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GuitarGuy305
Alien Abductee
USA
2007 Posts |
 Posted - 11/18/2002 : 10:16:39 PM
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Somehow I find it hard to believe that truer words were ever spoken.
Then again, it could just be my mood tonight, for I have not had a very good night.
I am reluctant to get into details...because, and I may be crazy, but I don't really like to burden others with my troubles, or whine, or tell my sob story. But the two friends that I could talk to about this don't really get it. The worst part is, is that it's about a girl, which is just a tired theme in my life, and countless others: a bad night caused by a girl.
I should clarify, she didn't cause my bad night, I did. She did not do anything. All she did was act a certain way, like herself, look a certain way, like herself, and be herself. It was I that fucked up...because I asked her out, and I should not have. I realize that now, and it seems that it is always after the fact that we realize what we should NOT have done, or what we should have done differently.
I first saw this girl some time ago, and was immediately drawn to her, in the way you're drawn to anyone that you are attracted to. I didn't know her, but I wanted to. The first night that I saw this girl, I went home and wrote a song inspired by a few different things, her undoubtedly being one of them. This is something I often do, when I truly feel inspiration by someone, something, someplace, I must write immediately, so as not to lose the moment. But enough of my songwriting technique, for it really does not effect the outcome of this story.
The girl works at a local grocery store, which is about 3 minutes drive from my apartment, so needless to say, I shop there quite a bit. In shopping there so frequently, I saw her a lot. The more I saw her, the more I wanted to talk to her, possibly ask her out. And I did talk to her, nothing big, the usual half-flirtatious banter you have with any check-out girl in the grocery store. I had hope that it meant more to her, unfortunately this hope was my first problem. The hope caused me to persue her, to ask her out, which you can probably guess did not turn out how I had planned.
I mulled it over, thought about it over time. I'm not the kind of guy that goes to a bar, a coffee shop, a mall, or a grocery store, and asks out any girl. I feel connections to certain girls, and I try to act on them. I don't believe in asking out a random girl that you think is "giving you the eye" as many guys do. I seek a deeper connection, so I try to sense the possibility for that connection in others. I believed this girl had it, I still do.
The problem lied in her appearance. She appeared cute and young, but not TOO young I thought. A friend and I were shopping there one day, I asked him how old he thought she was, and he told me, "Between 18 and 20." Being 20 myself, I wasn't discouraged by this, but perhaps I should have been...no, I definitely should have been.
Taking him at his word, and I am not passing blame to him, I believed to myself that she was between 18 and 20. Between 2 years younger than I am and the same age as I am. And my friend had also mentioned that he thought she was looking my way, or "checking me out" as he is so fond of saying.
This was bad, because it did nothing but boost my confidence, and give me more false hope. The false hope and false confidence would do me in, in the end of this all.
Tonight, November 18, 2002, I went over there. I had every intention of asking her out. And I did. After attempting a few times to get a chance to talk to her, I finally suceeded. And the only thing I succeeded at was talking to her...that is where my success ended. I wont bother you all with out complete, though brief conversation, but it involved me asking her to dinner sometime. She asked me how old I was, I told her my age: 20. She said that she is only 17, and that she would have to think about it. She then walked away from me, hurriedly it seemed.
First off, I need some opinions here on two things:
1) Is me being 20 and she being 17 a huge issue? A 3 year age difference, that could be somewhat shorter if she is closer to being 18? I'd really like some opinions on this. I know as far as sexually, it is against the law. But I promise you all that I had no intention of trying anything sexual with this girl. I am not that kind of guy and I cannot stress that enough. I'm talking about...if you knew a guy that was 20 and a girl that was 17 that were dating...would you see anything wrong with it?
2) Could the fact that she brought up the age thing simply have been a way out for her? I mean, could she have been racing to think of a way to say "no", and just brought that up because it seems pretty air tight?
3) Why is it that when you talk about asking someone out, whether or not you should do it, people say to do it because "What is the worst that could happen?" And when you do it..."the worst" feels worse than anything you've ever imagined. I'm sure it just feels that way because I don't ask girls out all the time, and the ones that I do ask out I put on a pedestal, which just makes it even worse.
4) Any opinions on where I should go from here? Because right now my mind is spinning and I don't know what to think, do, or say.
If you've gotten this far, I really want to thank you for reading all of this. Even if no one reads this, it still got it off my chest, which was really my only goal here tonight.
If you see me on AIM, go ahead and IM me...I could probably use a few kind words...
Damn what a sorry sack of crap I sound like....Jesus. It's not like someone died.
Thanks again to anyone that read this.
