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vflowers
Is Anybody Here?
USA
1 Posts |
 Posted - 08/25/2007 : 7:18:25 PM
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Is anybody a Chickasha Indian? I posted before with no answer.
Lets talk.
Vicki Flowers
firrea2004@yahoo.com |
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PJK
Alien Abductee
USA
4159 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2007 : 8:07:03 PM
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Hi Vicki. This really should have been posted on the "Friends" side, but Fluffy can move it over when he has TIMe.
This is kind of a strange first (or second) post on a message board about TR, but again, that's OK.
FLuffy might be Chickasha Indian. He is Native American but I do not know what his tribe is.
Robin, another member is also Native American, but from a different tribe as well.
I am "Swiss" American but very interested in Native Americans, particularly the Lakota tribes.
I for one, wouldn't mind learning about the Chickasha tribe. |
"It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!"Friedrich Nietzsche |
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Ranting Thespian
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2007 : 01:40:44 AM
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I know I have some native american blood in me, but no clue what tribe or such. Then again I don't want to know, because I don't even like saying I'm white. I try not to classify myself by skin or by relatives, or anything other than human. Now I think I am getting a little deep for this post, well, that's me.
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Not communicating can hurt more than any word that can be said -
Nick
-the Ranting Thespian |
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Fluffy
Administrator
USA
10739 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2007 : 3:22:37 PM
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I know of 3 Chickasha(or Chikasha or in English Chickasaw) Indians on this board. Myself, Tericee(my sister), and tbjinv(my brother Brian). I actually received your email a while back and have saved it with the intention of answering but I have just been so busy. We are all 3 descended from Nelson Chigley as you asked in your email. Chigley is the family name. From the story listed below it seems Joe Hollenbeck thinks that Moses Chigley Jr was the last of the Chigley line.
http://www.chickasaw.net/site06/about/print/index_1894.htm
I looked into ways of trying to contact him but nothing panned out. Since then I received your email and was surprised to see that you claim relations to Nelson as well. How exciting, the family just grows and grows. I spent a little TIMe with Moses just before his death in Sulpher Springs. We also went by and checked on his house in Davis for him as well. He and Wanda had house that I remember visiting as kids(Teri & I).
Guess we are getting a little detailed here for a message board and for a topic that is not really "TRelated" LOL. Feel free to email me again and you can cc Teri and Brian as well if you like. I told Brian about this thread but I don't know if Teri has seen it. I assume not since she hasn't chimed in. I will forward her a link to the thread as well.
Links for PJK who wanted to learn more:
Chickasaw is a Western Muskogean language spoken by about 1,000 people mainly in Oklahoma. The majority of the speakers are over 50 years old: the younger generation are drifting towards English. Despite the similarities between Choctaw and Chickasaw, most Choctaw speakers find the latter unintelligible.
During the 17th and 18th centuries Chickasaw was used as a lingua franca among all the tribes of the lower Mississippi river. The Chickasaw were one of the five Civilized Tribes forcibly removed to Indian Territory (now Oklahoma) in the 1830s. The other Civilized Tribes the Cherokee, Choctaw, Creek and Seminole.
Sample text in Chickasaw
Himmaka' nittakookano hattak yokasht toksalicha'nikat ki'yo. Hattak mómakat ittíllawwi bíyyi'kacha nanna mómaka ittibaachaffa'hitok.
Translation
All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
(Article 1 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights)
http://www.native-languages.org/chickasaw.htm
Official website of Chickasaw Indians:
http://www.chickasaw.net/site06/index.htm
Other links to check out:
History of the Chickasaw
http://www.tolatsga.org/chick.html
Chickasaws: The Unconquerable People
http://mshistory.k12.ms.us/features/feature40/chickasaw.html
and of course:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chickasaw
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Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy         
"THE MUSIC BUSINESS IS A CRUEL AND SHALLOW MONEY TRENCH-- A LONG PLASTIC HALLWAY WHERE THIEVES AND PIMPS RUN FREE AND GOOD MEN DIE LIKE DOGS. THERE'S ALSO A NEGATIVE SIDE..." -Hunter S. Thompson |
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tericee
Alien Abductee
USA
2579 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2007 : 5:27:02 PM
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| Looks like you pretty much covered it. I'm not sure what the whole deal with Chickasha and Chickasaw is, but I think they are basically the same thing; one is simply "Anglicized." |
teri 
Twittering about the DC adventure since Dec '09...
