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Fluffy
Administrator
USA
10739 Posts |
 Posted - 11/27/2006 : 1:55:26 PM
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.....I don't think so. LOL
Subdivision Bans Wreath With Peace Sign
Homeowner Defies Board, Faces About $1000 in Fines
By ROBERT WELLER, AP
DENVER (Nov. 26) - A homeowners association in southwestern Colorado has threatened to fine a resident $25 a day until she removes a Christmas wreath with a peace sign that some say is an anti-Iraq war protest or a symbol of Satan.
Some residents who have complained have children serving in Iraq, said Bob Kearns, president of the Loma Linda Homeowners Association in Pagosa Springs. He said some residents have also believed it was a symbol of Satan. Three or four residents complained, he said.
"Somebody could put up signs that say drop bombs on Iraq. If you let one go up you have to let them all go up," he said in a telephone interview Sunday.
Lisa Jensen said she wasn't thinking of the war when she hung the wreath. She said, "Peace is way bigger than not being at war. This is a spiritual thing."
Jensen, a past association president, calculates the fines will cost her about $1,000, and doubts they will be able to make her pay. But she said she's not going to take it down until after Christmas.
"Now that it has come to this I feel I can't get bullied," she said. "What if they don't like my Santa Claus."
The association in this 200-home subdivision 270 miles southwest of Denver has sent a letter to her saying that residents were offended by the sign and the board "will not allow signs, flags etc. that can be considered divisive."
The subdivision's rules say no signs, billboards or advertising are permitted without the consent of the architectural control committee.
Kearns ordered the committee to require Jensen to remove the wreath, but members refused after concluding that it was merely a seasonal symbol that didn't say anything. Kearns fired all five committee members.
11/26/06 20:50 EST
Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. |
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy         
"THE MUSIC BUSINESS IS A CRUEL AND SHALLOW MONEY TRENCH-- A LONG PLASTIC HALLWAY WHERE THIEVES AND PIMPS RUN FREE AND GOOD MEN DIE LIKE DOGS. THERE'S ALSO A NEGATIVE SIDE..." -Hunter S. Thompson |
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Arthen
Alien Abductee
USA
4845 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2006 : 4:00:06 PM
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My favorite part is when Kearns fires the committee members for refusing him.
Good lord, a common holiday saying is "Peace on Earth"! How is peace political or "divisive"? |
Steve Hackett: "I'm my own opening act, you see."
Tim (before "Faceoff"): "Peace, love....and SEX!"
cbenc41@hotmail.com |
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Robin
Yak Addict
USA
598 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2006 : 4:16:15 PM
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| Well it seems SOMEONE has a little issue with power,and waay too much TIME on thier hands.LOL! And when did the peace sign be come a symbol of Satan?! Peace, Robin |
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Ranting Thespian
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2006 : 5:31:58 PM
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A peace sign? Jesus must be turning in his grave . . . well he did arise from it . . . um . . . jesus is getting a rash in heaven, there we go.
Hmmm, peace on earth? Good will twards men? What does that have to do with christmas? It's not like it's in a x-mas song that neighbors will carol around the area.
STOP THE UNGODLINESS BEFORE YOU GIVE JESUS HEMOROIDS! |
Not communicating can hurt more than any word that can be said -
Nick
-the Ranting Thespian |
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Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
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jsemon2
Yak Addict
USA
920 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2006 : 7:18:58 PM
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| where you at jared. |
OUT FOR LUNCH |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2006 : 11:01:30 PM
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i wish these people would try a little harder not to be so fuckin stupid. when peace becomes offensive, it's time to take a giant step back and re-evaluate your life. chances are you're living it the wrong way. what's so mind blowing is that it's not even "peace in iraq" that bothers them. it's the very idea of peace that they object to.
the best part? some people have family in iraq. and god forbid there be any peace, right? ideally, you want to keep your kids in mortal danger for as long as possible. what a bunch of fuckin brain surgeons. |
death to false metal. |
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Biff the Pig
Chatterbox
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2006 : 11:26:13 PM
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so i guess i will play devils advocate even though i don't agree with the extent of the stupidity of the protestors. i'm pretty sure that you all already realize this, but i will say it b/c i'm bored.. i think that people are protesting this particular combination of symbols b/c the people who are typically on the side of this war believe it to be against muslim extremists who want nothing more than to kill innocent americans on their own soil if at all possible. so in a sense, this Christian holiday is taking the side of the enemy (the muslims) with this symbol. and these people are making a big deal about someones right to make this kind of statement. it's very stupid in my opinion. there are bigger things to worry about. it's not news worthy
:)! |
www.myspace.com/travismoore3 |
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Arthen
Alien Abductee
USA
4845 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2006 : 11:27:34 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dan p.
the best part? some people have family in iraq. and god forbid there be any peace, right? ideally, you want to keep your kids in mortal danger for as long as possible. what a bunch of fuckin brain surgeons.
I suppose some people hate their children and family members.
