| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| EnlightenThis |
Posted - 04/12/2008 : 4:27:57 PM
I have been in school (accounting and business management) for a very unhappy three years trying to figure out where to go with my life. After seeing TR3 at the Double Doors I pulled my head out of my ass and realized that music is what i want to do with my life, I never felt I belonged somewhere more. I am applying to Columbia College Chicago for some sort of musical education. I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts. Ideally, I would love to learn by simply being around the music as it happens but I was blessed with the necessity of 24 pills a day to keep me living and therefore have to be enrolled full time or have a job with benefits to help cover my pills.(thank you bitch from senior year with mono that triggered everything) im really not unhappy about it though. Moral of the story: what are your thoughts on what would be the best base for a career in music. Obviously the degree would provide the most apparent credibility, but I learned how to shine shoes by spending time and watching a 63 year old man who had shined shoes his entire life. I feel I learn Best like that. A bachelors in Music? Minor in Acoustics or Recording? I Just need some guidance fellow lovers of the beat......
Thank you all in advance |
| 32 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| dan p. |
Posted - 05/22/2008 : 6:55:42 PM
good points both. i suggest continuing your major, maybe pick up a minor, or maybe just lessons or something, and do music as your hobby/passion, because it sounds to me like that's what it is for you; not a means to provide, but something else. |
| guitfiddler |
Posted - 05/22/2008 : 12:33:18 AM
It boils down to why you are in school. Is school an investment in your future, or a learning experience? As an investment, a business degree is much more valuable, with less risk. When you sign the tuition check, are you paying for the knowledge, or the opportunity? |
| victorwootenfan |
Posted - 05/19/2008 : 02:23:03 AM
Just some two cents. I graduated my undergrad with a music industry major. Looking back at it, I wish I would've just gone for a music composition degree, because my school's program for music industry wasn't that great. For what I was doing, there were a limited amount of music industry majors, but a LOT of minors who were business majors. I played double bass, and went through the classical stuffis (wouldn't trade it for anything), and had another bass playing friend who did almost everything I did, but as a music minor and a business major. He's now graduating with a great portfolio, resume, and knows his shit on the business side of thing. Point being, you don't have to change degrees to play or study music. You can always pick up a minor, or sign up for a few music classes here and there in theory/composition, or even taking private lessons. |
| Ranting Thespian |
Posted - 04/19/2008 : 11:46:52 PM
quote:
Originally posted by dan p.
note: as i was editing my above post for gratuitous typos, i noticed something. one of my typos included the phrase "i would bed john lennon. . ." instead of "i would bet john lennon. . ." i think we can all agree that that's hilarious.
Yes, it is. |
| dan p. |
Posted - 04/19/2008 : 10:09:49 PM
note: as i was editing my above post for gratuitous typos, i noticed something. one of my typos included the phrase "i would bed john lennon. . ." instead of "i would bet john lennon. . ." i think we can all agree that that's hilarious. |
| dan p. |
Posted - 04/19/2008 : 10:04:12 PM
is it difficult to argue with you, thespian, because you are saying things which are fundamentally wrong, such that you can't really make an argument against. imagine i told you, and insisted, that 4 was 5. there isn't really a way to show you that it's wrong. but since i can't seem to shut the fuck up, here we go.
you posit that john lennon is a genius, and your defense of that statement is that his music pulls you out of your depression, with which you have been diagnosed. it's awesome that his music does that, but it indicates nothing as far as his genius goes. what about all the people for whom his music illicits no such response? his music's effect on one person does not prove genius simply because it works wonders on you. suppose shakira's, uh, output, pulls me out of my depression. is shakira a genius? the answer is, resoundingly, "no fucking way." i've heard sgt. peppers. it's good. it doesn't strike me as genius, though.
also, john lennon's work wouldn't even exist without bach. tonal western music as we all know it would not exist. you assertion that bach or beethoven could not write imagine is meaningless anyway. i'd be willing to bet john lennon couldn't write a decent metal song, of any subgenre, for shit. so what? doesn't mean anything.