(Micro)Blog * Photo Album
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mcshack
Is Anybody Here?
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 10:09:32 PM
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Joe Wyatt (Shackelford) Hollenbeck was my half-brother. Joe passed away on August 3, 2008 at the Carl Albert Indian Hospital in Ada, OK. Joe had two sons, Joe Wyatt, Jr. and David Allan and one daughter Susan along with seven grandchildren and one more on the way.
My father was married to his mother, Garnet Pocahontas Chigley, daughter of Wyatt Chigley, son of Nelson Chigley. Nelson Chigley was a full blood Chickasaw Indian born in Mississippi and founded the town of Davis, I.T. around 1850. He built the Chigley Mansion where my father delivered Joe in an upstairs bedroom on September 21, 1939. Joe was the oldest living direct descendent of Nelson Chigley and the last Chigley heir to live in the Chigley Mansion. Wyatt Chigley passed away at the house in 1939 before Joe was born.
My father, Fay Hillary Shackelford sold the house to a man named Percy Jones from Texas after his wife Garnet died and had to put my brother up for adoption by Joe's cousin Juanita (Young) Hollenbeck and her husband Jacob Elmer Hollenbeck. Juanita was the daughter of Nancy Colbert Young, the sister of Lizzie Belle (Young) Chigley who was married to Joe's grandfather Wyatt Chigley. They lived near Gene Autry (Berwyn), Oklahoma.
My father owned the City Drug Store in Davis and remarried my mother, Vye King, who still lives there on Chigley Street about a block from the Chigley Mansion in a senior housing project. I was raised in Davis very near the Mansion and lived across the street from Mose Chigley, Jr., who I called my uncle, even when we were not really related, he treated me like a son. When he died in 2001, I believe that he was the last living "Chigley" on the face of the earth who descended from Nelson Chigley as my brother Joe said in anther post.
Mickey Shackelford
Nelson Chigley |
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rubylith
Fluffy-Esque
1915 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2008 : 11:57:07 AM
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| What an interesting post! |
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platinumwingangel
Is Anybody Here?
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2008 : 7:40:10 PM
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I am Adrianne one of his ggggg grand daughters. I visited the mansion in 1999 or 2000 and a man named B.J. Wigley and his wife Connie said they owned the mansion and were using it as bed and breakfast in Davis, OK. Wanted to tear down the mansion and use the 7 acres for a zoo...
Somehow it got out of the family..
Any comments? |
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platinumwingangel
Is Anybody Here?
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2008 : 7:57:41 PM
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| My family line comes from one of his daughters Agnes Chigley. The Talley line Fay Talley Hoffman, Agnes's daughter. Agnes married W. W. Talley,(Scots/Irish) recorded in Tishomingo marriage records on or about the 1900s. I do not know anything about Agnes..She had two sisters, Eliza and maybe Mary was a daughter too. My grandmother was Mary Agnes Hoffman Burris. I do not have the family history with me here in Kentucky to confirm it but I did a complete search in the archives in Oklahoma City all the way to Ft. Smith, Arkansas and found a wealth of information..Also did some property search on the mansion. It seems somewhere that the courthouse burned and documents destroyed? Or so, I was told....I know alot about my ggggg grandfather! He was a good Indian! Sure would be nice to have that house go back to the family members. |
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platinumwingangel
Is Anybody Here?
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2008 : 08:50:53 AM
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| Does anyone know where my grandpa Nelson Chigley was buried? I |
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platinumwingangel
Is Anybody Here?
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2008 : 12:00:00 PM
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According to Chickasaw Indian Nation, couldn't "only" a Chickasaw sell or buy Grandpa Chigley's mansion or rather, wouldn't it go back to the Chickasaw nation should all family members die? I think I read that someplace...
If there are any other Chickasaw citizens as myself, please advise.
Thank you.
Adrianne |
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mcshack
Is Anybody Here?
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2008 : 10:48:39 PM
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Hello Chickasaws!
