| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Zachmozach |
Posted - 07/31/2004 : 10:13:35 PM
So I thought it would be a good idea to start a thread for the soul purpose of giving people info on the candidates of this election. This thread is not intended to become a political flame war! I simply believe that the media does not do a good job of educating people to choose a leader. So I thought that I would try to give some info on the current candidates that isn't put out in the media in the hopes that this can become a reference for info to people. I'm not going to go into partisan BS either. We should all do our best to just put out info and not push a candidate. Everyone should feel free to post info on the subject or info that pertains to the subject. I'm going to start with bush here but I'm looking to get out all sorts of info on Kerry too so just wait it might take a couple of days. So that said take this thread for what it is and to me it's exposing the douchebags we have running for the leadership of the country. I figure since there is always at least one topic of discussion about politics and the current state of the world that people would find this interesting.
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| 65 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| dan p. |
Posted - 08/15/2004 : 7:05:53 PM
divine right. ah yes. a classic. |
| Zachmozach |
Posted - 08/15/2004 : 6:01:53 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Arthen
I meant that I'd push people into getting rid of the current government, and then I'd quickly ascend to the throne.
Oh ok. If you want to do that just say you've seen god and all that jive and that and take over that way. I think that's the best way to do it. |
| Arthen |
Posted - 08/14/2004 : 9:47:01 PM
I meant that I'd push people into getting rid of the current government, and then I'd quickly ascend to the throne. |
| dan p. |
Posted - 08/14/2004 : 9:16:25 PM
i don't think it's really possible to have this conversation without going too much into it.
about weed. i think what people who want it legal fail to see, and this is illustrates your point on corporations fairly well, is that when it because legal, you're going to see the tobacco companies totally dominating the market, getting their filthy fucking fingers into it and loading it up with addictive drugs. i don't smoke pot, but i think that if you want to smoke weed, go on ahead. who the hell cares? the punishments for marijuana related crimes are absurd, and i don't understand why they enforce it. |
| Zachmozach |
Posted - 08/14/2004 : 9:05:28 PM
I do my best to insult the handicapped Hopefully you know what I meant.
I definitely think that it we are a long ways from an anarhist system and that it would take a cultural revoloution on the individual level. Who knows whether or not we'll make it your guess is as good as mine.
The question about laws protecting the rich is a complex one. However the law protects and supports the banking system in which we pay people for money because not many people have the money to go make purchases of houses or cars up front. It also supports a ridiculous system of property rights. Without getting too into this I think that any in depth study of the consitution will show that the reason it was set up and constructed was for economic control. I believe Zinn talks aobut this in Peoples history unless I'm confusing it with a talk Chomsky gave a while ago.
The opression we suffer from today in some ways isn't as bad as it has been in other times. However the fact that I have to pay rent just to live on earth and am from birth born into economic bondage is to me opression by the rich and those with by those without. For instance I feel like the complete lack of regard for the enviroment is opression. There is a line though as to what is opression and general human suffering. I am one to believe that the people with money and specifically corporations are in direct control of much of the world. They not only control thought but control people through economic bondage. It would be hard to imagine a society without corporations now. I mean we depend on them for so much. Yet they are constantly putting their profits over the people. I would say the goal of the US has been to just keep the people happy enough so they don't revolt. That's why they are killing the education system but slowly and not doing away with it all together. One of my huge issues is that I don't have the right to partake in some marijuana when I want to without fear of being jailed. We won't go into that. So it's not like It's really really bad yet but that's the plan just good enough to not have people really do anything about it. |
| dan p. |
Posted - 08/14/2004 : 8:07:00 PM
nice job on insulting blind people for being closeminded.
greece's democracy existed before the possibilities of different types of rule had been exhausted. in any case, everyone is now so used to the normal types of rule, that i doubt that we'd be able to handle it at all. there'll always be someone to take the lead now.
also, how is it that laws protect the rich? now here i am. i'm not poor, but i'm not extravagantly wealthy. i'm not even rich. i'm your typical middle class guy. and i have laws that protect me from being killed, stolen from, and having my property trespassed on. i have nothing to bitch about on the protection front.
my question to you is how hard are you being oppressed? i don't know about you, but i still say what i want and the only thing i risk is the guy next to me trying to punch me in the mouth. you've said all sorts of mean and applicable things about george bush, and no one's forced you to take them back. when the government starts reading this message board and dragging people off to jail, then maybe i'll agree with you about oppression. |
| Zachmozach |
Posted - 08/14/2004 : 7:12:31 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Arthen
quote:
Someone will always rise to the top.
