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Arthen
Alien Abductee
USA
4845 Posts |
 Posted - 02/18/2006 : 8:00:03 PM
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| What do you all think about the protests/riots over the now infamous Danish cartoons? Personally, I'm thinking the Muslim world is losing credibility reacting the way they are, especially demanding an apology from the Danish government. It's called freedom of expression and speech people! |
Steve Hackett: "I'm my own opening act, you see."
Tim (before "Faceoff"): "Peace, love....and SEX!"
cbenc41@hotmail.com |
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Fluffy
Administrator
USA
10739 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2006 : 7:39:18 PM
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Muhammad's image subject of art in past
By David R. Sands
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
Feb 08 2006 12:00AM
Lost in the furor over cartoons of the prophet Muhammad is the fact that his likeness has long been portrayed in the collections of some of the world's greatest museums and libraries without exciting alarm or comment.
While rare in the 1,400 years of Islamic art, depictions of Muhammad are found in the collections of such institutions as New York's Metropolitan Museum of Art, the Bibliotheque Nationale de France in Paris and the Edinburgh University library.
Muhammad has been portrayed in the work of revered Muslim artists and of such Western figures as William Blake, Auguste Rodin and Salvador Dali {emdash} as well as the creators of the cable-TV cartoon series "South Park."
None of those depictions aroused the anger seen in reaction to a set of satirical cartoons that appeared in Danish and other European newspapers {emdash} a violent response that continued to roil the Muslim wor! ld yesterday.
Three Afghans were killed and dozens wounded in a firefight with NATO peacekeepers in southern Afghanistan. Demonstrations also took place in Iran, India, Pakistan, Egypt, Nigeria, the Philippines and the Palestinian territories.
In Washington, President Bush called Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen to express "solidarity and support."
Alan A. Godlas, who teaches Islamic studies at the University of Georgia, said Islam has long frowned on depictions of the prophet out of a concern that any images of Muhammad or other religious figures could lead to idolatry and detract from worship of Allah.
But, he said, "The reason these cartoons sparked such a reaction has more to do with the tensions that were already there between the Islamic world and the West, and because in the age of the Internet, what goes on anywhere in the world is heard! and seen everywhere."
Many of t! he best- known Islamic portrayals of Muhammad are miniatures done in the 14th and 15th centuries by mystical Persian artists who argued that their small, imperfect efforts could never be taken for the actual prophet, and thus were not blasphemous.
The famous "Book of the Assumption of Muhammad," thought to have been painted around 1436 in Herat, Afghanistan, shows Muhammad mounted on a human-headed horse being led by the Archangel Gabriel on a tour of Paradise and Hell. The original is in the collection of the French Bibliotheque Nationale.
Even more plentiful are miniatures showing scenes from the life of the prophet with his face and hands covered or his features purposely obscured.
"Nothing in the Koran is as categorical as the condemnation of imagery in the Hebrew Bible" found in Exodus and Deuteronomy, said French art scholar Alexandre Papadopoulo in his massive 1979 survey, "Islam and Musl! im Art."
But Islamic art scholars say the prohibition against portraying Muhammad has hardened over the centuries, based on sayings attributed to the prophet, on the absence of figurative religious art in the earliest mosques and on interpretations by Muslim theologians.
"One should not represent any religious image because it would ridicule the figure of God, and it would be idolatrous to depict the faces of the prophets and saints of Islam, particularly in mosques, where they ran the risk of becoming objects of veneration or prayer," Mr. Papadopoulo wrote.
Mr. Godlas compared the Islamic opposition to portraying Muhammad to the reaction of many Protestant churches against the religious imagery and the worship of saints in the Catholic Church.
The great divide in Islam between Shi'ite and Sunni interpretations is reflected in attitudes toward art, said to! Islamic scholar Ibrahim Moussawi in Beirut.
! ; & nbsp;"For the most part, Shi'ite Islam has no problem portraying the prophet Muhammad in a respectful manner," he said. "Much Shi'ite art depicts the revered Imams Hussein, Ali and others."
But, he said, "More conservative strains of Sunni Islam prohibit idolatry in any form, including, in some cases, prohibitions of showing the human form at all."
In Sunni-majority Egypt, television serials recounting the founding days of Islam will not show Muhammad or any of his closest companions.
"The ultimate problem here is that this [Danish] portrayal was a cartoon and was perceived as disrespectful," Mr. Moussawi said.
{bullet}Mitchell Prothero in Beirut contributed to this report.
http://insider.washtimes.com/articles/normal.php?StoryID=20060208-121150-5609r |
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy         
"THE MUSIC BUSINESS IS A CRUEL AND SHALLOW MONEY TRENCH-- A LONG PLASTIC HALLWAY WHERE THIEVES AND PIMPS RUN FREE AND GOOD MEN DIE LIKE DOGS. THERE'S ALSO A NEGATIVE SIDE..." -Hunter S. Thompson |
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SpaceMonkey
Chatterbox
315 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2006 : 7:50:10 PM
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| fuck crazy muslims..sorry |
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muhammus ali
Is Anybody Here?