But honestly I, too, don't understand this new found aversion to peace. |
Steve Hackett: "I'm my own opening act, you see."
Tim (before "Faceoff"): "Peace, love....and SEX!"
cbenc41@hotmail.com |
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Ranting Thespian
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2006 : 01:52:58 AM
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please don't give Jesus Hemoroids!
Seriously though, we are at war in Iraq for what (well, what the government says)? What are we trying to achive for the iraqies (again what the government says, just play along with me here)? For PEACE IN IRAQ! We aren't going to cause a war and never have peace (again, government). So, peace in iraq can be taken not as in bring our troops home, but get the job done so iraq can be at peace.
They need to get a life. |
Not communicating can hurt more than any word that can be said -
Nick
-the Ranting Thespian |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2006 : 11:39:09 AM
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i'm afraid i don't follow your reasoning, biff. if there was peace, wouldn't that necessarily mean no killing, by either christians or muslims?
i do understand how one might interpret the peace wreath as a statement against the war. the war is, and has been, a topic of debate, and when one thinks of peace, they think of war ceasing. and because the iraqi war is very much in people's minds, it's only natural to assume that the person with a peace sign wishes for an end to the war in iraq. what baffles me is, why does anyone wish for the continuation of this, or any war? christ is called the prince of peace, after all. i suppose these people see it as a statement of general disagreement with going into iraq, and they aren't taking the peace symbol for what it actually is. |
death to false metal. |
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Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2006 : 11:54:29 AM
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I think the freedom to propogate peace is a big deal, and when it is being persecuted for any reason, it deserves a lot of attention.
This just shows you how absolutely hypocritical people are about their beliefs. Good will to some, not others. Peace on earth, but only in North America. We're the ones that have been poking the hornet's nest with a stick for so long, God forbid someone make a statement against the tyranny and terror THIS country has caused that and almost EVERY OTHER region of the world over the last 100-odd years.
Again..un-fucking-believable. |
http://db.etree.org/hopefulrollingwaves/ < My Trading List |
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Robin
Yak Addict
USA
598 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2006 : 1:26:41 PM
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| You nailed it, couldn't have said it better myself. Peace, Robin |
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Arthen
Alien Abductee
USA
4845 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2006 : 4:23:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Hopeful Rolling Waves
Good will to some, not others. Peace on earth, but only in North America.
Hell, even more specifically Peace on earth, in North America, but only in the United States, if you are making more than six figures a year. |
Steve Hackett: "I'm my own opening act, you see."
Tim (before "Faceoff"): "Peace, love....and SEX!"
cbenc41@hotmail.com |
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gnome44
Yak Addict
749 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2006 : 5:11:55 PM
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Looks like they might have come to their senses...
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/11/28/peace.wreath.ap/index.html
-----------------------------------------------
Truce declared in peace wreath battle
POSTED: 1:05 p.m. EST, November 28, 2006
DENVER, Colorado (AP) -- A subdivision has withdrawn its threat of $25 daily fines against a homeowner who put a Christmas wreath shaped like a peace sign on the front of her home.
Homeowner Lisa Jensen told The Associated Press on Monday that the board of directors of the Loma Linda Homeowners Association had apologized, called the incident a misunderstanding and had withdrawn its request for the wreath's removal.
Jensen was ordered to take the wreath down when some residents in her 200-home subdivision saw it as a protest of the Iraq war. Bob Kearns, president of the board, also said some saw it as a symbol of Satan.
The homeowners' association demanded Jensen remove the wreath from her house, saying it doesn't allow flags or signs that are considered divisive.
None of the three members of the board in the scenic town 270 miles southwest of Denver was available for comment late Monday. Kearns and colleague Jeff Heitz both had their phone numbers changed to unlisted numbers Monday. Tammy Spezze, the third board member, did not return a call seeking comment.
Jensen, a past association president, said she was overwhelmed with hundreds of calls of support and offers to help her pay the $1,000 fine that would be due if she kept the wreath up until after Christmas.
"We would like to thank everyone who has contacted us with moral support and offers of financial support. We are grateful to hundreds of complete strangers who felt so moved by this story they contacted us," she said.
"It seems whenever someone tries to say 'Peace on Earth' it is met with so much resistance," she said. "The incredible amount of support we have received over the last couple of days really is proof to us of how many people believe in peace and in our right to say it."
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rubylith
Fluffy-Esque
1916 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2006 : 5:14:43 PM
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I wish there was a photo of a dead iraqi child on the front page of every newspaper and every tv channel everyday...maybe then people would realize how they;ve been suckered into such a horrible activity.
Anyone that defends this or any "war" is ignorant and has been exposed to a mass quantity of mind control.
I laugh in anyone's face who thinks killing people is a good thing becasue frankly they are stupid people, and if the world should be without anyone, it is the people who are pro war.