Hmmmm....maybe it's time that I started pushing people towards anarchy. The blind fools.
Maybe you should actually study up on anarchy before you casually dismiss it and reject it. It doesn't sound like you really know what it's all about. Zinn has written about it, and he wrote a preface to a book Anarchy and Order by Herbert Read. Anarchy isn't about no order but about order just a different order than we're used to. Only a blind man would reject what he doesn't know. |
| Zachmozach |
Posted - 08/14/2004 : 7:05:23 PM
quote:
Originally posted by dan p.
what i find so curious is that you'd think that there'd be a place somewhere where what you say holds true. but, seeing as there isn't, i'd be inclined to think that it is the nature people to have leaders and rulers, seeing everyone has, and has had for so long now, leaders and rulers of one type or another. someone will always rise to the top.
So by your logic before Greece set up a democracy it would have been safe to say that we would never see a government like that simply because it hasn't happened. I agree that there is always someone who tries to rise to the top and that holds true to today. That's really not the point. An anarchist society would not allow themselves to be ruled by anyone. As soon as they are being ruled over by like a king or parliment or whatever they are no longer an anarchy. However usually someone trying to rise to the top is usually opressing people in some way and trying to control them. Men have fought against this constantly from the begining of history. So it wouldn't be that much different from today or yesterday with the opressed fighting the opressers.
Also you might look into some of the native american government structures as well. Some were pretty close to anarchy. The cheifs in many tribes weren't considered to be rulers but more as servants of the people. They also couldn't really tell another man what to do. They were respected enough though that people would work with them. That's not far off from not having a ruler. |
| Zachmozach |
Posted - 08/14/2004 : 6:53:00 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Arthen
I'd be willing to say that, "back in day," as you say, communities would be more willing to hang/shoot those who committed crimes against them.
Ya well people would be punished for sure. Look at regions in the middle east where the punishments are super harsh. Look at middle ages Europe and look at the way they punished people back then. Punishment has never stopped crime and at the best it has detered it. What I'm getting at is that way back before written law you still couldn't go around and do whatever you wanted. |
| dan p. |
Posted - 08/14/2004 : 5:42:48 PM
hahaha. clever. |
| Arthen |
Posted - 08/14/2004 : 4:38:58 PM
quote:
Someone will always rise to the top.
Hmmmm....maybe it's time that I started pushing people towards anarchy. The blind fools. |
| dan p. |
Posted - 08/14/2004 : 4:10:12 PM
what i find so curious is that you'd think that there'd be a place somewhere where what you say holds true. but, seeing as there isn't, i'd be inclined to think that it is the nature people to have leaders and rulers, seeing everyone has, and has had for so long now, leaders and rulers of one type or another. someone will always rise to the top. |
| Arthen |
Posted - 08/14/2004 : 2:47:34 PM
I'd be willing to say that, "back in day," as you say, communities would be more willing to hang/shoot those who committed crimes against them. |
| Zachmozach |
Posted - 08/14/2004 : 2:26:58 PM
First of all that's one of the biggest misconceptions about anarchy. It's not that there is no government it's just a completely different form and structure of government than we're used to. It also has laws just not what we typically use laws as today. It's not about no power structure and chaos it's a different power structure. What people say anarchy is and what actual anarchist thinkers say are two completely different things. Barely anyone alive today has much of an understanding of anarchy. That's why I asked if you'd looked into it much because it's a much different thing then people think it is.
As far as crimes and such go think about back in the day when there weren't any written set of laws and such. Someone steals something from you or has been stealing things from the community of people. That person simply wouldn't be welcome or a part of that community. They wouldn't be allowed to continue doing that. You still have the problem you do today of one group of people taking control of others by force and other subjugation. However now the difference is that our laws protect those in control namely the rich to subjegate people with money. For everyones talk of how bad things would be under anarchy I think they need to in turn look at the systems we have today. What do we have? Nuclear weapons aimed at each other ready to destroy the world and a state of perpetual wars. Then we produce more than enough food for no one to go hungry yet we have problems with starvation in masses. I'm just saying that the current system is not a working system. Then realize that anarchy is not the absence of power but the basic goal is that all power is justifiable. Like a parent would control a kid by holding their hand while crossing the street to keep them from running out into the road and getting run over. I don't believe in the current form of governments power is justifiable. I would assert that we have more chaos now then we would under a true and working form of anarchy. I believe one of the fundamental things wrong with the education of today is it doesn't teach people to play an active role in society and doesn't teach them how to behave. A lot of it also comes from how the society is jacked up to begin with and so it's hard to get people to into a system that is messed up. People can't fit in to something that is wrong and unjust it's hard to teach. That's why myths were invented is to teach people roles in the world and society. We are so messed up on so many levels as to following our role in society. Hopefully more people will read earth ascending and try to figure out where they stand and what role they have in the whole system. |
| dan p. |
Posted - 08/14/2004 : 11:45:55 AM
nope. i think anarchy is stupid as well. yeah great idea. no government and no laws. that'll solve everything. anarchists love the police when their stuff gets stolen. |
| Zachmozach |
Posted - 08/13/2004 : 8:34:10 PM
quote:
Originally posted by dan p.
