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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
 Posted - 03/07/2006 : 5:39:23 PM
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http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/03/06/btsc.lavandrera.funerals/index.html
"you can't preach the bible without preaching god's hatred." what? has this guy even heard of the bible? has ever seen one? basically, some people need to get together and wipe them out. show them the true meaning of the dark side. |
death to false metal. |
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Muskrat
Chatterbox
USA
266 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2006 : 5:46:49 PM
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| Yeah, I heard about that on the news. Sad. The Bible does say that God hates certain things, but blaming homosexuals for dead troops is ludicrous. |
"You know, if you live long enough, eventually you're gonna die." -Words of wisdom from my dad |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2006 : 5:56:34 PM
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wrong. nowhere does the bible say god "hates" anything. it never says hate. show me book chapter and verse where it does. the canonical version i know doesn't say that, to the best of my recollection.
this man has a lot of things agaisnt him.
1. he assumes america is somehow very accepting of gays. it isn't.
2. he preaches to pretty much his family alone. and really, what the fuck.
3. again, where does it say "i/god/elohim/yaweh/He/the lord/ hate(s) homosexuals." i know jesus never said it. and what's christianity based on? oh yeah. the new testament. jesus's teachings. the old testament takes a back seat. |
death to false metal. |
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Muskrat
Chatterbox
USA
266 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2006 : 6:23:52 PM
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Hate:
Deuteronomy 16:22
Psalm 5:5
Psalm 11:5
PROVERBS 6:16
Isaiah 1:14
Isaiah 61:8
Jeremiah 44:4
Amos 5:21
Amos 6:8
Zechariah 8:17
Malachi 1:3
Malachi 2:16
Romans 9:13
Hebrews 1:9
Revelation 2:6
Revelation 2:16
Abomination
Leviticus 18:22, 26, 27, 29
Leviticus 20:13
The abomination list goes on and on....
All these references were taken from the The Holy Bible: King James Version.
And Jesus IS God, therefore, if God hates something, so does Jesus. |
"You know, if you live long enough, eventually you're gonna die." -Words of wisdom from my dad |
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Muskrat
Chatterbox
USA
266 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2006 : 9:41:22 PM
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Thought I would give some passages to back up my "Jesus is God" statement:
John 1:1-5
Colossians 1:15-16
Also from the KJV.
I don't know which version you're reading, perhaps a substitute word for "hate" is used. Or perhaps you recollect incorrectly. |
"You know, if you live long enough, eventually you're gonna die." -Words of wisdom from my dad |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2006 : 9:42:10 PM
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| the king james version bible is shit are far as translation of the actual texts are concerned. he comissioned it, did some of it himself, and payed poets and writers of the time to do it. all to make his view of the religion dominate. i suggest you look for a bible translated by scholars of the languages and religion. including the books not included in the canonical. the translations are far more accurate in relation to what the authors wrote, and therefore, if you believe, what god inspired them to write. |
death to false metal. |
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Muskrat
Chatterbox
USA
266 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2006 : 9:58:42 PM
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Ok, New Living Translation, whole new set of translators:
Deuteronomy 9:18
Deuteronomy 12:31
Deuteronomy 16:21
Psalm 5:5
Psalm 11:5
Proverbs 6:16
Proverbs 11:1
Proverbs 11:20
Ok I could go much further but I'm tired of this. Please enlighten me to your far more accurate translation that does not include the word hate. |
"You know, if you live long enough, eventually you're gonna die." -Words of wisdom from my dad |
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Muskrat
Chatterbox
USA
266 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2006 : 10:12:00 PM
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| No, never mind, you can't do it. So why don't you just stop typing. Dan, you are part of the reason I haven't been to these boards in a long time. This thread was started with me agreeing with you. Starting a debate is one thing, an argument is another. I am sick of your smart alec comments and know-it-all attitude. You are not unintelligent, yet you can't get into a debate without sarcasm and foul language. I can talk for hours with someone who is on the opposite side of the spectrum when it comes to politics, religion, etc. if they act like an adult, and not like a kid in a schoolyard doing his best to make the other kids feel stupid. I know what Christianity is based on, please don't insult my intelligence, and that of others. |
"You know, if you live long enough, eventually you're gonna die." -Words of wisdom from my dad |
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AGirlNamedPsycho
Try A Little Harder
USA
70 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2006 : 10:35:12 PM
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Fuck that Phelps motherfucker. He came to my town of Lincoln Nebraska and tried to protest a funeral of a guy I used to play Magic: The Gathering with who died in Iraq.
He brought 20-some cronies with him; the counter rally was 300 strong. Nobody talked to anybody, they just prevented the Phelps party from intruding. Phelps' daughter(?) was there and she was singing weird fucked up versions of God Bless America, shit like "God hates America, the home of fags" and stupid shit like that. I couldn't be there, but a friend of mine was there and relayed all this to me. Anyone who pickets a goddamned funeral with signs that say "God Hates Your Tears" is a fucking ass clam. |
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guitfiddler
Chatterbox
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2006 : 11:07:05 PM
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| I wish that bastard would come to a funeral of a family member of mine that died in a war. I swear to "god" I would shoot him in his face. The reason that he has the right to protest is because soldiers died to protect it. This story has put me into a furious rage. grrrrr.... |
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Arthen
Alien Abductee
USA
4845 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2006 : 12:29:24 AM
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I subscribe to the Arrian belief that Jesus is less than God, as he is begotten of God...
Nah, not really. We were studying the major heresies at the end of the Roman Empire in my Middle Ages course and I felt like using it somewhere... |
Steve Hackett: "I'm my own opening act, you see."