Adam |
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enthuTIMsiast
Alien Abductee
6990 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2002 : 10:49:47 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by GuitarGuy305
1) Is me being 20 and she being 17 a huge issue? A 3 year age difference, that could be somewhat shorter if she is closer to being 18? I'd really like some opinions on this. I know as far as sexually, it is against the law. But I promise you all that I had no intention of trying anything sexual with this girl. I am not that kind of guy and I cannot stress that enough. I'm talking about...if you knew a guy that was 20 and a girl that was 17 that were dating...would you see anything wrong with it?
In 40 years, 3 years will make no difference at all. Right now, it's illegal. Many, no hopefully most girls wouldn't even have this thought cross their mind, but a girl can get a guy into a lot of trouble (yes, I mean the legal kind) very very fast. And an age issue is probably one of the fastest ways. Don't bother saying she's not like that. I believe you already, there's no need. But just the possibility of something like that happening should throw up flags for you.
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2) Could the fact that she brought up the age thing simply have been a way out for her? I mean, could she have been racing to think of a way to say "no", and just brought that up because it seems pretty air tight?
If she had been really interested, she might have dropped her birthday to you, which obviously can't be more than a year away... Otherwise, I might have to say that that was her way out. But I would also say that it depends on how she said it, which is something that can never be communicated with printed words.
quote:
3) Why is it that when you talk about asking someone out, whether or not you should do it, people say to do it because "What is the worst that could happen?" And when you do it..."the worst" feels worse than anything you've ever imagined. I'm sure it just feels that way because I don't ask girls out all the time, and the ones that I do ask out I put on a pedestal, which just makes it even worse.
Maybe the worst thing that could actually happen is that she says yes. Then, when it doesn't work out down the road in months or years, your heart literally gets torn out of your chest and you are left begging for mercy from the gods of you-don't-even-know-what, because if you did, you wouldn't be in this situation. But I see your point. I've got nothing to offer for this one, sorry.
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4) Any opinions on where I should go from here? Because right now my mind is spinning and I don't know what to think, do, or say.
I say play the birthday card. If you think theirs a chance that you and her might have a chance, find out when her birthday is. If it's not far, then just ask her out for the third day past her birthday (birthday for a party, day after to recover, third day - your opportunity). If it's three weeks, then you're set. If it's six months and the thought that you can't wait that long even crosses your mind, then maybe you should reconsider how much you really like her.
quote:
If you've gotten this far, I really want to thank you for reading all of this. Even if no one reads this, it still got it off my chest, which was really my only goal here tonight.
I wholeheartedly agree that this is one of the best therapies there is. Hope you feel better no matter whether you read my comments or not.
quote:
Damn what a sorry sack of crap I sound like....Jesus. It's not like someone died.
Yes, actually it is like some one died. My uncle, 10:30 this morning, and it wasn't just "death," unless you consider someone planning and acting on the plans just "death." I didn't know him, so don't get all sappy on me, but he was my mother's brother, and I think she did love him, so it's hard on her and her sister. So I'll be going to a funeral sometime this week, and it will be very odd, considering that the uncle didn't die from what you might consider "natural" causes. |
Tim Reynolds Downloads
I am not the albatross of love, I am the human ellipsis. I am dot dot dot. - Leo Kottke
I hate beating people over the head with anything. We can all make up our own minds. What we don’t have is enough music. More music please. - Leo Kottke |
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GuitarGuy305
Alien Abductee
USA
2007 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2002 : 11:05:46 PM
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You know, I really think the only thing I can do now is continue to shop there. I mean, its not like I can avoid going to the store that is 3 min. from me by going across town to super wal mart, it just doesnt make sense. By continuing to shop there, she will most likely have ample opportunity to talk to me again, should she actually want to.
And if not, in retrospect of all of about an hour now, it's all just water under a bridge and no real skin of my nose.
The original post seemed to have been written in haste, because the experience was very fresh. Now it doesn't seem so bad. Odd how time, and playing some tunes on the ole' geetar will soothe the soul.
Adam |
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Silky The Pimp
Alien Abductee
3321 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2002 : 01:05:38 AM
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| I have to say... doesn't sound like she's into you. Sorry things didn't work out like you planned. I'd just keep shopping there and see if anything happens from there. |
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PJK
Alien Abductee
USA
4159 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2002 : 02:46:49 AM
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I think Jason (enthuTIMsiast)had great advice. Hope you feel better in the morning.
