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Fluffy
Administrator
USA
10739 Posts |
 Posted - 03/19/2006 : 6:20:12 PM
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CALABASAS, Calif. - No more smoking in the park. Lighting up on the sidewalk could bring a fine. Dining on the restaurant patio? Don't bother asking for matches.
One of the strictest tobacco bans in the nation went into effect in the Los Angeles suburb of Calabasas last week, making smoking off limits in public places where someone else might be exposed to secondhand smoke: indoor businesses, outdoor businesses, parks, outdoor cafes, even apartment building common areas.
"We just don't want anyone blowing smoke in someone's face. Unfortunately, what smokers do is harmful to everybody else. People should have the right to breathe clean air," said Mayor Pro Tem Dennis Washburn.
California air-quality regulators declared secondhand smoke a toxic air pollutant earlier this year.
The city took it a step farther, declaring secondhand smoke to be a public nuisance and approving an ordinance banning smoking in all public places — indoors and out — where people might congregate.
Hotels can still allow smoking in up to 20 percent of their rooms, and smoking can be allowed in approved designated areas at shopping malls and work places in the upscale city of 23,000 residents.
But if a nonsmoker asks a smoker to stop, the smoker must snuff it or face a possible fine in the hundreds of dollars or even a lawsuit.
"We salute Calabasas for raising the bar," said Jim Knox, a legislative advocate for the American Cancer Society in Sacramento. "Smoke regulations can play a very important role in reducing public exposure to harmful secondhand smoke."
Nationally, hundreds of U.S. cities and several states restrict smoking. In California, where communities have been at the forefront of smoking bans, San Francisco last year banned smoking in parks and stadiums, and oceanfront communities' smoking bans have inspired others in Florida and Delaware to designate smoke-free beaches.
Among the states, Colorado lawmakers last week approved a statewide ban on smoking in most public building, and New Jersey's Smoke-Free Air Act, under fire from bar owners because it exempts casino gambling floors, goes into effect April 15.
http://www.cityofcalabasas.com/secondhandsmoke-faq.html |
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy         
"THE MUSIC BUSINESS IS A CRUEL AND SHALLOW MONEY TRENCH-- A LONG PLASTIC HALLWAY WHERE THIEVES AND PIMPS RUN FREE AND GOOD MEN DIE LIKE DOGS. THERE'S ALSO A NEGATIVE SIDE..." -Hunter S. Thompson |
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Robin
Yak Addict
USA
598 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2006 : 11:49:03 PM
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| Fluffy,I actually thought of you when I saw this on the news...I'm not sure what I think about it yet. Peace, Robin |
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dialect
Try A Little Harder
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2006 : 02:39:00 AM
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"But if a nonsmoker asks a smoker to stop, the smoker must snuff it or face a possible fine in the hundreds of dollars or even a lawsuit."
that seems really shady
i understand banning smoking in public places, (even though it seems a bit extreme)but giving someone that power over another seems shady |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2006 : 09:58:16 AM
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i undestand banning smoking in some public places. but banning it in bars and restaurants is stupid. bars especially. you're already drinking too much. eliminating second hand smoke isn't going to make it that much less damaging to your health. restaurants are an ok place to smoke, too. suppose i want to smoke after my meal. the smoking and non-smoking sections worked fine. the non-smoking sections never smelled like smoke to me, anywhere. but ok, make me go outside. there's still people coming in and out. you haven't eliminated the problem of second hand smoke, only relocated it. but i guess if you can't see it, it goes away, right? i had another really good solution to people smoking around me in restaurants. it worked wonders. i did this thing where i used my legs and walked away. if a place was consistantly too smoky, i just didn't go to that place.