Tim (before "Faceoff"): "Peace, love....and SEX!"
cbenc41@hotmail.com |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2006 : 01:48:17 AM
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well gee. sorry, guy. i don't know about a know it all attitude or smart alec comments. that's really more your interpretation of what i say. i read it, and i see swear words, sure, but i don't see the other two. but then if you see it there, then maybe it is. i don't intend to run you down or fight you. i'll see if i can tone it down.
that being said, i'll give you the 8 citations, for argument's sake. 8 citations of god's hate. stack that against everything jesus said about love. do you really think god hates gays? he created them. we're learning that it's less a choice than a predisposition. and i don't remember ever having a choice of who i'm attracted to. but let's go further and suppose it isn't a choice. i feel that within christianity we have to take what jesus said above what anyone else said. if jesus says love thy neighbor, then love thy neighbor as thyself you must. it never says, love thy neighbor, unless he's gay/non-christian/whatever. if jesus says judge not lest ye be judged, then you can't judge. look at who jesus kept company with. the rejects, the unwanted, the unloved. i'll give you two instances where jesus talks about love for everyone one where the bible talks about god's hate. bottom line is this: was jesus about love and compassion and understanding and forgiveness? or what he about hate and vengence and rage? i'd have to say, without a doubt, the former. and if that conflicts with something else said by anyone else save god himself, jesus wins. and if it contradicts god, well then there is conflict between jesus and god. then you have to choose which to focus your energy on. love or hate?
just as a side note, i'm not saying jesus lived a perfect life. i don't think he did. i think he blasphemed on the cross: "my god, my god, why have you abandoned me?" to me, that's blasphemy. god? abandoning his only son or anyone (aside from lucifer and his rebels, but really they had it coming)? no. but i think that, in the context of christianty, we can pretty much just go with what christ says. |
death to false metal. |
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Muskrat
Chatterbox
USA
266 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2006 : 08:18:24 AM
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OK I don't have a lot of time on my hands at the moment but let me make it clear that I didn't say God hates homsexuals... but He does hate homosexuality. I have gay friends, a gay aunt... I don't hate gays!
I know God is a God of love, and he offers forgiveness and salvation to those that believe on Christ. I would say His hatred is a much smaller part of Him. But to say that it doesn't exist is wrong.
If it wasn't for God's grace I'd be screwed. |
"You know, if you live long enough, eventually you're gonna die." -Words of wisdom from my dad |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 01:22:36 AM
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i don't really understand. maybe when you have more time, could you explain how he hates homosexuality but not homosexuals? isn't homosexuality what makes homosexuals homosexuals? i'm real tired of typing that word already. i mean. . .is it just the act he hates? or is it just the abstract notion of being attracted to a member of the same sex? and how can he both hate something and forgive it? if you hate something, that's what that means; you don't forgive it. all in all i think hate is too strong a word for any of his deeds. even when he sent plauges and destroyed cities, was it hate? a father may punish his child without hating him. in all he does, god is righteous. can hate be righteous? if not, how can a righteous god act in hate?
i hesitate to even get into this, but what the hell. one of the big reasons i split with the church (even though later i came back to play guitar for them) is because i don't believe a belief in christ's divinity and sacrifice is requsite for entry into heaven. the passage that comes most clearly to mind is "no man may come to the father, but through the son." at first glance, and the one the church as an organization has made to be true, it does seem to suggest that "father" is god and "son" is jesus, and thusly the only way through god is through jesus. but what does "through the son" mean? faith in his divinity? or faith in his teachings? jesus preached love, forgiveness, and compassion. and ok, maybe a little fishing, too. you may have faith in the teachings, but not in his divinity. but really, doesn't a faith in someone's teachings imply a faith in that person as well? i think it does. so by faith in jesus's teachings, aren't you also having faith in jesus. and isn't having faith in jesus the way to heaven? |
death to false metal. |
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guitfiddler
Chatterbox
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 06:26:02 AM
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"I was told that to try and understand what God is thinking is like an ant trying to understand what we think. So I went to the backyard, and started watching the ants. I watched for days. I couldn't tell which one's were good ants, which one's were bad, which one's were straight, gay or otherwise. They were just ants. Fumbling around and doing chores. Even if they were trying to speak to me, I am far to large to hear their little voices. So I started to smite them. I smited them with a blow torch, a magnifying glass, and a shovel. It got me thinking... Maybe we should just live our lives the way that we want to and not worry about God standing behind us with a shovel."
- Dewey from Malcolm in the Middle. (truest words ever spoken) |
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Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 11:11:31 AM
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My beliefs stem from a whole spectrum of religions, a lot of Buddhism, but to me it is just dumb to think that God hates anything. God, for most, created everything out of 'love', it is ridiculous to think he hates anything he created.
There is a huge philosophical problem of freewill that can't be solved by humankind. I can't help but think God gave us some room to breathe and all the greed and envy in the world spawned all this HATE. God certainly didn't intend for it, and I am sure that our time in history will see the endgame to the morass of hatred we've birthed for ourselves.
The thought of sexually engaging with another man is physically repulsive to me, just as a gay guy sexually engaging with a woman is physically repellent to a homosexual. This is no need to hate.
Honestly, I believe homosexuality is a natural occurence to slow down a dangerously high population curve. These men and women love each other, so who really cares? They can't even physically procreate with each other, and they still stay with each other! That's more than we can say about most hetero-couples this day in age.
It's all bullshit. All you need is love. |
http://db.etree.org/hopefulrollingwaves/ < My Trading List |
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peewee_zz
Chatterbox
157 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 11:21:00 AM
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Muskrat is the only one bothering to use scripture. I don't specifically agree with what he's using it to say, but in a discussion about the nature of God nobody else is using scripture...
Granted Muskrat likely found an internet concordance and clicked "king james" and then "NIV" but it's effort at least.