Jason, sorry about your uncle....don't know whats up with all the suicides...like they say, a permanent solution to a temporary problem.My uncle committed suicide years ago, he was my favorite uncle, lived in Colorado and went to a state park and shot himself in the head. I am just glad I told him and my aunt how much I loved them and how they were my favorite aunt and uncle only weeks earlier.
Can't say this was a bad night for me....actually one of the best. Just saw Peter Gabriel in concert...2 row seats....I am on such an adrenalin rush from it but I must get to bed...got to get up in 2 1/2 hours for work! They played from 9- just before midnight!
Take care all |
"It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!"Friedrich Nietzsche |
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Silky The Pimp
Alien Abductee
3321 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2002 : 03:08:21 AM
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| Woops, didn't see the last part there. Sorry to hear Jason. |
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enthuTIMsiast
Alien Abductee
6990 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2002 : 08:15:13 AM
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| No, no. My uncle didn't commit suicide. Someone hastened the end of his life, he didn't do it himself. |
Tim Reynolds Downloads
I am not the albatross of love, I am the human ellipsis. I am dot dot dot. - Leo Kottke
I hate beating people over the head with anything. We can all make up our own minds. What we don’t have is enough music. More music please. - Leo Kottke |
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Xar666
Yak Addict
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2002 : 10:41:48 AM
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| oh what |
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therippa
Fluffy-Esque
Kazakhstan
1099 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2002 : 12:34:35 PM
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If you're 20, then you are probably pretty mature and responsible. Do you REALLY want to date a girl that's 17? The age difference is negligible (albeit illegal, but that's a whole different issue that probably wouldn't be one), but the "life experience" difference is a great and could cause a lot of problems. I'm 21 and have problems finding 21-year-old girls that meet my standards of maturity. I would suggest trying to find someone closer to your age just so you don't have to deal with bullshit high school issues, the fact that you can't take her to a 18+ club, her weekday schedule, her weekend curfew, the possibility moving hours away to go to college when she graduates, etc.
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Aspiring to Be Fluffy-Esque an Alien Abductee! |
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enthuTIMsiast
Alien Abductee
6990 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2002 : 1:21:06 PM
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| You could always just stalk her. |
Tim Reynolds Downloads
I am not the albatross of love, I am the human ellipsis. I am dot dot dot. - Leo Kottke
I hate beating people over the head with anything. We can all make up our own minds. What we don’t have is enough music. More music please. - Leo Kottke |
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therippa
Fluffy-Esque
Kazakhstan
1099 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2002 : 1:37:20 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by enthuTIMsiast
You could always just stalk her.
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Aspiring to Be Fluffy-Esque an Alien Abductee! |
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enthuTIMsiast
Alien Abductee
6990 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2002 : 2:14:31 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by therippa
Nothing to say? I understand. |
Tim Reynolds Downloads
I am not the albatross of love, I am the human ellipsis. I am dot dot dot. - Leo Kottke
I hate beating people over the head with anything. We can all make up our own minds. What we don’t have is enough music. More music please. - Leo Kottke |
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therippa
Fluffy-Esque
Kazakhstan
1099 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2002 : 2:17:13 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by enthuTIMsiast
You could always just stalk her.
Shit...that's the second time the forum has done that to me.
Anyways, what I meant to say was...
Stalking is such a harsh term...I prefer "arranging encounters" |
Aspiring to Be Fluffy-Esque an Alien Abductee! |
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PJK
Alien Abductee
USA
4159 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2002 : 2:18:39 PM
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Sorry Jason, it was almost 3am and I had been up since 5:30 and had gone to the concert so I probably shouldn't have been responding to anything on the message board as tired as I was.....soooo sorry I misunderstood, but I am still confused. I am sorry to hear he died however it happened.
Only had 2 1/2 hours of sleep, but I am surprising not tired. I bet I will be tonight.
Again sorry |
"It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!"Friedrich Nietzsche |
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GuitarGuy305
Alien Abductee
USA
2007 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2002 : 10:30:53 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by therippa
I'm 21 and have problems finding 21-year-old girls that meet my standards of maturity.
You know, I would hazard to guess that a majority of the guys on this board have the same problem, most seem pretty mature for their ages.
I know exactly what you're talking about, and you make great points. People always think I am like 25 because of how I act, and I always take it as a compliment.
Adam |
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enthuTIMsiast
Alien Abductee
6990 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2002 : 11:05:02 PM
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I guess I'm the immature one here. And I'm ok with that.
PJK, someone took my uncles life, he didn't do it himself. |
Tim Reynolds Downloads
I am not the albatross of love, I am the human ellipsis. I am dot dot dot. - Leo Kottke
I hate beating people over the head with anything. We can all make up our own minds. What we don’t have is enough music. More music please. - Leo Kottke |
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pcbTIM
Alien Abductee
USA
6501 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2002 : 02:40:42 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by enthuTIMsiast
I guess I'm the immature one here.
