to your question PJK, I don't agree with Ritters feelings on this, he makes a strong case against it, but I still believe that Gov Bush has oil at heart with alot of this that is going on. He comes from an oil family. If you read earlier in the book, before the interview segment starts(p. 15-25), Pitt lays out the strategic benefits of the area and why the US might feel a need to keep control of it. Oil is not one of the reasons he gives either but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand why that area is so strategically important. OIL As for Ritter's comments, he said something to the effect that the Iraqi Oil Minister promised to always look out for the US' interests and goes on to say that Iraq is not denying us oil. This may be true, but for how long? Bush must be asking himself that, especially as he escalates his so-called war on terrorism. He is not making alot of friends in the region. Whose to say that he isn't worried that the Iraqi Oil Minister's line might change. So we go in and do a HOSTILE TAKEOVER(war). In this case, an actual HOSTILE TAKEOVER to ensure our future oil supply from the region. As we have done so many TIMes before, we conquer and institute our own chosen leader who has proved he will not turn on us and then 20 years down the line he is the next public enemy #1. Of course these are just my thoughts and feelings on the matter, I encourage everyone to read about the subject and decide for yourself what you think. |
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy
"THE MUSIC BUSINESS IS A CRUEL AND SHALLOW MONEY TRENCH-- A LONG PLASTIC HALLWAY WHERE THIEVES AND PIMPS RUN FREE AND GOOD MEN DIE LIKE DOGS. THERE'S ALSO A NEGATIVE SIDE..." -Hunter S. Thompson |
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bethany
Is Anybody Here?
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2003 : 10:01:23 PM
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| Fluffy, If you have'nt checked out this book you should !!!! It's called " ...and the truth shall set you free " by DAVID ICKE. This is part of what it says on the back, "If you don't want your view of life to be transformed then steer clear of this book. David Icke exposes the real story behind global events which shape the future of human existance and the world we leave our children. Fearlessly, he lifts the veil on an astonishing web of interconnected manipulation to reveal that the same few people, secret societies and organisations control the daily direction of our lives. They engineer the WARS, violent revolutions, terrorist outrages and political assasinations; they control the world market in the hard drugs and the media indoctrination machine. Every global negative event of the 20th Century and earier, can be tracked back to the same GLOBAL ELITE, and some of the names involved are very well known. Icke reveals the esoteric background to the global conspiracy and offers an inspiring spiritual solution in which everyone on Planet Earth breaks free from the daily programming - the " Coup d'etat on the human mind " - and takes back their infinite power to think for themselves and decide their own destiny. " This is me talking know, it's a very eye opening book. You should read it if you have'nt ! PEACE ~...BETHANY |
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Fluffy
Administrator
USA
10739 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2003 : 10:37:41 PM
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I will have to check that out, sounds interesting and intriguing! Thanx for the tip, always love "new books and panties"!
(For everyone, that is a reference to Ian Dury of Sex, Drugs & Rock & Roll fame. His album, on Stiff Records, was called New Boots and Panties.) |
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy
"THE MUSIC BUSINESS IS A CRUEL AND SHALLOW MONEY TRENCH-- A LONG PLASTIC HALLWAY WHERE THIEVES AND PIMPS RUN FREE AND GOOD MEN DIE LIKE DOGS. THERE'S ALSO A NEGATIVE SIDE..." -Hunter S. Thompson |
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PJK
Alien Abductee
USA
4159 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2003 : 10:43:38 PM
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Hey Fluffy, thanks for your thoughts. My gut feeling is you are right but Ritter isn't the only one who feels that it isn't for the oil.I know I read something about where we get all of our oil from and there was far less than I expected from the middle east. Damned if I can remember where I read it though. I really hate when I read something and later want to re-read it and can't remember where I read it.