and i know a lot of people worry about the workers, bartenders and waiters, who got exposed to second hand smoke. firstly, every time the breathe the air outside they're getting lungfuls of shit, so it doesn't even matter. secondly, it's their fucking job. a bartender doesn't like second hand smoke? he should have thought about that beforehand. it's like, suppose there's a guy who took a job eating bees. "a bee stung my mouth!" yeah. because you took a job eating bees. |
death to false metal. |
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Jay
Alien Abductee
Vatican City
2279 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2006 : 10:42:21 AM
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Shouldn't it be up to the buisness owners themselves? I can see someone saying no smoking in the post office, but who smokes in the post office? I just see the nonsmokers bitching and moaning about something that will maybe affect them. It's like, if you don't like tobacco smoke, go somewhere else. If someone opens a restaraunt and decides not to let people smoke, then great. But when a law gets passed that says, "You can't allow smoking indoors because someone might not want to inhale second hand smoke," It's like, yeah well I don't want to breathe in the black smoke that billows out the city trucks and the rubber factories. 3000 people a year die from second hand smoke...how do they know this?
Either way, I don't think Denny's will be affected. If I can sit, drink coffee and smoke at 5 AM in Denny's in Mentor Ohio, I don't mind what California decides. |
"Hey man...you smell..."
"Oh yeah?"
"yeah...like dinner..." |
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Arthen
Alien Abductee
USA
4845 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2006 : 11:27:15 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jay
I just see the nonsmokers bitching and moaning about something that will maybe affect them. It's like, if you don't like tobacco smoke, go somewhere else.
No maybe about it. Secondhand smoke is a carcinogen. I'm not sure how I feel about it, but when I walk across campus at my school, there will be certain times when I'll be walking behind someone who's smoking and I get breath after breath of it. I can handle it, but I don't like it. I'd prefer if everyone smoked weed, I don't find the smoke as harsh as cigarette smoke. |
Steve Hackett: "I'm my own opening act, you see."
Tim (before "Faceoff"): "Peace, love....and SEX!"
cbenc41@hotmail.com |
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Robin
Yak Addict
USA
598 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2006 : 12:50:54 PM
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| Yea Arthen! Spoken like a true Californian.I really appreciate the smoking ban in restaurants, when you smoke you don't notice the smell of it and non-smoking sections don't help at all. I'm truly against non-smokers asking smokers to put out their cigg. There's something very weird about encouraging that kind of interaction.I have friends who smoke and it's o.k. for me to be around them, but my clothes totally reek the next day.Smoke more weed!! Peace, Robin |
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guitfiddler
Chatterbox
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2006 : 9:06:32 PM
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I am a smoker. Yes damnit, I smoke! I understand the restaurants. We smokers have been exiled for a while now, so we are use to it. All we want are bars and bowling alleys. If I can't smoke in a bar or bowling alley, I will leave this country!!! Luckily, I live in NC, the home of tobacco, so it will be a while before this happens. SMOKE ON SMOKERS!!! Here's a link
http://www.smokersclubinc.com/ |
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Jay
Alien Abductee
Vatican City
2279 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2006 : 9:22:12 PM
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| Yeah, weed's a whole lot better smelling and whatnot, but what I'm saying is that it should be up to the induvidual buissness owner if he or she can allow smoking on their property. |
"Hey man...you smell..."
"Oh yeah?"
"yeah...like dinner..." |
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tericee
Alien Abductee
USA
2579 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2006 : 11:32:21 AM
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| I agree with that. If a person wants to open a restaurant, bar, store, or whatever, and they want to say SMOKERS WELCOME, they should be allowed to. People who don't want smoke are then welcome to eat, drink, or shop ELSEWHERE. If the proprieter makes less money because he has only smoking customers, he can reassess his decision. |
teri 
Twittering about the DC adventure since Dec '09...
(Micro)Blog * Photo Album
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2006 : 6:07:22 PM
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| i'm not a smoker, either. i just understand that no matter where i go, my lungs are being bombarded by crap, and cracking down on smokers won't make any difference. i also really like freedom, and these laws do a good job of chipping away at that. seems like they belong in the patriot act. |
death to false metal. |
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tericee
Alien Abductee
USA
2579 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2006 : 05:02:41 AM
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Yet another reason I like the libertarian philosophy. The Libertarian FAQ (http://www.faqs.org/faqs/libertarian/faq/) says:
"In a libertarian society, the smoking policy would be set by the bar or restaurant owner. Customers would patronize the establishments that had the policy they preferred, much as they do today. For example, I avoid places that are smoke-filled, and opt for restaurants that are smoke-free or have separate accommodations for smokers and non-smokers. As a customer, I have no right to dictate smoking policy any more than I have a right to dictate the color schemes for clothing manufacturers. However, I let both know my preferences by voting with my dollars to do business with them or their competitors." Excerpt from "The Liberator OnLine," http://www.self-gov.org/liberator.