That's OK, you sort of balance us out. Hehe..... |
Gay marriage killed the dinosaurs. |
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Fluffy
Administrator
USA
10739 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2002 : 10:50:26 AM
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Hey GG305, Here are my thoughts on the subject:
As far as the age thing goes, I have found age to be unimportant. For me it has alot more to do with what I call "commonalities". What do you have in common? Are you like-minded? Do you share similar interests? etc etc etc. Remember that a 3 year difference seems so drastic at 20, but when you are 50 a 3 year difference is almost negligible. The bigger problem with the difference at the age of 20 has to do with something that has already been mentioned, maturity and life experience. I have dating folks younger than myself always end due to the same problems. I meet someone, we go out, find we have "commonalities" but at some point they are ready to explore their life. They want to experience things I have already gone thru. I find we are at different places in our lives. They are still exploring and trying to figure out what they want to do, whereas I have done alot of those things and am further along the road to self discovery. So while we have lots in common, we are looking for different things at this point in our lives. That part definitely makes it hard when you are looking for a future and they are still exploring theirs. It should not be hard for us to understand this if we stop and think about it. Afterall, we were there once, at 17 did you know what you were going to do with your future? At 17 you probably hadn't even lived away from home yet. You are still discovering yourself and what you want to do with your life and your future. As you get older, you will find at 3 years difference isn't so important in that development, but I would say between 15 and your early 20's is far to early to know what you are doing with your future. As you get older you discover these things and say by 30 a person 27 might be on the same page as you even though when you were 20 and they were 17 that same 3 year difference would have a more drastic effect on a potential relationship. Keep in mind, there are exceptions to every situation I have laid out above, so I wouldn't cut yourself off from dating people younger than you, just go into it knowing what I have learned from past experince. I wish I had realized this when I was younger as it would have helped to alleviate alot of heartache when a relationship didn't work out. We were just at different points in our life no matter how much we had in common. It has only been with TIMe that I have been able to examine past relationships and why they didn't work. By the same token, all the past relationships have helped me to find myself and what I want out of life and so none of those experiences can be discounted. I believe you will find that what you want now will be different when you are 30. It may not be drastically different but things will change and you will change.
Next, it is possible she brought up the age thing as a way out, but as I have found, you will never know until you talk about it with her. Communcation is the most important tool we have as humans. Keep in mind, you may have caught her off guard, she might have been embarrassed. It could be many things, she may already have a boyfriend. You will never know unless you talk to her about it. Unfortunately, if you do you have to be ready for the possiblity that she is not interested, but at least if you talk to her, you will know the answer instead of having to wonder about it and agonize over the possiblity.
Next, the worst thing that can happen is you get rejected. Rejected is always painful. NOONE wants to be rejected, but unfortunately it is a fact of life. We have to learn to deal with the rejection. To do this, I find it helps to like yourself. You have to know you are good person and maybe you just aren't compatible with the object of your affection. A relationship has to be a 2 way street, the other involved has to want you back as much as you want them or it will never work. So you keep searching to find that special someone who connect with in that special way. If you don't date and take chances you might never discover that person. So the worst that can happen is you might be rejected. It won't kill you(although sometimes it might feel like it)but the pain and embarrassement of rejection are really the worst that can happen. As you have already learned, that passes very quickly. I wish you luck in your future relationships and want to impress upon you the importance that you learn from all relationships and experiences you might have. Even bad experiences and relationships can be profound learning experiences. |
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy         
"THE MUSIC BUSINESS IS A CRUEL AND SHALLOW MONEY TRENCH-- A LONG PLASTIC HALLWAY WHERE THIEVES AND PIMPS RUN FREE AND GOOD MEN DIE LIKE DOGS. THERE'S ALSO A NEGATIVE SIDE..." -Hunter S. Thompson |
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Silky The Pimp
Alien Abductee
3321 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2002 : 11:13:18 AM
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| Wow... that is exactly what I was thinking... I just didn't have the patience to put it down so coherently. |
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SpaceMonkey
Chatterbox
315 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2002 : 11:16:16 AM
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On age:
First off, my views on age were skewed for a long time because of my parents. You see, there is a thirty, I repeat thirty year age difference between my father and mother. She is 55, he is 85. Pretty fucking weird, huh? I'm 24. That's right, his sperm was still working at 60. So when it comes to adults, I cannot argue with age differences because I have seen it work out for my entire life.