I just can't come up with any other reason Bush would go to war with Iraq. Lord knows it isn't to fight terrorism. The frightening thing is the expected casualties. This whole thing scares me to death! |
"It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!"Friedrich Nietzsche |
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PJK
Alien Abductee
USA
4159 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2003 : 07:19:24 AM
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So on the news this morning they said Iraq is threatening to use chemicl weapons if attacked. I just find that funny, because it sounds like little children...hey if you push me I'm going to smack you in the face......... I tend to believe Scott Ritter on this one. I don't think they have any or at least much in the chemical weapons dept. to do any real harm to invading soldiers. If they had some, why even say that??? As they say, alls fair in love and war and I would not make public any of my weapons if I was the leader of a country about to be attacked, unless ofcourse I was hoping threat would keep my country from being attacked.
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"It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!"Friedrich Nietzsche |
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Evergreen
Yak Addict
960 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2003 : 08:14:30 AM
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I thought this was a good place to post this link. Its a long reading
but very interesting. I heard Joyce Riley on Coast to Coast am. Used to be the Art Bell show. In case you didn't know Art Bell retired in December. George Noory took over his show and its still great. The stuff this woman was talking about really ruffled me up. She had alot of info on vaccines that we use here in the US and information about the ingrediants used in them that we are not told about. So I went on to look up research that has been done on things like mercury in vaccines labeled as thimerosol. They stopped using thimerosol in Europe yrs ago because of its known dangers. Gee, I wonder why the US continues to do it. Thimerosol is used as a preservative. It contains mercury which is one of the most dangerous substances to the human body.
According to Joyce Riley, there was an enormous amount of chemical weapons used on our soldiers during the last gulf war. One of my best friends was there and when he came back he began to experience many problems with his health. He was always the most healthy, in-shape, vigorous person and a few months after returning his body began having all these problems. many that we're described by Joyce. He was killed in a random act of violence 2 yrs ago so we won't ever know the source of his sudden breakdown, but it's pretty apparent.
http://www.all-natural.com/riley.html
Bethany, thanx for the book tip.It sounds like a good read and one to pass on to lots of people. |
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bethany
Is Anybody Here?
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2003 : 6:54:26 PM
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PASS IT ON FOR SURE ! ENJOY  As for you Frisky FLUFFY, ...  jUST KIDDING ! PEACE TO ALL ! ~... BETHANY |
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Fluffy
Administrator
USA
10739 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2003 : 7:00:00 PM
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Frisky Fluffy, I like that! HEHE
As a child, Frisky's catfood was my brand of choice!
(for my cats that is HEHE) |
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy
"THE MUSIC BUSINESS IS A CRUEL AND SHALLOW MONEY TRENCH-- A LONG PLASTIC HALLWAY WHERE THIEVES AND PIMPS RUN FREE AND GOOD MEN DIE LIKE DOGS. THERE'S ALSO A NEGATIVE SIDE..." -Hunter S. Thompson |
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bethany
Is Anybody Here?
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2003 : 5:17:46 PM
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I thought you might! HEHE! I'm sending pictures to the e-mail you sent me. I'm going to attempt to put one on my profile too!? Not many people do it. I wish they would so you could see who you're talking to. PEACE!OUT. ~...BETHANY    Hey FLUFFY?! , how do I put my picture on my profile ANYBODY HELP ! DRAMA just kidding BYE |
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pcbTIM
Alien Abductee
USA
6501 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2003 : 6:36:41 PM
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| I think most of us don't do it because we don't have a pic of ourselves.....or we don't have the equipment to upload on onto the internet (e.g. digital camera or scanner). |
Gay marriage killed the dinosaurs. |
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Fluffy
Administrator
USA
10739 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2003 : 02:11:27 AM
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| Hey Bethany, first you have to have a picture of yourself online somewhere. Then all you have to do is go to edit profile and insert the http address of the photo and thats it, voila, picture will appear. |
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy
"THE MUSIC BUSINESS IS A CRUEL AND SHALLOW MONEY TRENCH-- A LONG PLASTIC HALLWAY WHERE THIEVES AND PIMPS RUN FREE AND GOOD MEN DIE LIKE DOGS. THERE'S ALSO A NEGATIVE SIDE..." -Hunter S. Thompson |
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Fluffy
Administrator
USA
10739 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2003 : 2:04:14 PM
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pcbTIM commented: quote:
I think most of us don't do it because we don't have a pic of ourselves.....or we don't have the equipment to upload on onto the internet
For me, the photos have to be posted on the internet since I don't have a place to upload them too. Strangely, no websites post my personal pics. HEHE I can only post pictures I can link from somewhere else. I hope to one day have a website of my own. Of course I will still have no idea how to run it or post pics on it, so presently, it would still be useless. HEHE |
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy
"THE MUSIC BUSINESS IS A CRUEL AND SHALLOW MONEY TRENCH-- A LONG PLASTIC HALLWAY WHERE THIEVES AND PIMPS RUN FREE AND GOOD MEN DIE LIKE DOGS. THERE'S ALSO A NEGATIVE SIDE..." -Hunter S. Thompson |
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{=HTG=}
Alien Abductee
USA
2342 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2003 : 2:11:23 PM
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| hhhmm, i'm a bit thirsty.... |
'HTG, are you a cute girl?'