My father inherited the house from his wife Garnet Pocahontas (Chigley) Shackelford, daughter of Wyatt Chigley and granddaughter of Nelson Chigley when she passed away in 1949. He was unable to take care of the large two-story house, run his drug store in town 6 days a week for 10 hours a day while raising a ten-year old son (Joe Wyatt Shackelford Hollenbeck). None of the other Chigley relatives wanted (or could afford) the large house and surrounding acreage, so my father had to sell it to pay off medical debts, etc. As far I know, it has not been in the hands of a Chickasaw since that time. My father tried to buy the house back some years later when I was a child, but the owner did not want to sell. The house was built around 1890 and was the largest house in town for many years.
The Wigley's were the most recent owners as far as I know and now want to sell the house and property. They are not related to the Chigleys, nor are they of Chickasaw blood as far as I know.
It would make a great B&B, but better yet a Native American Indian "working farm" or "living farm" and/or "learning center" and/or "crafts center" and/or museum of the local Native Americans who lived in the area.
Maybe call it the Chigley Chickasaw Mansion since it practically served as a boarding house for runaway, problem, homeless, poor or otherwise needy Chickasaw Indian children for many years. Either way, it is a great part of the Native American Indian history of the area that should be preserved at all reasonable costs.
I will post more on the Chigley history and history of the house later. I am also writing some individuals by e-mail that have contacted me after my post about Nelson Chigley.
Mickey Shackelford
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platinumwingangel
Is Anybody Here?
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2008 : 11:02:16 PM
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| You are exactly right! The Chigley mansion does need to be preserved. I would love to have that house. I am Nelson's ggggg grand daughter Adrianne Webb. |
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mcshack
Is Anybody Here?
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2008 : 11:13:26 PM
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Maybe we can buy it and run it ourselves?  The asking price is in the $180k range as I understand it.  I will be there Thanksgiving to check it out and let you know what I find. It would be nice if the Chickasaw Nation would buy it and make some sort of Naive American Indian museum or something similar for future generations to enjoy and learn of the history, since Nelson was 1) Full blood Chickasaw, 2) THE Founder of City of Davis in Chickasaw Nation around 1850, 3) A member of the Chickasaw Nation Legislature (Senate) and once served as "Acting Governor" 4) Father of Wyatt Chigley who also served on Chickasaw Legislature. 
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platinumwingangel
Is Anybody Here?
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2008 : 09:29:33 AM
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| It would be GREAT if the Chickasaw Nation bought the house. I would be honored to have any part in Chigley Chickasaw Mansion! |
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platinumwingangel
Is Anybody Here?
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2008 : 10:29:33 AM
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| It was my understanding from B J Wigley that he has tried to bargain with Chickasaw Indian Nation using this mansion. |
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mcshack
Is Anybody Here?
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2008 : 4:13:13 PM
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Maybe the Wigley's did know all of the history, or who the right people to talk to like the 2 current legislators that are related to Nelson Chigley (Tim & Scott Colbert).
THE CHIGLEY MANSION
Rare opportunity to own a piece of Davis history! 2800 sf Chigley Mansion all on 7 acres inside the city of Davis. This home has been remodeled and is absolutely gorgeous. 5+ bedrooms, 3bath. Would make perfect B&B or just a nice home for the large family.
Address: 210 N. 5th St., Davis, Oklahoma 73030
Listing Number: 4121 - Price: $189,000
Beds: 5, Baths: 3, Floors: 2, Year Built: 1800's
Square Feet: 2,800, Lot Size: 7 ac
More photos at: http://home.comcast.net/~mcshack/site/?/photos/
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mcshack
Is Anybody Here?
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2008 : 5:04:55 PM
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Here are the members of the Chickasaw Legislature 1905-1906, Tishomingo, Indian
Territory. (Oklahoma)
Sitting left to right: Joe Brown, Joe Colbert, Dixie Colbert, Amos Hays, Dan
Collins Sr., G. W. Young, Governor D. H. Johnston, Martin V. Cheadle, Henry
Grimslade, Joe Myers, Elias Filmore, Dave Seeley, Newton Johnston.
Standing left to right: J. L. Thompson, Joe Guess, Nelson Chigley, M. C.
Murray, E. H. McDuffy, Ben Collins, James McCurtain, Dan Collins Jr., A. S.
McDonald, C. W. Colbert, Louis Seeley, W. F. Hume, W. T. Ward, Frank C. Smith,
O. D. White, Wall King, Martin Newberry, C. H. Brown, George Colbert, G. A.
Melton, Joe Burris, Robert Imotycha.