next you assert that music is, in fact, your life. so, music is your life, but you can't be bothered to relearn standard notation or learn theory? something's not adding up here, because those are two whole facets of music. also, tablature is not "a way to read music." it is a way to know where to put your fingers on a fretboard, without relation to pulse or meter. it only works for fretted instruments, and fretted instruments do not encompass the whole of music. standard notation does work for every instrument, though.
you are right, though. theory and reading music alone do not make a musician. you do need to feel it and love it.
assorted notes: 1. fingerpicking and classical guitar are two very different things. 2. stop telling us to listen to a john lennon piece, as if we all haven't heard it a billion times and it will illuminate your points perfectly. 3. stop taking shit so personally. we know you love music. we all do here. no one's questioning your love of music, comparing lennon to shakira, or saying you have bad taste in music. seriously dude, this isn't all about you. your fanboy anger at people who don't profess their love for lennon and personal affront at our statements is annoying and beneath you. it's also beneath us, so let's just cut that out. you're too good and too smart to say be saying it and i'm too good and too smart to dignify it with a further response. let's be grown ups! |
| EnlightenThis |
Posted - 04/19/2008 : 3:06:17 PM
"Music is a thing that is bigger than us both and I'm happy that you like it and enjoy it in whatever way you choose. I think though that because music is bigger than us we can't own it or anything like that. Thus it's not a part of your life. You have to give yourself to it, so that you are a part of it's life."
Amen.
To be truly great at something, you must devote yourself to it, in its entirety. To say that theory is unnecessary is arrogance. Yes, Lennon could be a genius, but IMAGINE the things he could've done had he devoted more time to learning theory. IMAGINE the people he could've played with, not over time, but instantly, if he would've have devoted more time to knowledge in theory. IMAGINE the things he could've done if he had taken the time to not simply be talented, but educated as well. There is a respect, for yourself as a musician and towards Music (capital m), in learning the theory and a purpose in it. Neither Dan nor Zach is insulting Lennon or yourself, they are simply saying that he could've done so many greater things had he possessed the knowledge. Music is NOT your life. You eating, thinking, breathing, and existing IS your life. If you die right now, Music still goes on. That fact alone should show you that Music is not YOUR life, but what you choose to do with the time you have that is your "life". Lighten up. Wherever you are in that dark dark place of isolation, let the Music bring you out of it. Isn't that what it is meant for? Letting the shitty values and actions of our society take away that happiness and love found in a John Lennon song is exactly contrary to the point. Know that you are better than all of it and Love where you are at and what you are doing with your life. I believe that same genius also said that LOVE IS ALL YOU NEED. |
| Zachmozach |
Posted - 04/19/2008 : 1:06:22 PM
Be offended if you want but none is meant. Tab is basically crap. The most important element of music in my opinion is rhythm, especially if you plan on playing with other people. If I go to a gig and I had to hand out tab to a guitar player I'd find someone else because I expect him to be able to read it with the right rhythm. I learn a lot by ear by transcribing things meaning that I get so I can play them and then I write them down using these ingenious little black dots. Tab with rhythm is ok I guess but I would expect someone
serious about music to learn to read. Of course most guitarists are just that, guitarists and not musicians. Like what dan was saying. Ya some great musicians don't read or don't read well, and that's ok if they know a billion tunes at least in jazz and have either perfect pitch or perfect relative pitch. So ya reading isn't the only way to learn but why would you not want to learn it?
I guess like ornette coleman said "all listeners are equal in their opinion" so I'm not going to argue with you about the genius of the beatles or lennon. However I will say I can go on a 30 minute walk and probably encompass 40 guitarists that like the beatles and who music is their life but can't read and don't know theory. I don't know you but I've met so many hack guitarists that they give real guitarists a bad name, and you're basically repeating their mantra.