2 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2006 : 12:29:06 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by SpaceMonkey
fuck crazy muslims..sorry
Now I'm in IB History so I have some idea of what's going on with these "fucking crazy muslims" but I still feel so estranged and puzzled as to why they act the way they do. I mean granted they've been fucked in all different directions...
But I just can't understand why it makes sense for any culture to adhere to the beliefs of a text that was written so many thousand years ago...I mean can't you assume we've moved past a lot of shit between now and then? We talk about this shit with abortion to, shouldn't the rule "people who tell other people how to be Christian (Muslim) aren't real Christians (Muslims)" apply here? I mean we can distance ourselves from the actual implications of the text and still retain an understanding of it's moral or aesthetic values...right? I would argue that 2000 year old value systems are fucked up for any culture, almost as fucked up as getting married. Asking somebody to live with one other person for the rest of their life is an absoloutely fucking crazy thing to ask, even by God's standards. Necessity is the only thing the Western society really values, and we fuck a lot of people with that motive in mind. We've got our dicks so far up Iraq's asshole that even if we turned a complete 360 to face the Darfur problem our dick would still be under our legs superglued to our Vietnam sized problems.
I say the Islams do what the Irish did when the West took over. Accept graciously and drink the rest away...because we are DEFINITELY going to be here for a while...and we are arrogant 60 degree backside mute silver-medalists who talk shit to everybody and there's not a whole lot you can do about it other than curb your disenthusiasm. We're a scary country when we are displeased. |
To the max we climb |
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rubylith
Fluffy-Esque
1915 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2006 : 09:15:50 AM
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these groups are all unintelligent and controlled by intelligence agencies. I bet the same would happen here if a newspaper would publich a cartoon of jesus banging a 4 year old boy.
This is a great thing for the Bush Administration....wow alot of distractions going on...anotehr "terror" attack is on the loom. |
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Arthen
Alien Abductee
USA
4845 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2006 : 11:18:48 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by rubylith
these groups are all unintelligent and controlled by intelligence agencies. I bet the same would happen here if a newspaper would publich a cartoon of jesus banging a 4 year old boy.
This is a great thing for the Bush Administration....wow alot of distractions going on...anotehr "terror" attack is on the loom.
There is no way you would see people killing each other and destroying buildings and cars if someone made a cartoon of Jesus. Christianity and Judeaism are the most mocked global religions, and yet you don't see any reactions like the one you see in the Muslim world.
I don't think it's a great thing for anyone. And as for a terror attack you can "blame" the Danish. |
Steve Hackett: "I'm my own opening act, you see."
Tim (before "Faceoff"): "Peace, love....and SEX!"
cbenc41@hotmail.com |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2006 : 3:13:42 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by rubylith
these groups are all unintelligent and controlled by intelligence agencies. I bet the same would happen here if a newspaper would publich a cartoon of jesus banging a 4 year old boy.
from what impression is that supposed idea derived? |
death to false metal. |
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AGirlNamedPsycho
Try A Little Harder
USA
70 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2006 : 09:29:52 AM
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@ rubylith: Actually, Jesus (and summarily Christians) take their share of flak here in America and nobody's preaching vengeance on near the scope as these Muslims have been. Did anybody see the cover of Rolling Stone with Kayne West as Jesus Christ? Did 14 people get killed over that picture?
I don't think it's an issue of religion, I think it's an issue of environment. For all the times we've chipped away at our own liberties we're still a free enough nation that we can handle an SNL skit featuring Jesus, Ganesh and Mohammad sitting around watching the Super Bowl and talking shit about one another. Meanwhile in countries with extremist Muslim leaders you have newspapers going "Hey remember THIS terrible cartoon the Danish printed? Remember THIS ONE RIGHT HERE, and how MAD we got that one time?? Anyone REMEMBER THAT? Here's another picture in case YOU FORGOT." We did that for awhile in America too; it was almost impossible to turn on the TV without seeing the Twin Towers being attacked. The difference in scope of these two events underlines the great schism between our mentalities. |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2006 : 3:27:04 PM
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a note about kanye west.
doesn't seem to anyone else that he's really trying to cram the whole "intelligent rapper" thing down everyone's throats? what i mean by that is pretty much everything he does is college themed. "college dropout" "late registration" and his thing at the grammies. it's like he's really trying to make sure we remember that he went to college for a little bit, so we can all say "he's smart. did you know he went to college for a while?" others in the industry went to college, too, but they don't make a huge deal about it. i think this is what's happening in people's minds. the parenthesis are things that won't be readily admitted to, or even concious thought at all: kanye west is intelligent (for a rapper.) he went to college and has smart lyrics (i didn't expect a black man to be intelligent or go to college, or write smart lyrics.) did i just accuse a whole bunch of people of racism? yes i did. otherwise, why would anyone care if he went to college? |
death to false metal. |
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Arthen
Alien Abductee
USA
4845 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2006 : 6:47:09 PM
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| I can't stand Kanye West. |
Steve Hackett: "I'm my own opening act, you see."
