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Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
 Posted - 03/05/2005 : 7:05:44 PM
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| You can't really expect to see enlightened musical disscusion on a site that has tabs in it's name. I mean come on most people there probably don't read music or have any conception of tonality. |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2005 : 8:31:59 PM
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| that's what i was going to say, pretty much. |
death to false metal. |
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guitarisPIMP
Yak Addict
Niue
587 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2005 : 9:33:36 PM
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| I hate the ignorant fucks who even sit there and talk about that shit. I wish music theory were taught in school more extensively, maybe the public musical taste would be of higher standards so we wouldn't have millions of people agreeing that SRV is the greatest guitar player to ever exist, or that the Beatles were the greatest band to ever exist. |
my favorite color is go fuck yourself. :D |
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enthuTIMsiast
Alien Abductee
6990 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2005 : 12:43:08 AM
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| I am more stupider for having read that thread. |
Tim Reynolds Downloads
I am not the albatross of love, I am the human ellipsis. I am dot dot dot. - Leo Kottke
I hate beating people over the head with anything. We can all make up our own minds. What we don’t have is enough music. More music please. - Leo Kottke |
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JoeGamo05
Chatterbox
USA
279 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2005 : 09:59:44 AM
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| personally... it's just ignorant people who make that stuff and contribute... honestly who really cares whos better, when it comes to "whos better" it's all about opinion and those who are ignorant will contribute the most. |
When the trees start walking, the ground starts moving, your insane, your insane |
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Arthen
Alien Abductee
USA
4845 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2005 : 5:03:09 PM
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I only read the first page, so maybe they get into it but...
They only focus on the electric guitar. To be the best guitarist I think you need to master the instrument in every form. I'm not a scholar of SRV, but I don't know that I've heard much about him and his acoustic playing. |
Steve Hackett: "I'm my own opening act, you see."
Tim (before "Faceoff"): "Peace, love....and SEX!"
cbenc41@hotmail.com |
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GuitarGuy305
Alien Abductee
USA
2007 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2005 : 8:27:18 PM
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I was wondering if that topic would be mentioned over here at all. As you can see from my post on that thread, I think it's just sad that people over there had not HEARD SRV play, and were asking for people to post a clip, so that they could then say whether or not he was better than Tim. Fucking ridiculous.
Hopeful Rolling Waves did a good job of trying to set those guys straight, but it's useless. They went from which is a better guitarist, to which will be considered a legend, and it "Ain't Tim Reynolds" Who fucking cares. Because we all know that when Tim is 85 years old and it not considered a legend, he'll really lose sleep over that. First off, they all write Tim off as a lifeless shredder, because that is some of what he does with DMB. They have no idea about his solo stuff.
And then the one guy that said he is better than both guitarists, and was most likely making a joke of the whole thing. Then they all have to start asking him to post clips proving that he is better than both.
Most of what I see over there is fucking bullshit. I see Tim dissed on pretty much a daily basis, but it does no good to call people on it, as that thread proves.
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tericee
Alien Abductee
USA
2579 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2005 : 01:47:29 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by enthuTIMsiast
I am more stupider for having read that thread.
Cute... If somebody besides you had written those words, I would have corrected the grammar. |
teri 
Twittering about the DC adventure since Dec '09...
(Micro)Blog * Photo Album
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Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2005 : 09:26:20 AM
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It just kills me to see how rampant ignorance is overall in every community. Especially music; it just shows that people really don't open their minds up to new things, or even look into things before passing judgement.
They're people who you ask if they have heard an album, and if they haven't, instead reply, "I didn't like it." I call it the "too cool disease." |
http://db.etree.org/hopefulrollingwaves/ < My Trading List |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2005 : 8:33:39 PM
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the problem with arguing a case for "best guitarist" is that there's a certain amount of subjectivity involved which can't be argued either way. while certain things which hold true such as "[pretty much anyone at all] is better guitar player than kurt cobain," the subjectivity of it, once you get to a certain level, makes all arguments fall apart.
now, arthen brings up a good point. a guitarist, and really any musician, needs to be well rounded and capable in many styles to be considered "the best." if we accept this statement to be true, then it would seem that the arguments for both tr and srv weaken, because neither, to my knowledge, play any classical guitar really. i know tim does a bach courante and probably some other small pieces. i don't know what srv has done in terms of classical, but i'm willing to bet nothing significant. because of this, by arthen's (and my) logic, neither seems to be a candidate for "world's best." your best bet, at least for comparing the two players, is to look at the styles each does and how well they do them. i'd be willing to bet tr houses srv on an acoustic. but on an electric? that may be a different story. |
death to false metal. |
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guitarisPIMP
Yak Addict
Niue
587 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2005 : 10:02:11 PM
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Anyone else here ever fantasize about ways to rid the world of stupid people? |
my favorite color is go fuck yourself. :D |
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enthuTIMsiast
Alien Abductee
6990 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2005 : 10:58:51 PM
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| Used to be one of my favorite hobbies. Now I just ignore them. There's too many... |
Tim Reynolds Downloads
I am not the albatross of love, I am the human ellipsis. I am dot dot dot. - Leo Kottke
I hate beating people over the head with anything. We can all make up our own minds. What we don’t have is enough music. More music please. - Leo Kottke |
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GuitarGuy305
Alien Abductee
USA
2007 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2005 : 09:19:06 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by guitarisPIMP
Anyone else here ever fantasize about ways to rid the world of stupid people?