Music is a thing that is bigger than us both and I'm happy that you like it and enjoy it in whatever way you choose. I think though that because music is bigger than us we can't own it or anything like that. Thus it's not a part of your life. You have to give yourself to it, so that you are a part of it's life. |
| Ranting Thespian |
Posted - 04/19/2008 : 02:47:55 AM
I am sorry, but for me John is a genius, and the Beatles broke so many barriers in music. If you don't believe me, listen to Sargent Pepper's and you will understand. Also, if you ever put down John Lennon in front of me, you better pray I am not in a bad mood. Imagine is pure genius. I am sorry, but Bach and Beethoven couldn't write that song. Imagine is something special, and it is the only music that can completely take away my depression. If I could do it, I'd take a cd and a pair of headphones no matter where, and when I get depressed (I am clinically depressed) I might not need medication.
And fuck you, music is my life! It is the only thing in my life that is pure and good to me. Nothing in my life has proven otherwise. It is what I think about all the time! It is all I really want to do. It is also what I talk about a lot (aside from Tolkien). I used to know how to read sheet music, but that is just one way of reading music, not the only way. Sorry, but tablature is a way of reading music, just the rhythm isn't on there (but it can be applied). Plus, that still doesn't make you a good musician. Reading is just one way of learning. If you want to know, I learn by ear. I can listen to music and know all the rhythm and transcribe the notes onto my guitar. I have also transcribed fingerpicking guitar parts for some classical music. Also, knowing theory doesn't make you a good musician. You could know all the theory in the world, but if you can't really play with your heart and feel the music you play, you are not a true musician.
About John's feelings for their earlier tunes, he liked the tunes but didn't focus on words back then. He wished he could take those old tunes (he loved the tune I Want To Hold Your Hand) and write better lyrics for them.
This is all that I am going to say in this thread because I don't need any more shit right now. But I am still extremely offended by what you said. |
| Zachmozach |
Posted - 04/18/2008 : 8:54:59 PM
That's fine cause I think you said it better and shorter too. I'm too damn long winded. Maybe we think pretty closely cause we both have been in music school and studied music in formal settings that has changed our understanding of quality as it relates to music and playing music. |
| dan p. |
Posted - 04/18/2008 : 2:13:14 PM
i like how zach and i posted basically the same thing. and by that, i mean i am frustrated that he beat me to it. |
| dan p. |
Posted - 04/18/2008 : 2:10:18 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Zachmozach
To think that dave or the beatles didn't know theory is ridiculous. They might not have been classically trained but seriously they got there info one way or the other.
quote:
Originally posted by Ranting Thespian
The Beatles also did not take lessons, other than help from family or friends. They wouldn't know chords. One thing that a lot of people in england did, they would hear that someone knew this chord (let's say Asus4). Someone would go and meet this person, learn the chord, and then come back to show everyone.
oops! reading!
it is an objective fact that knowing theory helps you're playing. no don't argue it. there's nothing to argue. the sky is blue, 4 is greater than 3, and knowing theory helps your playing.
i would posit that not knowing theory doesn't mean you suck, though. you can be capable with physically playing your instrument without knowing theory, but your maximum potential is crippled significantly. there is, however, a line, that separates guitarists from musicians. a guitarist isn't necessarily a musician. a guitarist is someone who knows how to play a guitar. a musician understands music beyond the scope of his instrument and uses that knowledge to get better at playing and writing music. that includes reading music. you can't really be a musician if you can't read the language music is written in. that's like saying, "oh i'm an linguist. but i can't read."
see, the chord thing thespian brought up a fantastic example of how theory makes you a) a musician and b) a better player. someone who doesn't know theory needs to ask someone how to play a chord. someone who does can just use theory to figure it out. not only that, but if you know your fretboard and your theory, you can come with, in no time at all, several different inversions and fingerings for said chord, which opens up more potential songwriting directions.
certain circles, such as the ones zach is a part of and i used to be, will say you suck if you don't know theory, because the fact is all the really good players know theory. gilmour? lennon? matthews? as far as playing instruments, they are middling at best. in school i met dozens of people who could play circles around all of them. they are talented, know their instruments very well and use theory to agument their ability to write and play. i would be ridiculously surprised if tim reynolds did not know any theory in one way or another.
yes, i am calling lennon not a musician. no, i'm not going to back off of it, so save your fanboy rage. he was obviously good at what he did, but a musician? i'm going to have to insist that, no, he was not. it's no big deal, either. hell, i like lots of bands and performers who aren't "musicians." |
| Zachmozach |
Posted - 04/18/2008 : 1:52:38 PM
Your names nick right? Read this.
quote:
although dave matthews or beatles may known have "known theory" in that they couldn't give you music theory jargon for what they're doing, they obviously understand the underlying concepts.
