| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| dan p. |
Posted - 11/01/2006 : 10:45:58 AM
i was watching a scene unfold before me last night, and it really got me thinking about how soft kids are today. i know this sounds like old guy talk, and i'm barely old enough to drink legally, but bear with me on this. i watched the cops pull up next to some kids in a store parking lot. now, this parking lot is surrounded by woods. that's important. he place is surrounded by woods, and the kids are not even 40 feet from them. this isn't like, a huge forest, either. it's just some woods that has paths to different developments. so the cops pull up in their car, and the lights go on. and what do the kids do? they go right to the cops. right fucking to them, and they get their eggs taken away and the cops probably yell at them a little bit. the woods are right there, an easy get away from being busted for having eggs (which is not even a crime, for christ sake.) the cops won't fucking chase them, and they can't take their car, and the kids just so right to the cops. i'm in the store yelling "the woods are right there. RUN." no one i grew up with would have just submitted like that. why are kids so soft? where is their sense of adventure, or mischief? it's really sad. kids today got no spirit. |
| 19 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| dan p. |
Posted - 11/06/2006 : 5:47:30 PM
i do understand that holocaust was the be all end all of terrible things. i tend not to bring up how bad it was, though, unless someone makes a silly comparision. now, if you were to compare some of the genocide in africa to the holocaust, or the extermination of the native americans to the holocaust, or something like that, i'd be right with you. those are fair comparisions. i think i had that argument with you before about what europeans did to native americans being compared to the holocaust. you were right, of course. that's a proper comparision. but this fur coat shit? nah. bush? not really, no.
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| tericee |
Posted - 11/06/2006 : 09:56:57 AM
For what it's worth, what *I* originally meant was that PETA would be outraged at the throwing of eggs. Which I think is supported with what Fluffy thought was a "rebuttle" -- those same PETA people would probably try to save the eggs rather than the drowning man.
Also, I pretty much agree with what Fluffy said above. (Go libertarians!) And I would like to add that I don't think comparison of actions (i.e., paint-throwing on fur coats & defacing of Jewish businesses in the 30's) should automatically be extrapolated to comparison of ideologies (i.e., "People who throw paint on fur coats are Nazis."). |
| Fluffy |
Posted - 11/06/2006 : 02:57:28 AM
I actually didn't feel you aimed it at me personally, I was just trying to explain why I agreed enuf with the author to post it. I someTIMes get the feeling that you think the Nazi's and the holocaust are the WORST thing that has happened in the history of the world. There seems to be nothing worthy of comparison in your eyes. Yes, the actions of PETA might not be worthy, but please remember there are plenty of things worthy of the comparison and there are even things FAR WORSE than the Nazi's and the holocaust. Please don't misunderstand me, the Nazi chapter of our history is horrible but it is a only a small part of history as we know it and alot of sinister horrible things have happened during that history that are comparable to the holocaust. A number of TIMes you have mentioned that you hate it when people compare stuff to the holocaust, Hitler and the Nazi's and I just wanted to say that I agree that willynilly comparisons can be annoying but I want to remind you that there are things worthy of such comparisons. |
| dan p. |
Posted - 11/03/2006 : 8:52:16 PM
i know. it seemed like i was aiming it at you, but i was aiming it at the author. i used your name when talking about the native american thing not because i thought you wrote it, but that you'd probably understand what i was getting at better because it's a topic that means a lot to you. i apologize if it seemed like it was hounding you about something you didn't write. |
| Fluffy |
Posted - 11/03/2006 : 7:32:20 PM
I agree to some degree and remind you, I am not the author of the comparison. |
| dan p. |
Posted - 11/03/2006 : 7:28:35 PM
i also happen to agree with all of those quotes. i'm not saying that it's ok to ruin someone's fur coat, or business, or anything else privately owned. it isn't. ok. what i am saying, however, is that these nazi comparisions are not really in the realm of reason or reality. sure, i suppose at it's most basic, fundamental level there is a similarity. i also concede that any two things can be compared if you reduce and simplify them enough. it just isn't appropriate, and serves no purpose for the sake of putting things in perspective. |
| Fluffy |
Posted - 11/03/2006 : 4:37:42 PM
First, I didn't make it clear originally but I feel I should now, the email I posted was not written by me. It was written by a friend of a friend as a response to an email about PETA and their behavior. I have gone back and "quoted" the email and everything that follows "I wouldn't be to sure..." was written by someone else.