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{=HTG=}
Alien Abductee
USA
2342 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2003 : 2:12:58 PM
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Flaming Moe anyone? ? ? ? ?   |
'HTG, are you a cute girl?'
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Fluffy
Administrator
USA
10739 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2003 : 5:29:47 PM
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As a representive of the BOARD and the other BOARD members, may I remind of you #28 of the Unwritten Message Board Laws:
28. Flaming Moe's may only be posted on the 20th post of the first page of a thread. You cannot make previous posts to simply raise the post count up to 19, thereby granting yourself the ability to "pass out" a Flaming Moe.
See this topic for complete list:
http://www.timreynolds.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=971&whichpage=2
Now back to our regularly scheduled topic:
Worried about your civil rights?(see first post on this thread) |
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy
"THE MUSIC BUSINESS IS A CRUEL AND SHALLOW MONEY TRENCH-- A LONG PLASTIC HALLWAY WHERE THIEVES AND PIMPS RUN FREE AND GOOD MEN DIE LIKE DOGS. THERE'S ALSO A NEGATIVE SIDE..." -Hunter S. Thompson |
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{=HTG=}
Alien Abductee
USA
2342 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2003 : 5:56:44 PM
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| Thats funny...becuase i've done that for like the past 10..... Curses, foiled by Fluffy. *breaks away and runs* |
'HTG, are you a cute girl?'
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Fluffy
Administrator
USA
10739 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2006 : 2:26:11 PM
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Sep 12, 2006 10:46 AM from www.myspace.com/freepeltier
A Special Message from Leonard Peltier:
Greetings Sisters, Brothers, Friends and Supporters!
Well here it is another year. Another birthday. This one makes me 62 years old. Also this makes it my thirty plus years in prison. I believe it was right after I was illegally convicted in Fargo, North Dokota when I wrote a statement telling everyone that my freedom would only come after the masses had demanded it. But first we would have to unite and organize, to reach them.
So far we have been unable to do so. Yes we have reached millions who have signed my petitions we have circulated throughout the world asking for my release. True most of those good peoples are from Europe, but we have also made a lot of gains here in the United States. At one time we had fifty five(55) members of Congress sign a letter for a new trial or my release. Fifty-five members is historical. No other prisoner in history has ever been able to accomplish this, nor has anyone else, individually I mean, and there are other accomplishments we have made and won here in the United States.
Still I sit in prison not because I am guilty of the alleged crime I was illegally convicted of but because we still are unable to reach the masses here in America. The reason for this is not because the American people do not care or want to help, but because we have been unable to reach them. Personally I believe the majority of them do care and want to help. We sense this from the ones we are able to reach. We are moving forward very slowly in this freedom campaign of mine. The reason is we just do not have the financial resources to move forward at the pace we would like to be. This is the real and only reason that we have not been able to reach the people in the United States. Nothing is free here in America, not justice or the media. So although there is still no light at the end of the tunnel for me or my freedom, we continue struggling forward. I continue to search for the hope and strength I need to survive. I continue to pray and hope that one day I will get the support I need from the American people and one day I will still be able to walk out of prison. So my hopes and spirits are still high at my 62 years of age. I continue on this continued struggle. We are still finding bits and pieces of new evidence to file new appeals on. Those of you who have followed my case closely I can imagine are thinking How can this be, as there has been so many constitutional violations already. But the same old problem exists. The courts continue to cover up the continued criminal acts of my conviction committed by my prosecutors.
