| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
guitarisPIMP
Yak Addict
Niue
587 Posts |
 Posted - 02/21/2005 : 11:53:08 AM
|
Of all of Tim's playing, I'm most inspired and impressed by his purely improvised tracks and jams like the ones on Gossip of the Neurons. What most impresses me is that no matter how hard I try, I can't seem to figure out the general ideas of his improvisation, other than the electronic trickery he does, which most people on this board already understand.
I'm just wondering if any of you guys can point me in any directions or give me any clues as to the uncommon intervals he messes with, how he plays over the delays in odd timings, and the common dissident scales he uses. This is all generally speaking, though. I'm not asking for any tablature here, just ideas and techniques. |
my favorite color is go fuck yourself. :D |
|
|
JTR
Chatterbox
417 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2005 : 12:51:21 PM
|
| My personal technique for such delay improvs, is to just play what comes to mind, be it in a particular scale, or just a random note or ten, or a tone that seems right. I try to keep it different, but coherent, if that makes any sense. If I feel I've not used the slide enough, or I need some really high notes, I'll grab it and use it; if I feel I need to stop using the volume pedal and leave in the attack, I will... I dunno, just develop a sound that you like. I would like to describe my person approach as a "harmonic dissonance," although I'm sure I'm either too harmonious or too dissonant at most points for that description to really be that accurate. |
 |
|
|
guitarisPIMP
Yak Addict
Niue
587 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2005 : 4:09:54 PM
|
So you go mostly by your ear and just hear the intervals to develop an odd sound? That's mainly my approach at it as well, only I suck at it.
What about those dissident chords he often plays? I often mess with dminished/augmented/whole tone scales and chords but i never get those sounds right. |
my favorite color is go fuck yourself. :D |
|
|
|
Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
|
|
guitarisPIMP
Yak Addict
Niue
587 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2005 : 7:31:33 PM
|
| Check out in Hermetic Dew Drops. He will often end his phrases on one of many very odd sounding chords. Also, check out Loose Interpretations also on gossip of the neurons, and I'm not sure what scale he's using besides just major scale, but he's throwing in some odd intervals in there. |
my favorite color is go fuck yourself. :D |
|
|
|
Zack
Try A Little Harder
USA
73 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2005 : 10:43:28 PM
|
| If u haven't already, get a solid fingerpicking technique with ur right hand. Hermetic dew drops and songs like that come from, and are driven by, a good technique. Dont worry about the kinds of chords, u'll find them, just do a bit of theory work into jazzy sounding chords. But i think his retardedly strong attack with his right hand creates the hectic ideas for songs like that. I didnt give any answers about chords, but here u are anyways lol. |
Zack |
|
|
|
guitarisPIMP
Yak Addict
Niue
587 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2005 : 11:17:27 PM
|
Yeah I think you're right. It's tracks like Loose Interpretations that boggle my mind with his right hand technique. Mine's not so bad, but could be better if it had enough theory to back up the left hand.