propaganda from all points of view surround you daily. anything that moves to pursuade is propaganda. don't reject just one because it's more pervasive than the rest.
I might be wrong on this but I always thought that propaganda involved distortion of the truth. You are right that you shouldn't trade one set of propaganda for another. On a side note have you ever looked into or studied anarchy much? You might like what some anarchist thinkers have to say. |
| Arthen |
Posted - 08/13/2004 : 7:14:07 PM
Even a hundred years ago, Theodore Roosevelt one of the most popular and beloved presidents didn't win on a third party ticket. |
| dan p. |
Posted - 08/13/2004 : 5:22:22 PM
propaganda from all points of view surround you daily. anything that moves to pursuade is propaganda. don't reject just one because it's more pervasive than the rest. |
| Zachmozach |
Posted - 08/13/2004 : 4:06:58 PM
Well if more and more people can break away from the propaganda and indoctrination of their respective country we'll be starting. I can't say that your opinions of the future are wrong or anything because your guess is as good as mine. I guess I just have a hope that things will start to get better. Hopefully more people will read earth ascending. |
| CPPJames |
Posted - 08/13/2004 : 3:51:50 PM
This isn't an era for idealists. Take a person of average intelligence in this country right now. If you took everyone in the United States right now and lined them up according to intelligence and took the median person, you'd be shocked at how unintelligent they are. Then realize that half the country is even less intelligent than that person is. It's a disturbing thought. Not to insult people that aren't very intelligent, but they comprise the vast majority of voters...and for them to have any kind of cutting edge thought (with OBVIOUS exceptions before I get blasted <g>), is a big stretch.
You can live pipe dreams of changing the world via the voting booths, but I'd bet my bottom dollar that some serious conflict (nuclear war, etc. etc.) will change the world long before you convince enough people that voting is the way to solve problems.
In my opinion there isn't a person on this planet that possesses all of the appropriate characteristics to run this country. No matter who we vote into office, we're settling for someone unless we completely agree with their ideals. Then the morality bag is opened and it's incredibly difficult, if not impossible, to name a president...or even a person that led a completely moral life. I realize that isn't exactly a requirement...but I like to think of the president (not the current, just in general) as someone for people to look up to...an actual leader. I sure as hell didn't look up to Clinton, don't look up to Bush and Kerry is one of the least admirable people I can think of as well.
I ain't voting. |
| dan p. |
Posted - 08/13/2004 : 12:50:52 PM
that's true, but i'm more than willing to bet all my money, my guitars, my house, my kidneys, my food, and the stuff i steal from work that no matter what, in our life time, we won't see a third party candidate. |
| Zachmozach |
Posted - 08/13/2004 : 11:09:22 AM
quote:
Originally posted by CPPJames
That gets into the whole dilemma of whether a single vote actually matters or not. I'd bet my soul that Ralph Nader won't win this election, so how can I vote for him? I don't agree with him anyway, but even if I did, I'd have trouble voting for him.
If you're going to think of it as if a single vote matters then just vote third party because your vote will not be missed then whoever gets elected you can always say don't blame me I didn't vote for him. Just think though as long as everyone continues this train of thought that no third party candidate will be elected and so you shouldn't vote for them they will never be elected.
Like Tericee said "Other candidates won't ever be viable until people start cutting their ties to the Republicans and Democrats and start voting for SOMEBODY ELSE." |
| Zachmozach |
Posted - 08/13/2004 : 11:05:41 AM
quote:
Originally posted by dan p.
didn't bruce springsteen attempt to write a protest song, only to write it so poorly that it was mistaken for a patriotic song? am i the only one who still finds that endlessly funny?
