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Musicians don’t want tunes used for torture...

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[quote][i]Originally posted by rubylith[/i]
[br][url]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28144557?r=1[/url]
[size=3]
Musicians don’t want tunes used for torture[/size=3]
Nine Inch Nails, even ‘Sesame Street’ theme used for interrogations

[img]http://msnbcmedia1.msn.com/j/ap/9763cfdb-75c5-4cb8-abac-2f3f70fbdcf4.hmedium.jpg[/img]
[size=1][i]The U.S. has used loud music against those held in Guantanamo Bay, Iraq and Afghanistan, and detainees now aren't the only ones complaining: Musicians are banding together to demand the U.S. military stop using their songs as weapons.[/i][/size=1]

[img]ttp://msnbcmedia1.msn.com/i/msnbc/Components/Sources/Art/APTRANS.gif[/img]
updated 5:48 p.m. ET, Tues., Dec. 9, 2008
GUANTANAMO BAY NAVAL BASE, Cuba - Blaring from a speaker behind a metal grate in his tiny cell in Iraq, the blistering rock from Nine Inch Nails hit Prisoner No. 200343 like a sonic bludgeon.

“Stains like the blood on your teeth,” Trent Reznor snarled over distorted guitars. “Bite. Chew.”

The auditory assault went on for days, then weeks, then months at the U.S. military detention center in Iraq. Twenty hours a day. AC/DC. Queen. Pantera. The prisoner, military contractor Donald Vance of Chicago, told The Associated Press he was soon suicidal.

The tactic has been common in the U.S. war on terror, with forces systematically using loud music on hundreds of detainees in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay. Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, then the U.S. military commander in Iraq, authorized it on Sept. 14, 2003, “to create fear, disorient ... and prolong capture shock.”

Now the detainees aren’t the only ones complaining. Musicians are banding together to demand the U.S. military stop using their songs as weapons.

A campaign being launched Wednesday has brought together groups including Massive Attack and musicians such as Tom Morello, who played with Rage Against the Machine and Audioslave and is now on a solo tour. It will feature minutes of silence during concerts and festivals, said Chloe Davies of the British law group Reprieve, which represents dozens of Guantanamo Bay detainees and is organizing the campaign.

At least Vance, who says he was jailed for reporting illegal arms sales, was used to rock music. For many detainees who grew up in Afghanistan — where music was prohibited under Taliban rule — interrogations by U.S. forces marked their first exposure to the pounding rhythms, played at top volume.

‘Plenty lost their minds’
The experience was overwhelming for many. Binyam Mohammed, now a prisoner at Guantanamo Bay, said men held with him at the CIA’s “Dark Prison” in Afghanistan wound up screaming and smashing their heads against walls, unable to endure more.

“There was loud music, (Eminem’s) ‘Slim Shady’ and Dr. Dre for 20 days. I heard this nonstop over and over,” he told his lawyer, Clive Stafford Smith. “The CIA worked on people, including me, day and night for the months before I left. Plenty lost their minds.”

The spokeswoman for Guantanamo’s detention center, Navy Cmdr. Pauline Storum, wouldn’t give details of when and how music has been used at the prison, but said it isn’t used today. She didn’t respond when asked whether music might be used in the future.

FBI agents stationed at Guantanamo Bay reported numerous instances in which music was blasted at detainees, saying they were “told such tactics were common there.”

According to an FBI memo, one interrogator at Guantanamo Bay bragged he needed only four days to “break” someone by alternating 16 hours of music and lights with four hours of silence and darkness.

Ruhal Ahmed, a Briton who was captured in Afghanistan, describes excruciating sessions at Guantanamo Bay. He said his hands were shackled to his feet, which were shackled to the floor, forcing him into a painful squat for periods of up to two days.

“You’re in agony,” Ahmed, who was released without charge in 2004, told Reprieve. He said the agony was compounded when music was introduced, because “before you could actually concentrate on something else, try to make yourself focus on some other things in your life that you did before and take that pain away.

“It makes you feel like you are going mad,” he said.

‘Sesame Street’ tunes used for interrogation
Not all of the music is hard rock. Christopher Cerf, who wrote music for “Sesame Street,” said he was horrified to learn songs from the children’s TV show were used in interrogations.

“I wouldn’t want my music to be a party to that,” he told AP.

Bob Singleton, whose song “I Love You” is beloved by legions of preschool Barney fans, wrote in a newspaper opinion column that any music can become unbearable if played loudly for long stretches.

“It’s absolutely ludicrous,” he wrote in the Los Angeles Times. “A song that was designed to make little children feel safe and loved was somehow going to threaten the mental state of adults and drive them to the emotional breaking point?”

