| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Erich |
Posted - 11/23/2004 : 3:58:04 PM
Its long, so I wont copy and paste it here:
http://www.livejournal.com/~erichwanh/18318.html
check out my nifty user icon  Feel free to read the other ramblings if you wish, but just note that i indulge heavily in my own thoughts and you may not be interested in them. |
| 14 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| dan p. |
Posted - 12/04/2004 : 7:07:01 PM
if tolkien were still alive, he'd be giving us more myths than we could even make holidays for.
i think the reason parents tell kids that santa knows when they've been bad or good is because a) it's true. mom and dad are santa, and they know generally. and b) for at least a month kids try not to act like little beasts. with varying results. god doesn't have a beard. he has laser eyes and a robotic arm that shoots donuts. at least my god does. |
| Zachmozach |
Posted - 12/04/2004 : 12:48:59 PM
When I was like five my older siblings told me that santa wasn't real and mom and dad put the presents out there. So I snuck out of my room and stayed in the closet all night to catch them in the act because they lied to me about santa. The only thing that happened though was me falling in to a deep uncomfortable sleep and being woken up by freaked out parents when I wasn't in my bed when everybody else got up. So I didn't get to catch them in the act but I talked to them about it and they tried to get me to make sure I kept the lie going for my little brother.
I think telling kids at anytime that they are being watched at all times is a little scary. I mean same thing goes with god too, but telling a kid that some old dude knows what you're doing at all times is just messed up. I for one was relieved I didn't have some old guy watching everything I did to see if I was good. On a side note why do these old peeping toms always have big white beards like God and Santa? I don't know why people don't just tell their kids that they get them presents and then they can hold it over their head for a year at a time. You know like, "Hey you know who pays for your christmas presents don't you?"
That and christmas, thanksgiving, easter, and all the rest of the holidays have lost all meaning. We need some new myths. |
| PJK |
Posted - 12/04/2004 : 10:58:03 AM
First let me say it is always a pleasure to read everyone's thoughts and Erich and Jay, when you write about topics like this it evokes thought in all of us which is a wonderful thing.
Very quickly my thoughts on Santa. I told my kids about Santa, just as my parents told me and I would do it all over again. Children are wonderful, their minds are so open. Early childhood is one of wonder and joy, exploring life. They are just learning about their world and they don't think on the same wave length as you and I do.
The whole Santa thing is magical for them. Most children learn the truth about Santa all by themselves and if not told early (before 5-6 by the kids at school who had parents who "pushed" truth, it is not a tragic experience nor does it cause them to lack trust in adults.
My children were quite different. My daughter asked me point blank when she was about 5 or 6 about Santa. I told her the truth, after asking some questions to be sure she really wanted to hear the truth. To my surprise she was so relieved! She said she never liked the fact that a stranger came into our house on Christmas! (Go figure) Then she asked what else wasn't real, and I told her the tooth fairy and leprechauns. She then asked, "is that all" and I say yes! Then I remembered the Easter bunny and I said, "Oh, and the Easter Bunny, the Easter bunny isn't real!" Her facial expression dropped and she cried, "the Easter Bunny isn't real?" I told her no and with that the tears began to flow and I felt so bad. Who would think a child would not believe in a human Santa but would believe a 6 foot rabbit comes in our house!
My son believed in Santa, never asked about it but at some point we knew he no longer believed. He didn't tell us, because he thought if he did the presents would end! Smart kid! LOL
For me the honest shock wasn't with Santa, which I knew was separate from religious beliefs we had. The shock was from being told for years about the Nativity to find out as Erich said, that first of all Jesus was born in the spring. Then that the Wisemen didn't come until he was a young child. Yes he was born in a manger, but it was not the magical nativity that is portrayed.
To me that is the biggest lie. It was the first thing that made me question my religion and probably laid out the ground work for my beliefs today. I made sure I told my children when they were old enough to understand that it wasn't exactly the way it is told.