Ya I believe he did, and I think it's funny too. |
| rubylith |
Posted - 08/13/2004 : 09:43:33 AM
Yea we're screwed, so play music instead |
| CPPJames |
Posted - 08/13/2004 : 08:45:28 AM
That gets into the whole dilemma of whether a single vote actually matters or not. I'd bet my soul that Ralph Nader won't win this election, so how can I vote for him? I don't agree with him anyway, but even if I did, I'd have trouble voting for him. |
| tericee |
Posted - 08/13/2004 : 03:50:40 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Fleabass76[/i]
Seriously though, I'd love it if we could just get one viable presidential candidate that wan't attatched at the balls (or....tubes?) to big corporations.
Other candidates won't ever be viable until people start cutting their ties to the Republicans and Democrats and start voting for SOMEBODY ELSE. Here are three candidates who would LOVE to have your vote this fall:
 R. Nader, Independent M. Peroutka, Constitution Party M. Badnarik, Libertarian Party
You can read all about them at a non-partisan website called "Political Crossfire." (http://www.campaign.politicalcrossfire.com) It has links to editorials and articles about each one. After a quick perusal it didn't *look* partisan. If I find out it is, I'll probably delete this post... |
| dan p. |
Posted - 08/13/2004 : 01:51:06 AM
didn't bruce springsteen attempt to write a protest song, only to write it so poorly that it was mistaken for a patriotic song? am i the only one who still finds that endlessly funny? |
| Fleabass76 |
Posted - 08/12/2004 : 6:47:30 PM
http://www.darkknightbobwow.plus.com/Video/Politics/ultima%20bushism%20knights%20of%20the%20round.avi
http://www.majorityreportradio.com/weblog/archives/Bush%20-%20Tribal%20Sovereignty.mp3
http://www.whitehousewest.com (will ferrel) |
| Zachmozach |
Posted - 08/12/2004 : 6:38:26 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Fleabass76
Seriously though, I'd love it if we could just get one viable presidential candidate that wan't attatched at the balls (or....tubes?) to big corporations.
Me too. |
| Fleabass76 |
Posted - 08/12/2004 : 6:27:38 PM
Lets not forget, Heinz Ketchup has a direct contract with the US Military as their sole Ketchup provider. Why isn't Kerry taking the troops out of Iraq? I'll tell you why, if Kerry is elected, there will be more wars, but not for oil, for KETCHUP!! (DUN DUN DUN)
Seriously though, I'd love it if we could just get one viable presidential candidate that wan't attatched at the balls (or....tubes?) to big corporations.
|
| Arthen |
Posted - 08/12/2004 : 6:11:09 PM
I love Ted Nugent. |
| CPPJames |
Posted - 08/11/2004 : 1:59:43 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Muskrat
Kudos to Uncle Ted
As odd of a person as he is, and despite his pretty far right mentality, I love reading the things he has to say. Some I completely agree with, others are a bit of a stretch, but at least he calls it like he sees it. |
| Muskrat |
Posted - 08/11/2004 : 1:19:05 PM
quote:
DEATH PENALTY
Oppose federal and/or state death penalty (except for innocent
unborn children -- see above)
Kudos to Uncle Ted |
| Zachmozach |
Posted - 08/05/2004 : 3:19:25 PM
http://media1.streamtoyou.com/rnc/080304v1.wmv
|
| Zachmozach |
Posted - 08/05/2004 : 1:41:17 PM
About all this lying stuff and whether or not he lied:
"The White House propaganda blitz was launched on September 7, 2002, at a Camp David press conference. British Prime Minister Tony Blair stood side by side with his co-conspirator, President George W. Bush. Together, they declared that evidence from a report published by the UN International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) showed that Iraq was "six months away" from building nuclear weapons.
"I don't know what more evidence we need," crowed Bush.
Actually, any evidence would help-there was no such IAEA report. But at the time, few mainstream American journalists questioned the leaders' outright lies. Instead, the following day, "evidence" popped up in the Sunday New York Times under the twin byline of Michael Gordon and Judith Miller. "More than a decade after Saddam Hussein agreed to give up weapons of mass destruction," they stated with authority, "Iraq has stepped up its quest for nuclear weapons and has embarked on a worldwide hunt for materials to make an atomic bomb, Bush administration officials said today." ...
The Bush administration knew just what to do with the story they had fed to Gordon and Miller. The day The Times story ran, Vice President Dick Cheney made the rounds on the Sunday talk shows to advance the administration's bogus claims. On NBC's Meet the Press, Cheney declared that Iraq had purchased aluminum tubes to make enriched uranium. It didn't matter that the IAEA refuted the charge both before and after it was made. But Cheney didn't want viewers just to take his word for it. "There's a story in The New York Times this morning," he said smugly. "And I want to attribute The Times."