Yes. Definitely. But usually it ends up with me doing jail time...for life. |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2005 : 6:02:18 PM
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| you just got to know how to do it. |
death to false metal. |
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guitarisPIMP
Yak Addict
Niue
587 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2005 : 10:23:05 PM
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| Yeah. Through all this fantasizing I've learned that I'd be quite the serial killer/evil world-taker-over-er |
my favorite color is go fuck yourself. :D |
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tericee
Alien Abductee
USA
2579 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2005 : 09:31:12 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by guitarisPIMP
I wish music theory were taught in school more extensively...
This is why we should all support music education efforts like VH-1's Save the Music (http://www.vh1.com/partners/save_the_music/).
Check out this article...
A MUSICALLY ILLITERATE NATION
Ann Carpenter Kay and Scott M. Carpenter
The majority of our nation's eighth-grade students can't sing in tune, play instruments or read music, according to the 1997 National Assessment of Educational Progress. If you take them to a ball game, they can't sing the national anthem in tune, even if they know the words. Most can't play "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star" on an instrument. If you locked the refrigerator door with a combination that required simple rhythmic drumming to open it, most would starve to death.
Let's be serious now. What difference does it make if they can't sing? They get all the music they want on the radio and through CDs. They're not going to be any smarter, richer, or happier if they can belt out a tune or beat out a rhythm.
Think again. New studies indicate that musical ability is as related to intelligence as math or language. Music is an intelligence, says
Dr. Howard Gardner, a cognitive psychologist at Harvard University. In fact, making music may affect the very organization of the brain which positively impacts achievement in math, reading, and other disciplines. A study in Pawtucket, Rhode Island based on the Kodály (Ko-dye) music education approach documented improved math and reading achievement, behavior and attitude in first grade students. The students received more music time, visual arts, and the involvement of their classroom teachers. A replication of this study at Powderhorn Community School in Minneapolis Public Schools yielded similar results, with the most significant gains in word recognition and math. Another study reveals that young children who can tell the difference between different pitches become better readers. A Wisconsin study finds that kindergartners who play piano keyboards can also put puzzles together much faster.
Then there are the actual brain studies, such as the one that found that children who start practicing an instrument before they are nine have a larger area in their brains that processes sound. Marian Diamond's research in her book, Magic Trees of the Mind: How to Nurture Your Child's Intelligence, Creativity, and Healthy Emotions from Birth through Adolescence, says that rats with toys in their cages grow thicker cortexes within four days. Rats in other cages watching rats with toys don't exhibit brain growth. Most of us see this as common sense: you learn by doing. And you learn music by making music.
Everyone can learn to sing in tune and play instruments because music making is learned behavior. Sure, some individuals are going to be exceptional at it, but music is no more a special talent or gift than is math or language. The tragedy is that we teach as if it is, so most of our children never learn to make music. Imagine never learning to speak or read or understand language. Imagine never experiencing the pride and joy of linking letters and sounds into sentences on a page.
Most elementary music teachers were never trained in how to teach all of the children to sing in tune, play instruments, improvise and compose and analyze music. They were trained to teach the most promising students how to make music and the rest of them how to "appreciate" the music others could make. I have watched lifelong teachers of music break down in tears when they were finally given the skills and encouraged to teach all of the children how to make music. It was always in their hearts.
Music education approaches under the names Kodály, Orff, Dalcroze and Gordon offer instruction that shows teachers how to enable all students to achieve competence in making music. This is what is called for in the National Standards for music education. Let's not wait for more data before we take action. Teachers must seek training. Administrations must allocate funds to retrain music teachers, add more music instruction time for students, and purchase additional instruments.
Americans want to see improved learning in our schools. Music education that ensures music making for all of our children not only contributes to this goal but enriches the lives of all of us. Let's get to work.
http://musicmind.homestead.com/AnnKayarticle.html
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GuitarGuy305
Alien Abductee
USA
2007 Posts |
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TrippnBill686
Is Anybody Here?
5 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2005 : 6:37:31 PM
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My my my. While I disagree with most of the Tim-bashers in that thread (and there really honestly aren't many, they're just vocal), they certainly have the right to their opinion. Just because you disagree with their opinions doesn't mean that they're uneducated or bad musicians. Some are uneducated and trying to learn - we do, after all, do our best to welcome all members of the music commmunity, even those more lowly than yourselves. It's the only way they'll progress as musicians. I don't believe that passing judgment on them or calling everyone on a particular site "weenies" is the most mature course of action as a musician. I wasn't under the impression that musicians became an exclusive club that no one new can join. If you wish to combat ignorance, help introduce new musicians to new material, new topics. Don't treat them like scum who should be "ignored".