More pictures, Chigley Family and Chickasaw information here:
http://home.comcast.net/~mcshack/site/?/home/ |
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platinumwingangel
Is Anybody Here?
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2008 : 5:35:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by mcshack
Maybe the Wigley's did know all of the history, or who the right people to talk to like the 2 current legislators that are related to Nelson Chigley (Tim & Scott Colbert).
THE CHIGLEY MANSION
Rare opportunity to own a piece of Davis history! 2800 sf Chigley Mansion all on 7 acres inside the city of Davis. This home has been remodeled and is absolutely gorgeous. 5+ bedrooms, 3bath. Would make perfect B&B or just a nice home for the large family.
Address: 210 N. 5th St., Davis, Oklahoma 73030
Listing Number: 4121 - Price: $189,000
Beds: 5, Baths: 3, Floors: 2, Year Built: 1800's
Square Feet: 2,800, Lot Size: 7 ac
More photos at: http://home.comcast.net/~mcshack/site/?/photos/
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platinumwingangel
Is Anybody Here?
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2008 : 5:40:16 PM
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How do you suppose these owners may feel if they discovered they are most probably living on a sacred family burial site for Nelson Chigley and some family members? Moreover, wonder how the Chickasaw Nation would feel about it?
Not much respect for such a fine man? Or an honorable Indian nation!
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platinumwingangel
Is Anybody Here?
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2008 : 5:45:13 PM
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As Nelson Chigley's ggggg grand daughter, Adrianne Webb, I now "claim" Chigley mansion as family property and most probably sacred family burial site!
quote:
Originally posted by mcshack
Maybe the Wigley's did know all of the history, or who the right people to talk to like the 2 current legislators that are related to Nelson Chigley (Tim & Scott Colbert).
THE CHIGLEY MANSION
Rare opportunity to own a piece of Davis history! 2800 sf Chigley Mansion all on 7 acres inside the city of Davis. This home has been remodeled and is absolutely gorgeous. 5+ bedrooms, 3bath. Would make perfect B&B or just a nice home for the large family.
Address: 210 N. 5th St., Davis, Oklahoma 73030
Listing Number: 4121 - Price: $189,000
Beds: 5, Baths: 3, Floors: 2, Year Built: 1800's
Square Feet: 2,800, Lot Size: 7 ac
More photos at: http://home.comcast.net/~mcshack/site/?/photos/
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platinumwingangel
Is Anybody Here?
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2008 : 6:42:42 PM
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September 11, 2008
Governor Bill Anotubby
Dear Governor Anotubby,
My name is Adrianne Webb, registered Chickasaw citizen and ggggg grand daughter to the Honorable Nelson Chigley who served on the legislature of this fine Chickasaw Nation during his lifetime. I am sure you are probably familiar with his life’s work within the Chickasaw Nation in Davis, OK and Turner Falls, OK.
It is my understanding that the Chigley Mansion my grand father built is now for sale and I am appealing to the Chickasaw to please consider bringing this mansion back into the hands and control of the Chickasaw Nation.
It is also in my thoughts that this property as well is a family burial site. I was told that by my mother. It most probably is also be a burial site for the Honorable Nelson Chigley.
I have not been able to locate his burial site and find that quite peculiar since he was so well known. It is my thought that he may even be buried within the house between the two bedrooms where the hallway was sealed. Or it may be a passageway sealed because he was buried under the house. I visited the house in 2000 or 2001 and learned from BJ Wigley that when he moved there these rooms were sealed off.
I pray for your intervention and to bring the Chigley Chickasaw Mansion back into the hands of the Chickasaw Nation.
As Nelson Chigley’s ggggg grand daughter, I claim all rights due in honor of my grand father Nelson Chigley.
Your attention and help in this matter will be greatly appreciated.
Respectfully,
Adrianne Webb
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Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2008 : 8:43:32 PM
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I'm not a Chickasha, but I certainly empathize with your cause.
Until it nationally recognizes and repairs for its genocide of this land's indigenous peoples, this country will continue to damnation. The terms 'Native American' and 'Indian' I find highly offensive as a 'white' person, so I can imagine how those of you with native blood feel.
Best of luck to you in reclaiming a piece of your history. |
http://db.etree.org/hopefulrollingwaves/ < My Trading List |
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Arthen
Alien Abductee
USA
4845 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2008 : 02:39:40 AM
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| Note to self: move to OK. A house that size with that much land out here would be anywhere between $500,000-$2million depending on the area. |
Steve Hackett: "I'm my own opening act, you see."