While they may not have formally studied theory they knew what was going on. Basic theory is understanding how one chord relates to another and look at the construction of their tunes. They obviously understood it on some level. However if you're going to put the beatles on some sort of pedestal of being great musicians or something like that I have to disagree. Look, I listen to and more or less like the beatles more towards their later stuff as that early stuff was pop BS for the most part and they thought so themselves from what I remember reading. Same thing with dave matthews more or less.
If you're going to try to think that Brahms is not on a completely different level of musicianship than some pop musicians however good they were/are at what they did then we don't have a basis for a conversation. If you made your living with music nick you would understand that very few people are chosen by record companies to be successful and just because you like their tunes in no way means their level of playing music is good. I get taught fairly complex jazz tunes (at least in comparison to pop music like the beatles) all the time on the bandstand by someone saying like oh you don't know this tune, well it's easy. It's a ii V ii V in c goes up a step and does it again then back to a ii V in C and from there it walks down ii V's to C then the bridge is basically a ii V ii V in F and then in C but you'll hear it and then they wait 5 seconds for my nod and we begin playing. If I didn't know theory and know it on my instrument I couldn't make it through the tune well enough to sound good then I just lost my ability getting gigs with this person. I'd like to see a musician from the beatles hang with kenny werner, or wayne shorter on any of their compositions. That's a whole other level of music and beauty. You can't improvise on wayne shorter tunes without knowing theory. End of story. You need to know theory if you plan on being good! Just like you need to know grammar if you want to be good at a language. Or just like you should know how to read.
And take it easy I don't mean to offend you but drop the whole music is my life bs. Even for people who actually practice 8 hours a day or more who could literally say yes music is my life don't have that attitude that music is their life. Ya they might be completely obsessed and study theory and music in general and practice their ass off but most of them that are like that say things like ya music is a big part of my life but it doesn't define me. Personally the only people who say music is my life that I've ever met are people who like to say things like that but in reality don't care enough to sit around and transcribe stuff for hours to figure it out and practice all day long to then go hear music or play gigs at night. People who say that are usually trying to make a dream world become reality. Maybe not you cause I don't know you but it's been my experience that that's how most people are.
I might sound like a pompus musical elitist, but I'm sick and tired of people like john lennon being proposed as musical genius' even if I do like them while our culture won't even support giving kids enough of a musical education to recognize the true genius of people like wayne shorter, brahms, shostakovich, beethoven, monk, and charles mingus to name a few. So ya I'm saying they suck but not in a bad way, cause I like their music too. Just it's not near as deep or interesting or beautiful well put together as say music by kenny wheeler or dave holland. Good luck though to you and not knowing theory if music is your life though. |
| Ranting Thespian |
Posted - 04/17/2008 : 10:28:12 PM
Oh, and I have a copy of my Guitar One with an interview with David Gilmour. He never knew how to read music, or theory until the late 90s when he took up saxophone with his son. |
| Ranting Thespian |
Posted - 04/17/2008 : 10:25:31 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Zachmozach
To think that dave or the beatles didn't know theory is ridiculous . . . My opinion is that unless you study theory in some form deeply your playing will always suck unless you are one of those people blessed with savant capabilities and understanding of music . . .
First of all, I KNOW the Beatles knew nothing about theory. I am a Beatles and John Lennon expert. I have read countless books, about them, about their recordings, and about their equipment. Paul might know more about theory now, but back in the 60s, he knew nothing. The Beatles also did not take lessons, other than help from family or friends. They wouldn't know chords. One thing that a lot of people in england did, they would hear that someone knew this chord (let's say Asus4). Someone would go and meet this person, learn the chord, and then come back to show everyone. That's how they did it back then. From very early on, they just knew what to do by playing constantly. They understood what they were doing by just doing it so much. They didn't know how to read music, and did not know any theory. John didn't even know how to tune a guitar right until Paul showed him! Plus from an interviews I read, Dave does not know theory as well. He had lessons, but does not know theory.
