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therippa
Fluffy-Esque
Kazakhstan
1099 Posts |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
 Posted - 08/29/2004 : 8:49:12 PM
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| i know the police are hitting it. hahahahaha. |
death to false metal. |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2004 : 9:11:34 PM
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I saw that there were some protesters protesting the protesters on the news. One guy said something like we finally get a guy trying to do the right thing and these people are trying to ruin it.
I started to laugh but then I realized he was serious and that's just not funny. |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2004 : 9:32:16 PM
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| that's what makes it so funny. he actually means it. once you let the full reality of it soak in, it's too vast for such puny things as indignation or disbelief. |
death to false metal. |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2004 : 10:36:00 PM
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Well it's funny but also sad.
If I was rich I 'd grab a ticket and fly out to protest the people protesting the protesters... Oh wait if I was rich I'd be a republican. |
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Arthen
Alien Abductee
USA
4845 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2004 : 02:45:58 AM
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Last time I checked being wealthy didn't make one a republican. Who's sitting on top of the Heinz family fortune?
I suppose I can understand the whole protestor thing to a certain point. They want their voice to be heard, they want the people they are protesting to know that they are being protested, etc, etc. Call me a cynic, but I honestly don't imagine any delegate stopping and listening, and saying: "Hey, they're right. I'll change my view on [insert issue]." |
Steve Hackett: "I'm my own opening act, you see."
Tim (before "Faceoff"): "Peace, love....and SEX!"
cbenc41@hotmail.com |
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KevinLesko
Alien Abductee
3712 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2004 : 03:07:41 AM
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| Well to me, this is a telling statement of how the public feels... I means what, 5 or 6 people were arrested at the DNC, tens of thousands protest... 200 arrests for the RNC, and it hasn't even started yet. |
god
Kevin |
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tericee
Alien Abductee
USA
2579 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2004 : 08:47:23 AM
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Maybe GOP protesters are more civilized about the whole protest thing, so they get arrested less. 
BTW, have you heard about Ed Koch?
(AP) Koch: I Support Bush, His Stance on Iraq
NEW YORK
Calling himself a "liberal with sanity," former mayor Ed Koch _ a lifelong Democrat _ said he decided to support President Bush in the 2004 election because of Bush's stance on Iraq.
"While I don't agree with Bush on any domestic matters, there's only one matter that's important in this race, and that relates to standing up to international terrorism, taking it on _ and George Bush has established that he is willing to do that," Koch said in an interview broadcast Sunday on WNBC-TV's "News Forum."
Koch crossed party lines earlier this year to endorse Bush. He said Bush's unwavering opinions contrasted favorably with what he called the "hypocrisy" of Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry, who Koch said wavered on Iraq and gay marriage.
Koch was appointed by Mayor Michael Bloomberg to recruit volunteers for the national Republican convention later this month, a role Koch conceded seemed "strange" to his friends.
"Whenever I go to a party, I will ask everybody 'who are you voting for?' And generally I'm the only one saying I'm voting for Bush," he said.
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PJK
Alien Abductee
USA
4159 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2004 : 08:53:23 AM
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I agree 100% Kevin! Peaceful demonstrations are at the core of our democracy. I think it is important when you see average, "regular" people who never protested before, protesting now. Protesting is something one should never take for granted, regardless of your political views.
As for the Republican convention. NYC is a hugely Democratic city and many feel that Bush is using 9-11 for his benefit which sickens many, myself included. The Republicans chose NYC because of 9-11. Large protests were expected. Honestly, I think the protests would happen wherever the convention was held because so many oppose the war. (Take notice on the TIM side of the board, where TIM performed at a rally in NM)
I am reading a extremely interesting book called "Nuclear Terrorism, the ultimate preventable castastrophe" by Graham Allison. The intro goes like this: "Americans today are keenly aware of our vulnerability to hijackings, bioloigical attacks, and chemical weapons. But the deadliest form of terrorism is almost too scary to think about: a terrorist group exploding a nuclear bomb in an American city.
