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Jay
Alien Abductee
Vatican City
2279 Posts |
 Posted - 11/19/2007 : 6:50:00 PM
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I vote, YES!
Here's how I see it. Who the Hell WANTS to be a landscaper? I am by necessity and the fact that I have a guaranteed posistion. But the job sucks entirely. Anyone who's put in a 15 hour day of building waterfalls or installing beds or even mowing will agree with me there...and if you disagree, you must own a fucking landscaping company and sit at home raking in the cheddar.
Now, we've got a Mexican on our crew, Jose. He paid $2000 dollars to sneak across the border and somehow landed in Painesville (if anyone reading this lives in NE Ohio, you know how many Mexicans there are in Painesville.) He's been here for almost three years, he lives in a house with about twenty other "illegals" (why not say "un-documented?"), I think he sleeps on the floor. He survives on $600 a month, which is about his weekly pay. The rest goes to his parents in Mexico. Jose bought them a house, a $50,000 dollar house which is pimp shit where he comes from. He's a year older than me, 21.
And this guy WORKS. I mean, he is on top of things from the first second to the last, never complains (the rest of us certainly do!) and always does an excelent job. He always helps out with whatever problems come up, if I slip in the mud it's Jose's hand that pulls me back up. And this dude is seriously funny. Most of it is very situational humor, but he can make you laugh yourself to tears with one word. And he's always happy.
He knows a lot of English, he understands better than he speaks although he always chooses the right words (normally he inserts "fuckeeng" and "sheet" to great effect.)
Anyway, from what I understand from many conversations with other 'scapers is that most Mexicans are like Jose. They know how lucky they are to be here. I was bitching about work today, and Jose looks at me and says, "You're lucky for this, let me take you to Mexico!" And that made me feel so much better.
Illegal or not, he's doing a job that not many Americans would like to do (and the ones that do it don't WANT to), making our neighborhoods look pretty and nice and worth $700,000 dollars because he has to survive, and he can't in Mexico. To anyone that has anything against Mexican immigrants, I ask you to put yourself in their shoes and realize that they are doing what they have to do to survive, or at least make things nicer back home. I think that these politicians need to realize that the world's people do not make six figures a year, that that is unattainable by most people, and that borders mean nothing when you are starving. These people are not here to make themselves rich. Or to steal our jobs. They are true survivors, and God Dammit I will respect that to the last drop of conciousness. |
"Hey man...you smell..."
"Oh yeah?"
"yeah...like dinner..." |
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rubylith
Fluffy-Esque
1915 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2007 : 11:55:25 AM
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Right on brother, great story.
I think the problem lies that we need to make it easier to get here legally, and harder to get here illegally. Without a border, we have no country. Now I agree, most Americans, are fat, lazy, wealthy turds and hire Mexican slave labor to build their castles. I say, lets kick out the aristocrats, the monopoly men, the rich elite, and replace them with, smart, funny, talented imingrants. For every one elite we kick out, lets bring in one immigrant, that's fair to conservatives and liberals alike, right?  |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2007 : 6:53:38 PM
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we call them illegals because they're here illegally. it seems like the basic trains of thought are either "let's round up them immergrints before they take more of our jerbs" and "undocumented immigrants should just be allowed."
allow me to be exactly like south park for a second and say both are wrong. the problem with group a, the jerbs group, is that you can't do that. you can't round them all up, and you can't build a huge fucking fence or whatever dumbass idea it was to keep them out. the reason they're "taking your jobs" it two-fold. first, they're willing to do it for cheaper. that's the big one. even if you and an illegal immigrant were equally matched for a job, a company will take the less expensive. secondly, and this is a generalization, they probably do these jobs better than you anyway. so how do we fix it? the free market will. if enough people don't like the practice of a company hiring an illegal, they won't shop there anymore. the company will lose money and either change the practice or go under. either way. quit bitching about them dern mexercins takin' up yer jerbs and start affecting the world around with the only thing that really matters in business and economy: money.
