| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Erich
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1427 Posts |
 Posted - 08/20/2004 : 8:13:59 PM
|
Long post ahead. Thoughts very welcome and encoraged.
We know tim follows the beat of his own drummer when it comes to what hes doing musicaly, and I commend and respect him fully for that. I know that whatever the extent of his popularity he embraces, but at the same time is humble and would never compramise his integrety for fame or wealth. Im prefacing my thread with these statements because I have certain thoughts that may be misconstrued as wishing him to do so, but I assure you, theyre not.
Anyway. As many of you know, a lot of bands have started to take the road that Pearl Jam paved years ago and that Phish expanded to a new level. That is, downloading official concerts in lossless format. My personal opinion is that the industry is moving forward in that direction more and more everyday, and one day it will be selling albums in lossless formats online as if that was always the way to do it.
That leads me to Tim. As we all know, its usualy hard as hell to find Tim's albums in stores. His limited popularity doesnt allow for overstock of his merch in stores, and thats frustrating. We also know that we can purchase his stuff online, but even then its frustrating at times, and not everything is always in stock as well (case in point, try purchasing Stream from the musictoday.com official store) [ed - at the time of this post, MT.com was out of stock for Stream].
My opinion: Start selling official downloads of the commercialy available albums. DMB does it, and though its ridiculously expensive (50$ for a 6 cd set in FLAC format? Suck me, DMBs management), THIS is where I feel Tim, and the music industry as a whole, should go.
Think about it. No more having to pay as much distribution and printing costs for albums, especialy when theyre hardly ever in stock at a physical store. More more having to think about albums ever going out of stock, or out of print, either. Tims solo and TR3 efforts can be placed for sale as lossless files, with high res cover art people can download, at a price thats both conducive for Tim, the people involved, and the consumer. On top of that, the stuff thats allowed for free trade (ID, P-glyph, Light, Currents...) can be placed along side the other albums for free download, making them available to the public again.
In my honest opinion, this is where all artists should go, but speaking realisticly I think this can benefit Tim and his fans greatly, giving greater and easier access to his collective works. It wouldnt be a replacement for the purchasable hard copies of the cd, but it would be a wonderful, and cheaper alternative (no shipping!).
Furthermore, in the vein of livephish.com, i think Tim should start having his shows recorded on the board again by the crew. Whether or not theyd be for sale, i think theres enough interest in Tims shows to invest in a DAT > Lossless recording of his upcoming tours. they can go to the archive, and one day the archive can be nicely linked to the main page for ease of access. But thats more periferal thinking.
ok, thoughts? |
~pw'oikr
~( "> |
|
|
PJK
Alien Abductee
USA
4159 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2004 : 8:54:58 PM
|
Ok, this is from an older person's perspective, but I agree with you that it is a good way to go, but not at the exclusion of the traditional store sales. It would be great when you know what artist you want and where to get it, but I still like wandering the isles of Best Buy or one of the local used cd and record shops. I've explored music I never would have experienced had I not been rummaging through the racks at the store.
|
"It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!"Friedrich Nietzsche |
 |
|
|
Erich
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1427 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2004 : 9:57:38 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by PJK
Ok, this is from an older person's perspective, but I agree with you that it is a good way to go, but not at the exclusion of the traditional store sales. It would be great when you know what artist you want and where to get it, but I still like wandering the isles of Best Buy or one of the local used cd and record shops. I've explored music I never would have experienced had I not been rummaging through the racks at the store.
I agree, I dont think it should be exclusive. But with the way tims cds are stocked in most stores, it will seem that way regardless |
~pw'oikr
~( "> |
|
|
|
PJK
Alien Abductee
USA
4159 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2004 : 07:53:03 AM
|
Yes,you're right about that. |
"It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!"Friedrich Nietzsche |
|
|
|
Silky The Pimp
Alien Abductee
3321 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2004 : 12:22:00 PM
|
I've been thinking the exact same thing since the day we found out that ID was going to be an online download. What better way to overcome the limited availability of his CD's?
Another option other than taping the shows from the soundboard and then making them available online, is to burn them right then and there after the show and sell them for some small cost. I saw this done at show I was at in April. I didn't get the CD because the band sucked, but to be able to just buy a CD of the performance you just watched was very cool. |
 |
|
|
|
Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2004 : 2:47:40 PM
|
This is a good idea but I still really like getting the CD jacket and the notes with the art and all and it's not quite the same even if you get the album art and print it yourself. As for live shows this would just simply be awesome. The idea of burning them as you go at a show is a good one as well. However I heard ClearChannel was trying to get it so they were the only ones allowed to do this. Don't know if it will happen though. With a download you also miss the CD label. Then what about the certain tracks that go together with no time between tracks and the ones with a gap between tracks? You'd just have to have the info as to how it's set up but then you'd have to have a burning program that can do that.