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/05/26/1610213
So they cited a report that didn't exist. So I guess if they had been told that such a repot existed and then just repeated it they weren't trying to decieve anyone. I don't know what's worse though, lying to everyone and purposefully decieving or being so inept and incompitent that you go around stating false charges that propel a country into war. Whether they knew they were lying or not they weren't speaking the truth and now how many people have paid for it? |
| PJK |
Posted - 08/05/2004 : 1:31:55 PM
Here is an article, it's a long one Macht so maybe you won't want to read it, from todays New York Times from Bruce Springsteen. Just throwing this out because I found it interesting, no other reason.
August 5, 2004
OP-ED CONTRIBUTOR
Chords for Change
By BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN
A nation's artists and musicians have a particular place in its social and political life. Over the years I've tried to think long and hard about what it means to be American: about the distinctive identity and position we have in the world, and how that position is best carried. I've tried to write songs that speak to our pride and criticize our failures.
These questions are at the heart of this election: who we are, what we stand for, why we fight. Personally, for the last 25 years I have always stayed one step away from partisan politics. Instead, I have been partisan about a set of ideals: economic justice, civil rights, a humane foreign policy, freedom and a decent life for all of our citizens. This year, however, for many of us the stakes have risen too high to sit this election out.
Through my work, I've always tried to ask hard questions. Why is it that the wealthiest nation in the world finds it so hard to keep its promise and faith with its weakest citizens? Why do we continue to find it so difficult to see beyond the veil of race? How do we conduct ourselves during difficult times without killing the things we hold dear? Why does the fulfillment of our promise as a people always seem to be just within grasp yet forever out of reach?
I don't think John Kerry and John Edwards have all the answers. I do believe they are sincerely interested in asking the right questions and working their way toward honest solutions. They understand that we need an administration that places a priority on fairness, curiosity, openness, humility, concern for all America's citizens, courage and faith.
People have different notions of these values, and they live them out in different ways. I've tried to sing about some of them in my songs. But I have my own ideas about what they mean, too. That is why I plan to join with many fellow artists, including the Dave Matthews Band, Pearl Jam, R.E.M., the Dixie Chicks, Jurassic 5, James Taylor and Jackson Browne, in touring the country this October. We will be performing under the umbrella of a new group called Vote for Change. Our goal is to change the direction of the government and change the current administration come November.
Like many others, in the aftermath of 9/11, I felt the country's unity. I don't remember anything quite like it. I supported the decision to enter Afghanistan and I hoped that the seriousness of the times would bring forth strength, humility and wisdom in our leaders. Instead, we dived headlong into an unnecessary war in Iraq, offering up the lives of our young men and women under circumstances that are now discredited. We ran record deficits, while simultaneously cutting and squeezing services like afterschool programs. We granted tax cuts to the richest 1 percent (corporate bigwigs, well-to-do guitar players), increasing the division of wealth that threatens to destroy our social contract with one another and render mute the promise of "one nation indivisible."
It is through the truthful exercising of the best of human qualities - respect for others, honesty about ourselves, faith in our ideals - that we come to life in God's eyes. It is how our soul, as a nation and as individuals, is revealed. Our American government has strayed too far from American values. It is time to move forward. The country we carry in our hearts is waiting.
Bruce Springsteen is a writer and performer.
|
| dan p. |
Posted - 08/05/2004 : 10:04:10 AM
hahah. what bush doesn't want you to know. haha. things like that always kill me. "this is what the government doesn't want you to know." if george bush or the government really didn't want you to know something, you wouldn't. and i think most of the time you don't anyway. |
| Arthen |
Posted - 08/04/2004 : 9:13:01 PM
Give me proof that they would've said "anything" to get America into Iraq. |
| Zachmozach |
Posted - 08/04/2004 : 6:03:08 PM
JOHN KERRY (D)
Top Contributors
University of California
$363,175
Harvard University
$235,035
Goldman Sachs
$209,750
Skadden, Arps et al
$203,477
Time Warner
$200,589
Citigroup Inc
$186,606
UBS Americas
$172,800
Robins, Kaplan et al
$162,250
Piper Rudnick LLP
$138,403
Microsoft Corp
$133,543
US Government
$130,214
Morgan Stanley
$124,279
Viacom Inc
$123,396
Bank of America
$121,802
JP Morgan Chase & Co
$115,151
Stanford University
$113,095
University of Michigan
$110,838
IBM Corp
$109,590
Mintz, Levin et al
$108,301
Columbia University
$107,683
So let's take a look at some of the top donors. Starting with Skadden. Skadden is the top ranked law firm in two inaugural National Law surveys, "Who Defends Corporate America," and "Who Defends Financial America."