My favorite one is this last one about mixing religions. In order to find out the nature of God you ask Vishnu? I'd normally prefer not to take a shot at your religion but I personally don't ask Vishnu, Buhda or Bearclaw the Rain Maker for information on the Judeo/Christian God. |
"That's your true fan base. Everybody else will love you and leave you like an epileptic at a laser light show." -- Me |
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Arthen
Alien Abductee
USA
4845 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 2:17:22 PM
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| You don't even consult Marduk, son of Ea, slayer of Tiamat?! |
Steve Hackett: "I'm my own opening act, you see."
Tim (before "Faceoff"): "Peace, love....and SEX!"
cbenc41@hotmail.com |
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peewee_zz
Chatterbox
157 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 4:51:59 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Arthen
You don't even consult Marduk, son of Ea, slayer of Tiamat?!
Absolom is my Favorite Bible Character. He was one of the many sons of David who tried to over throw him. The weird part is that when he was defeated his head got caught in a tree and they stabbed 7 spears through his torso before he died. |
"That's your true fan base. Everybody else will love you and leave you like an epileptic at a laser light show." -- Me |
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guitfiddler
Chatterbox
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 8:16:29 PM
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| I worship at the church of beer, food and sex (not in that order) |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 8:59:26 PM
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ea was a son of a bitch. he lied to adapa about eating of the bread of life and drinking the water of life. he told him it was the bread and water of death. he had to know that they don't offer bread and water of death there. in the underworld, yes. yeah, adapa should have known, but even so.
also, he killed his father apsu, and though apsu planned to kill his children, ea made the first move. why didn't he kill mummu, though?
also, my arguments use the scriptures. read it again. it's tricky because there's no numbers. but if you don't reckonize the references (destroying cities like sodom) and the quotes as from the bible, you don't really belong in this argument, because i'm using least obscure references possible. i could throw out any number of super-obscure references, but why? just to prove how smart i am? |
death to false metal. |
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guitfiddler
Chatterbox
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 9:30:40 PM
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| I know I haven't been on this board too long but... When did Dan become a bible scholar? |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 10:24:00 PM
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| i'm not. |
death to false metal. |
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guitfiddler
Chatterbox
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 10:51:50 PM
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| You seem to be very knowledgeable on the subject. Are you a believer? If so, I have some questions. I meet a lot of believers and when I inquire about why they believe what they believe, they get defensive. I assume it is because they are not too educated about what they "believe." I would love to hear it from an intelligent person like yourself. |
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peewee_zz
Chatterbox
157 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 11:14:14 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dan p.
i'm not.
YES YOU ARE!
Bless you Father Dan.
I'm not sure who guitfiddler is refering to, hopefully not me. I'm a diehard christian whose been "too busy" to go to church for the past few months so I'm on a low point in my christian faith. I just don't think that I'm the one that's best to ask for ministry when I'm having trouble with my own faith.
As far as people getting defensive, there's a call to be able to explain your religion. I can't remember the scripture stating this but I wish I could. Many people consider this an opening to get defensive. As a christian, I've experienced a lot of people looking down on me because obviously all intelligent people don't beleive in such cave man thoughts. It's just a trained response for many people to get defensive instead of ministering as they are really called to do.
Your best bet to get a real answer is to ask clergy or pastors or church elders. They tend to be more safe in their own faith enough to be able to minister effectively as compared to just another christian.
I believe because I've seen in my own life and others how powerful of an effect you get by reading and understanding the Proverbs of Solomon. There's always a way to improve yourself in the proverbs and in turn it helps others. I'm also a retched sinner that needs a good blood shower badly. You're not fully clean until your christ-fully-clean. |
"That's your true fan base. Everybody else will love you and leave you like an epileptic at a laser light show." -- Me |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2006 : 12:56:31 AM
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but believer or not, it doesn't matter. you have know a religion before you denounce it. rejecting a religion without knowledge if it is the same as accepting a religion without knowledge of it. it's spiritually and intellectually lazy.
i am not a believer. i was once, though. the details are too tedious to get into. what would be relevent here is the difference between god and church and how you can follow one and not the other, "the logical problem of good and evil," and different versions of the bible, different interpretations, unincluded books, that sort of thing. also, i was roman catholic and i do, and always have, utterly reject the pope's infallibility. my distance from the church is simply lack of trust in the infrastructure; the artifical, manmade parts. also, i can't reconcile the difference between this supposed god's benevolence and the people he's apparently abandoned. this may be at the core of my disbelief: i would be more comfortable if there was no god. because if there is, and such misery beyond belief exists still, then this god has either gone mad, or has tossed us aside. the idea of a supreme being that's crazy is unsettling, but moreso the idea that maybe this god created a universe and threw it all away.
i don't pretend to know everthing about christianity. i know my scripture relatively well, in addition to the history of those writings culturally and linguistically. i don't know how intelligent any of this is, but there. that's pretty much my take. also, some of the finer points of mortality don't line up with the church's. i think that their stance on gays, for one thing, aren't in line with their scripture. yes, the old testament says being gay is wrong. but who wrote that? the jews. how many jews you do see hollering about homosexuals destroying america? not a whole lot. and the book, leviticus, is old testament and part of their faith, too. besides, there's a lot of things in there that are abominations that are just too absurd to be any use. when was the last time you burned a sacrifice to your god? the last time you dealt in slavery? |
death to false metal. |
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guitfiddler
Chatterbox
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2006 : 02:38:25 AM
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quote:
you have know a religion before you denounce it. rejecting a religion without knowledge if it is the same as accepting a religion without knowledge of it. it's spiritually and intellectually lazy.