EDIT: Actually now that I think about it, it really isn't the pro-war peoples' fault. Again they have been exposed to COUNTLESS hours of mind control to manipulate their opinion on such a matter. I don't wish harm on anyone, but it is about time the people of America rise up and take back our country. But most of us will just sit back and complain and get no where then when the economy crashes and the dollar goes to zero, it will be Enron all over again, except this time on a country wide scale. |
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Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
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Biff the Pig
Chatterbox
USA
147 Posts |
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Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2006 : 6:08:46 PM
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A politically correct war? You my friend, are heavily diluted.
The inequities between us bombing thousands of civilians, destroying vital infrastructure, and selling off their country vs. them cutting off some heads doesn't seem to balance out.
Politically correct, maybe to the war profiteers, other than that, I see no attempts at "political correctness." |
http://db.etree.org/hopefulrollingwaves/ < My Trading List |
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rubylith
Fluffy-Esque
1916 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2006 : 6:22:27 PM
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Our government trained and created the islamic extermists...our government also fueled the fire by killing their people the last 80+ years...and once again it was our very own government who carried out the September 11th attacks.
So if another country came here and killed and raped your mother, and also was responsible for the destruction of America...and you found one of those people in your town that was working for an oil company that was profiting off your families rape and death and country's very own destruction...what would you do? At the very least i would behead the mother fucker if I ever found him.
I am sympathetic to the Berg family, and to every family that lost someone over this war, it isn't right, EVER.
But what is even more disturbing is how people can over look history while this scum bag billionaires stand up front and order children into a battle that is not meant to ever end. The Iraq war isn't going "wrong", it is going exactly as planned...and if you don't see that i suggest you take your head out of your ass. That last comment was a general comment not geared to anyone specifically.  |
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Robin
Yak Addict
USA
598 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2006 : 8:36:31 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Hopeful Rolling Waves
Robin, I am fining you $25 a day til you remove the offending word 'peace' from all of your posts. 
Yeah I'm a freak'in "peacenik"but people love me anyway. Seriously though, it's s little bit sad when people are offended and attacking peace as an idea..... Freedom of speech, there's a growing delusion for ya! Peace, Robin |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2006 : 11:18:35 PM
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this is a war. soldiers die. that's what happens. and yeah, that sucks. i don't mean to sound heartless, but soldiers die in war, and what you're saying when you agree with a war is, "i am willing to accept the deaths of men and women who have lives and families for a cause." so don't sit there and tell us "i'm for this war" and then turn around and get bent out of shape about dead soldiers. i don't like it when people die, either. that's also why i'm not a huge fan of wars that have no apparent objective (read: this war.) is killing muslim extremists really the goal? and it's taken us this long? and ok. suppose we kill our targets. do you really think the dangerous fundamentalists are not going to show up again? the answer is a resounding "no." so, if killing the dangerous muslims is really the goal, it's unachievable. it hate to tell you, but you're never going to get rid of them.
generally speaking, when you have a war, you have a certain schedule you adhere to. some sort of timetable. that way, you don't have people out there dying while everyone else sits around with their thumbs up their asses. there is no timetable for this war.
i also think that the reason americans can get behind a war is because american soil never sees attack. pearl harbor and 9/11 really have nothing on what other countries deal with. if we started getting suicide bombings daily, constant missiles and plenty of ground combat, america would change it's tune. we're fine with war, so long as we don't directly suffer the concequences. |
death to false metal. |
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Biff the Pig
Chatterbox
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2006 : 11:28:12 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by rubylith
Our government trained and created the islamic extermists...our government also fueled the fire by killing their people the last 80+ years...and once again it was our very own government who carried out the September 11th attacks.
well i can't exactly argue with that b/c, if you believe those things, then you have EVERY right to think the way you do. but i happen to not believe those things..and don't call me diluted, b/c i have studied both sides and read every one of the infowars and prisonplanet links i see on here. and i'm sorry if i don't believe these kids:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stVmEmJ666M
quote:
Originally posted by dan p.
so don't sit there and tell us "i'm for this war" and then turn around and get bent out of shape about dead soldiers. i don't like it when people die, either. that's also why i'm not a huge fan of wars that have no apparent objective (read: this war.) is killing muslim extremists really the goal? and it's taken us this long? and ok. suppose we kill our targets. do you really think the dangerous fundamentalists are not going to show up again? the answer is a resounding "no." so, if killing the dangerous muslims is really the goal, it's unachievable. it hate to tell you, but you're never going to get rid of them.
if this is directed at me, please note that i am not for this war. i AM for a war that has killing muslim extremists as the main objective however, unfortunatly this war isn't doing it. and i'm pretty sure gerneral patton could think up a few ways to kill off the dangerous muslims or at least enough of them to make them not want to come back |
www.myspace.com/travismoore3 |
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Ranting Thespian
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2006 : 02:00:04 AM
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I am so glad she is allowed to keep it up. Also, it just looks pretty  . |
Not communicating can hurt more than any word that can be said -
Nick
-the Ranting Thespian |
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Ranting Thespian
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2006 : 02:02:24 AM
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(One two, one two three four!)