Tim (before "Faceoff"): "Peace, love....and SEX!"
cbenc41@hotmail.com |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2006 : 9:36:40 PM
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| i don't have any specific objection to him as an artist. unless you consider what i said about him before an objection to him as an artist. |
death to false metal. |
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guitfiddler
Chatterbox
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2006 : 10:40:36 PM
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"If you can't think for yourself, I'll think for you. If you do think for yourself, I will send you to hell"
-God (every religion) |
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Arthen
Alien Abductee
USA
4845 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2006 : 02:40:05 AM
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| I just read an article about Salafism in the New York Times magazine, and holy cow. This group looks for jihads! They believe that democracy is blasphemy and against Allah. I was blown away, really interesting article. I don't know if it's online or I'd post a link. I'm too tired to search for it right now. |
Steve Hackett: "I'm my own opening act, you see."
Tim (before "Faceoff"): "Peace, love....and SEX!"
cbenc41@hotmail.com |
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peewee_zz
Chatterbox
157 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2006 : 11:17:59 AM
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Switching from the Muslims suck arguments and the opposite and even more bigoted arguments that Christians would do the same thing:
The real politcal affects of this have interested me, and not the religions involved. Basically somebody's freedom of speech, or the freedom of the press in this case, is only being challenged when goverment is trying to suppress it. If the man was arrested or fined then that would be a violation. Anyone in any country disagreeing for any reason has absolutly nothing to do with amendments or rights.
That being said what's being ignored is that no matter how many churches were burned and all that crap why should that dictate my opinions? I'm republican (go ahead throw a brick) and that may not offend as many people in America as it does in all of Europe. For the sake of those in Europe should I switch? What if this message offends those in Australia? Is it my responsibility to run this message by a representative of every single country?
The most important thing is that I was completely unaware that it was such a big offence to Muslim's to portay Muhamad. Was I required by law to have researched Islam before anything? Before I create a cartoon, or song, or even type this I should take phylosophy classes on all religions. Although the government is not opressing it, the fundamental point of freedom of religion is that I don't care about yours and you don't care about mine. Everytime someone says Jesus Christ as a curse or swears in the name of Jesus I dislike it, but that's not your responsibility to know that. You cannot impose your laws or religion upon me, especially from halfway around the world!
The cartoons were in bad taste. Everyone has a right to think that, and I personally would not have created them. However I will not even slightly bend in any way because of somebody's religion. Remember the Koran down the toilet in News Week caused the same exact problem, but every single person that I've heard from took the exact opposite position on it.
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"That's your true fan base. Everybody else will love you and leave you like an epileptic at a laser light show." -- Me |
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Arthen
Alien Abductee
USA
4845 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2006 : 1:13:33 PM
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| Man, I haven't seen all of them, but one of the cartoons I saw, was pretty funny. It made me laugh at least. |
Steve Hackett: "I'm my own opening act, you see."
Tim (before "Faceoff"): "Peace, love....and SEX!"
cbenc41@hotmail.com |
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guitfiddler
Chatterbox
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2006 : 8:45:03 PM
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quote:
Everytime someone says Jesus Christ as a curse or swears in the name of Jesus I dislike it, but that's not your responsibility to know that. You cannot impose your laws or religion upon me, especially from halfway around the world!
Wow. A Christian is thinking rationally!! Hold the presses!! Seriously, It is refreshing. Most Christians that I know change the word "impose" to "saving," and suppress free thought. Thank you peewee for restoring my faith in people.
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2006 : 11:56:45 PM
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| i don't know. i only saw the one where the prophet's wearing a bomb. please. it's not funny, it's not original, it's not intelligent, and it isn't saying something that hasn't been said about a billion times. it's just boring. what was funny, however, was that it was reacted to with violence. which is pretty much what the cartoon was saying to begin with. |
death to false metal. |
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guitfiddler
Chatterbox
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2006 : 12:03:11 AM
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quote:
i don't know. i only saw the one where the prophet's wearing a bomb. please. it's not funny, it's not original, it's not intelligent, and it isn't saying something that hasn't been said about a billion times. it's just boring. what was funny, however, was that it was reacted to with violence. which is pretty much what the cartoon was saying to begin with.
AMEN!! |
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No one's brought it up, so...