In this urgent call to action, Graham Allison, one of America's leading experts on nuclear weapons and national security, argues that we must face this terrible threat squarely in order to understand it and neutralize it......In October of 2001 President Bush received a CIA report that Al Qaeda had smuggled a ten-kiloton nuclear weapon into New York City. It turned out to be a false alarm, but if such a weapon were to explode in Times Square, up to a million New Yorkers would die instantly........
Allison does more than weave a tale of doom, because his second proposition is that nuclear terrorism is preventable. He outlines an ambitious but feasible strategy by which we can essentially eliminate the danger.........."
With school back in session, I know many of you won't have time to read books that aren't school related, but if you do, this one is worth reading.
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"It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!"Friedrich Nietzsche |
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therippa
Fluffy-Esque
Kazakhstan
1099 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2004 : 12:14:54 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Arthen
Last time I checked being wealthy didn't make one a republican. Who's sitting on top of the Heinz family fortune?
Reminded me of this quote...
"People who are doing good tend to vote Republican, unless they have a higher education then they tend to vote Democratic." -Karl Rove
If you do not know who Karl Rove is, check out this. Make sure to check out the part about McCain and his adopted daughter. |
Aspiring to Be Fluffy-Esque an Alien Abductee! |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2004 : 12:25:39 PM
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| no one cares about peaceful protests anymore. even if they cared during vietnam, they don't care now. the only thing anyone understands anymore is violence. |
death to false metal. |
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PJK
Alien Abductee
USA
4159 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2004 : 12:37:01 PM
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| HAHAHAHA I expected such a comment out of you Dan. You have to be one of the most pessimistic people I have ever come across. When you acutually say something positive I am truly shocked! |
"It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!"Friedrich Nietzsche |
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PJK
Alien Abductee
USA
4159 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2004 : 12:38:31 PM
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| In the words of the late John Lennon, GIVE PEACE A CHANCE |
"It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!"Friedrich Nietzsche |
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therippa
Fluffy-Esque
Kazakhstan
1099 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2004 : 1:10:41 PM
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Shameslessy stolen and slightly modified for our own board...
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Aspiring to Be Fluffy-Esque an Alien Abductee! |
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guitarted
Chatterbox
Canada
487 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2004 : 2:05:59 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by therippa
Shameslessy stolen and slightly modified for our own board...
Sweet. Some of those are pretty funny... some I just don't get
that reminds me to do somethign about farker. I registered but I haven't gone back since |
Tim, come to Canada! |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2004 : 2:26:31 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Arthen
Last time I checked being wealthy didn't make one a republican. Who's sitting on top of the Heinz family fortune?
I suppose I can understand the whole protestor thing to a certain point. They want their voice to be heard, they want the people they are protesting to know that they are being protested, etc, etc. Call me a cynic, but I honestly don't imagine any delegate stopping and listening, and saying: "Hey, they're right. I'll change my view on [insert issue]."
I still have trouble seeing the difference between the two parties. Like let's Bush and Kerry are different in that Kerry aproves of abortion and bush doesn't. Having trouble finding many more differences. Kerry is going to keep 98% of the tax cuts. He is going to increase the size of the army. He voted for and supported the war. Maybe someone else can help me out but you're dead right in that being wealthy doesn't make you a republican. However a majority of people below the poverty level are democrats I believe.
Then you're right that no delegate is going to change his mind from people protesting. However it might help someone else to wonder why people are so adamant in opposing Bush and thus maybe begin to expel some ignorance. Things won't really change until the people begin to take power. |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2004 : 7:23:38 PM
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| hahahaha. i'm the fucking man. |
death to false metal. |
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Fleabass76
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1026 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2004 : 9:33:11 PM
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| Keep in mind that liberals have been building a network of protesters since before the Iraq war....but it's still cool to me as a pinko commie liberal.. |
Robots are the enemy? Hmm... |
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La Mer De Noms
Try A Little Harder
66 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2004 : 10:36:58 PM
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| wow |
Well that is that and this is this.
Will you tell me what you saw and I'll tell you what you missed,when the ocean met the sky.