Also, I do not know theory, so I suck then? MUSIC IS MY LIFE! YOU JUST FUCKING REALLY INSULTED ME RIGHT THERE  ! |
| dan p. |
Posted - 04/17/2008 : 09:24:43 AM
very true. although dave matthews or beatles may known have "known theory" in that they couldn't give you music theory jargon for what they're doing, they obviously understand the underlying concepts. |
| Zachmozach |
Posted - 04/17/2008 : 02:15:59 AM
To think that dave or the beatles didn't know theory is ridiculous. They might not have been classically trained but seriously they got there info one way or the other. A lot of earlier jazz guys looking at it that way would not "know" theory but at the time they were fairly harmonically advanced. My opinion is that unless you study theory in some form deeply your playing will always suck unless you are one of those people blessed with savant capabilities and understanding of music. Especially as an improviser but even as a classical player it helps. Theory is something you need to know if you really want to play well just like if you really want to speak well you should probably study some grammar at some point. I'd love to see someone who didn't know theory try to play on some of wayne shorters harmonically advanced pieces. Good luck.
I was thinking about this yesterday and I totally jumped into playing jazz and getting a degree in school and I feel like I was unprepared coming in. I've worked my ass off and now I'm close to being ahead in some ways. No matter what you do in music you have to give yourself to it though if you want to do it as a career. Do what your heart tells you and you'll be ok though so to speak. |
| dan p. |
Posted - 04/16/2008 : 02:09:24 AM
hm. i honestly don't know all the much about those two fields. i do know that there is a business element to production, but i don't think you'll be to far behind. again, i don't really know. maybe someone else could field this question? |
| EnlightenThis |
Posted - 04/15/2008 : 4:54:49 PM
In other news, Dave/rubylith thanks for the compliment. I try to keep that level head and think about things before making an ass of myself. Thank you everyone again for all of your input, you're all essentially helping shape the path my life will take and for that i'm eternally grateful to all of you. |
| EnlightenThis |
Posted - 04/15/2008 : 4:48:48 PM
Dan i put that in a new thread "where is all the music going"
What are your thoughts on going into say Acoustics or Production? Would I still be leap years behind? I have a feeling that it would be easier to learn stuff like that as opposed to having the physical and mental coordination that years of practicing gives you on the guitar? I guess at this point in my life I feel that music is one of the only things that could unite the entire world, as the entire world has their own versions of music. I feel that I have been pushed in that direction for a reason. I hear things within dave and tim's music that shows to me that there is something greater in this world. The song eh hee especially sang to me. I just know I want to be around the music and help make it because i can hear the music within my head when i hear songs, i hear solos that have never been played before, i hear different songs within the songs that i'm listening to. I'm sure everyone does, as music is a part of the human brain. I can listen to a song and find the scale instantly, granted i dont know the names of the scales just yet, but I'm just so overwhelmed by all of it. Probably a common theme at this point in most everyone's life.
SOMEONE TELL ME WHAT TO DO!!!!!!!! haha only kidding but wouldnt it be so much easier? |
| dan p. |
Posted - 04/15/2008 : 09:29:31 AM
quote:
Originally posted by EnlightenThis
Side note: With musical production capabilities turning into thousands of people at a computer in their homes, where do you feel the direction of music is headed? and on another note, feelings on releasing of albums staying corporate or becoming individual releases? other options? I just feel that the internet has ultimately eliminated the need for labels, turning them into simple marketing tools and jumbly contracts....that could be my love for the untainted music in the world coming through though.
could we get a new thread for this? i feel it deserves it.
and no, knowing all the rules doesn't limit you if you don't let it. knowing all the rules allows you to meaningfully break them. breaking rules you don't know is just ignorance and is doing something just because it feels good. there's a term for that, and generally you don't do it in front of people.
everything zach said is true.