Everybody's talking about Bagism, Shagism, Dragism, Madism
Ragism, Tagism, Thisism, Thatism, Ismism
Everybody's talking about ministers, sinisters, banisters
and canisters, bishops and fishops and rabbis and popeyes
Bye bye, bye bye
Let me tell you now - everybody's talking about
revolution, evolution, masturbation, flagellation,
regulation, integration, meditation, United Nations,
congratulations
Everybody's talking about John and Yoko, Timmy Leary, Rosemary,
Tommy Smothers, Bobby Dylan, Tommy Cooper, Derek Taylor, Norman Mailer,
Alan Ginsberg, Hare Krishna, Hare Hare Krishna
All we are saying is give peace a chance
All we are saying is give peace a chance
All we are saying is give peace a chance
All we are saying is give peace a chance
All we are saying is give peace a chance . . . |
Not communicating can hurt more than any word that can be said -
Nick
-the Ranting Thespian |
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Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2006 : 10:16:37 AM
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I am telling you are diluted. You BELIEVE want YOU want, the fact of the matter is that extremist groups in Afghanistan and Pakistan were UNDENIABLY trained, funded, and armed by the U.S. military to do jobs that the CIA didn't want to be directly involved in. We pumped the Taliban and the burgeoning but not-yet-named Al Qaeda full of military training and weapons.
If you don't believe that, then you haven't been reading, because those facts have been in the air for many years. Now they decided to bite the hand that fed them becuase they finally realized that we were all along out to ruin their societies and kill their people to ultimately steal their only natural resources to fuel our greedy and horribly decadent wants.
I might not be a muslim extremist, but I certainly think they have a better understanding of what's going on over there than most Americans do, wink wink. |
http://db.etree.org/hopefulrollingwaves/ < My Trading List |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2006 : 2:50:46 PM
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i'm going to go right ahead and not get between hrw and and biff, because i don't know anything about that. but i will say that my comments were directed at you, biff. often times i'll switch from using the word "you" as the second person singular pronoun, to using it as an all around, general "you," and not anyone specifically without really explaining. that's because i'm terrible at communication. anyway, sorry for the confusion.
also, i wouldn't say "diluted," as an acid or a base might be in water. i think the word you're looking for is "deluded." "deluded" and "misinformed" are not at all the same thing. |
death to false metal. |
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Biff the Pig
Chatterbox
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2006 : 4:03:07 PM
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to HRW:
i am 'diluted' to you, and you are 'diluted' to me. both our views are plausable when separate, but cannot be combined..therefore i'm going to stop arguing.
to dan p.:
i already addressed the distinction between what kind of war i would back, and what kind i don't (the one we are currently "fighting") in my last post..so just read it again if you haven't :)
ps. i only used 'diluted' b/c that's what HRW called me
i think i've done my damage haha..and unless anyone else wants to say something to me i'm done in this topic. i expressed my views, while they may be hard to follow, how i wanted to. |
www.myspace.com/travismoore3 |
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rubylith
Fluffy-Esque
1916 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2006 : 8:03:03 PM
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HAHA SPELL CHECKKKED
How do you win a war?
There is about as much chance as all of the muslim extremists being wiped out as there is all of the criminal elements in our government being wiped out...it just won't happen...more and more are born everyday....and this war creates more of them, it does not destroy them. For every one teenager with a bomb strapped to his chest klled, there are 3 more that will now stand behind his cause.
"Soliders emptying there clips at little kids and their moms, are just like a desperate motherfucker strapped to a bomb" |
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Muskrat
Chatterbox
USA
266 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2006 : 8:45:00 PM
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So THAT'S what he meant by diluted. Someone's been hanging 'round Dubya, Nukeyaler anyone? |
"You know, if you live long enough, eventually you're gonna die." -Words of wisdom from my dad |
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Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2006 : 09:13:16 AM
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Biff is 'diluted' in the sense that he's got too much 'information' floating around in that skull of his and it's seemingly taken away from his brain power. I don't understand, Biff. If you don't believe the that the U.S. government has spent countless dollars and hours plotting and executing terror in other countries, let's take a look at the...
"US World Domination Tour"
1945-1946 China
1950-1953 Korea, China
1954 Guatemala
1958 Indonesia
1959-1961 Cuba
1960 Guatemala
1964 Congo
1965 Peru
1964-1973 Laos
1961-1973 Vietnam
1969-1970 Canbodia
1967-1969 Guatemala
1983 Grenada
1983-1984 Lebanon
1980s El Salvador
1980s Nicaragua
1986 Libya
1987 Iran
1989 Panama
1991 Iraq
1993 Somalia
1998 Sudan
1998 Afghanistan
1999 Yugoslavia
2001-? Afghanistan
2003-? Iraq
And don't let this short list fool you, the U.S. has had shady dealings in plenty of other country's including earlier stints in Iran AND Iraq dating back to the 1950's, and all of it in the name of the U.S.'s brand of 'justice' or helping out our little, but equally nasty sister, Israel. Now, however, this country has hit a brick wall. We're overextended, not enough humanoid war machines. We're SERIOUSLY in debt, and with nothing to back our bogus currency, recession/depression is imminent. HUGE schisms exist between social classes and races which will just exascerbate an already unsettled populous. The shit WILL hit the fan, and as our good friend Thom says..."You do it to yourself, you do, and that's what really hurts."
