| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Infant Eyes |
Posted - 04/19/2007 : 02:55:06 AM
First can I just say that this post in no way is meant to downplay or dismiss the horrible tragedy at VA. Now that said I have an observation or two. The media (Dan I said that just for you) and people across the country have jumped on this event and it has had a big effect on everyone's psych. There has been outpouring of empathy for those effected and even money donated as mentioned in other threads. Last I heard there was 30 dead if I recall correctly.
Now as has been reported today was the deadliest day in Iraq since the occupation. 180 people died today. The day that only thirty people die in Iraq for them is actually a good day. How is it that so many people can be enthralled by a shooting to the point where colleges are even issuing statements to students offering counseling, and yet we seem to show so little concern for life as long as it's not happening here?
I realize that our news is probably going to concentrate on our national events more, but why is it that so many people can look at a loss of life here and be in dismay yet we can escape it by an us and them mentality when it happens elsewhere. All I'm saying is beware of the cultural ideologies we have thrust upon us that seems to cause us to think in ways that are dogmatic and so completely encompassed by our cultural trapping that we can not think examine our world in a realistic fashion. |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Arthen |
Posted - 04/21/2007 : 10:33:43 PM
"I like man, not men." -Ralph Waldo Emerson |
| SpaceMonkey |
Posted - 04/21/2007 : 11:32:56 AM
rubylith...you should check out "This Film is Not Yet Rated". It's a cool doc about the MPAA and how a small group of people are making decisons about what the rest of us get to see at the movie theater. They discuss the effects of sex and violence at length. |
| Infant Eyes |
Posted - 04/20/2007 : 9:52:44 PM
As much as I'd like to say it's people that just suck, I can't because there are a lot of good people who don't suck. You know what sucks is the memes that our culture has passed on for thousands of years brought about by competing over resources. However there are people who struggle to move past this and maybe some who have. Banning most anything is dumb, but sometimes necessary in that most people don't complain about the ban on slavery. |
| Robin |
Posted - 04/20/2007 : 8:22:37 PM
As usual I have to agree with Rubylith and HRW. It's all about sensationalism and manipulation. I personally feel like it was news three days ago, now it's just the networks milking the story for all it's worth. If we were a respectful sort we'd have moved on by now, that's how healing begins and is supported. I don't feel it's helpful to revisit the horror,over and over sucking people into the voretx of grief.
I think this is another way to divert people from more pertinent issues, which is of course just my opinion.Peace, Robin |
| dan p. |
Posted - 04/20/2007 : 4:32:30 PM
there are lots of army shooting games. mostly they have a ww2 setting, though. i can't think of a game, off the top of my head, that is set in iraq. it might have been one of the few games set in desert storm. did you stay to see if it was set in iraq or assume it because there was lots of sand?
video games are being more immersive, more stimulating and realistic in their look and sound. this can't be denied. however, i have yet to see one decent study that shows causality, and not just correlation, between playing a violent video game and acting agsressive. i suggest you look to see how and if studies that claim to show causality define aggression for the purposes of the experiment.
the problem is, kids are impressionable. they emulate behavior, be it in a movie or a game, or tv or real life. the responsibility is with the parents to know what types of media their kids consume. it is also the responsibility of retailers not to sell violent games to young kids, or parents who are buying it for their young kid and don't know what the m on the box means. ditto movies. |
| gnome44 |
Posted - 04/20/2007 : 3:46:45 PM
Let me say, though, that I totally agree that posters like that one shouldn't be hanging in a place where children can see it. And that video games are getting a bit over the top. But it still boils down to people.
I'm at work right now with my headphones on listening to TR. If I can't enjoy the beautiful day outside, then there's nothing else that I'd rather be doing than listening to Tim. |
| rubylith |
Posted - 04/20/2007 : 3:42:24 PM
Playing....now...
yea dude you're totally right. People will kill. With or without shitty movies. It was sick seeing that giant poster in a place with kids...all well...they feed them that genetically modified popcorn too so they obviously don't give a fuck.