Your help is needed, Give what you can.
In the Spirit of Crazy Horse,
Leonard Peltier
NOTE:
We, at the Leonard Peltier Defense Committee, Bob Robideau, and Toni Zeidan and the Legal Team, Barry Bachrach, and Mike Kuzma thank you for your ongoing support. Lets Bring Leonard Home!
Donations can be sent for our ongoing Freedom campaign to the LPDC or
Freedomwalk!
LPDC Address:
LPDC
2626 N. Mesa .. 132
El Paso, Texas 79902
Or
Freedomwalk @: www.freedomwalk.com
You may be asking yourself, "What can I do?" Visiting the websites below and investigating further and if you agree, spreading the word could be very helpful at this TIMe.
TO LEARN MORE AND/OR SIGN THE PETITION, VISIT:
http://www.freepeltier.org/index.htm
Obviously they need to get the word out to Americans. It is sad that more europeans have signed the petition than Americans. Do American's just not care about injustice anymore? I don't think so, I just think that most aren't aware. The key is making more and more Americans aware of his situation. This can be accomplished by the simple task of adding LP's myspace page to yours so everyone who visits sees it and will maybe visit his page and get involved. Once again, LP's myspace page is:
www.myspace.com/freepeltier
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Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy
"THE MUSIC BUSINESS IS A CRUEL AND SHALLOW MONEY TRENCH-- A LONG PLASTIC HALLWAY WHERE THIEVES AND PIMPS RUN FREE AND GOOD MEN DIE LIKE DOGS. THERE'S ALSO A NEGATIVE SIDE..." -Hunter S. Thompson |
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PJK
Alien Abductee
USA
4159 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2006 : 4:36:56 PM
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Very interesting, I am definitely going to read more about him.
I'm also going to go back and read more of this thread. Interesting comments from early 2003. Reading my own comments was kind of a blast from the past, LOL. I have to run to class now but I will have to come back and take time to read this thread again! Nice to see it posted and updated. |
"It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!"Friedrich Nietzsche |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2006 : 12:38:21 AM
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I think the letter is right that freedom will only come when the masses demand it. It's really hard to get people interested in something like this or much less involved.
Anytime I ever try to express my views on the extermination, genocide, and autrocities commited and being commited against the natives here people just look at me like WTF? Almost as if to say don't you know your white? I think since this issue is so tied to the AIM movement and understanding why the original nations of this land want independence and freedom is such a large part of understanding the Peltier thing it's hard to get people into it. Otherwise they don't seem to understand that he's a political prisoner and what's really going on behind this.
Why is it people have an allergic reaction to the reality of the bad things that happen? |
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Fluffy
Administrator
USA
10739 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2006 : 04:17:11 AM
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| Hey Zachmozach, I agree with you to a certain extent but I also have to disagree a little. Yes, to you and I this is about an AIM activist who fighting for his people being quieted by the powers that be, BUT to the rest of America IT SHOULD represent a blatant abuse of power by the FBI and a plethora of govt organizations and the judicial system. This should scare EVERY American. If this could happen to LP it could happen to everyone. Yes the reasons they did what they did were directly attributable to his ties to AIM, but more importantly than his affiliation to AIM, is what they did to this man in THIS country and got away with it. Take away the indian aspect and what happened here is A MAN was unjustly imprisoned since 1976, even though government attorneys and courts acknowledge that the government withheld evidence, fabricated evidence, and coerced witnesses to fraudulently convict him. This itself should outrage every American. That our govt and legal system should get away with this should be a warning to everyone that if not kept in check they will do whatever they want with no repercussions. Try approaching non-indians about it like that because at it's basest that is how it affects all Americans. The indian side of it will unfortunately probably not interest most but as an example of how the FBI can run amok and do whatever they feel they need to do to convict someone to get them out of the way should outrage every American. |
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy
"THE MUSIC BUSINESS IS A CRUEL AND SHALLOW MONEY TRENCH-- A LONG PLASTIC HALLWAY WHERE THIEVES AND PIMPS RUN FREE AND GOOD MEN DIE LIKE DOGS. THERE'S ALSO A NEGATIVE SIDE..." -Hunter S. Thompson |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2006 : 11:48:30 AM
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Fluffy, I see what you mean. I think from a conversation with a friend about this specific subject in the past (LP). Everything was fine as I think they were asking about who he was and what the deal was. Then when I started explaining more along the lines of what you said with only briefly mentioning that he was a native and about the skirmish at pine ridge, and he was with me right up until I started talking about the FBI's power missuse and just the plain fact of something like this happening in the US. Then it was like talking to a wall. It was like since we have rights garaunteed to us as citizens then there is no way the US would ever abuse that. I think maybe in his eyes it sounded like I was accusing the whole government of fraud and such and that was too much. Then I tried harder to build my case for LP trying to explain that there was a reason behind the governments actions since it seemed he was in disbelief any branch of government would want to do this. He just shut down more though.