It seems like alot of his jams are in drop D and involve power chords and bass lines. Any thoughts? |
my favorite color is go fuck yourself. :D |
|
|
|
Zack
Try A Little Harder
USA
73 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2005 : 2:51:17 PM
|
| ya drop c or drop d. lots of triads and bass lines. The bass line tells you where to go or how jazzy your stuff is gonna be. Once u get a few solid parts, u can expand on them...like loose interpretation...he designed that so he has all the room to improv in between the written parts. Thats the key for that kind of improv is constant practice with different scales. I askes a question previously on here about what chords (augmetned, ect) goes with what scales (phrigian, blues, ect). The kid posted me some good stuff, look for it on here. read his post, the go to wholenote .com, it lets u generate scales/chords for whatever keys u want. The lower parts of particular scales make for good bass lines that will connect with different triads in that same key ur dealin with. try it...good practice technique. |
Zack |
|
|
|
guitarisPIMP
Yak Addict
Niue
587 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2005 : 4:25:12 PM
|
| I'm actually learning different a different way to solo over chords instead of learning scales for each kind of chord, I'm learning to just hear lines from each chord. My jazz teacher played alot with Jimmy Bruno and a bunch of jazz guitarists I won't even pretend I know who they are, and he told me most of them say the same thing: that all the theory in the world and all the scales in the world will only get you the answer WHY the sounds work. When it really comes down to it, the notes you play depend on where you're coming from and where you wanna go. My ear still sucks as of now, though, so on the side of my ear training I'm looking to see if there's anything more in depth that I should know to be able to improvise like that. |
my favorite color is go fuck yourself. :D |
|
|
|
Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2005 : 5:24:52 PM
|
| I find that if you pick 2 slightly different sounding scales (e.g. major scale and harmonic minor scale) and noodle with them for like 3 minutes intervals over backing tracks, and really concentrate on their qualities, it really helps the ear out. Just continue till you can go back to whatever scale you picked against the major scale (or whatever you use) without thnking about where your fingers are going. Days, weeks, months, years..whatever it takes. I like to play them against the major scale mostly, but natural minor works well too. |
http://db.etree.org/hopefulrollingwaves/ < My Trading List |
|
|
|
guitarisPIMP
Yak Addict
Niue
587 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2005 : 6:33:20 PM
|
| I love experimenting with harmonic minor. The sounds that you can get from it are great. I'd like to mess with melodic minor, but I'm pretty lazy so nothing like that ever gets done. |
my favorite color is go fuck yourself. :D |
|
|
|
Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
|
|
guitarisPIMP
Yak Addict
Niue
587 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2005 : 4:03:40 PM
|
| I think you're right, but I'm still too lazy to want to sit and re-think all the scale shapes and everything. Every time i try to sit down and practice, I end up just jamming my heart out and not actually LEARNING much. But I'd say I get by. |
my favorite color is go fuck yourself. :D |
|
|
|
Hopeful Rolling Waves
Alien Abductee
South Sandwich Islands
2154 Posts |
|
|
guitarisPIMP
Yak Addict
Niue
587 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2005 : 6:23:38 PM
|
| Yeah that is right. |
my favorite color is go fuck yourself. :D |
|
|
|
guitarisPIMP
Yak Addict
Niue
587 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2005 : 6:01:05 PM
|
MICROTONES! I totally forgot about that untill about a week ago I was listening to Gossip of the Neurons, and I realized he's using his slide to play loads and loads and loads of microtones. It's amazing that he can hear all those tones. All of this really makes me appreciate Tim's music, it's like the more I dive into it the deeper I realize it goes. Also, I noticed when he doesn't use a slide, he'll often quarter bend to get the microtones he wants. I'm only just now experimenting with this and it's sounding so much better, even though I don't have much of a clue of where I'm going when I'm playing it.
My advice to anyone trying to develop a style like Tim's is to experiment with microtones, the sounds and tensions you can develop are ming boggling. |
my favorite color is go fuck yourself. :D |
|
|
|
JoeGamo05
Chatterbox
USA
279 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2005 : 10:15:09 AM
|
| TR does what he wants, when he wants. lol, best explanation i can give of his improv's. but theory is the way, imo, to help understand how it works. i've been learning jazz improv for about a year now and a lot of TRs stuff is a little easier to comprehend, ESPECIALLY, "Smile" this song i think is one of TR's best jazz performances.. it's so awsome to play as well, but if you look at some tabs you can see a general or vague system of scales. but yea perfect practice makes perfect |
When the trees start walking, the ground starts moving, your insane, your insane |
|
|
|
Arthen
Alien Abductee
USA
4845 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2005 : 5:31:16 PM
|
| Smile and Century Sister are awesome for that. |
Steve Hackett: "I'm my own opening act, you see."
Tim (before "Faceoff"): "Peace, love....and SEX!"
cbenc41@hotmail.com |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
Pure Improvisation Tracks