For a smaller artist though this is definitely something to consider. I mean they would probably make the same if not more on their album it seems to me by cutting out all the middle men (or pretty close to it) and making your music more available. Then my question is there anything by Tim up on Itunes? Cause if so then you can already download his stuff online although it's not lossless. I heard that they were working on a lossless form for Itunes. |
 |
|
|
|
Erich
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1427 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2004 : 3:06:38 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Zachmozach
This is a good idea but I still really like getting the CD jacket and the notes with the art and all and it's not quite the same even if you get the album art and print it yourself. As for live shows this would just simply be awesome. The idea of burning them as you go at a show is a good one as well. However I heard ClearChannel was trying to get it so they were the only ones allowed to do this. Don't know if it will happen though. With a download you also miss the CD label. Then what about the certain tracks that go together with no time between tracks and the ones with a gap between tracks? You'd just have to have the info as to how it's set up but then you'd have to have a burning program that can do that.
Yeah, like I said, it souldnt replace purchasing the whole package. I mean, you gotta sell something at concerts, right?
ClearChannel are scum of the earth. Id eather wait till the end of the tour for access to the whole tour online than get it right after the show. Now to mention, last tim show i was at that had that fucked up both encores. *shrug*.
CD Labels, or stomps as a lot of people refer to them, can be included in the artwork package for printing. Not the same, but there are programs that allow you to make them.
As for songs that flow seemlessly into one another, well, its the same as burning a live set. Just burn DAO and youre good. Detailed instructions are a must though for anyone downloading. But its easy once you know, y'know?
quote:
Originally posted by Zachmozach
For a smaller artist though this is definitely something to consider. I mean they would probably make the same if not more on their album it seems to me by cutting out all the middle men (or pretty close to it) and making your music more available. Then my question is there anything by Tim up on Itunes? Cause if so then you can already download his stuff online although it's not lossless. I heard that they were working on a lossless form for Itunes.
iTunes, though i respect them for pushing the music industry in the direction I think it best belongs, is propriatary bullshit. At least its cheap (99c a song, and i think it was 10$ per album), but you get very little in .aac format so its not like its worth it in the long run. Lossless will be just as bad, in the .alc format (apple lossless codec, which i hear was based around flac).
Take DMB for instance. their lossless downloads for the studio albums are in a lossless windows media file. On top of that, it only allows "5 burns" and limited transfer of the files. Gag me with an ice pick. Id rather pay an extra dollar for a flac download than a cheaper price for propriatary bullshit (which isnt the case with dmb, as the albums are like 17$ a download. fuck them). |
~pw'oikr
~( "> |
|
|
|
Arthen
Alien Abductee
USA
4845 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2004 : 3:20:33 PM
|
I like the idea of Tim's albums being available online. As for the DMB stuff, there's only one album truly worth those kind of costs, and that's BTCS.
Whatever Tim decides to do, I'm gonna be right there to support it. |
Steve Hackett: "I'm my own opening act, you see."
Tim (before "Faceoff"): "Peace, love....and SEX!"
cbenc41@hotmail.com |
|
|
|
Erich
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1427 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2004 : 5:08:15 PM
|
 |
~pw'oikr
~( "> |
|
|
|
themangler
Is Anybody Here?
1 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2005 : 2:14:25 PM
|
Hey guys,
Im new to this board and Tim!!! Wow.
How the heck do i get the music off of www.archive.org.
Its in a weird format. And i try and download the cds off his site. And i always get a message like "disconnected from server" or something dumb like that.
Please...Please help. I need some more tim on my ipod!!!! |
|
|
|
JemezFoodPeople
Chatterbox
USA
330 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2005 : 11:25:42 AM
|
I think that the iPod generation is going to bring down music. Everybody has had an experience when buying a cd that we usually will purchase it for one or two good songs that we know we like. Then, weeks, months or even years later, we realize that other more obscure tracks on the album are really our favorites... and more personal favorites at that.
With the iPod, people buy only those single songs that they already know they like. All of the artists' efforts into producing other (ultimately less radio-friendly... or else how could you have known about the single songs) pieces will go unheard and unrewarded. The iPod people will gradually have little to no motivation to go out and just buy an album because they know the band will produce material of good worth.
Think about a person who purchased the TR single, "Stream" for his iPod. He would never get to hear such pieces as Letting Go, Metamorphosis, Impermanence, You Are My Sanity... do you see where I'm going? A musician is a catalog of work, not a single song. We are already stuck in a rut of not appreciating good music (look at what's out there, thank you ClearChannel)... and this single-song purchasing will only sink us further into that hole.
that's my two deutchmarks. |
"Do you have the patience to wait
till your mud settles and the water is clear?