Second, when I read it I thought it was little heavy-handed in it's comparison BUT upon further reflection I see what the author was trying to say. As they pointed out after their heavy-handed analogy that at it's base what they are said was:
quote:
You may protest all you want against practices you dislike, but you do not have the right to destroy the property of others as part of that protest
As a libertarian I completely agree with this. As a libertarian I believe in the following quotes: quote:
A wise and frugal government which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government. – Thomas Jefferson (1801)
quote:
The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg. – Thomas Jefferson (1781)
quote:
There are just two rules of governance in a free society: Mind your own business. Keep your hands to yourself. – P.J. O'Rourke (1993)
To answer you question, no I wouldn't be angry, I might think it was a little insensitive and tends to lessen the severity but again, at it's base, your comparison makes sense. I think you take these comparisons to literally. I think(and hope) that they are meant as nothing more than comparisons to try to help others understand a situation. Maybe someTIMes they can't grasp the concept being brought forth so folks feel then need to compare situations to something dramatic to get their point across. I doubt even the author of the above letter ACTUALLY believes that they are exactly the same. In theory they are. It comes down to destruction of peoples property, whatever that be, a home, a business, your TV, your computer or your fur jacket. The bottom line is it belongs to me and you have no right to destroy my property. I think this is the point of the above analogy. Hopefully we can all agree that that is WRONG.
I don't agree with the KKK and their beliefs and practices but it doesn't give me the right to destroy their property because I disagree. You can use any organization or group of people you don't agree with and "fill in the blank" and it still doesn't give another the right to destroy their property. I think this is whats at the base of above email and I have to agree with that. As much as I love animals and wish no one would ever hurt them or experiment on them I can't agree with some of PETA's approaches to getting their point across because some of their practices infringe upon others rights to live and do what they want. You are more than welcome to tell them they shouldn't wear a fur coat and explain why you believe that, BUT you can't take it upon yourself to destroy their fur coat because you don't agree with them wearing it.
I'll try putting it another way, lets say I believe video games lead to all the violence from youth today so I decide to take it upon myself to smash everyone's computer who plays a violent video game. It's just not right.
So back to your comparison, of the concert ticket compared to the displacement of First Americans, while somewhat insensitive and certainly minimizes the plight of First Americans as does the comparison of the plight of Jews to the destruction of a fur coat, I have to agree with the sentiment. The destruction of property because of ones beliefs should not be condoned at any level, whether it be the destruction of a fur coat or the destruction of someones business. BOTH are wrong.
For the record, the point of the above post was to bring attention to the behavior of PETA in NC that involved the felony charges. In retrospect, maybe I should have left out the authors personal comments and just included the news story but I felt I wanted to offer up the context that that story was given to me in. Just so ya know. |
| dan p. |
Posted - 11/03/2006 : 2:42:28 PM
"Throw [sic] paint on fur coats is the equivalent of throwing paint on Jews and their businesses in Weimar [sic] Germany."
nope. i understand that, for some reason, people still think comparing something they don't like to hilter and nazis is an effective argument tactic. leaving aside for a second the difference between the beginnings of genocide some animal rights asshole throwing paint on your expensive fur coat, consider what other equations are implied in this comparision. it also compares people who wear fur coats to german jews in the 30s and 40s. it compares fur coats to people's private businesses. now, we're all pretty much grown up around here, and most of us at least partially educated, so i'm not going to explain the differences between a fur coat and a business on a practical, financial, or psychological level. you wouldn't compare your fur coat being ruined to say, having everything taken from you, being moved into some shitshack home, and then being shipped off to be starved, tortured and killed, would you? so i guess it's not at all like throwing paint on a jew during the holocaust. it's more like. . .ruining a fur coat.
fluffy, you'll be able to relate to this. imagine i have seats at a concert, and they were expensive. now imagine someone stole my seat and i had to go to a seat that isn't as good. how pleased would you be if i compared my minor inconvience to what the europeans did to the native americans. my guess? you'd be pretty pissed. you'd be right to be angry. there's no comparison. |
| Hopeful Rolling Waves |
Posted - 11/03/2006 : 08:25:55 AM
HAHAHA! |
| Fluffy |
Posted - 11/03/2006 : 04:56:19 AM
quote:
Originally posted by tericee
quote:
Originally posted by enthuTIMsiast
who will think of the chickens?