Morello, of Rage Against the Machine, has been especially forceful in denouncing the practice. During a recent concert in San Francisco, he proposed taking revenge on President George W. Bush.

“I suggest that they level Guantanamo Bay, but they keep one small cell and they put Bush in there ... and they blast some Rage Against the Machine,” he said to whoops and cheers.

Some musicians, however, say they’re proud that their music is used in interrogations. Those include bassist Stevie Benton, whose group Drowning Pool has performed in Iraq and recorded one of the interrogators’ favorites, “Bodies.”

“People assume we should be offended that somebody in the military thinks our song is annoying enough that played over and over it can psychologically break someone down,” he told Spin magazine. “I take it as an honor to think that perhaps our song could be used to quell another 9/11 attack or something like that.”

The band’s record label told AP that Benton did not want to comment further. Instead, the band issued a statement reading: “Drowning Pool is committed to supporting the lives and rights of our troops stationed around the world.”

Tactics to make men go mad
Vance, in a telephone interview from Chicago, said the tactic can make innocent men go mad. According to a lawsuit he has filed, his jailers said he was being held because his employer was suspected of selling weapons to terrorists and insurgents. The U.S. military confirms Vance was jailed but won’t elaborate because of the lawsuit.

He said he was locked in an overcooled 9-foot-by-9-foot cell that had a speaker with a metal grate over it. Two large speakers stood in the hallway outside. The music was almost constant, mostly hard rock, he said.

“There was a lot of Nine Inch Nails, including ‘March of the Pigs,”’ he said. “I couldn’t tell you how many times I heard Queen’s ‘We Will Rock You.”’

He wore only a jumpsuit and flip-flops and had no protection from the cold.

“I had no blanket or sheet. If I had, I would probably have tried suicide,” he said. “I got to a few points toward the end where I thought, ‘How can I do this?’ Actively plotting, ‘How can I get away with it so they don’t stop it?”’

Asked to describe the experience, Vance said: “It sort of removes you from you. You can no longer formulate your own thoughts when you’re in an environment like that.”

He was released after 97 days. Two years later, he says, “I keep my home very quiet.”

-------------------------

So everybody...if you were tortured...what or who's music would be used to torture you?

[/quote]