what i meant by background is a history with an instrument. you had a little bit of experience with several instruments. that's good, but in music education you focus on just one instrument and learn others to a lesser degree. but for example, i went into music for guitar. my freshman year i had been playing seriously for 8 years, had taken pick-style lessons for 7 and classical for 2. i had taken music theory 1 and 2 in high school, was in a band, choir, played for my church at the time, and did solo stuff. most people probably came in with more experience than that. so yes, would be behind and at a disadvantage. if you really want the degree, and think you can hack it, go ahead. i wouldn't though. if you just want the personal satisfaction, go the private lessons route. |
| gnome44 |
Posted - 04/14/2008 : 10:22:52 PM
I think theory, on some level, is important. Obviously you can write amazing music without it...but to "play" really well, I think it's necessary. Not knowing theory is like trying to write a novel but not knowing basic grammar, spelling, punctuation, etc.
George Harrison is a good guitarist. John McLaughlin is a GREAT guitarist.
John Lennon is a good pianist. Chick Corea is a GREAT pianist.
Paul McCartney is a good bassist. Stanley Clarke is a GREAT bassist.
Theory isn't needed...but it sure as hell helps. There's only so much you can do by noodling around on an instrument...greater knowledge allows you tap into greater things.
There's a billion contradictions to this fact...but you know what I'm trying to say...
And I would think that Tim is pretty well versed in theory. I remember reading a post about someone who took lessons from Tim...and Tim would make the guy stand across the room while he played various weird chords and made the guy tell him what they were.
But who knows, maybe I'm wrong... |
| Ranting Thespian |
Posted - 04/14/2008 : 8:44:11 PM
I don't think theory is really needed unless you are a real composer when dealing with a huge amount of people. But for some people, it helps.
From what I know, Dave doesn't know theory, I don't think Tim knows theory, and the Beatles didn't know any theory. They learned chord by chord (literally) and played for a HUGE amount of time in Brittan and Hamburg.
So theory is not needed in music, but some people prefer to know it. Me, I don't even know scales, and I write my own music, and I taught myself (after one month of my mom helping me).
One thing that will help, no matter what you learn, where you go, and what you do, just play play play play play! |
| rubylith |
Posted - 04/14/2008 : 8:27:44 PM
Also, it is good to know everything about theory, as long as you don't become a "scientist" and be forced to follow any "rules". The are no rules in art. It's good to keep a good balance between having a soul and head, as with life in general. Practice makes perfect, and theory and advanced theory opens a whole world of playing altogether. Improv is key to keep keen, and listen to lots of Tim Reynolds. Some musicians are assholes, so make sure you surround yourself with positive ones. Network with people, respect musicians always, even if they suck, and let it flow. I was never a book reader, but Hopeful Rolling Waves is. He is amazing with learning that way. Now, I dropped out of high school but I took lessons for 7 years from a great guitarist. Everyones different, but with all these great posts, you'll find what you need I'm sure. And with the internet and youtube, you have way more of a chance of "being seen" and potentially making a career out of it. Congrats on the enlightenment!  |
| rubylith |
Posted - 04/14/2008 : 8:20:59 PM
Enlighten This, I just want to say that I think you're awesome, and you definitely have a good head on your shoulders. |
| Zachmozach |
Posted - 04/14/2008 : 12:48:53 AM
Well according to your brain on music it takes 10,000 hours to master this music thing roughly. I haven't done the math but I hear that comes out to like 8 hours every day for four years. Correct me if I'm wrong which is also 6 hours a day for 6 years or 4 hours a day for 8 years. After you get out of school which is where I'll be in a few years when I get my masters after completing my bachelor's then you have to realize you are now in direct competition with all your teachers and everyone else around to get gigs. So you just spent years practicing a lot (I'm not the hardest practicer in the world and I usually get 5-6 hours in a day) now how do you make a living in music? From a realistic point of view it's pretty messed up these days in comparison to even 20 years ago if you want to play music with substance.
I'm a jazz performance major for bass and I play classically as well and I'm in a pretty hip town for jazz (portland) and still the gigs are low paying and mostly musically unsatisfying. Gigging everday alone in town is not really enough to support yourself well so you have to travel almost. So after years of taking musically unhip gigs you can become a very dark person and a husk of a human being. My point is that you don't do music because you like it or love it. It has to be because you like it or love enough to actually do it.