I agree totally, that was not my intention. In fact, I could not have put it better myself. |
"A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do." -Bob Dylan
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peewee_zz
Chatterbox
157 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2006 : 08:00:25 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by dan p.
but believer or not, it doesn't matter. you have know a religion before you denounce it. rejecting a religion without knowledge if it is the same as accepting a religion without knowledge of it. it's spiritually and intellectually lazy.
i am not a believer. i was once, though. the details are too tedious to get into. what would be relevent here is the difference between god and church and how you can follow one and not the other, "the logical problem of good and evil," and different versions of the bible, different interpretations, unincluded books, that sort of thing. also, i was roman catholic and i do, and always have, utterly reject the pope's infallibility. my distance from the church is simply lack of trust in the infrastructure; the artifical, manmade parts. also, i can't reconcile the difference between this supposed god's benevolence and the people he's apparently abandoned. this may be at the core of my disbelief: i would be more comfortable if there was no god. because if there is, and such misery beyond belief exists still, then this god has either gone mad, or has tossed us aside. the idea of a supreme being that's crazy is unsettling, but moreso the idea that maybe this god created a universe and threw it all away.
i don't pretend to know everthing about christianity. i know my scripture relatively well, in addition to the history of those writings culturally and linguistically. i don't know how intelligent any of this is, but there. that's pretty much my take. also, some of the finer points of mortality don't line up with the church's. i think that their stance on gays, for one thing, aren't in line with their scripture. yes, the old testament says being gay is wrong. but who wrote that? the jews. how many jews you do see hollering about homosexuals destroying america? not a whole lot. and the book, leviticus, is old testament and part of their faith, too. besides, there's a lot of things in there that are abominations that are just too absurd to be any use. when was the last time you burned a sacrifice to your god? the last time you dealt in slavery?
This time I do intend to insult someones religion. I personally believe that being Roman-Catholic is a character flaw and that it's very possible to be Catholic without being Christian. One thing that I point out is many many Catholics think that living together and especially sleeping together is the way it's supposed to be before marriage. They don't believe this simply because they are catholic, they are just in a religion that refuses to denounce it. I could get into dogma after that but that's basically how I ended a conversation with a teenager who thought that simply being a Catholic was being an active christian.
One thing to notice is that Roman Catholics follow way too many practices of the tabenacle and old testimant temple worship. For instance they burn insence believing it will carry their prayers to heaven when Jesus calls us to pray through him. I'm not going to get into the idolatry towards "saints."
I'm not saying catholics are destined for hell or that they're illegitimate. I'm saying that if you have frustrations towards christianity, make sure it's not just a problem with catholosism.
I'm Church of Christer. I know everyone's going to think I'm a cultist but we're actually a very traditional church, the main difference is that we don't have an alter nor do we sing along to music like many other churches believe in. These things are not hell worthy offenses but little differences merely cause us to adapt, not quit. I'm not saying you're a quitter or that you've lost your salt now burn baby burn! I'm just hoping that you have explored other interpretations of the Bible.
One "denomination" that bothers me is "non-denominational." The first few I experienced were very much aligned with Church of Christ because we don't have rivalries like catholics and prodestants might (although i have a sharp word for catholics obviously). My wife came from a non-denominational church in a much larger city and the way she describes it it's like a telethon. Every week on thursday they have a normal sunday service an then get a christian pop band to play and once in a while have demon exorcists or people to speek in tounges as a special guest. To me that's a little weird and off the cuff so I just stick with my small town cult.. i mean Church of Christ. Now I do have some disagreements with this churches teachings, but nobody was called to follow every letter of the law, which is what created the bruised and bleeding pharasees. So I can have my minor disagreements. There's a family in my church that goes so far as believing in the baptism that can atone for the sins of dead family members. To me that's extreme but we don't run them out. |
"That's your true fan base. Everybody else will love you and leave you like an epileptic at a laser light show." -- Me |
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Arthen
Alien Abductee
USA
4845 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2006 : 11:26:40 AM
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I love gospel music. It's what I was listening to when I got a speeding ticket two years ago.
I used to be religious, but not anymore. I used to go to church, not anymore. I like to think that I'm spiritual, and not necessarily religious. But that's me. If I was going to be someone of organized religion again, I'd consider the methodists, they're probably one of the nicest groups of Christians I've ever heard about. |
Steve Hackett: "I'm my own opening act, you see."
Tim (before "Faceoff"): "Peace, love....and SEX!"
cbenc41@hotmail.com |
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peewee_zz
Chatterbox
157 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2006 : 11:52:25 AM
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That's funny because I was going to put in a plug to the methodists and ran out of time while writing.
There's some things I disagree with but most of the things I've a problem with the Catholics doing the methodists do the opposite. |
"That's your true fan base. Everybody else will love you and leave you like an epileptic at a laser light show." -- Me |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2006 : 1:36:13 PM
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| it's not just catholicism i split from. it's all of it. i just can't do it. maybe there's a god. maybe not. i don't know. if there isn't that's good, if there is, i'm not really interested in having anything to do with it. |
death to false metal. |
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CosmicHomesickAlien
Is Anybody Here?
USA
31 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2006 : 11:33:57 PM
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I'm sorry to hear that the whole god thing doesn't interest you, hopefully you have found something else greater than yourself to look to instead. If not i wish you the best of luck in finding something because believing in nothing sounds pretty empty. I hate to sound like some religous wako since i haven't even been to church since i was about 7 years old and i really don't even remeber what happens when you go, hell i don't even remeber reading the bible. What i do believe is that there is some kind of larger force at work weather you call him or her Buddah, Ala, or God it doesn't really matter. Personally i know that there were times in my life that something helped me and i can't explain what it was or why i was the one getting the help it's not like i asked for it, but i got it anyway.