The Libertarians of Minnesota (who have been fighting a smoking ban in restaurants recently) also make this point:
The ban also diverts our police away from real crimes like murder, rape, and theft. Police should be finding real criminals instead of non-violent smokers. (http://www.lpmn.org/smoking.php) |
teri
Twittering about the DC adventure since Dec '09...
(Micro)Blog * Photo Album
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Fluffy
Administrator
USA
10739 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2006 : 08:39:40 AM
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quote:
The ban also diverts our police away from real crimes like murder, rape, and theft. Police should be finding real criminals instead of non-violent smokers.
I've been saying that for years about the "war on drugs"! Please officer, don't waste your time busting pot smokers and tying up both our judicial courts and our jails with non-violent offenders. There are real criminals in the world who deserve to be punished for crimes against their fellow man, not the folks who excercise their freedom of choice to smoke pot. Don't know about you, but I am more afraid of the murder, rapist, robber than I am the pot smoker. Sad state of affairs! |
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy
"THE MUSIC BUSINESS IS A CRUEL AND SHALLOW MONEY TRENCH-- A LONG PLASTIC HALLWAY WHERE THIEVES AND PIMPS RUN FREE AND GOOD MEN DIE LIKE DOGS. THERE'S ALSO A NEGATIVE SIDE..." -Hunter S. Thompson |
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CosmicHomesickAlien
Is Anybody Here?
USA
31 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2006 : 08:53:27 AM
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quote:
I just understand that no matter where i go, my lungs are being bombarded by crap, and cracking down on smokers won't make any difference. i also really like freedom, and these laws do a good job of chipping away at that. seems like they belong in the patriot act.
Thanks dan. I am a smoker and to hear that from a non somker really shocks me because all the other non smokers I know just complain about second hand smoke. I guess they just don't see the big picture as well as some other people do. |
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Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2006 : 10:45:25 AM
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The big picture, Crills? Are you retarded? The big picture is quicker, more painful death...for everyone.
I am a light smoker and think it's FUCKING FANATSTIC that they are banning cigarettes all over the place now; especially in restaurants and bars. Who, after a great meal, wants to sit in the same fucking spot they just ate, and huff fucking nasty chemicals (we all know how many poisons are in cigarettes, I hope) down into their fucking lungs, possibly with non-smokers at the table. It's just fucking ignorant.
The government SHOULD mandate no smoking at all, in fact, I am fucking hella surprised that it has gone this far considering the tobacco industries' ties with the American government and its significant lobbying abilities.
All smoking does to people is make them more diseased, less able bodied, and fucking generally more unhealthy. People who whine about the 'freedom' to smoke should be out there touting the fucking benefits of suicide.
EMPOWER AMERICANS, BAN PUBLIC SMOKING!
EDIT: America, as a whole, has become and addicitive society. It has become clearly represented by American consumer wants that we want more and more and more of everything. Contentednesss is an all but dead quality in our 'global' society. MORE MORE MORE. MORE sex. MORE shit we dont need to buy. MORE channels. MORE cigarettes, MORE plastic surgery. Let's start weening away our addictions with the easy ones...the smoking, the poisonous foods, the gas-guzzelers: the things that are having the most immediate devastating effects or us as a people; the ones that common sense tells us we shouldn't be partaking in in the first place. |
http://db.etree.org/hopefulrollingwaves/ < My Trading List |
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rubylith
Fluffy-Esque
1915 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2006 : 10:50:23 AM
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just like they should ban genetic engineering. Im all for it man.
It is a fine line, is banning smoking taking away a right, or is it better for everyone overall.
For instance it being illegal to drive 110 on Rt 78 here in NJ. It is better for everyone and safer.