the other side of the coin is to just let them in and/or don't bother the ones that are in here. people don't understand why other, legal immigrants as well as 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th generation immigrants, get pissed at illegals. it's real fucking simple, and i don't get why it isn't universally understood. they're illegal. them being here is breaking the law. that's why they get deported. because it's illegal. don't like that law? try to get it changed. quit bitching and do something about it. also, ratting out an illegal immigrant is a shitty thing to do, unless he's done something to you. |
death to false metal. |
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enthuTIMsiast
Alien Abductee
6990 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2007 : 10:51:19 PM
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| I mowed yards all day 5 or 6 days a week one summer. I loved it. I am not Mexican. |
Tim Reynolds Downloads
I am not the albatross of love, I am the human ellipsis. I am dot dot dot. - Leo Kottke
I hate beating people over the head with anything. We can all make up our own minds. What we don’t have is enough music. More music please. - Leo Kottke |
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Ranting Thespian
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2007 : 11:03:15 PM
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| What is wrong is not our borders. What is wrong is Mexico's economy. They are leaving Mexico because it sucks, the land and government just is sometimes not even there it seems. It isn't as "evil" as the Bush administration, but just fucking dumb and let it all go to shit. What should be done is help Mexico's economy! Of course ours comes first, because without it ours would fall completely apart trying to help. You make a better Mexico, more people will want to stay. |
Not communicating can hurt more than any word that can be said -
Nick
-the Ranting Thespian |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2007 : 12:54:15 AM
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| it doesn't help that we subsidize corn real hard, so farmers grow a shit-ton of it, then we dump the very cheap excess corn on mexico and fuck mexican farmers over in a big way. |
death to false metal. |
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Ranting Thespian
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2007 : 03:06:31 AM
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| Hence another reason why we have to get ourselves together before dealing with our neighbors. |
Not communicating can hurt more than any word that can be said -
Nick
-the Ranting Thespian |
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Arthen
Alien Abductee
USA
4845 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2007 : 12:46:59 PM
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When did it become our job to help other countries? Helping to create a better Mexican economy is one step above trying to "install" democracy in Iraq. We shouldn't be "all up ons" any other country.
My roommate is a volunteer advisor with a "Youth and Government" program, which is a program here in CA that lets High Schoolers learn about legislation. They write bills, vote on them, etc. One of the bills was to create a gauntlet/obstacle course on the border between Mexico and the US (in this case, it was CA specific). And if they can make it through the obstacle course, they are allowed into the country legally. It made me laugh. |
Steve Hackett: "I'm my own opening act, you see."
Tim (before "Faceoff"): "Peace, love....and SEX!"
cbenc41@hotmail.com |
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Jay
Alien Abductee
Vatican City
2279 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2007 : 4:51:28 PM
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Well, I understand that they're here illegally, and they wish they weren't (of course!) I've seen and heard so much racism and hate towards the Mexican workers and I just don't understand it. And actually, most Mexicans doing landscaping make just as much as American landscapers.
I think that the root of this problem is that in America, the emphasis is on making as much money as possible so that you can sit around in your fancy ass house and have anything you want. I don't care what anybody says, sitting behind a computer all day is not physically demanding. It may be stressful, yes, but it is not laborious. There are so many doctors and lawyers and buissnessmen who make so much fucking money that they can buy seven huge houses that they can't even re-sell or rent. And yet there are still homeless people everywhere, and we have such a surplus of big, new, fancy houses that no one can sell them. How fucking sick is that? People are too lazy to cut their own grass, they'd rather pay 50 bucks a week to have it done for them byMexicans who come here illegally because Americans, by definition, are rich lazy assholes who think with their wallet. Bleh, Happy Thanksgiving. |
"Hey man...you smell..."
"Oh yeah?"
"yeah...like dinner..." |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2007 : 7:51:55 PM
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| What's funny is a lot of our ancestors where the first illegal immigrants. We draw these imaginary lines on a map and have all these imaginary constructs like nationalities and race. Then we live our lives consuming so much of the earth's resources. That's what it's really about. Exploiting resources for profit. Screw legality. It's not right for people to exploit other people and land so they can sit around on their asses and think we're rich consuming like we're middle class americans buying all our stuff made from asia and assembled in mexico so we can buy it cheaply and let about 10% of our people live well. It's not about immigration. The "free market" will take care of it. It's built it and in 50 years mexicans will probably no longer be a minority. That's what globalization is about. If you're going to consume all the products at the expense of other people then don't complain about it though. |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2007 : 11:32:14 PM
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i'm not complaining about that. what the fuck do i care what group of people is coming in and doing jobs that i won't ever take? i'm well trained and i have a good education; unskilled labor isn't in the cards for me, so it's not my concern. i don't give a shit if it's some mexican or an american doing those jobs. it amounts to the same thing. from a strictly legal standpoint, though, illegal immigrants shouldn't be here. but guess what, they are, and you can't make them all go away. why would i bitch if mexicans weren't a minority in 50 years? what difference does it make?
