| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| CPPJames |
Posted - 04/30/2003 : 11:04:54 AM
Regarding scales and lead playing...can someone affirm/deny my assumptions?
1.) The pentatonic scale is an extremely safe scale because any of the 5 notes will almost always sounds pleasant over chords in that key.
2.) The entire major scale can be played over a progression in that key, as long as care is taken to avoid the 4/7 over certain chords.
Also, a question:
Do the harmonic/melodic minors provide alternatives to the natural minor scale? For instance, if you're playing a song in C minor, is it up to you whether you use the natural, harmonic or melodic minor for leads? Can you mix/match whenever you like?
Another question:
Are there only major/minor keys or is there such a key as B harmonic minor?
Thanks for any assistance...this is just confusing the hell out of me. I really don't understand when you can play out of key notes. |
| 4 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Poparad |
Posted - 04/30/2003 : 7:38:44 PM
The Dmaj Pent over Cmajor idea is along the lines of the 'lydian' sound. yes, F# is not found in the key of C, but it still sounds good over C major, in fact, it sounds better than F natural which you've mentioned you know is an avoid note. When I look at the way a scale relates to a chord, I break it down into the basic 7th chord, then what are known as 'upper structure' notes. Here's an analysis of the previously mentioned scale over Cmajor:
D E F# A B D
2 3 #4 6 7 2
The notes above are labelled with the degree of the scale in relation to the note C... let me respell it as 7 note scale so I can make this point a little more clearly.
C D E F# G A B C
1 2 3 #4 5 6 7 1
If you note, all the degree except the 4th are the same as C major, which is why they don't have sharps or flats next to them. The 4th is a half step high than that of the fourth in C major, so I call it a #4. Now, let's seprerate these notes a bit:
C E G B (C) D F# A
1 3 5 7 9 #11 13
I took the 4 notes of Cmaj7 and spelled them out, then took the notes in between and put them up an octave higher. These tones (9, 11, 13) are what are known as "upper structure" notes since they're above the first octave of chord tones, if they're all spelled in a row of thirds like I have above. These are your color tones and what a lot of 'out of key' notes tend to be. For every type of sound (major, minor, dominant, diminished, half-diminished) there are different sounds you can use. For major, you can play the major scale, but raising the fourth and making it C lydian is also a cool sound, and often the preferred sound by many players. You can abbreviate both scale choices into pentatonics to keep the pentatonic sound in your solos and the familiarity on the fretboard. Thus, C major pent and D major pent both sound cool over C major. You can use one, the other, or change between the two at your whim.
As for the Em pent over Am, let's break down the scale tones again:
Em Pentatonic:
E G A B D E
Arranged around the note A:
A B D E G A
1 2 4 5 7 1
It's very similar to Am pentatonic, infact, just one note is different (D instead of C). Since all the notes are very compatable with Am it's an alternative sound to use when Am pent starts sounding a little stale. There aren't any out of key notes in this one, so it's not as foreign as the first example may be. There are numerous other examples of scales to play, but these are just a couple commonly used ones that a lot of players use.
If you want some other scales to try, here some some cool sounds:
Over a dominant 7 chord, try the pentatonic a whole step below the root of the chord. So, over G7 you can play F major pentatonic. The principle behind this one is the same as the Dmajor pent over C example I already explained. Different notes come to play obviously, but it's the same concept.
Over Am, try playing Em (E F# G A B C D E). This is a bit of an extension on the previous pentatnoic idea I mentioned, and this gets into the modal thing again from the first example. Note how F# is not in the key of Am (which has an F natural). The F# is a natural sixth (or 13th if you look at it as an upper structure). The natural sixth is a sweeter sounding note and not as dissonant as a flat sixth. This mode is called "dorian". As a side note, notice how both A dorian and C lydian have the F# instead of F natural, and how both notes take away the avoid note of F, and how Am and C are very similar chords. Coincidence? Not at all. |
| CPPJames |
Posted - 04/30/2003 : 1:33:34 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Poparad
Try playing Dmajor pent over Cmajor which sounds pretty cool, or Em pent over Aminor (up a fifth). That last one is good when Am pent starts sounding boring.
Take that for example. In D major pent, there's an F#...which isn't found in C major. That's what's throwing me. I don't understand why that can work. Likewise with Em pent over Aminor... |
| CPPJames |
Posted - 04/30/2003 : 1:30:30 PM
First of all, thanks very much for the reply. I think I'm way too anal about all of this, lol. I'm constantly striving for what I can and cannot do instead of just listening to it. I'd like to have a list of all notes I can play over a certain chord progression, but I don't really think it's that simple. Out of key notes drive me nuts, lol. |
| Poparad |
Posted - 04/30/2003 : 12:42:16 PM
The pentatonic scale is a safe choice for just about anything, plus there are a number of cool ways to use it other than Am pent over Am or Cmajor pent over Cmajor. For example, Try playing Dmajor pent over Cmajor which sounds pretty cool, or Em pent over Aminor (up a fifth). That last one is good when Am pent starts sounding boring.
As for the different forms of minior, it is to a degree personal choice how you use it. If the chord is Cm you can use melodic minor pretty effectively or harmonic minor if you wish. If the chord is Cm7 you can still use those two, but I would avoid sitting on the natural seventh of both those scales.
There are certain chords in a minor key that you'd definately want to use something other than natural minor on. For the V chord (G major in the key of Cm) I'd definately use C harmonic minor. As for other chords, it's kind of a case by case basis. You can write a progression that borrows from different forms of the minor (Hotel California is a good example). Try spelling out each chord from each form of the scale and see what fits and what doesn't. Here's an example:
Cm Fmajor Ebmajor G7 Cm
For that, you can use any form over Cm since it's found in all three forms, for Fmajor I'd use Cmelodic minor since that's the only form with the A natural to make the F chord major, Eb major is in both the natural minor and the melodic minor, and G7 is both the in melodic and harmonic. I would choose harmonic over melodic though for the G7 because it adds more tension to the chord with the b9 (Ab) as opposed to a natural 9 (A natural) between the two scales.
And as for key, saying it's in "Bm" implies that any form of the minor can be employed. There aren't different keys for the different forms. As for playing out of key notes, honestly, if you hit the 3rds and 7ths of chords you can play whatever you want in between since you've already hit on the harmony, but that takes a while to get used to. |
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