People shouldnt smoke, these scumbag companys are enslaving the masses with there disease causing product. I don't htink they could ban it, but shut these fucking companies down. If a guy wants to grow some tobacco and smoke it I think you should be able to, but they should not be sold in stores, especially right next to the poisonous candy section.
I don't know, I smoke, I am quitting right now, it sucks, I feel like a slave hypocrite and I regret ever beginning because I know I will die form it. |
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Fluffy
Administrator
USA
10739 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2006 : 11:26:23 AM
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I am positive that cigarettes are making all the difference in California's air quality. Wow, people in CA face a risk of cancer and of the things listed cigarette smoke is not one of them. What a shocker.(read with much sarcasm)
EPA Says Dirtiest Air in New York, California
LOS ANGELES (March 22) - New Yorkers and Californians breathe in the dirtiest air in the nation and face higher cancer risks than the rest of the nation, according to the latest data from the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.
New York's cancer risk is estimated to be 68 residents per million. In California, the risk is 66 residents per million.
The national average is 41.5 per million, according to the report, which was released in February and based on emissions of 177 chemicals in 1999, the most recent data available.
Oregon, Washington, D.C. and New Jersey had the third, fourth and fifth worst air in the nation, respectively, the EPA said. Rural residents of Wyoming, South Dakota and Montana breathed the cleanest air.
The EPA assessment evaluated toxins including heavy metals, such as lead; volatile chemicals, such as benzene; combustion byproducts, such as acrolein; and solvents, including perchloroethylene and methylene chloride.
The National-Scale Air Toxics Assessment (NATA) is a screening tool that estimates cancer and other health risks from exposure to emissions of air toxics in 1999.
The assessment provides a snapshot of air quality and the risks that would result if 1999 emissions levels remained unchanged. It does not reflect reductions in air toxins that may have occurred since 1999 or those anticipated to occur in the future.
03/22/06 06:49 EST
Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. |
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy
"THE MUSIC BUSINESS IS A CRUEL AND SHALLOW MONEY TRENCH-- A LONG PLASTIC HALLWAY WHERE THIEVES AND PIMPS RUN FREE AND GOOD MEN DIE LIKE DOGS. THERE'S ALSO A NEGATIVE SIDE..." -Hunter S. Thompson |
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rubylith
Fluffy-Esque
1915 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2006 : 11:48:44 AM
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| if you drive a hummer, you are an asshole. |
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Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
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guitfiddler
Chatterbox
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2006 : 9:48:42 PM
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quote:
EMPOWER AMERICANS, BAN PUBLIC SMOKING!
Why stop there? Let's ban fast food, cars, sharp objects, roller skates...(also read with sarcasm)
I usually agree with you HRW, but not this time. You have the right to clean air, I have the right to smoke, Arnold has the right to drive a Hummer. Arnold and I may be assholes, but we have the right to be. I won't smoke while you are eating, but I sure as hell will smoke when I'm drinking. I understand your point but until fossil fuels stop burning and Hummers stop movin', I WILL SMOKE!!!! |
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Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2006 : 01:00:22 AM
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| In the privacy of your own home, do whatever you want, in public, keep the noxious fumes to yourself my man, I'd do the same for you if you asked. |
http://db.etree.org/hopefulrollingwaves/ < My Trading List |
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therippa
Fluffy-Esque
Kazakhstan
1099 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2006 : 01:58:07 AM
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I can understand not smoking in restaurants, but bars? Come on. You're drinking poision, who cares if you inhale a little. Luckily I've found a few irish bars in SF that let me smoke.
What happened in Calabasas is ridiculous. Besides, second hand smoking leads to second hand coolness. |
Aspiring to Be Fluffy-Esque an Alien Abductee! |
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Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2006 : 03:15:45 AM
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What's the big deal, you wanna cigarette, go outside. Is that too much trouble, and don't even compare a beer to a cigarette, the effects of habitual cigarette smoke are far worse than that of even a moderate drinking habit. So don't even play that card.
And did anyone ask me at the bar I'm in if I didn't mind leaving the place smelling like a fucking chemical plant meltdown? Fuck that. If I take a girl out for a drink, I don't be riding home smelling like a pack of fucking Lucky Strikes...blah.