Law.com had this to say, "More than many Washington-based firms, Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom felt the contraction in big-ticket M&A work out of New York -- normally a fat pipeline of profit for the firm's equity partners.
But while that high-end Wall Street work thinned for Skadden and its competitors among the elite New York firms, the 1,600-lawyer goliath enjoyed robust demand for its litigation and bankruptcy practices. Skadden's local litigation celebrity Robert Bennett may have snagged one of the firm's most high-profile matters last year, when he was retained by the Enron Corp. to advise the company as it staggered into bankruptcy and a maelstrom of congressional and criminal investigations."
Wheras boardmember.com had this to say,"Skadden, Arps, for example, which heads our national list, is not only a master of mergers and acquisitions, but has done milestone work in lease financing and has handled privatization of companies owned by the governments of more than 40 nations, including China, Russia, Malaysia, Finland, and the U.S."
With Iraq being opened up to foreign investment and thus the privitization of it's companies, I would guess Skaden has special interests in US foreign policy especially Iraq.
Then Warner Lambert a company recently represented by Skadden has been in trouble lately as well. "Warner-Lambert paid dozens of doctors tens of thousands of dollars each to speak to other physicians about how Neurontin, an epilepsy drug, could be prescribed for more than a dozen other medical uses that had not been approved by the Food and Drug Administration. The top speaker for Neurontin, Dr. B. J. Wilder, a former professor of neurology at the University of Florida, received more than $300,000 for speeches given from 1994 to 1997, according to a court filing. Six other doctors, including some from top medical schools, received more than $100,000 each." Warner Lambert was represented by Skadden in it's merge with Pfizer another pharmecutical company with shady business practices.
Now on to Time Warner. denounce.com jokingly titled an article last year "AOL TIME WARNER TO DROP "AOL," "TIME," AND "-NER" FROM COMPANY NAME
New Name Reflects Both Current State of World and Company's Primary Source of Profits" The title would be fitting considering, "CNN, the company's successful cable news operation, has profited enormously in the past 18 months from the Iraq War. CNN is now viewed as a more strategic asset to the company than America Online, the shrinking internet company that is losing members faster than the trashcans of the nation can fill up with AOL CD-ROMs."
According to cfo.com Time Warner "A company beset by accounting problems, by any other name, is still, well, under investigation." Yet another company under investigation with ties to a presidential candidate (Bush the other with ties to Enron).
Now on to Citigroup. citigroup.com tells us how citigroup is organized. "Citigroup is largely organized into five groups: Citigroup Global Consumer Group, the Global Corporate and Investment Banking Group, Citigroup Global Investment Management, Citigroup International, and Smith Barney." Smith Barney is especially interesting. "Smith Barney is the global private wealth management and equity research unit of Citigroup." Not a bad ally for a candidate worth $600 million.
Citigroup is also tied in with Enron. In fact the Securities Exchange Commision made these findings; "Citigroup assisted two Houston-based energy companies, Enron Corp. ("Enron") and Dynegy Inc. ("Dynegy"), in enhancing artificially their financial presentations through a series of complex structured transactions whose purpose and effect, among other things, was to allow those companies to report proceeds of financings as cash from operating activities on their statements of cash flows."
Also related to Enron and Citigroup is Kerry's wife. "she (Teresa Heinz Kerry) heads up the Heinz Environmental Defense Fund. The fund's most prominent board members since 1995 is none other than Enron's Ken Lay. Enron's bank, Citigroup, has been a major contributor to Kerry's various campaigns. In 1995, Kerry cast the deciding vote to override Clinton's veto of the very bill used by Enron and Citigroup to conduct their now well-known consumer rip-offs."
Now on to Goldman Sachs. Yet another company connected to Enron. I'm starting to see a pattern. bizjournals.com reports "Enron North America Corp. wants to recover $45 million and other unspecified damages from Goldman Sachs Group Inc., according to the company's quarterly report filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission on Friday. The move to collect damages is in connection with the early termination in late 2001 of an agreement for the trading of over-the-counter derivatives between Enron North America and Goldman Sachs Capital Markets L.P."
Goldman Sachs should also be included on the long list of war profiteers. According to the LA Times "The Times reported that Perle (pentagon advisor) attended a Defense Intelligence Agency briefing in February and three weeks later participated in a Goldman Sachs conference call in which he advised investors in a talk titled "Implications of an Imminent War: Iraq Now, North Korea Next?"