You missed when time and life shook hands and said goodbye.
When the earth folded on itself.
And said "Good luck, for your sake I hope heaven and hell are really there, but I wouldn't hold my breath." |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 08/31/2004 : 12:30:51 AM
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| traitor. |
death to false metal. |
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Arthen
Alien Abductee
USA
4845 Posts |
Posted - 08/31/2004 : 01:21:51 AM
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| That bingo card is great! |
Steve Hackett: "I'm my own opening act, you see."
Tim (before "Faceoff"): "Peace, love....and SEX!"
cbenc41@hotmail.com |
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Fleabass76
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1026 Posts |
Posted - 08/31/2004 : 11:59:06 AM
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| My friend Megan just got ambushed the other day by some W supporters. She was driving on a bridge, when a big ass truck pulls in front of her and slows down. Then a durango pulls up behind her and gets right on her ass. They're both on cell phones. They don't let her get in the other lane to pass. This goes on for a little bit, and then they flip her off and yell something about kerry being a terrorist and her being a cunt. Megan is a 5'4" girl with no threatening qualities. I'm glad these fucking redneck bush supporters found it neccessary to assault her. What's next? |
Robots are the enemy? Hmm... |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 08/31/2004 : 1:56:49 PM
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how many times do i have to say it? violence. see? that was a violent act what happened to your friend. everyone labels liberals as bleeding heart sissies, because they steadfastly refuse to kick a little ass when the time comes for it. and the time for it is now.
i don't know about you, but if they bring back the draft, i'll do my part to turn everything everyone knows into a structure fire. if i have to fight, i'll fight people trying to send me to my death rather than people who wouldn't touch me if i stay where i am. |
death to false metal. |
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Fleabass76
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1026 Posts |
Posted - 08/31/2004 : 2:00:49 PM
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| There's a point where stooping to the enemy's level is just what the enemy wants you to do. You want to give the Bush administration an excuse to declare martial law? Granted though, if he gets re-elected and shit goes down, I won't be watching it on the news. |
Robots are the enemy? Hmm... |
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therippa
Fluffy-Esque
Kazakhstan
1099 Posts |
Posted - 08/31/2004 : 2:37:49 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dan p.
i don't know about you, but if they bring back the draft, i'll do my part to turn everything everyone knows into a structure fire. if i have to fight, i'll fight people trying to send me to my death rather than people who wouldn't touch me if i stay where i am.
You know, every once in a while we agree on something
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Aspiring to Be Fluffy-Esque an Alien Abductee! |
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Arthen
Alien Abductee
USA
4845 Posts |
Posted - 08/31/2004 : 3:36:25 PM
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| The situation you described Fleabass is completely wrong and there is no excuse for it to happen on either side. |
Steve Hackett: "I'm my own opening act, you see."
Tim (before "Faceoff"): "Peace, love....and SEX!"
cbenc41@hotmail.com |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 08/31/2004 : 7:51:02 PM
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| it looks like mr. bush is doing what he wants without excuses. you can sit back and bitch or you can truck bomb something. these are your choices. |
death to false metal. |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 08/31/2004 : 11:25:57 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dan p.
it looks like mr. bush is doing what he wants without excuses. you can sit back and bitch or you can truck bomb something. these are your choices.
Hahahaha maybe that's the way to go. |
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tericee
Alien Abductee
USA
2579 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2004 : 1:29:28 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dan p.
...if they bring back the draft, i'll do my part to turn everything everyone knows into a structure fire. if i have to fight, i'll fight people trying to send me to my death rather than people who wouldn't touch me if i stay where i am.
If who brings back the draft? |
teri 
Twittering about the DC adventure since Dec '09...
(Micro)Blog * Photo Album
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Fleabass76
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1026 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2004 : 3:10:17 PM
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| THEY! |
Robots are the enemy? Hmm... |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2004 : 5:27:37 PM
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those 7 jews who run everything. who the hell did you think i meant?