Never question the only one who goes out of their way to capitalize, punctuate, and spell check all of his posts. 
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http://db.etree.org/hopefulrollingwaves/ < My Trading List |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2006 : 10:32:37 AM
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that's a nice save on the "diluted" thing. impressive.
i don't know about all that doomsday stuff you just said. for one thing, a economic recession is always either going to happen or actually happening. the economy is constantly in flux between high and low points. we are in debt up to our ass, though. as for schisms between races and classes, those have always been there, too. the gaps between classes is probably more marked now than previously. but somehow, i just don't see something like a race riot in our immediate future. i don't even think the populous is unsettled. if anything, we're too settled. too complacent. the populous could stand, i think, to be a little more unsettled.
biff, i went back and tried to find that post you were talking about, but it turns out i'm real lazy, so i'll just take your word for it that that's what you said. sorry for the confusion. |
death to false metal. |
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Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2006 : 10:35:10 AM
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Depends on what part of the populous you're looking at, I guess.
I just think that everyone's view that our government can do whatever the fuck they want and get away with it in perpetuity is pretty naive.
Every dog has his day, Dan; and with that, you can't argue. |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2006 : 10:07:46 PM
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| i concede victory to you, good sir. |
death to false metal. |
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Silky The Pimp
Alien Abductee
3321 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2006 : 11:59:45 PM
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Every time someone displays a peace sybol shaped wreath, god kills a kitten. This is obviously just an animal loving neighborhood... what's wrong with that?
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Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2006 : 02:42:47 AM
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| god kills kittens because it's right. |
death to false metal. |
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PJK
Alien Abductee
USA
4159 Posts |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2006 : 1:17:09 PM
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the trouble with artists who do things like that, and "piss christ," is that they confuse offending people with making a point. wow, guy. you've offended people by making nazi gingerbread men. you were expecting what, exactly?
"I don't see how anybody can associate this with any real Nazis. I can differentiate, apparently you can't." that's pretty much a more verbose way of saying "i don't understand it when people don't think the things i think." also, artists do things like that to shock and offend. i'm pretty sure that doing something for those specific reasons is the very definition of "mean spirited." also, since it's a replica of nazi germany, i'm pretty sure there's a very reasonable way to associate it with real nazis. that is, it's a replica of nazis.
that lady is pretty stupid, too. to suppose that decorations can suck the life right out of christmas is fairly silly. |
death to false metal. |
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tericee
Alien Abductee
USA
2579 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2006 : 4:59:36 PM
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Since the topic of Nazis came up, I thought I'd mention that it was slightly surreal watching The Machine play Pink Floyd's "The Wall" on Friday night here in Germany. I have never listened to the whole album, or seen the movie, so I didn't realize there were explicit references to Jews and "showers." When those lines were sung, though, it seemed very strange to me. It may be that the Germans who show up to The Machine's concerts are so used to the words that it doesn't phase them. Perhaps my two American friends and I were the only ones who felt a little weird...
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teri
Twittering about the DC adventure since Dec '09...
(Micro)Blog * Photo Album
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Arthen
Alien Abductee
USA
4845 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2006 : 5:01:49 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dan p.
that lady is pretty stupid, too. to suppose that decorations can suck the life right out of christmas is fairly silly.
Isn't that how Jesus died? |
Steve Hackett: "I'm my own opening act, you see."
Tim (before "Faceoff"): "Peace, love....and SEX!"
cbenc41@hotmail.com |
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Robin
Yak Addict
USA
598 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2006 : 7:21:53 PM
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| It's interesting, on the one hand as an art peice it's good and it made people talk which is hopefully what art does. On the other hand, I've always had a weird thing about making light of that particular topic. And the woman who was concerned about Christmas being ruined...please. teri, that was an interesting perspective I'm sure. Peace, Robin |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2006 : 7:55:17 PM
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| is that your criterion for what makes art good? 9/11 made people talk. world war 2 made people talk. mass murders and disasters make people talk. are these things to be considered good pieces of art, then? |
death to false metal. |
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PJK
Alien Abductee
USA
4159 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2006 : 11:02:26 PM
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Wow Teri, yeah, I would feel uncomfortable too. "Waiting for the Worms" has some really graphic and explicit lines like the ones that talk about the ovens "Waiting for the final solution to strengthen the strain. Waiting to follow the worms. Waiting to turn on the showers And fire the ovens. Waiting for the queers and the coons
and the reds and the jews. Waiting to follow the worms." I would have had a hard time listening to that in Germany, in fact, I have a hard time listening to those lines period.