Yeah, PETA would be outraged!!!
I wouldn't be too sure........
quote:
Here's something that caught my eye. Let me call your attention to the involvement of Ingrid Newkirk of PeTA, who told Dennis Prager that, if faced with the choice between a drowning animal and a drowning human, she'd save the animal. The Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) is an organization which cooperates with PeTA and, which also classifies itself as an "animal rights," rather than an "animal welfare" organization.
Rodney Coronodo, who has run afoul of the law the past few years as an animal rights terrorist, was arrested by the FBI in Tucson, AZ on Wednesday. His arrest stems from demonstrations during an August 2003 "revolution summer" in which he taught a group of activists how to make incendiary devices from ordinary household materials. Coronado offered similar classes to attendees of the "Conference on Organized Resistance" earlier that year at the American University in Washington, D.C. Coronado has already done time in prison for firebombing a research facility at Michigan State University. People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) president, Ingrid Newkirk, "arranged ... days before the MSU arson occurred" for Coronado to send her overnight packages containing stolen documents from inside the lab and a videotape of the arson fire being started. PETA also gave Coronado over $70,000 for his unsuccessful legal defense. Coronado proudly defended his deeds in an interview with the San Diego Union-Tribune in 2005. "You're damn right when you say I've shown people how to make a firebomb," he said. Daniel Dzwilewski, special agent in charge of the San Diego FBI office told reporters: "America will not tolerate terrorists ...whether you were born here or abroad, we will not stand back and allow you to terrorize our communities under the guise of free speech."
As the agent said, bombs are not an expression of free speech, whether it's bombing an abortion clinic, a research lab or an SUV dealer. Adolf Hitler showed what can happen when people tolerate that sort of "free expression." Even violence short of a bombing is unacceptable as free speech. Throw paint on fur coats is the equivalent of throwing paint on Jews and their businesses in Weimar Germany. You may protest all you want against practices you dislike, but you do not have the right to destroy the property of others as part of that protest, in a kind of Kristallnacht, the night in which Nazis systematically destroyed Jewish storefronts to protest Jewish "crimes," which were about as real as the crimes of most of those who disagree with PeTA. Most crimes against animals are handled by animal welfare groups, such as the ASPCA. They do a pretty good job without throwing paint on folks or aid and abetting eco-terrorists.
PETA is headquartered in Norfolk, VA.
The reason I'm responding to this particular email from you is about 10 of her employees arrested several months ago for felony offences in North Carolina that had absolutely nothing to do with animal rights activism. They were arrested for animal cruelty and animal abuse.
It was a big story in the NC and southeastern VA papers but I doubt it made any national news. PETA had contracts with about 10 or 15 county animal shelters with counties in northeastern NC. Under the terms of these contracts, if animals were not adopted out after a certain number of days, PETA would pick them up and bring them back to a no-kill shelter in Norfolk until the animals could be placed. And PETA was being paid by these counties for this service for on-going room and board of these animals until PETA reported them as adopted. Naturally, there was no mention in the news stories about how this would be verified and audited.
However, what was really happening, and this is the really bizzare strange part, is that the people in the vans picking up these animals from the county shelters were actually killing the animals in the van immediately after the pick-ups. The PETA employees were actually strangling the dogs and cats inside the van and spent the day driving from shelter to shelter picking up the animals that had maxed out their time at their respective shelters, they were loaded into the van by the PETA employees, then the animals were killed.
This went on for several months before they were finally apprehended, arrested and charged with multiple felonies here in North Carolina. According to the news stories, the vans were stopping at a single dumpster near a seafood resturant in Elizabeth City in NC late at night and tossing all the dead animals into the dumpster, and these idiots picked the same resturant and the same dumpster to dispose of the dead animals.
After numerous complaints from the owners of the resturant and the company that had the contract to empty the dumpster, the local sheriff's department began staking out the dumpster and after about a month of surveillence, a PETA van pulled up one evening about 11 PM and the people in the van began tossing dead animals into the dumpster and this is how they got caught.