I probably need to change my approach when talking to people about this subject and quite a few others, but it just seems like everytime I have a case for the government doing something completely wrong, and it comes up in a conversation I end up talking to a wall. I shouldn't probably think that every conversation with everyone about this will go the same way, but it's just that most people just seem to have a disbelief our government would ever do that. |
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Robin
Yak Addict
USA
598 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2006 : 12:35:51 PM
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It has been my experience in discussing these types of issues that people get really defensive and deny vehemently, any action that could be seen as not protecting the "American" people.Even on a local level. As a forest activist among other things, I've been threatened for my outspokeness, and I'm pretty gentle in that area, other than to be passionate about what I know to be true.
Forget bringing up any Indian issue, that really puts people in a place of denial and it ends up being very annoying for me.
As for your rights, you have them until you disagree and decide to excersize them in a publuc arena, no matter how small. Free thinkers and people who question authority are not well recieved in our society. It doesn't stop me but I'm very aware, and watch my step.
I'm encouraged to see the discussion here and I support anyone who is brave enough to speak their truth,and to learn and be aware of others truth. Hardly anyone talks of Leonard's situation anymore,it's old news I guess.
His false imprisonment is a blatent example of how deep denial runs in this society. It's frustrating to me that people refuse to see it at all.
Fluffy's right about the point that it could happen to anyone.But unfortunatly I think that when it turns out the story is about an Indian...Peace, Robin |
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Fluffy
Administrator
USA
10739 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2006 : 5:47:20 PM
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| Try to get them to watch the movie Incident at Oglala, it lays it out pretty well even though it focus' alot on the Indian side of things, but it does show pretty well the lengths the FBI went to get LP into prison. |
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy
"THE MUSIC BUSINESS IS A CRUEL AND SHALLOW MONEY TRENCH-- A LONG PLASTIC HALLWAY WHERE THIEVES AND PIMPS RUN FREE AND GOOD MEN DIE LIKE DOGS. THERE'S ALSO A NEGATIVE SIDE..." -Hunter S. Thompson |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2006 : 7:18:21 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Fluffy
Try to get them to watch the movie Incident at Oglala, it lays it out pretty well even though it focus' alot on the Indian side of things, but it does show pretty well the lengths the FBI went to get LP into prison.
I think I may have watched this before. Thanks for the reccomendation, I'll look into it. I had reccomended the Ward Churchill books to my friend. I'm drawing a blank on the titles right now, but the one about the FBI and COINTELPRO and the indian "schools" one. |
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Fluffy
Administrator
USA
10739 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2006 : 02:03:19 AM
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| One is "Agents of Repression", not sure of the other. Most of them are listed on the LP myspace page I linked above. In fact there are alot of books and movies and alike as recommended reading and viewing. |
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy
"THE MUSIC BUSINESS IS A CRUEL AND SHALLOW MONEY TRENCH-- A LONG PLASTIC HALLWAY WHERE THIEVES AND PIMPS RUN FREE AND GOOD MEN DIE LIKE DOGS. THERE'S ALSO A NEGATIVE SIDE..." -Hunter S. Thompson |
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tericee
Alien Abductee
USA
2579 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2006 : 6:02:51 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Evergreen
She had alot of info on vaccines that we use here in the US and information about the ingrediants used in them that we are not told about. So I went on to look up research that has been done on things like mercury in vaccines labeled as thimerosol.