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T O P I C R E V I E W
rubylith	Posted - 12/12/2008 : 1:30:43 PM http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28144557?r=1 Musicians don’t want tunes used for torture Nine Inch Nails, even ‘Sesame Street’ theme used for interrogations The U.S. has used loud music against those held in Guantanamo Bay, Iraq and Afghanistan, and detainees now aren't the only ones complaining: Musicians are banding together to demand the U.S. military stop using their songs as weapons. updated 5:48 p.m. ET, Tues., Dec. 9, 2008 GUANTANAMO BAY NAVAL BASE, Cuba - Blaring from a speaker behind a metal grate in his tiny cell in Iraq, the blistering rock from Nine Inch Nails hit Prisoner No. 200343 like a sonic bludgeon. “Stains like the blood on your teeth,” Trent Reznor snarled over distorted guitars. “Bite. Chew.” The auditory assault went on for days, then weeks, then months at the U.S. military detention center in Iraq. Twenty hours a day. AC/DC. Queen. Pantera. The prisoner, military contractor Donald Vance of Chicago, told The Associated Press he was soon suicidal. The tactic has been common in the U.S. war on terror, with forces systematically using loud music on hundreds of detainees in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay. Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, then the U.S. military commander in Iraq, authorized it on Sept. 14, 2003, “to create fear, disorient ... and prolong capture shock.” Now the detainees aren’t the only ones complaining. Musicians are banding together to demand the U.S. military stop using their songs as weapons. A campaign being launched Wednesday has brought together groups including Massive Attack and musicians such as Tom Morello, who played with Rage Against the Machine and Audioslave and is now on a solo tour. It will feature minutes of silence during concerts and festivals, said Chloe Davies of the British law group Reprieve, which represents dozens of Guantanamo Bay detainees and is organizing the campaign. At least Vance, who says he was jailed for reporting illegal arms sales, was used to rock music. For many detainees who grew up in Afghanistan — where music was prohibited under Taliban rule — interrogations by U.S. forces marked their first exposure to the pounding rhythms, played at top volume. ‘Plenty lost their minds’ The experience was overwhelming for many. Binyam Mohammed, now a prisoner at Guantanamo Bay, said men held with him at the CIA’s “Dark Prison” in Afghanistan wound up screaming and smashing their heads against walls, unable to endure more. “There was loud music, (Eminem’s) ‘Slim Shady’ and Dr. Dre for 20 days. I heard this nonstop over and over,” he told his lawyer, Clive Stafford Smith. “The CIA worked on people, including me, day and night for the months before I left. Plenty lost their minds.” The spokeswoman for Guantanamo’s detention center, Navy Cmdr. Pauline Storum, wouldn’t give details of when and how music has been used at the prison, but said it isn’t used today. She didn’t respond when asked whether music might be used in the future. FBI agents stationed at Guantanamo Bay reported numerous instances in which music was blasted at detainees, saying they were “told such tactics were common there.” According to an FBI memo, one interrogator at Guantanamo Bay bragged he needed only four days to “break” someone by alternating 16 hours of music and lights with four hours of silence and darkness. Ruhal Ahmed, a Briton who was captured in Afghanistan, describes excruciating sessions at Guantanamo Bay. He said his hands were shackled to his feet, which were shackled to the floor, forcing him into a painful squat for periods of up to two days. “You’re in agony,” Ahmed, who was released without charge in 2004, told Reprieve. He said the agony was compounded when music was introduced, because “before you could actually concentrate on something else, try to make yourself focus on some other things in your life that you did before and take that pain away. “It makes you feel like you are going mad,” he said. ‘Sesame Street’ tunes used for interrogation Not all of the music is hard rock. Christopher Cerf, who wrote music for “Sesame Street,” said he was horrified to learn songs from the children’s TV show were used in interrogations. “I wouldn’t want my music to be a party to that,” he told AP. Bob Singleton, whose song “I Love You” is beloved by legions of preschool Barney fans, wrote in a newspaper opinion column that any music can become unbearable if played loudly for long stretches. “It’s absolutely ludicrous,” he wrote in the Los Angeles Times. “A song that was designed to make little children feel safe and loved was somehow going to threaten the mental state of adults and drive them to the emotional breaking point?” Morello, of Rage Against the Machine, has been especially forceful in denouncing the practice. During a recent concert in San Francisco, he proposed taking revenge on President George W. Bush. “I suggest that they level Guantanamo Bay, but they keep one small cell and they put Bush in there ... and they blast some Rage Against the Machine,” he said to whoops and cheers. Some musicians, however, say they’re proud that their music is used in interrogations. Those include bassist Stevie Benton, whose group Drowning Pool has performed in Iraq and recorded one of the interrogators’ favorites, “Bodies.” “People assume we should be offended that somebody in the military thinks our song is annoying enough that played over and over it can psychologically break someone down,” he told Spin magazine. “I take it as an honor to think that perhaps our song could be used to quell another 9/11 attack or something like that.” The band’s record label told AP that Benton did not want to comment further. Instead, the band issued a statement reading: “Drowning Pool is committed to supporting the lives and rights of our troops stationed around the world.” Tactics to make men go mad Vance, in a telephone interview from Chicago, said the tactic can make innocent men go mad. According to a lawsuit he has filed, his jailers said he was being held because his employer was suspected of selling weapons to terrorists and insurgents. The U.S. military confirms Vance was jailed but won’t elaborate because of the lawsuit. He said he was locked in an overcooled 9-foot-by-9-foot cell that had a speaker with a metal grate over it. Two large speakers stood in the hallway outside. The music was almost constant, mostly hard rock, he said. “There was a lot of Nine Inch Nails, including ‘March of the Pigs,”’ he said. “I couldn’t tell you how many times I heard Queen’s ‘We Will Rock You.”’ He wore only a jumpsuit and flip-flops and had no protection from the cold. “I had no blanket or sheet. If I had, I would probably have tried suicide,” he said. “I got to a few points toward the end where I thought, ‘How can I do this?’ Actively plotting, ‘How can I get away with it so they don’t stop it?”’ Asked to describe the experience, Vance said: “It sort of removes you from you. You can no longer formulate your own thoughts when you’re in an environment like that.” He was released after 97 days. Two years later, he says, “I keep my home very quiet.” ------------------------- So everybody...if you were tortured...what or who's music would be used to torture you?