Anyway these are just my thoughts. One more I might add that is not totally on topic (Christmas) but about religion, specifically Christian religions. I am troubled with the way it is effecting our country. I am speaking about the religious right, those that see the world in black and white. They seriously scare me. Our recent election is a great example. There is a fine line between the religious right and fanatics. There is no tolerance. This was highlighted by the gay issues, but believe me, it doesn't stop there. The corellations to Nazi's is astounding. I am not talking about Christians in general, I am speaking only of the religious right.
Very scary IMO. |
| guitarisPIMP |
Posted - 11/29/2004 : 7:34:15 PM
i dont think anyone's surprised that 2000 years of human civilization have morphed a religious holiday into something completely different. i'm more surprised relics like this never die.
just a random thought.. |
| dan p. |
Posted - 11/28/2004 : 12:32:02 PM
i misread. sometimes my eyes move faster than my mind, if you take my meaning. |
| Erich |
Posted - 11/27/2004 : 9:22:19 PM
quote:
Originally posted by dan p.
the only realy difference in opinion here is that he seems to feel that people who don't believe in christ shouldn't be celebrating christmas, whereas i feel that exchanging gifts is a great idea at anytime, and if christmas is one of those times, then that's fine. they can even still call it christmas, because no matter what you call it, it's still the same.
ooooooooh, no wonder!! you didnt actualy read it, did you? *laughs*. Ok, dude, I just cant imagine how you got what you just said from:
quote:
I don't see anything wrong with non religious or non Christian people celebrating a holiday that [...] has an underlying moral message that can be shared by everyone.
the only explicit thing I said was that if you dont believe in god, telling your child about santa (santa, not christmas... santa) is ridiculous.
As for gifts, I just said it shouldnt be manditory, which is sadly what society has brainwashed the average consumer into thinking. You cant deny that. Seriously, I even explicitly stated:
quote:
If you want to include presents in your Christmas celebration, that's your prerogative
My only advice was that it was cheaper after christmas. As for your guitar quartet, though, that has no price, so it doesnt apply.
Please, disagreeing is fine, but if youre going to disagree on major points like that, just make sure i actualy said, or even implied them. |
| dan p. |
Posted - 11/27/2004 : 6:44:02 PM
you'd be right, i wouldn't say that because that's stupid. i don't even recall talking about someone slamming objectifications down my throat. even if i thought he was, which he isn't, i wouldn't say anything because that's pretty all i do anyway. the only realy difference in opinion here is that he seems to feel that people who don't believe in christ shouldn't be celebrating christmas, whereas i feel that exchanging gifts is a great idea at anytime, and if christmas is one of those times, then that's fine. they can even still call it christmas, because no matter what you call it, it's still the same. |
| Jimiforrest |
Posted - 11/27/2004 : 02:51:43 AM
quote:
Originally posted by dan p.
oh i agree. it's a dumb idea to do that when you can just use the money to help directly. why sit there and talk about it when you could just use those same resources to actually do it. but what you do or don't do has a direct bearing on everything about you, in this case and in general. if you spent millions of dollars donating money, then you would have a place saying that whoever the fuck is a jerk for not helping anyone or making a shitty movie that didn't help anything. but the fact is you haven't. maybe you spent your last ten dollars on a porno. i don't care about that. the irony of ben afflack doing whatever ridiculous things he does is not diminished by anything. but you have to think about this: ben afflack hasn't done anything to help the homeless and you're right there with him, not helping. and you know what? i haven't help any homeless people in a great while either. so i don't have any place telling you about it. so now where does that leave us?
Well that is assuming that "you" are part of his audience. And most likely, Erich's frustrations mostly concern people who don't realize certain stigmas such as how fucked up it is to teach Santa to kids. I don't care how hypocritical Erich is to your mind, the real crime is on the people who don't realize and give recognition to the type insight Erich and people like you provide.
And nobody is forcing objectifications down your throat dan, and nobody is trying to convince you either.