TR is someone who gives me hope. He is really an outstanding individual who encompasses peace and creativity. I'm going to listen to TR all night now. Thanks dude. |
| gnome44 |
Posted - 04/20/2007 : 3:37:34 PM
quote:
rubylith Posted - 04/20/2007 : 3:28:52 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think the core of the problem is just the media in general.
I think the core of all problems is that people suck. For what reason, I don't know. Original sin? Animalistic tendancies? Who knows.
The point is that people suck and always have sucked. Jack the Ripper didn't play video games. Hitler didn't watch "The Hills Have Eyes." They sucked. And people always will suck.
I do think your theory of everyone playing TR music at the same time is a good one. I'm on board. I'll just play TR 24/7 until everyone else starts playing... |
| rubylith |
Posted - 04/20/2007 : 3:28:52 PM
This happened because people are FUCKING C R A Z Y...same type of mentality that the troops have in Iraq firing at random civillians and the same type of mentality that anyone who kills does.
Take this into consideration for a moment...
I have always opposed the idea of music, movies, or video games being linked to violent tendencies. Something dawned on me however recently. The People vs. John Lennon, was a movie that was BARELY released in any of the mega movie chains like Regal. Instead it was only in smaller mom & pop chains, which is cool becuase I'd rather give them my money anyway, but it sucks because it wasn't seen by as many people...WHY? Could be hundreds of things, contracts, distribution deals, etc....
What I did see at the local Regal was a giant, 25 foot poster for The Hills Have Eyes. The poster...
It was distrubing that this poster was right next to a poster for a children's movie.
Afterwards, I went to the mall (yea I know kill me) and right when you walk in there was a tv with a video game with a gun attached as a controlled. The 7 year old child was playing a game where you are a soldier FIGHTING IN IRAQ trying to kill Suddam Hussein...someone know the title? Anyway, his parents were right behind him watching him slaughter. I said, "gotta teach em' young right?" They looked at me, grabbed the child's arm and left.
Now I grew up on video games, I killed zombies, I raced cars, I fucking did it all. I don't see myself as a violent person (except that one time..) so obviously saying VIDEO GAMES make you crazy is ridiculous.
I think the core of the problem is just the media in general.
M-a-n-i-p-u-l-a-t-i-o-n.
These ultra-realistic games and rapefest movies sure do have a scientific effect on the brain. Luckily most people don't retain the violence nor do they act on it.
I don't know what I'm getting at. I am completely opposed to banning anything. Banning does nothing positive. Sheltering does nothing positive.
I just think it's disturbing that people are fucking obsessed with killing, obsessed with war, obsessed with sitcoms, obsessed with rape, that they even obsess over animated violence. Even The Passion of the Christ is nothing more then an hour and a half snuff film.
People can be twisted, evil people with or without the manipulation of their senses by the media. It sure doesn't help though. Who knows, there are millions of possibilities in every situation, ever second. Life is strange, life is amazing, life is sad.
Bottom line, I think it everyone put on some TR at the same time, all war would be over. Atleast that's what I think. |
| SpaceMonkey |
Posted - 04/20/2007 : 2:56:05 PM
Totally agree dan...you cannot justify killing people at random.
I've thought about this for a week now, and I haven't really allowed myself to watch or read too much about this because sometimes the overexposure can dilute the lesson. In this instance, I see an individual who was neglected by his own family for years. I dont know how you can raise a child and not be mindful of their well-being at a all times.
I can cut the university and the kids some slack. The school had its hands tied somewhat by the law and "what" exactly constitutes a threat and can we really expect 18-20 year old kids to be "vigilent" for anything, let the well-being of one of their own?
I'm uncertain if his parents ever caught wind of any of his problems at VT. Even if they did, obviously his behavior wasn't enough for them to actually do anything! What about his braniac sister at Princeton? It seems like these people really didn't care what he was doing, as long as he wasn't doing anything to them. They exacorbated whatever psychological problem he most definitely had by forcing him to deal with it by himself in his own warped head.
