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SpaceMonkey
Chatterbox
315 Posts |
 Posted - 02/14/2007 : 10:06:01 AM
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| Wondering if any of you fantasy/sci-fi fans have read the Thomas Covenant books or the Gap Cycle. Just curious. |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2007 : 2:51:35 PM
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| can't say as i have. but now i'm going to check it out. thanks! always looking for more wizards and warriors. |
death to false metal. |
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SpaceMonkey
Chatterbox
315 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2007 : 09:30:21 AM
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I am not a huge sci-fi/fantasy person. I haven't read any of the LOR books, which I feely badly about, and I just read Dune this past summer (that was awesome).
A friend of mine got me into the Thomas Covenant series, which I enjoyed. It's actually a lot like Star Wars, in that there are 3 trilogies comprising the series. Here, I believe, the books were released in their proper sequence. I've only read the first trilogy which was released in the late 1970s. The last trilogy was only rleased recently.
SRD is really dark. Thomas Covenant is basically about a successful writer who gets leprosy, loses everything, and then gets transported to another world where he is immediately recognized as the savior of the world. Lots of fucked up twists, but not as many as there are in The Gap Cycle, which is even more twisted. |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2007 : 12:17:29 PM
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i don't talk to people who haven't read lord of the rings. get the fuck out of my face. hahahaha.
but seriously. you should read it. |
death to false metal. |
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SpaceMonkey
Chatterbox
315 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2007 : 12:18:52 PM
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| Only recently have I been able to talk about my LOR-less life openly... |
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Arthen
Alien Abductee
USA
4845 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2007 : 1:37:42 PM
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| Reading fantasy without reading Lord of the Rings is like building a house without a foundation. |
Steve Hackett: "I'm my own opening act, you see."
Tim (before "Faceoff"): "Peace, love....and SEX!"
cbenc41@hotmail.com |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2007 : 2:06:08 PM
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| arthen is right. lord of the rings really is the foundation upon which all modern fantasy is built. and if you want to go even further back, judeo-christian, norse, and greco-roman mythologies are the basis for lotr. |
death to false metal. |
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Arthen
Alien Abductee
USA
4845 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2007 : 9:15:52 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dan p.
arthen is right. lord of the rings really is the foundation upon which all modern fantasy is built. and if you want to go even further back, judeo-christian, norse, and greco-roman mythologies are the basis for lotr.
Concurred.
I can't remember for sure, but are there any one-eyed characters in the Tolkien universe for an Odin kind of reference, Dan? |
Steve Hackett: "I'm my own opening act, you see."
Tim (before "Faceoff"): "Peace, love....and SEX!"
cbenc41@hotmail.com |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2007 : 10:07:56 PM
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no, not really. gandalf was most like odin in appearence, but as far as power and station goes, you'd have to look at manwe. just as odin was the sort of leader of the gods, manwe is, too. the only difference there is that manwe has no lineage. that is, he was created by eru, whereas odin, i believe, has some giant in his background. and, now that i think about it, manwe and melkor were considered brothers in the eyes of eru, and so are odin and who the trickster god that starts ragnorak is.
much of the cosmology of tolkien's universe is drawn from norse myth. the idea that melkor will return and there will be a final battle that destroys middle-earth is exactly like ragnorak. both have a hall of the dead, mandos in tolkien and valhalla in norse. and in both, dead heros will come back to fight.
i could go on for pages. |
death to false metal. |
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SpaceMonkey
Chatterbox
315 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2007 : 10:55:02 PM
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On a LOR-related note..I spent my 21st birthday hiking and camping in the Drankensburg Mountains in South Africa. Tolkien himself was inspired by their majestic beauty as a child and used them as the basis for his conception of Middle Earth.
Just one more reason why I have no excuse for not reading LOR.. |
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Arthen
Alien Abductee
USA
4845 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2007 : 11:01:09 PM
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Trickster God=Loki
The Fenris Wolf is supposedly fated to devour Odin during Ragnarok.
Thor and that serpent kill one another.
The rest I forget. Are the Valar fated one way or the other? |
Steve Hackett: "I'm my own opening act, you see."
Tim (before "Faceoff"): "Peace, love....and SEX!"
cbenc41@hotmail.com |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2007 : 1:33:05 PM
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| it's unsure. like the elves, the ainur, valar and maiar alike, have their life tied to arda, and they will endure as long as arda itself. the final battle will destroy arda, but like in ragnorak, it will be remade better than before. the middle-earth and arda in the book is arda marred, marred by melkor. the new arda will be arda remade. melkor will die, and i believe feanor will deal the final blow. but, i don't if elves and ainur will die with the old arda. |
death to false metal. |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2007 : 10:37:52 AM
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| further research has shown me that the valar will not die in the last battle. it is said that after the battle, the ainur will gather again before eru make another great music, this time with eru's themes played as they were first intended. the children of eru, elves and men, will join them, and from that music arda remade will form. |
death to false metal. |
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Arthen
Alien Abductee
USA
4845 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2007 : 11:53:15 AM
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Arda as it was originally intended.
So then do the Dwarves get left out, since they were an aberration from the original them? |
Steve Hackett: "I'm my own opening act, you see."
Tim (before "Faceoff"): "Peace, love....and SEX!"
cbenc41@hotmail.com |
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SpaceMonkey
Chatterbox
315 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2007 : 12:06:07 PM
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| All this talk about myths...have you guys read any of Joseph Campbell's stuff: "Hero with a Thousand Faces" or "The Power of Myth"? |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2007 : 2:52:21 PM
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i read hero with a thousand faces. it was interesting, but the idea that each ancient culture seemed to have the same basic qualities isn't exactly groundbreaking. his list of the 20 things all mythical heros have in common was pretty insightful, though.
dwarves are tough to explain. their views on their origin and afterlife are strange. i believe in the encyclopedia of middle-earth, book X called "morgoth's ring," it explains that some elves, upon returning from the halls of mandos report that dwarves do go there, too. i would have to assume that they don't stay there forever, but fight in the final battle. perhaps they don't take part in the music because the vala aule made them, and no eru. however, eru did allow them to be, and breathed life and free will into them, and named them his children. that would suggest that dwarves are, in fact, children of eru, albeit adopted. if they are children of eru, it is said that they'll take part in the music. |
death to false metal. |
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Stephen R. Donaldson