Not to discourage doing music but figure out what exactly you want to do with it and go after it as hard as you can, but it really has to mean something to you because waking up in the morning to play ridiculously hard etudes and be graded on music and just go through that is a pain. Also in no way means that you will be able to earn a living with music after you get the degree. So music is an awesome hobby and there's no reason you can't play gigs and all that without ever getting a degree, but if you really want to pursue it you have to go all out cause there's too many people doing music now as it is. |
| Ranting Thespian |
Posted - 04/14/2008 : 12:21:10 AM
I just have to say, the day I restrung and played my mom's classical, I knew this was what I wanted to do. Do not let anything stop you! |
| EnlightenThis |
Posted - 04/13/2008 : 10:27:58 PM
what do you mean by a lot of background? I understand that I am behind I guess Im just wondering how far.....
And also, my aim for my education is not to go into a formal musical career. It is simply to gain a more knowledgeable basis for my myself as a musician. and to get the respect of a formal degree because it does have worth, being a degree alone. Do you think that the formal education restricts the mind because of its formality? By that I mean, do you think that learning the "rules" of music limits a person to the values of that particular musical education?
Side note: With musical production capabilities turning into thousands of people at a computer in their homes, where do you feel the direction of music is headed? and on another note, feelings on releasing of albums staying corporate or becoming individual releases? other options? I just feel that the internet has ultimately eliminated the need for labels, turning them into simple marketing tools and jumbly contracts....that could be my love for the untainted music in the world coming through though.
these are definitely heady questions and i can put them into different topics for better responses. Seeing as the beginning of this a background to my personal life and not a topic to entice the masses. also, i have no idea what the do's and donts are for what i should and shouldnt post, and i really don't know anyone who writes on here where i feel a majority of you are well acquainted, so feel free to put me in my place if i go crazy with too many posts. i'm just very excited about it all..... |
| dan p. |
Posted - 04/13/2008 : 8:16:28 PM
i just wanted to give you a clear idea of what being a music major entails. to be honest, what i listed there was just what i had to do for my associate's degree in music performance. the demands for a ba will likely be far more demanding, depending on your school. the trouble is, the only real thing you can do that has a steady income is teach with a music degree. very few people are a) good enough and b) lucky enough to make a living performing on the circuits that a formal music education puts you on (orchestra, recitals, concerts, ect.) for the normal style concerts and performances, you don't need a piece of paper to tell you that you can play.
but if you think you want to and can do it, go for it. it's just that usually music majors tend to have a lot of background and experience with an instrument going into it and clear idea of what they want. |
| EnlightenThis |
Posted - 04/13/2008 : 4:10:02 PM
To answer the questions you have for me.....
my musical background: i played the viola in 4th grade, the clarinet in 6th grade so i could play the sax in 7th and 8th grade. I was in several musicals in high school as well as a 120 member concert choir and a touring 20 person a capella choir, where i learned site reading, hearing notes, etc. i've owned a guitar for about 5 years now and have been actively playing for about a year and a half or so. I play for 3 or 4 hours a day minimum, more if i'm with friends. my good friend just came to the same realization in his life as i have and so we just rented a storage unit to play in. we have an entire fender PA system to practice our live shit, and just acquired Pro Tools for our recording purposes, though that is some dialect of Klingon to me as well. I also just purchased a Takamine G series made of Koa and a Fender American Strat. I figured these would provide me with the basic tools to make something of myself, or at least gain a little understanding in the process.