As for the whole god's hatred thing, apparently the guy is a psycho and really has no grip on any knd of reality and while he might think he is preaching the right thing he is most deffinately terribly mistaken. Instead of just wiping them out though i would much rather like to think that they will be dealt with at a later date by someone who can really do the job right. |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2006 : 11:36:27 PM
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it doesn't feel empty. it feels good. if i believed in a god, i've have to assume he stopped caring, if he ever did, and that would make me feel empty. i also like to think that when i get through something difficult, it was because i was strong enough to get through it, with what people helped me.
the way i look at is that, anyone who wants to wipe these people out is free to do so. me? haven't you noticed that people who deserve just tend to not get it? why are you waiting for someone, or something to come along and make it better? i don't think he's coming. where is this god for the people, deceased and surviving friends and family, who have to deal with these assholes? and maybe there is an afterlife where these guys will get what they have coming to them. but you know what? i don't want to wait anymore. |
death to false metal. |
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CosmicHomesickAlien
Is Anybody Here?
USA
31 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2006 : 9:02:04 PM
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Sorry if i was preaching, because i would hate to think of myslef as having anything to do with any kind of religion at this point in my life because i don't agree with organized religion at all i think it's fake and just as commercialized as mcdonalds. I do however consider myself to be very spiritual. No i don't have a shrine setup or anything of that nature, i just believe what more can i say don't really think this is the place to go into a dissortation about it.
I am not waiting for something to be done about these people, or for someone to help me through my life. I know it will be taken care of becasue of how much hate they seem to have, and all it seems like you are doing is hating right back, giving them attention which they do not deserve to get. To top it all the attention they are getting is mostly negative which is probably how they would like people to feel(scared and angry) kind of like the puritans did. I don't see the need to get my blood boiling over moronic rednecks who don't understand why people are upset when there sons or daughters are dead for no good reason at all, it's not worth the stress and the anger it would cause me. I'm sorry to say it but these people can and will keep doing this weather you try to stop or not. Unfortunately the harder you try to stop them the worse it will get. You can't just kill them either because how much better does that make you? I doesn't make you any better it puts you right on their level maybe even lower. I know it sucks big fat donkey dick but what can you do? |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2006 : 9:46:09 PM
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| in my eyes it doesn't make me worse. when you have cancer, you don't destroy it for fear of becoming like cancer. you kill it. same thing here. you could say that killing someone i don't agree with is the same as them killing a gay because they don't agree with, and in your eyes you're right. morals are relative. my beliefs say they should come down with a bad case of dead, fast, and in my eyes, i'm right. and for my deeds, it's my eyes that matter, no one else's. except maybe the law's, because i'd have to deal with that. |
death to false metal. |
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CosmicHomesickAlien
Is Anybody Here?
USA
31 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2006 : 12:15:52 AM
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Ok i don't really get the limk between killing cancer and killing people, and where did the gay thing come from.
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Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
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peewee_zz
Chatterbox
157 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2006 : 12:40:00 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dan p.
in my eyes it doesn't make me worse. when you have cancer, you don't destroy it for fear of becoming like cancer. you kill it. same thing here. you could say that killing someone i don't agree with is the same as them killing a gay because they don't agree with, and in your eyes you're right. morals are relative. my beliefs say they should come down with a bad case of dead, fast, and in my eyes, i'm right. and for my deeds, it's my eyes that matter, no one else's. except maybe the law's, because i'd have to deal with that.
Man#1: You know if they only had Gay Marriage in the 80's there wouldn't be so much of a problem with Aids.
Man#2: There'd be no AIDS if sodomy were punishable by death
Man#1: But the death penalty doesn't work...
Man#2: Yes it does. There were no homosexuals when sodomy was punishable by death.
The only good defense to this I've ever heard was:
Yeah, it works real well in Iran. They string them up real quick. |
"That's your true fan base. Everybody else will love you and leave you like an epileptic at a laser light show." -- Me |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2006 : 2:11:51 PM
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um. . .there have been gays for a long, long time. it's been documented. hundreds and hundreds of years. to say "there wouldn't be gays if x" is to say "i don't know anything." also, aids didn't "start" with gays. spontanous generation doesn't exist. aids didn't come to be wasn't because two dudes were having sex. you know what's really ironic about that statement? it's that kind of thinking that allows for the spread of aids. no one gave a fuck about it at first because it was just the blacks and the fags, but once rich white people started getting, it become an issue. when sodomy was punishable by death, gay people still had sex. they just didn't get caught. why would you assume that because it's not out in the open, it isn't real? there's this place and time that exists solely in the minds of republicans, where everything was wholesome and there was no deviations, no gays, no discontent, and family values were important. guess what? that was never the case. there has always been all of those things. there is no "the way it used to be." it's an imagination. just because you didn't hear about it doesn't mean it isn't real.
and in all honesty, if god doesn't like gays, that's just too fucking bad, because he created them.
my link between killing cancer and these people is simple. cancer is bad for the body. these people are bad for everyone. they're a cancer. the more i thought about it, though, the more i realized a big objection of mine was they think they're acting on god's hate, or their own. by picketing. it's as if they have no conception of hatred and what it is to act on it. they're just pussies with signs who think they're doing something besides pissing everyone off, and making a miserable experience for grieving people worse. grief like that is private. they can't even do hate right. |
death to false metal. |
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peewee_zz
Chatterbox
157 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2006 : 2:56:28 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dan p.
um. . .there have been gays for a long, long time. it's been documented. hundreds and hundreds of years. to say "there wouldn't be gays if x" is to say "i don't know anything." also, aids didn't "start" with gays. spontanous generation doesn't exist. aids didn't come to be wasn't because two dudes were having sex. you know what's really ironic about that statement? it's that kind of thinking that allows for the spread of aids. no one gave a fuck about it at first because it was just the blacks and the fags, but once rich white people started getting, it become an issue. when sodomy was punishable by death, gay people still had sex. they just didn't get caught. why would you assume that because it's not out in the open, it isn't real? there's this place and time that exists solely in the minds of republicans, where everything was wholesome and there was no deviations, no gays, no discontent, and family values were important. guess what? that was never the case. there has always been all of those things. there is no "the way it used to be." it's an imagination. just because you didn't hear about it doesn't mean it isn't real.
and in all honesty, if god doesn't like gays, that's just too fucking bad, because he created them.
my link between killing cancer and these people is simple. cancer is bad for the body. these people are bad for everyone. they're a cancer. the more i thought about it, though, the more i realized a big objection of mine was they think they're acting on god's hate, or their own. by picketing. it's as if they have no conception of hatred and what it is to act on it. they're just pussies with signs who think they're doing something besides pissing everyone off, and making a miserable experience for grieving people worse. grief like that is private. they can't even do hate right.