Fuck smoking! |
http://db.etree.org/hopefulrollingwaves/ < My Trading List |
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guitfiddler
Chatterbox
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2006 : 04:04:24 AM
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| That is one of the funniest articles that I have ever read |
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CosmicHomesickAlien
Is Anybody Here?
USA
31 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2006 : 08:49:23 AM
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You're right you can't compare a beer to a cigarette, but how many people do you know that go to the bar and have one drink. All i'm saying is that there are plenty of other things that can kill you twice as fast as cigarette smoke can and most of the time you don't even have control of those things. I have the ability to stop smoking, but i do not have the ability to stop the drunk driver who is about to t-bone me at 50 mph. This is taking away my freedom because i am a smoker, if you don't want it in the bar or the restaraunt why don't we take a cue from the dutch. In most of their bars and coffee houses they have a separate smoking lounge that is completely sealed of from the rest of the facility. No i'm not talking about where you go to smoke pot. Then you don't have people walking in and out all the time creating more problems for security and also possibly fire hazzards at the main door. When i do go out to eat i usaully sit in the smoking section and when i finish eating i do intend to light a cigarette, if i am sitting with non smokers (which is usually not the case) and if one of them asks me if i would go else where i have no problem with that but i shouldn't have to leave the restaraunt, That's why they call it the smoking section. The fact that they would like to try to ban smoking outdoors is absolutely absurd, especailly in california those people must be smoking some real good shit. Anyway if these laws are followed through with what might we ask is next? Well maybe they'll come up with, You can no longer drive a motorized vehicle for more than 45 minutes a day because it is polluting the atmosphere and making the air to dangerous to breathe. Go fuck yourself!!!
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Fluffy
Administrator
USA
10739 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2006 : 1:41:32 PM
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Bottom line is I don't want the govt telling people what they can and can't do. As Tericee pointed out so eloquently, it should be the decision of the business owner. Then each person can decide for themselves whether they want to be a patron of that business. Let's say a man buys a bar. He is a smoker. It is HIS bar, much like HIS home, or HIS car. He cannot smoke in HIS own bar? Well that just smacks of dictatorship to me. He doesn't mind the smokers or the smoke yet he doesn't have the freedom to control the rules in HIS own establishment. BULLSHIT I tell you BULLSHIT. Taking away someone RIGHTS for someone else is just wrong. Where does it end. We are supposed to be a free society where we make our own decisions about what we choose to do. Now smokers can't smoke, bar and restaurant owners can't choose to allow smoking in THEIR establishment. It was supposed to be about FREEDOM and choice. That is slowly, scratch that, QUICKLY being taken away from us. If someone chooses to kill themselves with cigarettes or alcohol, THEIR choice. It is your CHOICE not to patron establishments that allow smoking. Seems in a FREE society that is how it should be. Now where is the bar and restaurants owners choice and now where is the smokers choice. As for outdoor smoking. When these people who care about smoking outdoors begin to address the issue of automobiles, factories, global warming and farting AS WELL I will be more inclined to listen to what they have to say, but attacking one tiny part of the problem seems pointless. Stopping smoking in public will not stop non-smokers from getting cancer. Just look at the story I posted above about air quality. quote:
Californians breathe in the dirtiest air in the nation and face higher cancer risks than the rest of the nation
I guarantee you it's not secondhand cigarette smoke thats causing that kind of bad air quality in CA. No where in that story does it mention cigarettes as contributing to this bad air quality. The air is fucked and they seem to think that stopping people from smoking in public will stop this threat to their lungs. New's flash non-smokers: There are far worse things in the air to concern yourself with. While cigarettes may be annoying to non-smokers, they should not be their biggest fear for contracting cancer. People get a clue. We don't need more laws, we need better laws. What we need is more freedom in our supposedly FREE society. My friends in Germany laugh all the TIMe, we go out to dinner and you can smoke in the restaurant after your meal. Hell, you can take your dog in the restaurant with you. I pointed this out to the Germans, I said "You can take your dog into the restaurant? You can smoke in here? You can hire a prostitute?" etc etc etc etc Their answer was always the same, "You can't do this in America? And you live in the FREE country Fluffy!"(read with MUCH german sarcasm) |
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy
"THE MUSIC BUSINESS IS A CRUEL AND SHALLOW MONEY TRENCH-- A LONG PLASTIC HALLWAY WHERE THIEVES AND PIMPS RUN FREE AND GOOD MEN DIE LIKE DOGS. THERE'S ALSO A NEGATIVE SIDE..." -Hunter S. Thompson |
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Evergreen
Yak Addict
960 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2006 : 2:24:22 PM
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Well said Fluffy!!!!! all of it. esp the stuff about the OTHER crap in the air from autos and factories....lets address THAT please. Is cigarette smoke killing lakes rivers forests and fish (please no environmental freak comments)???