Now, in the case of minors, age is no small peanut. No matter how good they look, they are dealing with things bodily and psychologically that we as adults usually do not worry about. No matter what they may say, and how mature you may think they act, I personally believe that minors are off-limits. My basis for this conclusion isn't based solely on this post. I'm currently getting my certification to teach high school English. As part of this program I do observations at a local high school, and I also substitute teach occasionally to make some extra cash.
These experiences have given me a unique perspective on adolescents and how their heads work, etc., etc. Bottom line: it's not worth it. When you're adults it's much easier to see things on the same level because you have the experience of growing up and you now share similar responsibilties (job, family, etc.). Teenagers, meanwhile, have a very different worldview and are infinitly more self-absorbed than adults. If you don't believe me think about all the dumb shit you worried about in high school that you can laugh at now. With teenagers there are enormous differences between 15, 16, 17, and 18 year olds, mostly because of all the crazy development that's going on at these specific ages. On the other hand, once you get to your early 20s, from there age becomes less of a factor because people's lives are in many regards becoming more stable.
If you're nice to them now, it may lead somewhere down the road, but overall it's a bad idea to get involved with them on an intimate level and I would not suggest wasting your time courting the young'uns. You'd basically be doing them a disservice and they'd most likely drive you insane with their incessant worry over insignificant stuff.
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Fluffy
Administrator
USA
10739 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2002 : 3:27:32 PM
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| Thanx SpaceMonkey, you expanded quite eloquently on what I was TRYING to say. I hope all this helps with your questions GG305. Let us know what you think after you have read it all. Lots of good advice has been offered on your questions and comments. |
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy
"THE MUSIC BUSINESS IS A CRUEL AND SHALLOW MONEY TRENCH-- A LONG PLASTIC HALLWAY WHERE THIEVES AND PIMPS RUN FREE AND GOOD MEN DIE LIKE DOGS. THERE'S ALSO A NEGATIVE SIDE..." -Hunter S. Thompson |
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PJK
Alien Abductee
USA
4159 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2002 : 3:50:39 PM
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Wow...great insite Fluffy and Spacemonkey. My husband is 13 years older than I am. Things have gone along pretty well but the past 7 years have been rough...somewhat due to age but more of how we feel about life. I am always dreaming, creating goals, learning....I am sooo big on learning.(I am taking up playing the Tabla because I just want to learn to play them!!!!I love the sounds they produce and I have such a stong desire to be learning something all of the time!) I remember one time when my kids were little I shouted "that's it, I must watch the discovery channel!!!! I need Knowledge!" Weird yes, but that is how I am.
My husband isn't into much of anything. He thinks music and Country are synonomous. He has no hobbies and no dreams.....so without going into more detail basically we are set up for disaster.
I thought it was an age thing, but don't think so now. I think it is more of an attitude thing....how one looks at life.
Back to the topic though, I do agree age doesn't make much difference as an adult but as a teenager it makes huge differences. Be careful. |
"It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!"Friedrich Nietzsche |
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GuitarGuy305
Alien Abductee
USA
2007 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2002 : 10:08:15 PM
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Some really great points here, which have really gotten me thinking.
Funny thing is this: I have now decided 17 is too young for me, and that I wasn't so much upset that it didn't work out, but that I asked out a 17 year old in the first place, and have all but gotten over this whole thing...But now that I have come to this realization, I know, becasue this is the way things work in my life, bass ackwards, the next time I go into that place she will have reconsidered, and it will open up a whole new can of worms....that hopefully won't end up with me doing 5 to 10. [:D}
To clarify, I was upset for two reasons, one being that I was disappointed that she was only 17, when we seemed to have a lot in common and everything, two being that I mistakenly asked out a 17 year old, which is a bit embarrassing.
If she were to reconsider, I would probably tell her that I am not really comfortable dating a 17 year old, which is the truth.
Adam |
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Fluffy
Administrator
USA
10739 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2002 : 04:19:59 AM
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| Sounds like a wise decision, given the circumstances. See what I mean about things not hurting as much given a little TIMe, distance and thought. Things could be much worse. Thank goodness they are not. HEHE |
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy
"THE MUSIC BUSINESS IS A CRUEL AND SHALLOW MONEY TRENCH-- A LONG PLASTIC HALLWAY WHERE THIEVES AND PIMPS RUN FREE AND GOOD MEN DIE LIKE DOGS. THERE'S ALSO A NEGATIVE SIDE..." -Hunter S. Thompson |
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Life Sucks, Then You Die (long post, sorry)
