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Biff the Pig
Chatterbox
USA
147 Posts |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
 Posted - 09/27/2006 : 11:34:19 PM
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| i hate paganini. guitarists always bust that shit out and think they're good. but it's never impressive. going fast and not making any mistakes is what typists do, no musicians. going fast and not making mistakes only part of it. |
death to false metal. |
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Biff the Pig
Chatterbox
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2006 : 11:39:04 PM
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i knew dan p. would have an opinion on this! i really don't know much about paganini other than a lot of people say it's hard to play his stuff with emotion. so, point well taken dan, however, i'm still at the point in my guitar skill that this impresses me..  |
www.myspace.com/travismoore3 |
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Ranting Thespian
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2006 : 01:13:34 AM
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| I have to say, it is impressive, but not what I am really into. Still, kudos is that's what you like. |
Not communicating can hurt more than any word that can be said -
Nick
-the Ranting Thespian |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2006 : 11:17:16 AM
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| that's not say paganini pieces don't have their uses. they're great as drills and etudes for speed and fluidity. but i wouldn't choose one of his works as a performance piece, simply because there's little you can do with it, musically. the only real differences i've heard between all the times i've heard different people play any of his pieces, is a difference in accuracy, just in how fast and how clean it could be performed. it's terribly boring. i like very fast, very technical playing, insofar as it has other things going for it. |
death to false metal. |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2006 : 9:16:03 PM
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Dan, if a guitarist busts that stuff out and can play it clean they probably are good. Sure they could sit and play one piece for a few years and have no other talent, but I would doubt it. Too bad you don't like Paganini. Not my favorite composer, but there are some good pieces IMO. Oh and FYI both musicians and typists go fast and don't make mistakes (at least the good ones do).
That girl played that beautifully. Especially when you consider she's like 12 years at the most. Her right hand is pretty impressive for her age. Most players don't develop their right hand till much later on because their too concerned with the left. She's definitly got a good sound going. |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2006 : 01:40:07 AM
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false. musicians don't just play fast and clean without making any mistakes. doing that is just a part of being a musician, whereas that is all that is required of a typist. your comparision of the two is wrong.
if a guitarist plays this piece for me, it doesn't probably mean he's good. it means he or she has good technique. nothing more, nothing less. good technique doesn't equal good musician. i've been around enough guitar majors to know that the ones who gravitate towards paginini and his ilk tend to lack in other key areas. honestly? i'd rather hear mary had a little lamb played well in all respects than to hear yet another person blaze through what is essentially a long scale study. i don't like paginini. he's what malmsteem would be if malmsteen played violin. and malmsteem fucking blows.
playing fast is easy. it's easy to do. there's little thought required in going through a piece to show off your speed. you don't have to worry as much, or at all, about shaping the melody, dynamics, expression, or even tone and tone variation an awful lot. you make sure your shit is tuned and go. it's easy to learn, too. it's all muscle memory, really. synching your hands, keeping your fingers close to fretboard, and planting them ahead, ect. but all that other stuff? not only does it require a certain technical ability, it also demands that more attention be paid to how it sounds. what dynamics work well where? what sort of tone would be best in what places? you have to consider the piece as a whole. in my opinion, once you start looking at a piece of music like that, including speed, then you're making music. then you're a musician. you need only look at tim reynolds for an example of what a musician does.
and yeah, i know she's just 12. so i'm not like, denying that she's any good. it's actually really impressive. i agree, her right hand is surprisingly good. she shows a lot of promise. all i'm saying is, there's a risk of falling into that trap of speed. |
death to false metal. |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2006 : 01:52:17 AM
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one more thing, now that we're on the topic of good musicianship, and in this case, good guitar playing. is just me, or does no one know how to do a fucking pull-off anymore? i'm real sick of hearing thses pull-off that sound like some kind of reverse hammer-on. that's not what that is. you lose so much off the second note when that happens. a pull off has a second, lesser attack to it resulting from pulling the finger off the fret. that's why it's called that. you plant both fingers where they need to be. you strike the first note. you pull your finger off that note. pull. not lift. it's not a "lift off." it's more of a pulling motion. you know. for pull offs.
jesus. ok. time to check my blood pressure, take me "don't get overly angry at something that really doesn't call for the much anger," and go to bed. |
death to false metal. |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2006 : 9:27:53 PM
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So basically you don't like fast things? Or you don't like fast things that require techinique?
You may not enjoy paganini or this piece of music, but you're a little over the edge on the whole people play fast to show off chops and not music. I've heard the arguement for bass stuff too. The Dragonetti concerto is nothing musically and just for showing off technique (usually coming from people who can't play the damn thing). If you think this piece has no musical merit then that's your opinion, but maybe try not putting down good playing cause of your bias.
BTW your first statement about musicians don't just play fast and clean etc. I'm pretty sure I just said both typists and musicians go fast and don't make mistakes and never did I suggest that's all they do or that was more than just being part of a musician. |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2006 : 11:58:21 PM
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no. i don't know how you worked it out so that you think i don't like fast things, or fast things that require good technique. being largely a "metal" guy (real metal, mind. not this shitty nu-metal stuff that dominates the american metal scene,) most of the shit i listen too is blazing fast. it also happens to be well phrased, and well crafted with attention to chord progression and harmony. what i'm saying is simply that pieces with the sole purpose of being fast are just that: fast. and "fast" does not equal "good." fast is only half the battle. you, for some reason, equate fast playing with good playing ("If you think this piece has no musical merit then that's your opinion, but maybe try not putting down good playing cause of your bias." in reference to the dragonetti concerto.) but fast playing is not good playing. fast playing is fast playing. it's not anything else. and that sort of thing is fine, no, essential in the practice room, but i'm not entirely sure that fast for the sake of fast has a place in performance.
maybe it's semantics, though. when you say "good playing" do you mean "good technique?" if so, then yeah, i'm with you. the girl's got good technique. remarkable, really. but forget the girl for now. i think there's a world of difference between good playing and good technique, and it's dangerous to confuse the two, because you end up relying too much on your speed to impress people. and playing fast to show people you can play fast, seems masturbatory to me.
and you're right. people who play things like this and the dragonetti concerto usually can't really play it, and don't really know it or understand it. i notice when someone plays a very fast piece, and they're asked to slow it down so maybe they can get all the notes, they struggle. that seems to me a sign that the person doesn't know the piece, and that they're just going through hand motions. |
death to false metal. |
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Silky The Pimp
Alien Abductee
3321 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2006 : 08:51:01 AM
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| Asian work ethic + guitar = damn. |
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KevinLesko
Alien Abductee
3712 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2006 : 3:04:41 PM
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There is this Audiophile newsletter that I subscribe to, that reccomended a classical guitar cd by a new guy named Georg Gulyas, so I decided to check it out, and I highly reccomend it, especially anyone with an SACD player and surround sound.
http://www.elusivedisc.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PRSAM2030 |
god
Kevin |
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Paganini's Caprice No. 24