Other family members are saying that they always thought something was wrong with him from a young age and that he never really communicated with anybody. They thought he "might" be autistic. How about you tell the kid's parents, since they obviously have no concept of their own child's psychological well-being, and maybe you'll save yourselves--let alone him--some trouble later: namely, the torture of having to endure 12 years of public education, being ostracized by your peers, and consequently becoming a self-absorbed narcissist with a completely skewed outlook on reality.
So what the hell are his parents thinking?
If the families of the dead students want to sue somebody to feel better, sue the Chos for being GLARINGLY negligent parents! They enabled this kid! Im tired of this bullshit about VT not planning for the inevitable disasters our "post-911 world" throws at us. Fine, give all kids Kevlar vests and we can move on.
Edmund Burke said "The only thing necessary for the triumph [of evil] is for good men to do nothing." I wonder what he would've said to the Chos?
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| dan p. |
Posted - 04/20/2007 : 2:06:22 PM
i agree that the news should also be showing images of what's really happening in iraq. they should do that with every story.
about the guy, well part of reporting the news is reporting why. that makes his "manifesto" or whatever the fuck that was relevent and news worthy. but there's a better approach. i think news media should be more selective about what they air how often they air it. maybe show little bits of it a couple times, but laregly summarize and explain what it said. there's no need to parade this asshole around. it just gives his message the illusion of credence.
i agree with hrw's stance on college students at large. but you know what's worse than all the band things they do? killing people. |
| SpaceMonkey |
Posted - 04/20/2007 : 1:44:42 PM
I just finished reading this article...
http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/pnoonan/
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| Hopeful Rolling Waves |
Posted - 04/19/2007 : 8:19:31 PM
And another thing.
By putting this cotton-mouthed psycho's 'manifesto' all over the air-waves, the media are potentially solidifying some other nutball's ambitions to murder in a self-righteous attempt at martyrdom.
I even agree with some of the kid's sentiments. There are a notable number of college students that are day-student-night-drunkards, many children of privilege, and yes, having to look at these people living and vomiting around you could be easily construed as debaucherous, lecherous, etc.
There is a rift, and this young man fell headfirst into it. There are better ways to get your point across. Live your balls off. |
| Hopeful Rolling Waves |
Posted - 04/19/2007 : 8:07:31 PM
There are highly traumatized kids laying in hospital beds with multiple bullet wounds maybe trying to watch TV as a feeble attempt to take their minds off the atrocity they just witnessed and they've gotten bombarded with this guy's demented glare with guns pointed at the TV all day long? Fuck that. When they start showing the corpses flying in from Iraq on TV...faces, blood, death, REAL FUCKING TERROR...then maybe they won't even consider dignifying a lunatic and further distressing the victim's families. |
| dan p. |
Posted - 04/19/2007 : 3:20:08 PM
it's the job of news media to report when things happen. and if those thing are grim, violent, or otherwise disturbing, then that's how they should be reported. truth first. everything else is secondary. i guess what i'm trying to say is things should be reported how they are, not understated because it offends someone's sensibilities, or amped up and glorified for rating.
that being said, there's no fucking need to replay these images again and again. the events have been reported already. we know what happened, we know how, when, and when it happened. it's time to stop and address the larger issues this brings up. |
| Arthen |
Posted - 04/19/2007 : 2:37:22 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Hopeful Rolling Waves
Funny, MSNBC airs video footage of the killer repeatedly, which students at VA Tech find even more distressing, then immediately, after complaints are made, MSNBC starts reporting that the news is distressing the students further...as they are playing the video that sparked the controversy. It's a disgusting media frenzy. Ratings, ratings, ratings.
Puke!
If something on the big bad TV upsets you, turn it the fuck off. Personally, I want to see the video of the guy for my own reasons, like trying to understand where he was coming from.