Once again I only said it because most people find it funny
Along the lines of..
Man#1: I always forget which Lennon is which
Man#2: Simple. Vladamir was the leader of Russia but John was more of a communist. |
"That's your true fan base. Everybody else will love you and leave you like an epileptic at a laser light show." -- Me |
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guitfiddler
Chatterbox
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2006 : 10:54:54 PM
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quote:
and in all honesty, if god doesn't like gays, that's just too fucking bad, because he created them.
Amen. If God is infallible and everything is a part of "God's plan" like christians tend to believe, how can you justify trying to change it? How can you judge anyone's actions or thoughts? This is a big contradiction that will keep me away from christianity for ever. I do not care what denomination. |
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CosmicHomesickAlien
Is Anybody Here?
USA
31 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2006 : 08:13:54 AM
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| thanks for the history lesson and the update, what can i say except "duh", and brain farts happen. It still doesn't change my beliefs, but thats the beautful thing about being able to have an opinion. |
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peewee_zz
Chatterbox
157 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2006 : 09:48:25 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by guitfiddler
quote:
and in all honesty, if god doesn't like gays, that's just too fucking bad, because he created them.
Amen. If God is infallible and everything is a part of "God's plan" like christians tend to believe, how can you justify trying to change it? How can you judge anyone's actions or thoughts? This is a big contradiction that will keep me away from christianity for ever. I do not care what denomination.
In the same respect, what gives you the right to judge God?
SMACK DOWN! One for the home team! |
"That's your true fan base. Everybody else will love you and leave you like an epileptic at a laser light show." -- Me |
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guitfiddler
Chatterbox
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2006 : 8:26:53 PM
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| haha, I'm happy that you're happy. The truth is that I do not believe in God. I did not judge God, nor do I mean to judge or make fun of christians. I was once one of you. I'm just pointing out contradictions. It is a habbit of mine. In a perfect world, everyone's mind would be open and stomachs would be full. As it is, people are so affraid of the horror stories of "hell" that they will not even consider an alternative way of thinking. I am not arrogant enough to try to change that. I just want to throw out some thoughts that might get you thinking about it. Expect more to come. |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2006 : 11:28:11 PM
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| i think i might just be arrogant enough to pass judgement on god. let me check. . .yup. i here by pass a judgement on god, and i say that if he doesn't like something, he shouldn't have created it. |
death to false metal. |
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guitfiddler
Chatterbox
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2006 : 11:45:42 PM
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quote:
i think i might just be arrogant enough to pass judgement on god. let me check. . .yup. i here by pass a judgement on god, and i say that if he doesn't like something, he shouldn't have created it.
I knew someone would say it, I figured it would be you. Some see arrogance as a flaw. I find it to be delightfully entertaining. |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2006 : 11:51:47 PM
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| i don't mind arrogance if it's justified. conductors tend to have arrogance, but you know what? they know their shit better than me, so they can have at it. |
death to false metal. |
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CosmicHomesickAlien
Is Anybody Here?
USA
31 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2006 : 4:32:22 PM
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ok since i addmited to being an idiot i guess i can rejoin the conversation.
When was the press conference held with god to find out what he likes and dislikes? Just because the bible says that god doesn't like gays doesn't make it he truth afterall who can say for certain that the bible is fact, it's just accepted to be so. |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2006 : 9:06:03 PM
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| those who call themselves christian accept the bible as truth. it varies in degree. there are those who feel the bible, and the stories therein are largely metaphorical, and not to be taken all that literally. on the other end of that spectrum, there are people who believe that every word in the bible is exactly right, no interpretation, no error, morally, religiously, or historically. |
death to false metal. |
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guitfiddler
Chatterbox
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2006 : 10:37:45 PM
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An example of what Dan said, and another contradiction that I love to point out is the Bible says that the earth was created in 7 days and the earth is 10,000 years old (video) http://www.bible.ca/tracks/patton-biblical-age-earth.ram
However, there is Scientific evidence that the earth is more like 4.5 billion years old. http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-age-of-earth.html
If you point this contradiction out to Christians, you get one of two answers: The time frame is relative, or science is the devil. We will dismiss that second group as insane. But the first one touches on the point that Dan made. I have been told that the whole "seven days" that God created the world is relative to God's eternal clock. If you live for eternity, how long is a day? Decades? Centuries? Who knows. This explination makes sense until these same people start telling me that god is watching, follow his rules, pray to him for answers. On god's clock, my life is not even a second. Who am I praying to?
So although accepting the bible as metaphorical stories may make the Bible make more sense, it is no reason to live your life by it. It is just a book.