"they" means bush or kerry, and the government either bush or kerry would be working in. i felt that was obvious, and i'm surprised i had to waste my time answering it. |
death to false metal. |
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tericee
Alien Abductee
USA
2579 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2004 : 11:06:47 AM
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Sorry I wasted your time.
Anyway, if the military has anything to say about it, the draft won't be reinstated. We like having an all-volunteer force and don't want to go back to the old way of business. |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2004 : 11:38:01 AM
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| let's hope that's the case. |
death to false metal. |
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KevinLesko
Alien Abductee
3712 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2004 : 12:11:03 PM
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quote:
Anyway, if the military has anything to say about it, the draft won't be reinstated. We like having an all-volunteer force and don't want to go back to the old way of business
Teri, that's a great point that I think a lot of people do not realize. Last year, in a Political Soc. class, we went over the internal protests during Vietnam. In other words, members of the military who were protesting in one way or another... going as far as sabotaging boats to delay deployment, and even threatening, or killing superior officers. It was assumed that these were drafted soldiers, since presumably, someone who volunteers would mean that they want to be there. It makes perfect sense that the military would be against the draft. |
god
Kevin |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2004 : 8:05:13 PM
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Got this from democracy now!
Selective Services Preparing for Draft
The acting head of the US Selective Service is calling on Congress to increase its $26 million annual budget in order to be fully prepared to initiate a military draft if needed. This according to a report in the Boston Globe. The director Jack Martin told the Globe "We want to be ready to implement a draft, but we are doing nothing in that regard right now."
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/07/26/1337253&mode=thread&tid=25
So hopefully there will be no draft but still the US army is stretched out already and if something were to happen then we could very easily see a draft again. I've been wanting to get some time to do some research into the recent actions in congress regarding Iran. Talk of them giving authority to the US to strike Iran of course conditionally though. I don't know what this is all about yet since I haven't had the time to really look into it yet but a war with Iran would certainly bring a draft and definitely bring me to canada or jail. |
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Arthen
Alien Abductee
USA
4845 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2004 : 10:38:36 PM
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A conversation between my friend (very democratic, anti-bush) and his uncle (pretty conservative).
Friend: See the liberals care, they are showing up and protesting the RNC. The DNC wasn't protested.
Uncle: You know why? It's because all of the republicans were out working and can't take the time to sit out all day with signs. |
Steve Hackett: "I'm my own opening act, you see."
Tim (before "Faceoff"): "Peace, love....and SEX!"
cbenc41@hotmail.com |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2004 : 11:02:30 PM
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| why the fuck are you protesting a republican national convention to begin with? what, the republican's shouldn't be able to have a national convention, but the democrats should? or is there something about nation conventions in general you don't agree with? if so, why not protest both conventions? there's nothing wrong with any national convention. protest something else, please. |
death to false metal. |
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tericee
Alien Abductee
USA
2579 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2004 : 04:47:46 AM
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| Good point, Dan. |
teri
Twittering about the DC adventure since Dec '09...
(Micro)Blog * Photo Album
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PJK
Alien Abductee
USA
4159 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2004 : 06:52:31 AM
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Dan, to answer your question, people protest at conventions because they get seen and heard via the newsmedia. As far as equal protests for each convention, there were protests at the Democratic Convention. The reason you didn't hear much about it was because the location of the Democratic convention in Boston was more secluded because of security for terrorists. Demonstrators were kept back, away from the convention site. Republicans picked NYC, hey, no way to isolate a convention there! So for this year, location played a huge part. Keep in mind too, that typically more people will protest whoever is in office if they are unhappy with how the country is doing.
You may not like it, but our right to protest is a huge freedom not shared in many countries. Instead of bitching about it, you should be celebrating that. No one expects you or anyone else to agree with what the protesters are saying, I don't agree with many of them, but that right to protest is at the core of democracy. I know you don't think so now, but some day even you might be angry enough about some issue, you might actually be passionate about some civil right, that you may want to protest too. Just having that right is something to celebrate.
BTW Frustration and Fear bring about violence. All Violence ever does is create more violence. Educated people lean towards peaceful means of solving problems.