currently in burlington vt it is illegal to smoke in bars, clubs or restaurants. all of the public input forums indicated that the people did not want gov't involved, esp in the club scene and did not want the law passed (similar to the seatbelt law discussion of a few yrs ago), It was the concensus among the citizens that owners should decide. yet the no smoking law was passed. Currently the Veterans Clubs are REALLY going ballistic because they are private clubs yet they are being fined because the patrons/Vets refuse to stop smoking inside THEIR clubs(awesome)! Something else....I know of a few people who own bars/clubs in the area. since the laws were passed they have lost a considerable amount of money and some had to close shortly after these law changes. Is that fair?? |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2006 : 01:43:48 AM
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if someone wants to smoke, go outside? how about you're not a fetus and you can walk away if you hate smoke.
interinalize this deep wisdom: there are other people, and they will consistantly do things that piss you off, bother you, vex you, and any other term for making you angry you can think of. you can't make laws against everything that does. it's a typical american reaction. "let's make a law." you'd sell someone else's ability to choose to smoke, and an establishment owner's ability to decide if he wants smoking in his place or not, for your own comfort? selfish. i agree, smoking is gross. if you said to me "dan, we got two rooms. one's full of disgusting smoke, and one's filled with aspen fresh air. where do you want to sit?" i'm gonna go with the fresh air one. but i'm not going to say "you know what? the fresh air one. and not only that, i don't want any smoke near me ever, no matter where it is or who it inconviences because i think it's gross, and my own on preferences should be mandate." that's what i would call unreasonable. it's also what i would call irrelevent because you're breathing in bad air, no matter where you are. it's something i'd call hyppocritical, because you drive a car. period. you're as guilty as any smoker, any day of the week.
also, if you're taking a girl home from a bar and your clothes smell like shit, it doesn't matter because the two of you should be naked soon anyway, and if not, what the fuck did you buy all those drinks for? |
death to false metal. |
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guitfiddler
Chatterbox
USA
136 Posts |
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Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2006 : 02:48:11 AM
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| I am not a fan of the "Fuck you, I smoke," attitude, and that's essentially what'd you are saying to someone you light up next to. |
http://db.etree.org/hopefulrollingwaves/ < My Trading List |
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tericee
Alien Abductee
USA
2579 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2006 : 10:21:13 AM
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| I have a few smoking friends here in Germany and they are so used to way they were treated in America that they won't smoke in a local restaurant or bar here. (It's perfectly legal; there are very few places here with a non-smoking section.) Even if there's somebody smoking at the tables around us. I find that ironic. |
teri
Twittering about the DC adventure since Dec '09...
(Micro)Blog * Photo Album
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PJK
Alien Abductee
USA
4159 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2006 : 4:05:20 PM
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That is ironic, Teri. I don't smoke, never did and if I am around smoke it can cause me to have an asthma attack, but not always. I am therefore happy with restaruants that have non-smoking sections. I don't however, feel that smokers should not be able to smoke in restaruants or bars. I too believe it should be up to the establishment.
I know when I went to the Chameleon Club to see TR, I thought "Oh no, I am never going to last to see TR with all this smoke in here," but I don't know if it was the high ceilings or the ventalation system or what, but even though a lot of people around me were smoking, it didn't get in my face. I ended up not being bothered by it at all.
It always bothered me how the government taxed cigarettes and alcohol to get money for things like roads etc. So call "sin" taxes never made sense to me.