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peewee_zz
Chatterbox
157 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2006 : 1:00:34 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by guitfiddler
An example of what Dan said, and another contradiction that I love to point out is the Bible says that the earth was created in 7 days and the earth is 10,000 years old (video) http://www.bible.ca/tracks/patton-biblical-age-earth.ram
However, there is Scientific evidence that the earth is more like 4.5 billion years old. http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-age-of-earth.html
If you point this contradiction out to Christians, you get one of two answers: The time frame is relative, or science is the devil. We will dismiss that second group as insane. But the first one touches on the point that Dan made. I have been told that the whole "seven days" that God created the world is relative to God's eternal clock. If you live for eternity, how long is a day? Decades? Centuries? Who knows. This explination makes sense until these same people start telling me that god is watching, follow his rules, pray to him for answers. On god's clock, my life is not even a second. Who am I praying to?
So although accepting the bible as metaphorical stories may make the Bible make more sense, it is no reason to live your life by it. It is just a book.
To kill 2 birds with one stone. Well to stone 2 heathens at once. The bible is the most accuratlely kept document in history for the longest time. It still remains that way. Scrolls 500 years apart are not even off by a single letter. There are certain variations after a certain point but the modern bible points out all of these contridictions one being in matthew, chapeter 9 i think about the prostitute that was almost stoned but jesus stoped it.
To talk about the age of the earth, the bible does not boast an actual date of creation. Most christians that I know think from 4,000 to 6,000 years old based on the lineage. If you're going to quate a scientific number don't say "like 4.5" billion. Qoute a text book. In fact qoute several text books each from a different decade. Notice how the age keeps changing? That's because the theory of evolution keeps "evolving." I'm 21 and I've lived through atleast 3 major revisions of the oficial theory. The most notable being the abandonment of the word "mutations" and constant adaptation of new words to describe differences at birth. (this mostly because of the Mega-Mutation theory that a woodpecker developed a sharp beak and a hard skull able to withstand the blunt force trauma at the same time.)
Another thing to observe is the ability of major seizmic and other natural events causing changes in the earth which are noted in the bible. There's a convincing book published about the grand canyon that explains how certain layers of rock that are otherwise impossible to be where they are came about. This book is christian themed and has been banned from grand canyon national park book sales. (talk about your conspiracies)
There's actually 2 groups that I've briefly been a part of that you need to look into to get an objective view on the issue. One is the ICC, International Creationist Conferance, and the CSF, Christian Science Fellowship. There's suprisingly a lot of science news that's ignored because it contridicts evolution. One of which is a story where they claim they found Noahs ark. I'm pretty sure this was summer 2003. Good luck finding an article about it in any major news papers. (once again talk about conspiracies) |
"That's your true fan base. Everybody else will love you and leave you like an epileptic at a laser light show." -- Me |
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Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
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peewee_zz
Chatterbox
157 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2006 : 2:20:41 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Hopeful Rolling Waves
The tragedy here is that you found our board. Keep your diluted facts to yourself, numbnuts.
I don't remember someone mentioning a tragedy for you to redirect towards me, but whatever; and I don't understand where my facts are diluted, or where I even used facts. I mean if you want to prove that my facts are diluted then go right ahead, point them out and point out why they are wrong.
If you want to single me out and call me names on all of my posts just because I'm christian then keep that up too because nobody will call you on it.
I just don't understand why creating honest debate instead of bad jokes for once makes me diluted. I've refrained from arguing A LOT on this board. I've typed out entire arguments and just closed the browser and not posted for the sake of censoring myself. But go right ahead and attack me. It'll be great for your self esteem or whatever reason it is you choose to attack me.
BTW name calling is awesome tard wagon! |
"That's your true fan base. Everybody else will love you and leave you like an epileptic at a laser light show." -- Me |
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Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2006 : 2:52:47 PM
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I don't give a shit if you're a Christian or not, but your goofy online demeanor here keeps you from being serious at all, especially with that shit you pulled before in starting a "Political Arguement [sic]" thread, and then going back and editing your original post to make it goofy after you got dismantled.
You are just a dick, and I don't think too many people in here would disagree. Here's a wiseass comment of yours, asshole, I don't quite remember saying anything about Vishnu.
"My favorite one is this last one about mixing religions. In order to find out the nature of God you ask Vishnu? I'd normally prefer not to take a shot at your religion but I personally don't ask Vishnu, Buhda or Bearclaw the Rain Maker for information on the Judeo/Christian God."
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http://db.etree.org/hopefulrollingwaves/ < My Trading List |
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peewee_zz
Chatterbox
157 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2006 : 4:56:53 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Hopeful Rolling Waves
I don't give a shit if you're a Christian or not, but your goofy online demeanor here keeps you from being serious at all, especially with that shit you pulled before in starting a "Political Arguement [sic]" thread, and then going back and editing your original post to make it goofy after you got dismantled.
You are just a dick, and I don't think too many people in here would disagree. Here's a wiseass comment of yours, asshole, I don't quite remember saying anything about Vishnu.
"My favorite one is this last one about mixing religions. In order to find out the nature of God you ask Vishnu? I'd normally prefer not to take a shot at your religion but I personally don't ask Vishnu, Buhda or Bearclaw the Rain Maker for information on the Judeo/Christian God."
I had edited it about 4 times before making it goofy. I had always intedended it to be a suggestion. I didn't try to pull anything. If anyone is trying to be a moderator it's you for trying to shut me down every chance you get.
I'm not the one trying to be the thought police.
And about the vishnu comment, you guys are unmercifully ripping on christians as a whole for what 1 or 2 people may have said. I don't care, but in order for any kind of tolerance or respect to work YOU have to extend it to ME also. This is not a one sided thing so sorry if I take a shot back during a debate. |
"That's your true fan base. Everybody else will love you and leave you like an epileptic at a laser light show." -- Me |
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Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2006 : 8:27:10 PM
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There is no debate here.
If you hate ANYONE, you are not valuable to the human race.
For now on, I'll not respond to any of your posts, as it wouldn't be constructive. |
http://db.etree.org/hopefulrollingwaves/ < My Trading List |
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peewee_zz
Chatterbox
157 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2006 : 11:15:49 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Hopeful Rolling Waves
There is no debate here.