Regards,
Brock Batsell |
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guitarisPIMP
Yak Addict
Niue
587 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2005 : 7:44:18 PM
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I didn't diss any community of people, unless you consider people who are completely ignorant about music a community. I merely expressed my disliking towards the people who AREN'T a part of the music community, but feel that they have the ability to judge music based on their "knowledge."
In others' defense, only guitarguy and zachmo even mentioned the boards, and barely by definition in a hostile, judging manner. Don't lecture us on maturity and personal integrity just because you took the words a couple people said too harshly.
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my favorite color is go fuck yourself. :D |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2005 : 12:25:30 AM
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| part of me agrees with bill. there are people who talk about music and don't really know anything about it. probably the best way to deal with that is to teach. but that requires a certain amount of level-headedness and even-handedness. and. . .i don't think i have a lot of that. so i, and others, out of frustration use the "bludgeon" technique. |
death to false metal. |
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tericee
Alien Abductee
USA
2579 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2005 : 07:32:58 AM
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| It's good that you know yourself so well, Dan. :) |
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Erich
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1427 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2005 : 08:33:15 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by guitarisPIMP
Anyone else here ever fantasize about ways to rid the world of stupid people?
the problem with eliminating everyone dumber than me in the world is that I become the new 0; everyone else is either my level or abouve. I need stupid people to make me look s-m-r-ter. |
~pw'oikr
~( "> |
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Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2005 : 1:11:18 PM
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The problem, I think, with what LSDBill said, and I have met a LOT of people like this, is that many will confuse arguing opinion over fact, not that LSDBill did, I am talking about the people he's defending. It's this kind of illogical behavior that keeps people from learning or wanting to learn, unrelenting ignorance. Ignorance has become a bit of a buzz word, but in this context just as an obvious lack of knowledge on BOTH sides of the argument.
I took a strictly guitar techinique approach to my defense of Tim. Tim's style, very obviously, demands more ability to use the guitar in different ways, unlike SRV who has a pretty standard approach to making great music. I never once said Tim makes better music, which I honestly believe, but could never prove. The difference between me and most of the posters on that thread at dmbtabs.com is that I have listened to both artists extensively and know what they are capable of musically, to the best of the public's knowledge, that is.
All I'm trying to say is that when someone takes a stand on a topic, the argument that, "Well you're just stupid..." doesn't really fly. Frustration getting in the way of logic is a common problem in all aspects of today's society. |
http://db.etree.org/hopefulrollingwaves/ < My Trading List |
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riceboy
Is Anybody Here?
USA
44 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2005 : 11:55:43 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by enthuTIMsiast
I am more stupider for having read that thread.
I only read the first page and I feel as stupid as anyone who thinks that Tim couldn't run circles around any guitarist out there, dead or alive. Tim is the closest a person has ever come to playing a guitar perfectly. |
Shows Attended - 11.03.01 (Dallas) - 04.05.05 (Ft. Worth) - 09.30.05 (Boulder) - 01.06.06 (Boulder) - 01.07.06 (Aspen) - 03.31.06 (Dallas) Plus I got to catch the Dave and Tim in Vegas |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2005 : 01:21:05 AM
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technique tends to be a weak argument in and of itself. the problem is technique is only useful when it aids in the creation of better music. obviously gaining the capability to play more intricate music and play simple music more beautifully opens new doors from a creative perspective. so as it turns out, those with higher ability will turn out to be not only better guitarists, but better musicians. but things go wrong when technique becomes the point of the performace and music is secondary to technical proficiency. suddenly it's about the performer and not the music itself.
so when it comes right down to it, you can say "so and so's technique is better than what's his face's," but in the end, what does that matter? who's the better musician? the one who plays "mary had a little lamb" beautifully and flawlessly, or the one who plays "flight of the bumblebee" and fucks it up or just goes through the motions. i think it's the former, not the latter.
it's tough, though, because guitarists think of themselves as guitarists first, and musicians second. that tends to be relfected in the playing. when you break that mindset, it's then that you really start creating music, when you look at a piece of music and see music on the page, progressions and voices, not chord grips.
it's also hard to put music first in the performance, and not yourself. for many of us, music is sort of an identity. it's so much as part of us, of our lives and really of our being in general, that it's hard to sort of take a back seat and let the music speak. i know that i, for one, am forever in some way thinking of the piece, even if i wrote it, in terms of me. as if i'm saying "look at what i did" or "look at what i can do" as opposed to "listen to this. what does this mean to you?" obviously if it's an original, that's sort of different, because its existance itself was caused by you.
edit: i didn't swear at all here so. . .fuck. now i feel better. |
death to false metal. |
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Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
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Mechman293
Chatterbox
129 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2005 : 9:14:26 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by enthuTIMsiast
I am more stupider for having read that thread.
agreed not like thats really the much more possible for me... |
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Tim vs. SRV...