The second person shot was the RA in the dormitory who heard the first altercation, so they went out to see what was happening, as we are trained. And whoops, they get killed for just trying to do their job. As an RA that's extremely frightening, and all of us are on our toes now, thinking anyone could go off. We're the first ones running towards some situation in the halls, and we typically don't expect to be shot for it. Watching videos and learning about the kid may help reveal warning signs in other potential incidents, before they get to far. Anyways... |
| Infant Eyes |
Posted - 04/19/2007 : 12:32:53 PM
I guess being desensitized to violence especially abroad makes sense Pam. It's just interesting to me how strong nationalism can be. The tragic poverty that people suffer in Mexico, specifically Tijuana for example are all but ignored by people living a mile away on the other side of a fence. Or if you happened to catch south park last night in our own streets with homeless people.
I hate the fact that news profits from tragedy and from war, and now report on a single story almost 24/7 while still failing to be critical of a huge quagmire in the middle east.
Oh and Pam it's funny you mentioned the weatherman because on Democracy Now yesterday the founder of ZMag was on and talking about them and how they tried to recruit him, but he decided against it and even spoke of Chomsky's advice to him. Interesting interview. |
| PJK |
Posted - 04/19/2007 : 08:32:39 AM
I think it's human nature. People here relate to college campuses, innocent lives taken because it is close to "home."
We as a people have become desensitized to the Iraqi war, although I did think the same thing as you did, Infant Eyes, when I heard the news. I felt the same when our illustrious (sarcasm) president got on TV and said more has to be done in Darfur! duhhhhhh!!!!! He made some foolish statement about "the situation" being serious now! Hello, where has he been the past 5 years?
You could use the same correlation's to compare the Vietnam war with the Iraqi war. Everyone was upset when we hit 2,000 troops killed in Iraq, yet in Vietnam, there were months where 2,000 of our troops were killed.
Not to defend our human emotions, but there is a limit to what the brain can process. If we didn't have the ability to desensitize, we would go insane. What we can do, is look at the situations and do exactly what Infant Eyes did here, compare, contrast, speak up and also look for solutions. We don't need to feel emotional about things in relationship to the degree of horror they represent. In other words, it isn't wrong for people to get more upset by the college shooting than they did about the 180+ Iraqi's being killed by suicide bombers on the same day. Most people, including myself, can relate to the school shootings far more than suicide bombers.
We are very spoiled here in the U.S. A. Yes we had 9-11, but terror has not hit our country in constant waves like it has in other countries, at least not yet. 9-11 is, in some ways, easier to deal with than constant suicide bombers hitting malls, schools, sporting events etc would be.
Another comparison, Cho Seung Hui had feelings not unlike the Weathermen of the 1960's. Both believed in fighting imperialism (which is how they perceived the US) via strategic sabotage. Violence was their solution for change.
I often wonder why so many in today's society are so depressed. Is depression on the rise or is it just more recognized today? Surly our lives for the most part, are much better than those of middle class America from the time of our country's founding through the 1950s and possibly beyond. I think much has to do with the way we have become a "me" generation.
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| Hopeful Rolling Waves |
Posted - 04/19/2007 : 07:48:53 AM
Funny, MSNBC airs video footage of the killer repeatedly, which students at VA Tech find even more distressing, then immediately, after complaints are made, MSNBC starts reporting that the news is distressing the students further...as they are playing the video that sparked the controversy. It's a disgusting media frenzy. Ratings, ratings, ratings.
Puke! |
| Muskrat |
Posted - 04/19/2007 : 06:53:56 AM
I'm not saying this is the right way to think, but the reason this is affecting everyone is simply because this is unexpected.
We're at war. People die in war. When you're going to college, you're not expecting a nut with a .38 to shoot you in the head.
Same reason why 9/11 was such a huge deal compared to other times where more people died. It came out of nowhere. (before someone yells conspiracy, I mean it at least came out of nowhere for the general public)
It's a sad, stupid world we live in, a lot of times. |
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