So without even getting out of the top ten in Kerry's campaign contributors we already see a pattern of corporate greed and all sorts of illeagal activity and connections upon connections. If Bush is any indication to how presidents repay those that got them into office, everyone voting Kerry should be very concerned. If these corporations are for him who is he for?
Sources (besides those pointed to above):
http://www.1800lawinfo.com/practice/news.htm?story_id=6027&topic=Qui%20Tam
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/la-frul_citibank%2C0%2C4862544.framedurl
http://www.federalobserver.com/archive.php?aid=5803
http://www.opensecrets.org/presidential/contrib.asp?id=N00000245&cycle=2004 |
| therippa |
Posted - 08/04/2004 : 4:05:47 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Arthen
I wasn't excusing anything, I was just making the point that lying is a matter of intent.
Bush and his team would have said anything to convince us that we needed to invade Iraq. |
| Arthen |
Posted - 08/04/2004 : 3:26:25 PM
I wasn't excusing anything, I was just making the point that lying is a matter of intent. |
| PJK |
Posted - 08/04/2004 : 2:52:17 PM
I guess many of you DIDN'T read "War on Iraq, what team Bush dosen't want you to know" (Small book-fast read)
I don't think there is any excuse for "poor intelligence" and my gut feeling says the Bush camp is working the "Blame game." And to think I registered Republican......what was I thinking? Got to do something about that.
|
| rubylith |
Posted - 08/04/2004 : 09:27:54 AM
wowee sure is sad theres a thousand kid troopers dead because of "bad intelligence"...not to mention 10 thousand iraqis...
they all messed up and they are all to blame, no is fired for this?
What if I worked for you, and "accidently" killed one thousand of your co-workers, and "accidently" killed 10 thousand of our costumers. Sure it was an honest mistake...do I get fired? |
| Arthen |
Posted - 08/04/2004 : 12:40:39 AM
You can't say "lied" when talking about WMDs anymore. EVERY probe and investigation has shown that all the intelligence communities reported that WMDs were in Iraq. If I give you a report that says my friend Joe has ten dollars, and you tell someone that he does, but later it turns out that the report is false, you did not lie. |
| SandyCarl |
Posted - 08/03/2004 : 6:16:29 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Zachmozach
I'm glad you know my intentions too and you can read exactly what I'm trying to do too.
I also am glad. |
| Zachmozach |
Posted - 08/03/2004 : 4:28:56 PM
quote:
Originally posted by CPPJames
The one thing I don't understand is how everyone says this war is about oil. If it's about oil...why haven't we seen a dramatic decrease in gas prices? Why haven't they created massive refineries? Why did they turn the government over to the Iraqi people relatively quickly?
I'm not saying I fully support the war...I'm just saying that if we wanted to screw Iraq and get oil, all we'd have to do is tap Alaska's reserves for a couple years and not spend a cent over there. Alaska has more than enough oil reserves to support our entire country for a few years...we could easily starve them. Without us they'd be screwed. If we wanted to stick it to them, there's better ways than starting a war.
I just wish, for once that people could see the good instead of focusing on the bad. You don't just set up a democracy and all of a sudden people are dancing in the streets and Jesus comes down and gives everyone a big hug. Things take time...it's like people that have been in jail for years and years that can't "make it" on the outside once they're released. It's so foreign to them that they can't handle it. That doesn't make freedom bad.
And the whole argument about "Where are the weapons of mass destruction?!". Who cares. It wasn't our job to find them, it was his job to prove that he didn't have them. People think UN inspectors walk around buildings saying "can we look in there? Do you have weapons under that thing? How about under that!?". UN Inspectors were put there to assess/verify that weapons were destroyed in accordance with treaties.
The true ridiculousness will begin when some terrorist does something of truly awful and epic proportion...like destroying a city. I can't wait for those same people that have torn this war apart to start crying "Why didn't we do anything?!?!?". And you KNOW it will happen.
Once again, I won't be voting in the election...as I don't think I've seen a candidate worthy of my vote. I also don't fully support the war on a moral level. At some points however, I do find myself thinking "What the hell else could we possibly do? Let them fly planes into us until we're all dead?". Then there's the "Well that's Osama and Afghanistan, not Iraq!" argument. Evil is evil.