As for the "being around the music" i realize that the skills are mine to acquire. I think the message i meant to send by that was that Tim, and others who have been a part of music for so long clearly have learned things along the way that shape who they are today. If i could learn from their mistakes and endeavors, then i would be that much more prepared for the things to come, and therefore can build off of the knowledge already learned and add my own after that. There is definitely a right and a wrong way to do certain things. Granted, its up to me, inevitably, to decide which is which for myself, but if someone that has so much experience doing something does something for a reason, then it must have a good basis. I wasn't trying to compare learning how to shine shoes to learning the universal language of music. Could be why nobody pays fifty bucks a pop to watch me shine shoes. But I learned skills and tricks to accomplishing what i want in a pair of shoes from the man who had done it his entire life.
as for taking on the musical education my senior year....Its not my senior year. I am basically a sophomore in standing. I know that i CAN do business but its far to "clear cut" for me. I know that I will be starting over essentially and therefore have that much further to go, but I love it. I went into business because my parents worked 3 jobs to put me through catholic schools because they wanted to. I've seen them struggle financially because of it and so i thought if i could get my accounting degree and ease their worries then I would be happy also. 3 years later i found myself watching tim reynolds play whole lotta love and realized that my parents did what they did because they loved me and wanted me to be happy, not to be repayed. I know that it will be a huge financial decision to start over but from working at a country club where it costs tens of thousands a year just to "belong" I've realized that people are happy and sad regardless of their financial situations. If i end up $400,000 in debt but im doing the things that i love, then my monthly payments will be worth it.
In other news, I've thought about the hardships of the musicians life, and though i know nothing of it first hand it is quite clear to me. The road must be so demanding phsyically so i have begun working out to keep in shape. Being away from loved ones for extended times is a mental pain far greater than any physical pain, but a sacrifice at the same time. The doubters, the media, and everything else. Son of a bitch it's going to be tough. But after all that I've been through in my life, I WILL NOT be defeated. The love inside will not let it happen.
Thank you again for your responses, I am amazed by the fact that through our words alone the genuine love for music and life can be sent to another. Even if spammers try to ruin it all for a few pennies. |
| Hopeful Rolling Waves |
Posted - 04/13/2008 : 11:38:31 AM
I agree with Dan here, as usual. AHAHA
Seriously though, if you think you're gonna pay the bills with a music major, think again. I'd finish up your first degree first, and maybe take a music theory, or intro to piano or guitar class or something to see if you have the knack and the desire.
I felt the same as you did about 6 years ago, so I picked up a guitar, bought some theory books, a few Dave Matthews and Radiohead transcription books, and now I am awesome. AHAHA. Well, not awesome, but most people say they'd kill to be able play like I do (they can, DUH) and the pleasure I have gotten from it has been immeasurable. I have recently started piano which has gotten me reading standard notation. (albeit transcribed before attempting to play with it, sight reading is like learning Klingon still) It's definitely been my sanity.
Not to discourage your school idea, but I think taking up music as a hobby first is the way to go. If you think you know what instrument you'd like to try, I am sure I could offer some references to get you started.
Also, see my fresh Tim tablature posted in the tablature section. If I can do that in a few years time, you certainly can as well. |
| dan p. |
Posted - 04/12/2008 : 10:46:21 PM
i think i'll chime in here.
some things to consider: what musical background do you have? you play any instruments currently? if not, i suggest probably not going into school for a ba in music. you'd be too far behind.
the way you seem to want to learn, "being around the music" is not exactly how any sort of musical education works. you have to play an instrument, and you'll be taking private lessons (which are graded.) people typically practice between 5-8 hours a day for that. there are recitals, too. you'll learn music theory, so there's a lot of studying there. there is also aural skills (ear training and sight singing.) you'll probably, in addition to private lessons, be in an ensemble of some sort. you'll also be taking piano lessons (unless that's your major instrument) as well as learning a lot of other instruments. there's going to be music history and either advanced musicianship or conducting. conducting is harder than anything, anything, i've ever done. so, that's for a ba in music anything, except maybe production. it's a lot different from learning to shine shoes. you don't learn much in music academia by simply "being around the music." there is very little in a formal music education that is subjective, easy, or soft.
basically, being a music major is roughly 8 times more difficult than your current major (yes, it is.) if you don't want to work and practice constantly, literally constantly, outside of eating and sleeping (both largely negotiable) chances are you should stick to your current major and learn an instrument on your own time.
from your post, it sounds like you just want to learn an instrument. that's cool. pick one up if you haven't already, and start taking lessons/teaching yourself. but taking on a musical education going into your senior year? inadvisable. |
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