Don't know if you ever saw the movie Swing Kids, but I always liked that movie because it showed a side of what was going on in Germany that you don't often see. It focused on the mind control more than the gore of what happened through a group of kids who loved Swing Music.
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"It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!"Friedrich Nietzsche |
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Arthen
Alien Abductee
USA
4845 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2006 : 12:30:16 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by PJK
Wow Teri, yeah, I would feel uncomfortable too. "Waiting for the Worms" has some really graphic and explicit lines like the ones that talk about the ovens "Waiting for the final solution to strengthen the strain. Waiting to follow the worms. Waiting to turn on the showers And fire the ovens. Waiting for the queers and the coons
and the reds and the jews. Waiting to follow the worms." I would have had a hard time listening to that in Germany, in fact, I have a hard time listening to those lines period.
Don't know if you ever saw the movie Swing Kids, but I always liked that movie because it showed a side of what was going on in Germany that you don't often see. It focused on the mind control more than the gore of what happened through a group of kids who loved Swing Music.
I get a similar vibe. I often wonder how Japanese Gamers feel when they play WWII games and they are shooting and killing Japanese soldiers.
As for Swing Kids, I like the movie, except the "Swing Heil" line. That's a bit too cheesy for me. |
Steve Hackett: "I'm my own opening act, you see."
Tim (before "Faceoff"): "Peace, love....and SEX!"
cbenc41@hotmail.com |
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Ranting Thespian
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2006 : 04:20:12 AM
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I am not offended by what Roger sings in the songs In The Flesh? and Waiting For the Worms.
The reason why is by what happens at the end, and what happened before. Plus at this point, Pink is tripping off of the drugs the doctor gave him in Comfortably Numb to wake him up. All of this is in his head, and why he is doing this is because he is now attacking the crowd and the world that attacked him (hence refering to what sparked The Wall during the Animals tour where Roger spit on a fan's face who was running to the stage yelling, pushing, shouting, and pissing off Roger. So in turn Roger spit at him, attacking the crowd. He felt horrible afterwards to what has become of Floyd shows). So he is seeing himself as a facist at a facist rally. Then in Waiting For the Worms (worms being a decomposer) he is showing his decomposing of his santiy/mind/world and he is attacking the outside world too with the worms. But, what happens is STOP! Where he is wondering if it is him to blaim, and regrets doing what he did. Hence, the trial begins, and he was found guilty.
Hence Roger is not endorsing what happened, it really is in a negative light to what happened to Pink in the story, not to who he attacked or attacked him. |
Not communicating can hurt more than any word that can be said -
Nick
-the Ranting Thespian |
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PJK
Alien Abductee
USA
4159 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2006 : 07:20:22 AM
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quote:
The reason why is by what happens at the end, and what happened before. Plus at this point, Pink is tripping off of the drugs the doctor gave him in Comfortably Numb to wake him up. All of this is in his head, and why he is doing this is because he is now attacking the crowd and the world that attacked him (hence refering to what sparked The Wall during the Animals tour where Roger spit on a fan's face who was running to the stage yelling, pushing, shouting, and pissing off Roger. So in turn Roger spit at him, attacking the crowd. He felt horrible afterwards to what has become of Floyd shows). So he is seeing himself as a facist at a facist rally. Then in Waiting For the Worms (worms being a decomposer) he is showing his decomposing of his santiy/mind/world and he is attacking the outside world too with the worms. But, what happens is STOP! Where he is wondering if it is him to blaim, and regrets doing what he did. Hence, the trial begins, and he was found guilty.
Hence Roger is not endorsing what happened, it really is in a negative light to what happened to Pink in the story, not to who he attacked or attacked him.
True, but it still is creepy to me and I am not comfortable with that song. However, Comfortably Numb is one of my favorite songs. |
"It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!"Friedrich Nietzsche |
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Robin
Yak Addict
USA
598 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2006 : 1:06:30 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dan p.
is that your criterion for what makes art good? 9/11 made people talk. world war 2 made people talk. mass murders and disasters make people talk. are these things to be considered good pieces of art, then?
No Dan, but this WAS a peice of art and was clearly presented as such. I'm not saying I support it, but the fact that the peice was thought provoking was what I was addressing. It's a very sensitive topic and I certainly understand it more than I care to divulge on a message board. I was commenting on the medium and I do not by any means consider the things you mention to be "Art". I'm surprised that you would jump to that conclusion. But then again maybe not. Peace, Robin |
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Arthen
Alien Abductee
USA
4845 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2006 : 1:15:22 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ranting Thespian
I am not offended by what Roger sings in the songs In The Flesh? and Waiting For the Worms.