You could say that "well you're forcing an objectification down on me by saying nobody is forcing an objectification and that you're trying to convince me by saying nobody is trying to convince you," but seeing as that we both recognize that fact, I think you're smart enough to assume that really nobody was trying to convince you in the first place. |
| dan p. |
Posted - 11/27/2004 : 12:29:59 AM
oh i agree. it's a dumb idea to do that when you can just use the money to help directly. why sit there and talk about it when you could just use those same resources to actually do it. but what you do or don't do has a direct bearing on everything about you, in this case and in general. if you spent millions of dollars donating money, then you would have a place saying that whoever the fuck is a jerk for not helping anyone or making a shitty movie that didn't help anything. but the fact is you haven't. maybe you spent your last ten dollars on a porno. i don't care about that. the irony of ben afflack doing whatever ridiculous things he does is not diminished by anything. but you have to think about this: ben afflack hasn't done anything to help the homeless and you're right there with him, not helping. and you know what? i haven't help any homeless people in a great while either. so i don't have any place telling you about it. so now where does that leave us? |
| Arthen |
Posted - 11/26/2004 : 9:24:38 PM
That icon is fantastic. Where the hell did you get that picture? |
| Erich |
Posted - 11/26/2004 : 4:16:24 PM
quote:
Originally posted by dan p.
the "x" in xmas isn't just an excuse for people to celebrate christmas without christ being invovled. it comes from a letter in the greek alphabet that monks would often use. i don't really recall it's connection to christ. look it up if you like. they've been writing "xmas" for a long time. long before malls.
Yeah, i didnt put that only for that reason, I just wished to have catchy titles. Perhaps i failed, but regardless, its there forthat reason 
quote:
Originally posted by dan p.
and while it is true that so many homeless won't survive christmas, and that ben afflack is in fact a giant tool, i fail to see why you bring it up. what are you doing to help these people that ben afflack isn't doing? and more to the point, what do you do in general to help them? not just on days when we're told to have compassion. if the answer to that is "nothing." then maybe you should just not talk about it, because when it's all said and done, you've not helped, either.
What I do or dont do is regardless, and has no baring on the point either way. The point was the irony involved in having millions of dollars spent preaching to the choir by means of a shitty movie a message that could have been exemplified through better use of that money. Now, tell me, if i spent millions donating money or if i spent my last 10$ on a nudie mag, would that irony change? i'll give you a hint: no.
quote:
Originally posted by dan p.
i don't believe in any specific god or gods myself, and i celebrate christmas. i'm not wrong. if people want to pick a day and give me things, then i'll take it. i'll also pick that same day to give them things right back. it could be in july, and it would mean as much to me. call it what you want, it remains the same. i don't always buy things, though. i'm writing someone a guitar quartet for christmas.
No one said you were wrong about anything, and what youre doing is an example of the spirit of giving, regardless of the day. |
| dan p. |
Posted - 11/25/2004 : 11:28:01 AM
the "x" in xmas isn't just an excuse for people to celebrate christmas without christ being invovled. it comes from a letter in the greek alphabet that monks would often use. i don't really recall it's connection to christ. look it up if you like. they've been writing "xmas" for a long time. long before malls.
and while it is true that so many homeless won't survive christmas, and that ben afflack is in fact a giant tool, i fail to see why you bring it up. what are you doing to help these people that ben afflack isn't doing? and more to the point, what do you do in general to help them? not just on days when we're told to have compassion. if the answer to that is "nothing." then maybe you should just not talk about it, because when it's all said and done, you've not helped, either.
i don't believe in any specific god or gods myself, and i celebrate christmas. i'm not wrong. if people want to pick a day and give me things, then i'll take it. i'll also pick that same day to give them things right back. it could be in july, and it would mean as much to me. call it what you want, it remains the same. i don't always buy things, though. i'm writing someone a guitar quartet for christmas.
i agree with you about santa though. there's just no call for that. |
| Muskrat |
Posted - 11/23/2004 : 10:08:02 PM
I disagree so strongly on this one point I had to bring it up...
Coal is not alive, so it doesn't "live" anywhere.   Merry Christmas. |
| therippa |
Posted - 11/23/2004 : 4:32:55 PM
No, I will not play CRASH!!! |
|
|