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"It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!"Friedrich Nietzsche |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2004 : 11:12:52 AM
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oh really. and pray tell, where are all of these educated people with their peaceful means and results? we haven't seen result one in anything yet from the educated who are using peaceful means to bring about change. it's a pretty sentiment, though. and one that at one point held some merit. and on the level of personal conflict, it may still be effective. but for the most part, it doesn't anymore. look around you. violence breeds violence? we already have violence in plenty. that will breed more violence still. the situations where violence creates violence have already begun.
yeah protesting is a major right. i understand that. that doesn't mean that every protest isn't absurd. i have freedom of speech, but that doesn't mean i should stand up in a crowded room and yell "sometimes foxes ejaculate into my mouth." could and should are different words for a reason. |
death to false metal. |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2004 : 12:21:09 PM
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Ever hear of Ghandi, dan? Martin Luther King? Almost all of the Civil rights movement came about by peaceful protest and means. I mean the government was the one usually commiting the violence. Check out the history of the labor movments which was mostly peaceful striking with harsh punishment by the government. But you don't see kids working 16 hour days in factories in this country anymore do you? That's where peaceful means and results are just to name off a few.
You know why I dislike Osama? Because while he has valid reasons for disliking the US what he accomplishes by attacking the US is killing a bunch of inocent people. It's the same reason why I dislike Bush. He thinks it's ok to go into another country uninvited and kill thousands of inocent people. Which like you said will breed more violence. So if I or others were to use violence to get some asshole(s) out of power then not only would that make me an asshole but it would only generate more violence not solve it which is what most people protesting are after. I truly believe that progress on this earth has been made not by violence but by peaceful means. Yes sometimes things erupt into violence but that violence is just a hinderence to the cause. Look at the Russian reveloution of the Bolshiveks (?spelling) and look where that left Russia. The same can be said for almost any reveloution.
I believe the means justify the ends and not the other way around so I'm a firm believer in non violence. |
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Arthen
Alien Abductee
USA
4845 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2004 : 2:13:57 PM
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| "I myself dabbled in pacifism, Dude. Not in 'Nam of course." |
Steve Hackett: "I'm my own opening act, you see."
Tim (before "Faceoff"): "Peace, love....and SEX!"
cbenc41@hotmail.com |
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CPPJames
Yak Addict
Fyro Macedonia
800 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2004 : 3:01:34 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Zachmozach
Ever hear of Ghandi, dan? Martin Luther King?
Ever hear of Osama Bin Laden, Zach? Saddam Hussein? Nikita Khrushchev? Fidel Castro? Adolf Hitler? Ghenghis Khan? Benito Mussolini?
Try holding up signs with not-so-clever slogans and singing protest songs to them. Peaceful protest only works when you have people in control that have opinions that can be swayed. Violence begets violence for a reason, it's the only way to stop it. Evil is evil.
These morons are absolutely kidding themselves if they think that disrupting the RNC for 15 seconds is going to change anything, other than their criminal record. While I might even respect their point of view, their "means" as you so put it come off as immature babble. Take it up with your nearest voting booth or move to another country.
"The means justify the ends"? While that makes no sense, I'll assume I understand your sentiment. I wonder where the concept of the greater good has gone. Reminds me of the film Swordfish where Travolta asks the guy if he'd kill one innocent child to prevent some act of terrorism or something like that. He says he wouldn't. Thank God he isn't in charge.
Granted, my solution of dropping pamphlets telling everyone in Iraq and Afhanistan that they have two weeks to get out before their country is incinerated isn't exactly the most popular point of view  . |
There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those that understand binary, and those that don't. |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2004 : 4:10:01 PM
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ghandi and martin luther are history. like i said, if you read and understood my post, it doesn't work now. violence wouldn't be my first choice either.
i'm sure you're familiar with the concept of the consent of the governed. ultimately power rests with the people. if they are unhappy with the government or an offical of the government, it is the people's right and really, their obligation to remove said person, or the whole government from power. this usually means through any of the variety of actions you can take within the democratic system, but those failing, violence is not inplausable. we've seen that voting doesn't always put a person in power, and somehow i don't see master bush getting removed from his position through an impeachment process that would ultimately lead to his resignation or removal. so what does that leave us?