The reason why is by what happens at the end, and what happened before. Plus at this point, Pink is tripping off of the drugs the doctor gave him in Comfortably Numb to wake him up. All of this is in his head, and why he is doing this is because he is now attacking the crowd and the world that attacked him (hence refering to what sparked The Wall during the Animals tour where Roger spit on a fan's face who was running to the stage yelling, pushing, shouting, and pissing off Roger. So in turn Roger spit at him, attacking the crowd. He felt horrible afterwards to what has become of Floyd shows). So he is seeing himself as a facist at a facist rally. Then in Waiting For the Worms (worms being a decomposer) he is showing his decomposing of his santiy/mind/world and he is attacking the outside world too with the worms. But, what happens is STOP! Where he is wondering if it is him to blaim, and regrets doing what he did. Hence, the trial begins, and he was found guilty.
Hence Roger is not endorsing what happened, it really is in a negative light to what happened to Pink in the story, not to who he attacked or attacked him.
I don't think anyone said they were offended, they are just extremely powerful and intense lyrics and can definitely be hard to handle sometimes. |
Steve Hackett: "I'm my own opening act, you see."
Tim (before "Faceoff"): "Peace, love....and SEX!"
cbenc41@hotmail.com |
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gnome44
Yak Addict
749 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2006 : 1:19:08 PM
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| I think Robin was trying to say that art should make people talk. I do not think that she was saying that anything that makes people talk is art. |
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Robin
Yak Addict
USA
598 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2006 : 4:33:12 PM
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| Exactly!Peace, Robin |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2006 : 9:24:36 PM
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| i still fail to see what precisely about this is art. thought provoking? what exactly is being communicated that is thought provoking? they're nazis, and people are offended. where's the message? it just strikes me as boring and trite. |
death to false metal. |
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Ranting Thespian
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2006 : 01:15:26 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by gnome44
I think Robin was trying to say that art should make people talk. I do not think that she was saying that anything that makes people talk is art.
A square can be a rectangle, but not all rectangles are squares
Oh, and yes those lines are creepy, and I can see why they are hard to hear for someone. I have a hard time hearing some lines in certain songs as well. |
Not communicating can hurt more than any word that can be said -
Nick
-the Ranting Thespian |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2006 : 01:43:48 AM
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i don't believe that it is necessary for art to make people talk. part of what art is, i think, is that it makes the person feel. now, like you, that isn't the only criterion i have for art. i think a large part of art is craft. that is, deliberate and careful attention paid to how a piece of art is created, on a technical level and conceptual level. that regardless of it's content. art can be ugly just as it can be beautiful. but feeling and craft must be present. perfect example: the music of bach or of schoenberg. masterfully and meticulously crafted, and with feeling. i see neither craft nor feeling in "the secret lives of gingerbread men." all i see is a cynical man who believes that doing and making offensive things will make him more successful. either that or a childish man clamoring for attention by being bad.
my old conducting teacher once said "you cannot have art without craft. without craft, you're just doing something because it feels good. there's a name for that, and you generally get arrested for doing it in public." perhaps the wisest thing ever uttered. |
death to false metal. |
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tericee
Alien Abductee
USA
2579 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2006 : 08:27:25 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by PJK
Don't know if you ever saw the movie Swing Kids, but I always liked that movie because it showed a side of what was going on in Germany that you don't often see. It focused on the mind control more than the gore of what happened through a group of kids who loved Swing Music.
I've only seen Swing Kids once, but I did like it and thought it was a refreshingly different take on Nazi Germany. As for "Swing Heil" it does sound a little silly, but it may be true. The Austrians are known for saying "Ski Heil" so my friend Crystal and I were musing the other day about whether that phrase came about under Hitler's regime.
I saw a movie once called Tiny Revoutions, which was about the control of comedians and comic theater during communist rule of Czechoslovakia. In an atmosphere like that, any joke that causes somebody to disrepect those in power could be considered a tiny revolution, so there was a lot of censorship. I think of those phrases in that same way.
In a similar vein, tonight my book club and I are off to dinner and a tour at a local synagogue. We like to meet for dinner and discussion at a restaurant that has something to do with our book each month, so when we picked the book "Night" one of our German members found this synagogue, which I think will be quite interesting. |
teri
Twittering about the DC adventure since Dec '09...
(Micro)Blog * Photo Album
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Robin
Yak Addict
USA
598 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2006 : 8:02:46 PM
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| very kewl, I'm interested to hear more about it. Peace, Robin |
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Fluffy
Administrator
USA
10739 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2006 : 01:01:33 AM
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| Since we are talking about "interesting" alternate perspectives on "that" period in German history I would like to recommend a book I read recently, The Book Thief. Absolutely AMAZING! I was actually going to bring it with me to Germany for Teri to read but I didn't make it home before I left for Europe. A truly beautiful book with a number of unique perspectives. TR read it before me and it came highly recommended to me by both TR and Diane. Hope you all have a chance to check it out. |
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy
"THE MUSIC BUSINESS IS A CRUEL AND SHALLOW MONEY TRENCH-- A LONG PLASTIC HALLWAY WHERE THIEVES AND PIMPS RUN FREE AND GOOD MEN DIE LIKE DOGS. THERE'S ALSO A NEGATIVE SIDE..." -Hunter S. Thompson |
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tericee
Alien Abductee
USA
2579 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2006 : 11:07:09 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Robin
very kewl, I'm interested to hear more about it. Peace, Robin
Since you said you are interested, here's what I blogged on my 360 page when I got home last night. (formatting may be screwy)
Last month my book club read "Night" by Elie Wiesel, 1986 Nobel Peace Prize Winner. We like to try to meet for discussion at a restaurant consistent with the theme of each book. One of our members, Christiane, did an Internet search for Jewish restaurants and found Schalom, which is a small kosher restaurant inside the Stuttgart Synagogue.