I used to work with a guy who didn't want his kids vaccinated. His attitude makes more sense to me now. |
teri
Twittering about the DC adventure since Dec '09...
(Micro)Blog * Photo Album
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Robin
Yak Addict
USA
598 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2006 : 8:21:57 PM
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| I can't legally tell my clients not to vaccinate thier kids, but I have a book I like to reccomend, called "The Vaccine Guide" by Randall Neustaedter. He's a licensed Acupuncturist and Homeopath. The book is endorsed by two reputable M.D.'s I like it because he lists all the ingredients in vaccines, and gives you the risks and benefits for them. He's obviously anti-vaccine but leaves the choice to the individual. I see a lot of small children that have never been quite well since vaccines. It's a weird controversy that surrounds the whole issue of whether or not to vaccinate. Peace, Robin |
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tericee
Alien Abductee
USA
2579 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2006 : 7:09:53 PM
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| I've heard that there are some schools who won't let your kids in if you don't get them vaccinated. I guess that sort of dictates home schooling for those who have reservations... |
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PJK
Alien Abductee
USA
4159 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2006 : 8:30:08 PM
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| I agree it would be a hard decission to make. While some children suffered permanent damage from vaccines, many others have died from the diseases themselves. My uncle died of polio. A boy in my son's kindergarten class died from complications from chicken pox. I am kind of glad I didn't know any better when I had my kids and never questioned the use of vaccines. Now, I am not sure what to think but I know I do not want a flu vaccine this year. |
"It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!"Friedrich Nietzsche |
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Robin
Yak Addict
USA
598 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2006 : 01:43:06 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by tericee
I've heard that there are some schools who won't let your kids in if you don't get them vaccinated. I guess that sort of dictates home schooling for those who have reservations...
Here in CA they have to let you sign a waiver for not vaccinating your kids. They don't like to make it known, and whenever I asked to sign it they scooted me off to the OTHER side of the bench LOL. My son is in a homeschool program within the public school system, it's really a great scene and they just whip out the form to waive vaccines no problem. You can be asked to keep your kid at home if there is an epidemic and they aren't vaccinated.
It's true that anyone can get a disease that they are not vaccinated for, but vaccines are not a garauntee.Plus the Chickenpox vaccine IMO is ridiculous, kids don't die from chickenpox, and we have no idea what this vaccine is doing to the population. It's really hard for my clients to expose thier kids now, because everyone is vaccinated. I don't think it's a good thing myself. peace, Robin |
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PJK
Alien Abductee
USA
4159 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2006 : 11:17:09 PM
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Good news/ bad news.
I just sat through another very boring three hour lecture on the Ottoman Empire tonight. That's the bad news.
The good news is that my professor told us that there will be two speakers coming to school and both fall on a Tuesday night. He thinks we should skip class and attend the lectures, so he cancelled class for Oct 10 and Nov 14. Woooohoooo!!!!!
The first one is a Muslim woman who is coming to speak about what is wrong with Islam today. Her name is Irshad Manji and she wrote the book The Trouble With Islam. The second, and the one I am really excited to hear is Scott Ritter, one of our former weapons inspectors, author of the book, What Team Bush Doesn't Want You To Know! These two lectures alone will be worth the money I spent on this class! I am a very happy camper tonight! |
"It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!"Friedrich Nietzsche |
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Fluffy
Administrator
USA
10739 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2006 : 07:50:17 AM
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Hopefully these will be as inspiring for you as the Noam Chomsky lecture was for TR. Did everyone see the pic of Chavez holding up the Noam Chomsky book? SWEET!!!