i was complaining about the two trains of thought i mentioned. the first is short-sighted, lazy, and whiny. the free market will determine if it's an important problem or not, and fix it if it is. you can't reasonably disagree with it. the second train of thought seems to ignore that a law's being broken at all, which is weird to me. when someone does something illegal and are caught, they incur punishment. it's really a very basic concept. it would be stupid to try to attempt to catch them all, as if they were pokemon, but if an illegal is caught, there's no reason to not send him back and/or make him go through the legalization process. |
death to false metal. |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2007 : 12:28:28 AM
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| Sorry I think in my comment read like I was saying you were complaining. I didn't mean to. I agree almost completely with what what you posted. Especially the pokemon comment. Haha! I guess I was merely complaining about the general attitudes towards immigrants I've encountered. I guess I just see immigration as a non issue since it's kind of the by product of a resource distribution problem that has plagued our societies for years. Right now it's immigration and before it was slavery and the "native problem". It's about exploitation and cheap labor. I just don't really buy into all this us and them made up nationalist BS and it doesn't really sound like you do either dan. |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2007 : 12:39:54 PM
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| you're right though, none of this shit is new. everytime there is a wave of immigration, nobody likes it. mexicans are basically the new irish. |
death to false metal. |
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Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2007 : 1:09:04 PM
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What we really is need to withdrawal all of our unnecessary non-peacekeeping troops from every country around the globe and station them here to secure our borders to stop illegals from entering, not to persecute profiled groups of American citizens.
We have long enough wasted innumerable resources bullying the world in the name of political gain (read: culminating fear and aggression). It's time to realize the social issues in THIS country have reached a very tense crescendo, and that we need to concentrate on these important domestic issues, and maintaining our own "democracy." (read: Constitutional Monarchy) |
http://db.etree.org/hopefulrollingwaves/ < My Trading List |
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gnome44
Yak Addict
749 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2007 : 2:18:12 PM
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My feeling is that a lot of what people have against immigration usually stems from some form of racism.
I seldom here people talk about the "illegal" Canadians in our country... And no one really considers if the bloke with an Australian accent might be here illegally.
People suck. |
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Arthen
Alien Abductee
USA
4845 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2007 : 5:44:18 PM
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| I think we feel a subconscious and rudimentary sense of camraderie with Canadians and Australians since we were all owned by the British at one point. |
Steve Hackett: "I'm my own opening act, you see."
Tim (before "Faceoff"): "Peace, love....and SEX!"
cbenc41@hotmail.com |
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gnome44
Yak Addict
749 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2007 : 7:35:35 PM
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| What about Indians (from India)? |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2007 : 12:02:32 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by gnome44
What about Indians (from India)?
india and australia are a long way a way and it probably doesn't occur to people that they can even get here any other way but legally. they can't just sneak over a boarder.
and let's face it, the reason people don't mind australians and canadians because they're white and mostly speak english. |
death to false metal. |
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Arthen
Alien Abductee
USA
4845 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2007 : 1:59:55 PM
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| And because of Bryan Adams, Celine Dion, Men at Work, Paul Hogan, and (RIP) Steve Irwin. |
Steve Hackett: "I'm my own opening act, you see."
Tim (before "Faceoff"): "Peace, love....and SEX!"
cbenc41@hotmail.com |
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gnome44
Yak Addict
749 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2007 : 5:11:39 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dan p.
and let's face it, the reason people don't mind australians and canadians because they're white and mostly speak english.
That's right...people are racist... |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2007 : 9:56:59 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Arthen
And because of Bryan Adams, Celine Dion, Men at Work, Paul Hogan, and (RIP) Steve Irwin.
valid reasons for never talking to canada and australia again. |
death to false metal. |
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Arthen
Alien Abductee
USA
4845 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2007 : 12:42:29 AM
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Ha ha ha ha. Yeah.
I always think of that line from the South Park Movie: "We've already apologized for Bryan Adams on several occasions..." |
Steve Hackett: "I'm my own opening act, you see."
Tim (before "Faceoff"): "Peace, love....and SEX!"
cbenc41@hotmail.com |
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Ranting Thespian
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2007 : 01:25:34 AM
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Ok, there is a BIG difference between what I said, and what the Bush Administration are doing. They just went there, and took control. Then they did what they pleased. They decided they should be a democracy like us, and all that other shit.
What I was suggesting was to HELP, not take over. And when you help, the person who you are helping asks for it, or takes it when offered. I never said about going into Mexico and putting our ideals and our "ways" into their government. I am just saying help, not take over, help.
By the way, I love the gauntlet idea. Screw the whole immigration process, and just build gauntlets! |
Not communicating can hurt more than any word that can be said -
Nick
-the Ranting Thespian |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2007 : 2:20:24 PM
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| gauntlets of scry person? you could keep track of them like that. you can scry the wearer 3 times per day as a level 10 caster using a "scry person" spell. |
death to false metal. |
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Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2007 : 5:23:42 PM
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| then it's a good thing i'm doing that. |
death to false metal. |
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Mexicans?