Can you remain unmoving
till the right action arises by itself?"
-Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching
www.mattwinn.com |
|
|
|
Jimiforrest
Try A Little Harder
Oman
52 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2005 : 11:53:27 PM
|
Well how do you balance the shittiness of buying a Hip-Hop CD and only being happy with one or two songs on it with the "estimated listener appreciation" time of eclectic artists' CDs? Steely Dan said their new album would take 3 weeks to get used to. Lil Jon and his ball-licking fetish doesn't need to be dragged out over 3 weeks. From the instant you heard it you knew what it was a bout, "till the sweat drops down dese balls, wherall dese bitches crawl, wherall skeet skeet..."
I think the people reflect the fucked up state of music merely by their inability to locate the source of these instabilities. I don't mean this offensively, but, people simply aren't educated to the point of being able to be self-aware about something like music. The fact that we have to be so self-aware is sad in the first place. Experience with my IB classes and my normal classes tells me that education, and perhaps mostly realization is all kids need in order to look at music objectively. Otherwise we will have hot girls be doomed to repeat "GO DJ, cuz dat's my DJ" because some illiterate 4'5" nigger is being promoted by white corporate nazis all in it for the money. I'm sorry for dropping the n-bomb, but I assume you can see the tone of this diatribe is meant to be sarcastic. And I really couldn't think of a better defense than "illterate 4'5" nigger."
Music is music. Corporate nazis are corporate nazis. Let's try to keep as much seperation between the two as we can, I say.
|
Theres a country called Oman? |
|
|
|
Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2005 : 5:57:33 PM
|
My view on this (and this is coming from someone who pretty much only listens to art music) is pretty much that musicians make money from shows. Do you think Phish really cares that they don't do really well in CD sales when they can sell out the madison square garden? I mean the industry has gone to shit as far as musical quality and being in the popular genres. It's just a game of promotion and all that other BS.
For people like Tim who play art music and aren't into making lots of money and being a star and all that, the industry can be very hard to make a living at. Some of the really good musicians out there play the music they like regardless of what the masses think of it. Most people don't dig jazz past the 50's 60's very much and even though that's where most of the really good musicians are people aren't into it. That's why you see guys in NY playing in musicals and such even though they hate it. It pays good though so that's how they surrvive cause you basically get the same money now as you would have in the 70's for playing a jazz gig.
The industry sucks, but in many ways it's the way it should be. I mean there has been plenty of talk here about the drunk abercrombie kids doing their best to ruin some of Tim's shows and all that, and I kind of like that the people in "real" music play because that's what they dig and what they need to express. I mean it doesn't say much to come out and play some really hip jazz that's pushing the limits of out 12 tone system if you know that you're going to make good money no matter what, because there is no risk and people now take the risk of flopping and not being able to make it by not playing something that is marketable. |
|
|
|
|
Erich
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1427 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2005 : 7:06:18 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by JemezFoodPeople
I think that the iPod generation is going to bring down music. Everybody has had an experience when buying a cd that we usually will purchase it for one or two good songs that we know we like. Then, weeks, months or even years later, we realize that other more obscure tracks on the album are really our favorites... and more personal favorites at that.
With the iPod, people buy only those single songs that they already know they like. All of the artists' efforts into producing other (ultimately less radio-friendly... or else how could you have known about the single songs) pieces will go unheard and unrewarded. The iPod people will gradually have little to no motivation to go out and just buy an album because they know the band will produce material of good worth.
Think about a person who purchased the TR single, "Stream" for his iPod. He would never get to hear such pieces as Letting Go, Metamorphosis, Impermanence, You Are My Sanity... do you see where I'm going? A musician is a catalog of work, not a single song. We are already stuck in a rut of not appreciating good music (look at what's out there, thank you ClearChannel)... and this single-song purchasing will only sink us further into that hole.
that's my two deutchmarks.
Yes, but this wasnt really the direction I was headed with my thoughts on the subject. Here are my thoughts on what you're talking about:
1> The albums in which you know only the radio singles are usualy created so that you only know the radio singles. Those albums are created basically with more filler than good material, and because of that, the iPod generation is actualy doing their part in helping seperate the shit from the real artists. Theyre purchasing only the songs they want, leaving the rest untouched, since most of them know its filler anyway. This will cause the manufactured artists to either just release singles or try to create stuff thats worth the iPod generation shelling out for the whole album. see what Im getting at?
2> livephish and the sites like it, and DMB's online music store, dont sell single tracks. Someone cant go to dmband.com and purchase just BoWA from UtTaD. Thats the type of online selling I think is worth investing in. You're still buying the whole album, just a lossless download of it instead.
Zach and Jim - I agree with your posts, I just dont have much to add to them. |
~pw'oikr
~( "> |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
Tim, the industry, downloads, and other stuff...