Does anyone smell sulfur? |
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy
"THE MUSIC BUSINESS IS A CRUEL AND SHALLOW MONEY TRENCH-- A LONG PLASTIC HALLWAY WHERE THIEVES AND PIMPS RUN FREE AND GOOD MEN DIE LIKE DOGS. THERE'S ALSO A NEGATIVE SIDE..." -Hunter S. Thompson |
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Robin
Yak Addict
USA
598 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2006 : 12:20:41 PM
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| OMG!!! That was soo funny,Peace, Robin |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2006 : 12:38:59 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Fluffy
Hopefully these will be as inspiring for you as the Noam Chomsky lecture was for TR. Did everyone see the pic of Chavez holding up the Noam Chomsky book? SWEET!!!
Does anyone smell sulfur?
Ya Chomsky has taken a beating in the press because of this. Not that is really a new thing. I mean he basically rips the press apart in his books. I'm wondering if that lecture was the one that got TR into Chomsky?
I remember a few years ago I had no idea who Chomsky was or in fact verly little about the social structures that control our lives. Then I read an interview with TIM talking about Chomsky and I had just read peoples history of the US by Zinn, amongst a few other interesting books and the ideas I was having about the way things work were so expanded upon by Chomsky and it opened me up to what I feel is a greater understanding of things. I just find it interesting how ideas and things get passed on and spread. |
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Fluffy
Administrator
USA
10739 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2006 : 5:56:26 PM
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quote:
I'm wondering if that lecture was the one that got TR into Chomsky?
Indeed it was and TR credits him as the co-writer of that song almost every TIMe he introduces it. The lyrics for "Indoctrinate" were taken directly from TR's notes from that Noam lecture. |
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy
"THE MUSIC BUSINESS IS A CRUEL AND SHALLOW MONEY TRENCH-- A LONG PLASTIC HALLWAY WHERE THIEVES AND PIMPS RUN FREE AND GOOD MEN DIE LIKE DOGS. THERE'S ALSO A NEGATIVE SIDE..." -Hunter S. Thompson |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2006 : 9:56:09 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Fluffy
quote:
I'm wondering if that lecture was the one that got TR into Chomsky?
Indeed it was and TR credits him as the co-writer of that song almost every TIMe he introduces it. The lyrics for "Indoctrinate" were taken directly from TR's notes from that Noam lecture.
That's so cool! I wonder if Chomsky knows about it. Probably not, but I can definitely see how this all worked out. |
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tericee
Alien Abductee
USA
2579 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2006 : 04:19:01 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by PJK
The first one is a Muslim woman who is coming to speak about what is wrong with Islam today. Her name is Irshad Manji and she wrote the book The Trouble With Islam. The second, and the one I am really excited to hear is Scott Ritter, one of our former weapons inspectors, author of the book, What Team Bush Doesn't Want You To Know! These two lectures alone will be worth the money I spent on this class! I am a very happy camper tonight!
I think it's funny (but cool) that the speaker you ended up being excited about was the "other" one you wrote about here. Did you enjoy the weapons inspector's speech?
teri :) |
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Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2006 : 08:57:20 AM
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Ritter is great, heard him on Democracy Now! a couple times along with a couple other programs. Very cool!
Chomsky's Hegemony or Survival also made the NYT Best Seller List because of Chavez's move. Never a bad thing when people read more Chomsky...I am deep into Failed States myself, what a piece of work!
I heard a good hour long interview with Bob Ribideau, Leonard's attorney a couple months ago on the Indiginous Voices program on BAI, and it's amazing how many stories he told of the same type of oppresion Leonard is facing, many times in the authorized execution of the scapegoat. It's an ungodly sad time we are living in.
Vaccinations? Take a look, at China's autism rates before and after the introduction of vaccines in that nation...a little uncanny... |
http://db.etree.org/hopefulrollingwaves/ < My Trading List |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2006 : 10:32:36 AM
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| Well thanks to PS 201 I've just had somewhat of an eye opener. That being that according to the bill of rights they don't care if you're factually guilty as long as you are treated fair and found guilty. I think in Leonard's case it's that he wasn't treated fairly and due proccess wasn't upheld. So ya there have been probably thousands put in jail wrongly or scapegoated like this, but in a lot of cases it's still legal. Just BS but legal. |
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Your civil rights? We've seen it B4 (PELTIER)