15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
Ranting Thespian	Posted - 12/18/2008 : 04:49:49 AM quote: Originally posted by dan p. quote: Originally posted by Ranting Thespian I still think the whole My Sweet Lord shit was stupid. Also, why doesn't Dylan sue Led Zeppelin for Stairway using the main chord progression he wrote in All Along the Watchtower? Stupid people. because chord progressions can't be copyrighted? That's right. Hence unless you really stole the song, rather than just use a chord progression or part of a melody either intentional as in honoring or unintentional in a coincidence or subliminal or what the hell even intentional because you liked it, people then should just shut up.
jsemon2	Posted - 12/17/2008 : 10:56:05 PM i guess, who cares? because it deals with the big, bad government? for me it falls under the same as radio stations playing the same shit every hour and calling it the "new" song after heavy rotation for months.
Arthen	Posted - 12/17/2008 : 9:59:52 PM quote: Originally posted by Hopeful Rolling Waves Or why doesn't everyone sue Led Zeppelin for stealing everything. Check it> http://www.artofthemix.org/FindAMix/getcontents.asp?strMixID=89189 http://www.artofthemix.org/FindAMix/getcontents.asp?strmixid=89190 Because they made it sound awesome.
dan p.	Posted - 12/17/2008 : 9:42:31 PM quote: Originally posted by Ranting Thespian I still think the whole My Sweet Lord shit was stupid. Also, why doesn't Dylan sue Led Zeppelin for Stairway using the main chord progression he wrote in All Along the Watchtower? Stupid people. because chord progressions can't be copyrighted?
Hopeful Rolling Waves	Posted - 12/17/2008 : 3:41:51 PM Or why doesn't everyone sue Led Zeppelin for stealing everything. Check it> http://www.artofthemix.org/FindAMix/getcontents.asp?strMixID=89189 http://www.artofthemix.org/FindAMix/getcontents.asp?strmixid=89190
Ranting Thespian	Posted - 12/17/2008 : 2:47:11 PM I still think the whole My Sweet Lord shit was stupid. Also, why doesn't Dylan sue Led Zeppelin for Stairway using the main chord progression he wrote in All Along the Watchtower? Stupid people.
Arthen	Posted - 12/17/2008 : 2:22:40 PM Exactly! Or as Fluffy pointed out to me after a concert, one of the major parts of "Stream" is "Mary Had a Little Lamb." We hear things and they get sucked in and manifest them in our own work.
Hopeful Rolling Waves	Posted - 12/17/2008 : 10:46:08 AM Tom Petty really bores the piss out of me. Joe Satriani is a toolshed for whining about a melody. See TR's Delicate Balance vs. the Beatles' Yesterday. Call your lawyer, McCartney. AHAHA
Ranting Thespian	Posted - 12/17/2008 : 08:30:18 AM That shows you that Tom Petty is more mature than Joe Satriani. Also, even though he is not as good of a guitarist as Joe, I think he writes better songs and is a better musician.
Arthen	Posted - 12/17/2008 : 03:37:43 AM I like the new Coldplay album as well, particularly because the Eno touch definitely helps them progress. As for a lot of the music on the "torture" list, that's torture hearing it anytime in anyplace. As for the people suing Coldplay, get over yourselves. Everything in music is stolen or borrowed. You want to see a class act, review Tom Petty's response to "Dani California" by Red Hot Chili Peppers. From Wikipedia: "In an interview with Rolling Stone magazine, Petty denied rumors that he planned to sue the Chili Peppers and said, "I seriously doubt that there is any negative intent there. And a lot of rock & roll songs sound alike." Petty went on to say that The Strokes admitted that they took Tom Petty's riff for "American Girl" and used it in their song "Last Nite".[9]" There's only so many chords people.
Ranting Thespian	Posted - 12/13/2008 : 07:07:45 AM That Barney song would make me go insane. Also, I'm sorry, I love the album Viva La Vida or Death And All His Friends. But I don't want to start a debate on wither Coldplay stole songs or not (which I say they didn't) or if they suck or not.
dan p.	Posted - 12/13/2008 : 03:57:17 AM tso's good. i'm not a giant fan of the last cd they put out, the lost christmas eve or whatever. there are a few great songs and a lot of not so good stuff. also, there's less orchestra, which is fail.
Hopeful Rolling Waves	Posted - 12/12/2008 : 4:17:55 PM Spurious lawsuit, Coldplay is lame as hell these days; but it's a pathetic argument. Torture Song of the Year : Ventolin by Aphex Twin
rubylith	Posted - 12/12/2008 : 3:38:54 PM Dan I know you'll disagree but that Transiberian Orchestra crap would make my head explode. That or Lil' Wayne.....oh shit what about a Transiberian Orchestra/Lil Wayne mashup. Dear god what have I done. Oh by the way COldplay blows and keep stealing peoples songs. This band we are playing with claims they stole one of their songs..check out this video... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUhFLiw6h6s Whats funny...is that Joe Satriani is suing Coldplay for the same song now. I don't know whats worse, Coldplay stealing songs and that ugly ass "hip" jacket he wears or hanging out with this dude for a weekend. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEGGFJLpbu4
dan p.	Posted - 12/12/2008 : 3:10:03 PM well, they used a bunch of weak-sauce music on these guys. drowning pool? rage against the machine? nin? easy listening. the hardest thing they used was pantera, and that's borderline. your best bet for music-torturing me is techno.

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