During the investigation, it was learned that all of the animals that PETA was collecting from these shelters in northeastern NC suffered the same fate and about 10 PETA employees driving all the vans that had the contracts with the animal shelters in NC were charged. Naturally, the contracts with PETA were immediately cancelled after the news story broke.
Ingrid has so far escaped being charged with anything as her position was that these were "renegage" employees, but none have been fired and they have been kept on the PETA payroll and PETA is paying for their defense lawyers. And no one has yet explained why PETA was submitting boarding and food and vet bills for all these animals that got killed before they ever made it to PETA's shelter in Norfolk. Hell, no one has even investigated to see if PETA ever had a shelter for these animals in Norfolk.
This is one of the most bizzare news stories I've ever read given PETA's numerous protests at fast food resturants and all the other crazy things they've done to supposedly "help" animals.
As you might imagine, it's been a PR disaster for PETA in the local papers, but it doesn't seem to have received much national press.
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| tericee |
Posted - 11/02/2006 : 04:12:46 AM
quote:
Originally posted by enthuTIMsiast
who will think of the chickens?
Yeah, PETA would be outraged!!! |
| dan p. |
Posted - 11/02/2006 : 12:02:52 AM
hahaha, that thread nails it exactly. i forgot about that.
i did give the kids a speech. it went like this, "now boys, technically speaking i can't sell you these eggs. but if you were to give me money? i'd probably forget." i made decent money, too. asking kids for bribes so they can buy something they're not even prohibited from is awesome. the younger, more crass me of years gone by might have suggested i'm a cashier and selling eggs is my job, and that i should just do that instead of weasling money out of kids. and a part of the current me would have to agree with that. |
| Fluffy |
Posted - 11/01/2006 : 5:45:32 PM
quote:
kids are too soft.
LOL, I think I covered this a little while ago......
http://www.timreynolds.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7074 |
| enthuTIMsiast |
Posted - 11/01/2006 : 5:18:41 PM
who will think of the chickens? |
| PJK |
Posted - 11/01/2006 : 5:03:59 PM
Good for you for your comment about "is there a law forbidding the selling of eggs to minors!" You were right on with that, IMO.
However, if it were me selling them to the kids, I would probably have said something sarcastic like "guess you're planning to make the worlds largest omelet, because I KNOW you guys wouldn't be throwing eggs at peoples cars or houses!" If I knew the kids I would probably go into my "if you're gonna be stupid ya better be tough" lecture, but that's just because I hate to see kids get into trouble and I also hate eggs being thrown at my car.
But again, you were absolutely right, grocers are not resposible for that. I know the same was true for whipped cream cans, etc because of huffing although I think when there was a big problem with that around my area a few years ago, they actually made you ask for the whipped cream cans etc. That was a different story though, because huffing kills.
Kudo's dan!  |
| dan p. |
Posted - 11/01/2006 : 2:56:44 PM
the worst when he came into the store and asked the cashiers (including me, yeah i work at a grocery store wanna fight about it?) if they were selling eggs to kids. i asked if there was a legal age for the purchase of eggs, and if so, why is it that i was never told. he asked me if i knew what they were doing with the eggs, and i told him it's not any of my concern. policing the actions of children is a job for parents and police, not grocers.
is it irresponsible to sell eggs to kids on halloween? yeah i suppose it is, because we all know what kids do with that. but there are other things that come into play. first being that kids are kids. you can police them all you want, they'll still cause trouble. that's part of being a kid. secondly, making sure kids aren't pricks is the job of parents. you may argue that it isn't easy to make sure you kids behave all the time. i agree. but i also don't recall anyone saying parenting was easy, so tough shit if it's hard. that's what you signed up for. |
| Hopeful Rolling Waves |
Posted - 11/01/2006 : 1:15:53 PM
Yah, I know some heads that got sent to Guantanamo Bay for way less than eggs...
Yes, kids are pussies, but I wouldn't wanna get shot at by today's militant police force either. (See recent statistics in SWAT Team use.) |
| Robin |
Posted - 11/01/2006 : 12:05:12 PM
It's all the fear they are force fed to beleive these days, be afraid be very afraid....Peace, Robin |
| tericee |
Posted - 11/01/2006 : 11:10:11 AM
Unless the cop was related to one of them and knew all their names. Then why run since you're going to get it now or get it later.
Or they were soft. |
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