that's what it leaves us. a picture from a riot in boston. it was a blast, but my friend got peed on.
also, vote or leave? haha. what an absurdity. how about i don't take my issues to the voting booth and stay right where i am? the problem with demanding people vote or not live here is that it leaves you with two options: drive me out or shut up. either way, i don't think i'm going anywhere. no where does it say my citizenship is dependant on voting, and since you have no power to make a law like that, my advice is to rethink what you're saying. |
death to false metal. |
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CPPJames
Yak Addict
Fyro Macedonia
800 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2004 : 6:06:23 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dan p.
also, vote or leave? haha. what an absurdity. how about i don't take my issues to the voting booth and stay right where i am? the problem with demanding people vote or not live here is that it leaves you with two options: drive me out or shut up. either way, i don't think i'm going anywhere. no where does it say my citizenship is dependant on voting, and since you have no power to make a law like that, my advice is to rethink what you're saying.
If you dislike the current politics of the nation you reside in, and you don't vote...you can't complain, PERIOD. If Bush is elected for another four years, and you don't like it...your choices boil down to leading some type of "revolt", sucking it up or leaving. I fail to see the absurdity. |
There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those that understand binary, and those that don't. |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2004 : 6:41:46 PM
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First of all to CPPJames. Ya and try protesting in the US. You get arrested for nothing but protesting. Look at the history of the 60's with the national gaurd being called in to break up protests. I fail to see how protesting here is that much different other than you truly are putting your life on the line for something you believe. Then let me make sure I understand your logic. Violence is the only way to stop violence. That ranks right up with the war to end war logic. That's irrational.
As far as protests changing something you only need to look at history. As soon as enough people get out and say we aren't going to take this anymore and we won't support you things will change. Civil rights wasn't a new thing in the 60's it's just it wasn't till the 60's that it gained force and momentum. Are the delegates going to say oh there are protesters we better change? No they will just continue on until the people can actually hurt them in some way. Preferbly without violence. I think your ideas are very unamerican and undemocratic for me to just vote and leave it at that or leave. That's not what democracy is about or the US read the 1st ammendment.
Means and ends logic is simple. Let's say you want a car so you car jack someone only they resist and you shoot them. But you've got a car. Thus if you believe that the ends (end result) are what is most important than you should have no problem with this. However if you believe that you should have give someone payment to buy a car from them then you might believe that the means to getting a car are just as important as just having a car. Same thing with war. Ya Saddam was a terrible guy (who the US supported throughout the worst crimes he commited) but does it doesn't justify the US going in and taking over a country against their will. Especially when they open up the entire country to foreign investment and kill thousands of people. There has to be a way around mass murder and every state I know has supported it through war. Ya the US got rid of hitler and nazi germany but it didn't erase fascism and it also killed millions upon millions of people. Look at what happened in Dresden.
Then to respond to your post back to dan... Vote all you want and it's not going to really change things. Everyone on this board has pretty much said how it doesn't do anything to vote for a third party candidate cause their never going to win. So I could vote for Kerry and it wouldn't change a damn thing he's not really talking about doing anything meaningful different than Bush. You know how I feel about Bush. So I can vote all I want and it's not going to make a difference when so many people are under the influence of ingnorance and indoctrination like they are today. So I'm going to be complaining whether I vote or not. Vote with your wallet. I used to think everyone should vote and I still think people should but I almost totally agree with dan about voting. I almost think when people quit playing the damn democracy game of voting like it's going to bring about meaniful change things will start to get better. |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2004 : 7:01:32 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dan p.
ghandi and martin luther are history. like i said, if you read and understood my post, it doesn't work now. violence wouldn't be my first choice either.
i'm sure you're familiar with the concept of the consent of the governed. ultimately power rests with the people. if they are unhappy with the government or an offical of the government, it is the people's right and really, their obligation to remove said person, or the whole government from power. this usually means through any of the variety of actions you can take within the democratic system, but those failing, violence is not inplausable. we've seen that voting doesn't always put a person in power, and somehow i don't see master bush getting removed from his position through an impeachment process that would ultimately lead to his resignation or removal. so what does that leave us?