Tim (before "Faceoff"): "Peace, love....and SEX!"
cbenc41@hotmail.com |
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platinumwingangel
Is Anybody Here?
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2008 : 11:12:59 AM
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There is a reason why no one has profited from this home and land.
The mansion belongs back into the hands and/or of the Chickasaw Nation and Nelson Chigley's heirs. It is just as simple as that...
I thank everyone for their input.
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platinumwingangel
Is Anybody Here?
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2008 : 11:32:59 AM
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Nelson Chigely also had a daughter named Eliza Chigley Pierce, Agnes Chigley Talley and maybe one named Mary Chigley.( I do not know anything about Mary). I am a descendant from that line of Fay Talley Hoffman,my great grandmother who died in Wilson, OK. Her daughter Mary Agnes Hoffman Burris who also died in Wilson,Ok. |
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platinumwingangel
Is Anybody Here?
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2008 : 09:47:57 AM
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Agnes Chigley Talley died when she was 28 years old. Married to
W. W.Talley a Socts/Irish man. He had red hair my mom said. She possibly died 1888. That would explain why there is not much history about Agnes Chigley. And, why my grandmother is named Mary Agnes Hoffman Burris. Named after her aunts. As, I was told by my mother. I would like to know how she died and where she is buried also. Could it be she may be buried on Chigley mansion estate? As well as Mary Chigley? |
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mcshack
Is Anybody Here?
USA
7 Posts |
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platinumwingangel
Is Anybody Here?
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2008 : 3:14:11 PM
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I just find it highly unlikely Nelson Chigley would have committed suicide. Devoted to others... Contributed to the building of churches...Take in orphans... Sorry, can't convince me....I also found such a nice write up about Grandpa Nelson Chigley at the Oklahoma Historical Society in OKC about his death, and how he died peacefully at home. It was not in a "newspaper" a written epitaph.
That butchbridges newsletter in Ardmore, OK website is evidently not about history, but more "gossip". Much cheesier than those "smut" magazines found on the news stands. The mentality of which....
The L-rd is the "only" one who knows for sure about circumstances surrounding Grandpa Chigley's death and place of burial.
Still don't understand why "no" burial place of such a prominent man in the community was ever mentioned. Maybe Grandpa just wanted to rest in peace and maintain his privacy.
It is a "pity" or rather a "sin" when "gossip" draws more interest than "facts". There again..."mentality" of which....
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platinumwingangel
Is Anybody Here?
USA
16 Posts |
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mcshack
Is Anybody Here?
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2008 : 10:40:31 PM
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First of all, it was me that wrote the story printed on the Oklahoma History Net website and it was an effort to learn how he died and where he was buried. There were always rumors about suicide, murder and strange deaths associated with the property, whether the stories were true or not, the fact remains that the stories exist to this day. Nelson Chigley died November 12, 1922 at home after a short illness. His funeral was at the house on Nov 13, 1922. This is directly from the front page story of Nov 16, 1922 in the Davis News. My great-uncle Fay Crossett was the editor and publisher of the Davis News at the time and probably wrote that story which includes a lengthy obituary that ran three pages in a single column.
Now, with that said, I know for certain that Nelson's son Wyatt did commit suicide inside that house in 1939. Wyatt was also a great person, caring for others, etc. He also served on the Chickasaw Legislature after he went to law school. He also adopted orphan children and raised them in his home as his own. He also helped the community in many ways as his father did. Unfortunately, it is sometimes those type of people who do take their own lives for whatever reason. I have even heard stories that Mose Chigley, Sr. committed suicide on that property as well after the stock market crashed in 1929. I have not looked into that one as of yet, been too busy with Nelson and Wyatt.
I have a continuing story at OklahomaHistory.Net each week that is based on information that I have acquired through hours of research that is intermixed with the story as I know it. I don't write dates, causes of death or similar such things without some backup. A story written by someone at the Oklahoma History Society is not backup, however an obituary that appeared on the front page of a local newspaper is considered a good source. I have researched the Ok Hist Soc site in the past and not ran accross the story that you mention, but would love to see it.
Peace to all,
Mickey Shackelford
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tericee
Alien Abductee
USA
2579 Posts |
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Chickasha Indians