On the other hand, I think smoking and then turning around and trying to sue the tobacco companies because of getting lung cancer is equally wrong under most circumstances. |
"It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!"Friedrich Nietzsche |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2006 : 4:43:40 PM
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| i like not dealing with smoke, too. the law works in my favor. i just don't think it's entirely fair. when you light up next to someone, i don't think you're saying anything at all. i think you're lighting a cigarette. it'd be nice to get a "do you mind if i smoke," i don't get offended if someone doesn't. they smoke. so what. |
death to false metal. |
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Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2006 : 11:29:49 AM
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Smoking is highly destructive to the human body, bottom line.
Yes, yes...everything kills us, right? Well, that's not a fucking argument.
Hopefully they pass similar outdoor laws here in Jersey, where we already have the 5th worst air quality in the country. I am rural, so it's not as bad...but it all creeps in in time. |
http://db.etree.org/hopefulrollingwaves/ < My Trading List |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2006 : 1:32:09 PM
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well, yes, it is the fucking argument. how is it not? you have your righteous indignation about how smoking is ruining everyone's health and enviornment and it's really gross and should be outlawed everywhere but homes. but you lack the simple reasoning skills to see that if you are against smoking for those reasons, you are against all other things that contribute to declining health and bad air. you have to be. you can screech about smoking all you want, but if you ignore and contribute to a much larger problem that yields similar results, you're just a hypocrite. saying that the only thing that's the argument here is smoking indicates to me that you're not concerned with bad air and pollution at all. your objection to smoking is, pure and simple, petty self-interest. why not just stop making claims about how bad it is for everyone and admit that you're concerned about it only insofar as it concerns yourself?
summed up: your arguments against smoking have to do with health and bad air. you yourself have brought these issues up, and therefore anything that contributes to poor health and bad air are relevent to this conversation, since the argument ceases to be about smoking only, and becomes about bad health and bad air. if you don't want to bring it up, it's because you know you have no argument against it. |
death to false metal. |
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Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2006 : 3:29:19 PM
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I drive fuel economical vehicles and try not to buy too many plastics, either. These are for the environment, and ultimately, in other people's interests. Not fucking smoking around someone is in their interests. If anyone gave a fuck about other people's interests, there would be no arguments here. If anyone here had the synaptical energy to conjure the thought, "Gee, should I light up this fucking disgusting cigarette right here around these other people who are not smoking, and inhale all sorts of noxious fumes which include cyanide and a host of other horrid poisons into my lungs then spew in back into the atmosphere n the close quarters of these other patrons in order to make their air horrid as well, all the while recieving no physical benefit whatsoever, or just wait till I am leaving and do it in my car, which smells like an ashtray?"
Mmm? What would Jesus do? |
http://db.etree.org/hopefulrollingwaves/ < My Trading List |
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rubylith
Fluffy-Esque
1915 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2006 : 4:40:54 PM
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Hopefuly Rolling Waves is probably the most enviromentally conscious person I know. He taught me a lot about how to improve the environment in my day to day actions.
I smoke, I am quitting and I regret ever beginning, I am a slave and a hypocrite for that.
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2006 : 4:31:31 PM
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what would jesus do? i'm sure he wouldn't piss and moan about smokers who smoke next to them, and make it sound like they're pumping out 8 thousand metric tons of poison a second right into your face like you did. i believe jesus had a policy of "turn the other cheek." maybe you've heard of it. it's in the bible somewhere along with "love thy enemies" and that sort of thing. so i don't suppose he'd get too worked up about some smoke. you have to remember, this man let people nail his hands and feet to some wood. i'd be willing to bet second hand smoke won't phase him.
on the other hand, i don't suppose he'd smoke around other people in general, or at all. i think it'd all go out the spear wound, anyway.