I think I see. You think that it's just dead now? Like that doesn't work anymore but I fail to see why. Yes democracy is failing. It's funny that you mentioned consent of the governed. Anyone who analyzes the government now can easily see how they manufacture consent. Like how polls showed how almost no one thought we should go into Iraq to get rid of Saddam before the september when they started rallying for war. Now though that it's happened so many people are fine with the US taking over Iraq and spending lives to get rid of Saddam. So the government can manufacture consent for anything and has been manufacturing consent for programs and policies that are detremental to the majority of citizens.
I guess I thought you were supporting violence as the only means for political change. I would agree with you comment that they understand violence. I'm for hurting them in them were it counts. Their bank accounts. So I think I understand what you mean more and correct me if I'm wrong, but that it's come down to violence and even though it's not your first choice it's to that point? |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2004 : 11:22:46 PM
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yeah, but i never thought of the money thing. that might work, too.
suppose i don't vote, and whoever's in office ruins everything. that's the fault of people who voted him in, assuming votes make a difference in this election. you can say, you didn't vote, don't bitch, but i didn't even take part in putting a jerk in office. i'm no more to blame than the people who voted for the guy who made the mess. not only do i get to bitch about the official, i get to bitch about the idiots who voted him in. your not seeing the abusrdity in demanding i leave for neither voting nor liking the voted officials sounds more like a failure on your part than mine. it's pretty clear, really. and also besides the point entirely because i'm going to both stay here and bitch after not voting, irrational notions about it not withstanding. here's another incentive for everyone to partake in your adorable vote: put a decent man in office, and i won't say a word. |
death to false metal. |
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Arthen
Alien Abductee
USA
4845 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2004 : 11:52:10 PM
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| My vote officially doesn't count. I live in CA. John Kerry will take CA. Even if I wanted to vote for Bush, it wouldn't matter. Abstain! |
Steve Hackett: "I'm my own opening act, you see."
Tim (before "Faceoff"): "Peace, love....and SEX!"
cbenc41@hotmail.com |
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therippa
Fluffy-Esque
Kazakhstan
1099 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2004 : 04:06:36 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by dan p.
yeah, but i never thought of the money thing. that might work, too.
suppose i don't vote, and whoever's in office ruins everything. that's the fault of people who voted him in, assuming votes make a difference in this election. you can say, you didn't vote, don't bitch, but i didn't even take part in putting a jerk in office. i'm no more to blame than the people who voted for the guy who made the mess. not only do i get to bitch about the official, i get to bitch about the idiots who voted him in. your not seeing the abusrdity in demanding i leave for neither voting nor liking the voted officials sounds more like a failure on your part than mine. it's pretty clear, really. and also besides the point entirely because i'm going to both stay here and bitch after not voting, irrational notions about it not withstanding. here's another incentive for everyone to partake in your adorable vote: put a decent man in office, and i won't say a word.
Shut up dan p., you cock!
BINGO!!! |
Aspiring to Be Fluffy-Esque an Alien Abductee! |
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Arthen
Alien Abductee
USA
4845 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2004 : 04:14:11 AM
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| Damnit! All I needed was a Fluffy composition to win! |
Steve Hackett: "I'm my own opening act, you see."
Tim (before "Faceoff"): "Peace, love....and SEX!"
cbenc41@hotmail.com |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2004 : 12:38:05 PM
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| hahahaha. |
death to false metal. |
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clickr
Is Anybody Here?
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2010 : 06:26:20 AM
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87 of New York's 101 delegates to the Republican National Convention are to be allocated to the presidential contender receiving the greatest number of votes statewide in today's New York Presidential Primary.
[urlhttp://www.clickresponse.net]seo company[/url] |
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...and let the protests begin