If you hate ANYONE, you are not valuable to the human race.
For now on, I'll not respond to any of your posts, as it wouldn't be constructive.
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"That's your true fan base. Everybody else will love you and leave you like an epileptic at a laser light show." -- Me |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2006 : 11:22:02 AM
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i disagree. everyone hates someone, or someones. everyone. show me a person who says "i don't hate anyone" and i'll show you a goddamn liar. while i agree that hating any specific religion, race, ethnicity, gender, sexuality, ect., is silly, lazy, and futile, i have to say that hatred of a person, or in the case of this article, persons, less condemnable. the reason why i'm not classifying this group in the article as a "religious" group, is because a) what they're doing isn't religion. it's batshit fucking loco crazy. and b) they're just a few members of a sect of a religion. now if i were to say this why i hate baptists, or christians, that'd just be silly. but if you can sit there with a straight face and tell me that you don't hate anyone at all, either you're conciously lying to me or unconciously lying to yourself.
and, about the rest of it, look. the earth is billions of years old. science determined that long ago. i don't have to give you a source for that for the same reason i don't have to give you a source when i say 1+1=2. yeah, the number keeps changing, but scientists have been keeping above 6,000 years. why? because shit existed. we have imperical evidence. you cannot tell us that anything before 4,000 bc is just fake and made up. well you can, if you hate reason and reality. |
death to false metal. |
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Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2006 : 1:24:34 PM
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I am sorry you feel that way Dan.
HATE is not human emotion. It is a combination of fear, ignorance, and sometimes jealousy and envy. HATE doesn't stand alone as anything.
No, I don't feel hate towards anything. So I guess I'm a fucking liar, but I'd rather unconciously lie to myself about it rather than waste my lifeforce hating things. |
http://db.etree.org/hopefulrollingwaves/ < My Trading List |
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Arthen
Alien Abductee
USA
4845 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2006 : 2:40:00 PM
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I hate to have to do it, but here's a quote...(Note, I don't like the film this quote came from.)
"Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering."
As for Peter Gabriel, fear's the mother of violence. |
Steve Hackett: "I'm my own opening act, you see."
Tim (before "Faceoff"): "Peace, love....and SEX!"
cbenc41@hotmail.com |
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peewee_zz
Chatterbox
157 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2006 : 3:01:54 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Hopeful Rolling Waves
I am sorry you feel that way Dan.
HATE is not human emotion. It is a combination of fear, ignorance, and sometimes jealousy and envy. HATE doesn't stand alone as anything.
No, I don't feel hate towards anything. So I guess I'm a fucking liar, but I'd rather unconciously lie to myself about it rather than waste my lifeforce hating things.
I challenge you to find a professional that agrees with you. |
"That's your true fan base. Everybody else will love you and leave you like an epileptic at a laser light show." -- Me |
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Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2006 : 3:37:34 PM
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For someone that doesn't particularly find correlations between science and religion, you sure make some weird challenges.
I think what Arthen said there kinda solidifies what I said.
Hate is a culmination of extreme feelings of fear and ignorance. You can't emote hate. Fear, yes. Anger, yes. Hate...doesn't seem to work. |
http://db.etree.org/hopefulrollingwaves/ < My Trading List |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2006 : 12:49:34 AM
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| the hate that is ignorant and fearful is the hate of racists, homophobes, and their abusrd ilk. that's not the hate i'm thinking of. hate like that isn't valid as an emotion or thought. but you can hate someone for the things they may do, to you or to others. you may think that's just anger. i split hairs. anger is hot. hate is cold. |
death to false metal. |
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CosmicHomesickAlien
Is Anybody Here?
USA
31 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2006 : 11:43:33 AM
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| as far as i can tell the only people who have the capcity to truely hate are racists and homophobes. This is why i don not waste my time on giving these people the attention the crave so badly because they hate, and they don't even understand why they hate gays, blacks, jews, chinese,or whatever they say they are against because they are to ignorant to acutally figure that out. They are just told to hate so they do and they shall be rightly recieved when they go before their god and are stuck in hell,or whatever you watn to call it, for all the hatred they brought to their fellow men and women. |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2006 : 2:55:04 PM
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| but if god also hates gays, how can he judge negatively men who do the same thing? |
death to false metal. |
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guitfiddler
Chatterbox
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2006 : 10:25:45 PM
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Well peewee, I put references in the first time, but here is a better one.
http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/geotime/age.html
A side note, I think homosexuality is mother nature's defense against over population. I think that someone mentioned this before, but I didn't see it. If people live longer, have children at an older age, and live lifestyles that consume their surroundings, how does the Earth fight back? More homosexuality. You can see the same pattern in mice and monkeys. Here is a reference for that because I know peewee will pitch a fit if I do not back up my statements (but at least I won't change them if I'm wrong) The study on mice and monkeys I found in a book called "Shadows of Forgotten Ancestors" by Sagan. |
"A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do." -Bob Dylan
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2006 : 6:08:56 PM
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| now there's an interesting take it. |
death to false metal. |
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Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2006 : 1:50:00 PM
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| I believe I mentioned the homosexuality/poulation reference in my first post on here, and I firmly believe that idea, so why hate a naturally stablizing phenomenon. Ying and yang, bitches. |
http://db.etree.org/hopefulrollingwaves/ < My Trading List |
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guitfiddler
Chatterbox
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2006 : 9:04:56 PM
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quote:
Ying and yang, bitches.
LOL I want to get that tattooed on my ass! |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2006 : 01:25:14 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Hopeful Rolling Waves
Ying and yang, bitches.
that, i believe, is the wisdom of ages, as set for by many of the great sages. ver batim, too. |
death to false metal. |
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kill these people.