A synagogue is basically the Jewish equivalent of a church. This particular synagogue is the center of the Jewish religious community in Wurttemburg, which is quite a large portion of the German state of Baden-Wurttemburg. It is a place of prayer, study and education, social and charitable work, as well as a social center.
Tonight, we ate a lovely dinner of hummus, falafel, rice, and cucumber salad, and turkey meat that looked fit for a gyro. Before and during dinner, our tour guide, Rachel, told us about the Jewish dietary law, as well as a little bit about Judaism in general.
After dinner, Rachel took us into the sanctuary for a "tour." (We sat, rather than walked around, while she pointed things out.) In the sanctuary, she showed us a replica of Moses' stone tablets, the only portion of the synagogue that was salvaged after the building was destroyed on "The Night of Broken Glass." Interestingly, the stone tablets were saved not by a Jew, but by a Gentile member of the synagogue maintenance crew. The temple was re-built about 20 years after it was destroyed, by the same Jewish architect who had been forced to complete the destruction of the temple after the burning of
9 Nov, 1938.
After telling the poignant story of the building, she pointed out many of the features of the room.
- The Ark, a curtained recession in the wall, which holds the Torah scrolls. As a woman, she was not allowed to open the curtain to show us the scrolls, so she showed us photos from a coffee table book instead.
- In front of and slightly above the Ark, was the ner tamid, or Eternal Lamp. This lamp symbolizes the commandment to keep a light burning in the Tabernacle outside of the curtain surrounding the Ark of the Covenant.
(Ex. 27:20-21). - Aside from the Hanukkah menorah, there were two large candelabra, on which only 6 of 7 candles were lit. The seventh candle can apparently not be lit until the temple in Jerusalem is re-built.They believe this will happen when the Messiah comes.
- In the center of the room was a pedestal called the bimah. It is where the rabbi reads the Torah, where bar mitzvahs are conducted for 13-year-old boys, and where weddings are performed.
- There was also a balcony, from which women are watch prayer and services. Men are not permitted to pray in the presence of women, because they are supposed to have their minds on their prayers, not on pretty girls.
Rachel, who will be 86 in January, also told us the story of her family during the Nazi period. One of her aunts, it could be said, "saw the writing on the wall" as early as 1913, so after getting an education in Agriculture in the Netherlands, emigrated to Palestine. It was with her that 17-year-old Rachel sought refuge after her family's flat in eastern Germany was looted by the Nazis.
Her brother was also rescued, but by a family member in London. Her parents were able to escape to Italy, but that only lasted a short time because of Mussolini's alliance with Hitler. Unfortunately, in a very roundabout way, they ended up at Auschwitz. Her mother was ill, so she immediately "went to the right," as Rachel explained it. Her father wasn't willing to go on without his wife, and he also died at Auschwitz.
Surprisingly, Rachel is not bitter. She said she is a person who likes to be active and happy, and that hate is not useful at all. She moved back to Germany many years ago because she met and married a man from Stuttgart. She has been here ever since. But she has never been back to her "home town" in eastern Germany because there is nothing to connect her to that place anymore.
If you want to see the photo I posted along with the text, simply log into your Yahoo! account, visit http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog- <http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog->
<http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog- <http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-> > Ua8kicYlfrTS1.pOsNV0?p=126, and click
+Add.
teri :)
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teri
Twittering about the DC adventure since Dec '09...
(Micro)Blog * Photo Album
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Robin
Yak Addict
USA
598 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2006 : 7:05:52 PM
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| Thanks teri,for sharing your experience what peice of history. It's great that you are in a book club and have filed trips to boot! One day I'll make TIMe for that sort of thing, for now hearing from you and the people here who read interesting books will suffice. Hope you're having a wonderful holiday season too:)Peace, Robin |
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tericee
Alien Abductee
USA
2579 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2006 : 4:54:07 PM
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Update on the Ski Heil thing; I've done a little research and it came before Hitler. Perhaps Hitler, who was Austrian, knew the phrase and turned it into Sieg Heil when he rose to power.
As far as the Swing Heil thing goes, however, that phrase was invented in the 30's/40's and used by the "swing kids" to thumb their noses at Hitler.
teri :) |
teri
Twittering about the DC adventure since Dec '09...
(Micro)Blog * Photo Album
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Satan, king of Peace.......