bottom line, though. it'd be great if smokers did that away from the rest of us. but a lot of times they don't. too fucking bad, i guess. it isn't your call where they smoke. if the people who own the place say it's ok, then you're s.o.l. ain't your place. and outside? yeah, outside is really poorly ventilated. you smoke weed? you think that shit's all rainbows and rose petals? merh. ever do it at a concert? |
death to false metal. |
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PJK
Alien Abductee
USA
4159 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2006 : 09:34:48 AM
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SMOKERS BEWARE OF NEW JERSEY.........new ban in effect, no smoking in public places.....except the casinos, I mean, why would the casinos be under the same ruling as everyone else? (sarcasm)  |
"It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!"Friedrich Nietzsche |
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Robin
Yak Addict
USA
598 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2006 : 1:13:48 PM
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HRW I'm with you, I have friends who smoke, I lost my grandfather and a dear friend to smoking related ilness. And when I was in a club where people smoked seeing shows two days in a row, the days after I was coughing and had crap in my lungs.So it does affect those who don't smoke.
And I totally reeked! My hair my clothes... I am all for rights and freedom but who's freedom? Smoking may not kill all the people who smoke, but it isn't good for you. Ca air is not all bad unless you live in L.A. or the central valley. Yes our world is polluted, but I'm not suckin a tailpipe to hasten the process of possible disease. You can argue all you want that it somehow isn't detrimental to your health, and the health of those around you and your deluding yourself. I too believe that club owners should have the right to choose.I can manage to deal with smoking as I choose to see music in some of them. But what about people like Pam who have Asthma? Should she not have acsess to music because smokers have more rights?I'm grateful for restaurants that are are smoke free. When you smoke your sense of smell is lessened. I remember after I quit how acute that sense became. When someone is smoking a foot away in the "no smoking section" it still ruins the air and the appeite of the person eating a foot away. My friends that smoke, I wish they wouldn't because I love them and it is so addictive.It's really hard to stop. I wasn't going to comment on this thread, but HRW made points that I agree with. Everyone made good points it's not an easy answer topic. However,I don't support the ban in parks and outdoors. It's a bit much. Peace,Robin |
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Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2006 : 07:59:26 AM
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Thanks, Robin. A voice of reason.
I am definitely extreme on the topic, though extreme measures are what this country has come to. If someone told me they were putting a ban on Drake's Cakes or Little Debbie's, I would rejoice the same on that topic. I think the state and federal governments should be doing more to negate the effects of erroneous advertising in order to promote a healthier country. Right now, it's bullshit. The FDA doesn't do shit, it's owned by special interests and tip-toes everywhere. Look how many people died from ephedra. Look how many cases of diabetes and autism are showing up here, and now all over the world because of lack of consumer initiative.
It's obvious that people are too stupid to know what's good for them and what's not, so if they need to be spoon fed, bring it on. |
http://db.etree.org/hopefulrollingwaves/ < My Trading List |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2006 : 1:41:11 PM
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we've established that smoking is bad for your health. no one is denying this fact, and anyone who does has lost all touch with reality. the question isn't about health. it's about freedom. you'll forgive me, robin, if i tell you that the loved ones you've lost aren't at all relevent here. i lost two grandparents because of smoking. it's sad, but you know what? doesn't at all address the issue here. that aside, you are the voice of reason here, and i don't think our opinions are all that different. you raise a good question with the asthma thing. while i have no immediate answer to that, i might suggest it's a bit like someone in a wheelchair who wants to use stairs. we all wish they could, but it doesn't seem like they will. life is not fair, you know this well, and some people lose out sometimes. for instance, i can't play sports like i used because of a health condition. should sports be modified to compensate for my own misfortune. i don't think it should.
i totally disagree with hrw, though. you really think it's the job of government to babysit people? you think the government should be spending time telling people, through advertisements and laws, laws now, how to eat, what habits not to take up? basically what you're suggesting is that the governments, federal down to local, influence, or coerse through law, how people live their private lives. sort of like outlawing gay marriage. love lives, like food consumption, and smoking cigarettes or marjiuana are not the business of government. i don't think it's their job. probably because i already have a mother. if someone wants to eat their way to a heart attack (like me,) or smoke and get cancer, i say fine. fuck 'em. let them die, if they're too stupid to know that smoking is bad, with all the information we have now. |
death to false metal. |
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Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2006 : 3:53:41 PM
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| hahaha, touché. |
death to false metal. |
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CA City Bans Smoking in Public Places