First of all this war wasn't all about oil, but to say that this war wasn't about oil because gas prices haven't dropped is ridiculous. First of all we were getting oil from Iraq before hand if you recall the food for oil sanctions we had on Iraq. However Iraq is not our main source of oil. Then if you think we turned the government over to the Iraqi people you are confused. The US appointed a government or congress to make a constitution. The Iraqi people were denied the right to vote for who they wanted despite protests upon protests. So the US appointed US friendly people who would do what we wanted with the country.
If you want to talk about screwing them out of oil look at the history of Iraq from the British occupation to the present. Every world power has been screwing Iraq out of oil since oil became important to the world. Have you looked at the sanctions we put on Iraq at all? That was sticking it to them. Trust me the sactions were sticking it to them just fine. I personally think that setting up 14 military bases in an oil rich portion of the world has a lot to do with this war, but it's easy for anyone with half a brain to see that our major intrests in the middle east is oil. In fact it's a major interest to everyone since it plays such a key role in the world economy.
Then you start talking about how democracy takes time but there hasn't been a democracy established yet. I'm sorry but there hasn't even been a vote by the people. You're talking about focusing on the bad but there's not really much else to focus on. There isn't all that much good going on. The US pre-emptively declared a war on a country stating false claims of WMD's. Then the US bombed the hell out of that country and implemented a government of our choosing that set up things the way we wanted them to. Then the US declared the entire country open for foreign investment so that the rich could go in and capitalize on the country and profiteer on the war. It's not that I or anyone stating this stuff is focusing on the negitive it's just that that's the way things are.
Then you start in on the who cares that we were lied to and that there haven't been WMD's found. Then ah yes he had to prove that he didn't have them which is impossible. That is why the burden of proof rests upon the state in the justice system. I mean you can only look in a few places at a time and who's to say that they are not moving them. So they really had no chance of proving that they had none. So basically you don't care that our government has reserved the right to act against the will of the rest of the world and pre-emptively strike another country without evidence, and institute a regime change simply because we find it unfit? Did you know that the day of the 9/11 attacks Rumsfield was talking about invading Iraq? It's against international law to pre-emptively strike and I have no idea why you think that it's ok for us to go around and take over other countries and put in a new government against the will of the people of that country.
Then Iraq had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks. So yes this war had nothing to do with 9/11. If it did please enlighten me. So how is this war stopping terror from happening. In fact every thing I've read by political scientists and scholars in the field has said that it will actually lead to an increase in terrorism. The only way you are ever going to get rid of terrorism would be to adress the reasons why terrorists are attacking. Like for instance why is Osama hell bent on destroying the US? It doesn't seem to me that it's because they hate our freedom and all that jive BS. Why would he have done so much business with the US through the 80's and 90's if he hated our freedoms so much? It's been pointed out that the reasons for the attacks have been our outstanding support to Isreal and almost none for Palestine. Then the military throughout the world including the presence so close to Mecca. Then there is the US's support of brutal dictatorships (such as 80's saddam) throughout the world because they do what we want economically. So until you adress those concerns and try to foster enviroments that do not promote terrorism. You are right when you say people are going to ask why didn't we do something. That's because this so called war on terror is a bunch of Jive BS that isn't working. Look at what's going on in Afghanistan. Many reports have terrorism increasing there and not to mention the drug trade is back, and the country has been utterly devastated yet again (not that it has really ever been pulled out of the devastation).
So evil is evil whether you like it or not we are just as much participants in it as Saddam or Osama. So my question to you is; If we aren't interested in oil and having military bases and a friendly government in an oil rich part of the world then why did we go there? Was it to get the WMD's that we haven't found and in fact the government lied about in the first place? Was it to get rid of Saddam who we supported through some of the worst attrocities he committed? Why is the US all of the sudden concerned about liberating people (which Iraq has not been liberated just a change of power) when the US ignored East Timor and even Iraq when Saddam was slaughtering people? Why after 15 years are we only now doing something about his crimes? Why is it a bigger deal now than before? Why have we refused elections again and again when we are setting up a democracy? Why have we continually acted against the will of the majority of people in Iraq in their name?
Anyway I've spent way too much time on this because I should have been researching other candidates so I can post info so Sandy Carl doesn't freak out. |
| Zachmozach |
Posted - 08/03/2004 : 3:27:42 PM
quote:
Originally posted by SandyCarl
Yes I know what you initially wrote, and I waited a couple of days for information about the other candidates. You said you'd provide it, but really you just want to talk bad about the President of the United States of America.
Thank you for helping me decide who to vote for.
Ok I haven't had time to get anything else up hopefully by tommorow or the next day I'll have some up on Kerry. Definitely this weekend though. Hopefully you can wait till then. I'm glad you know my intentions too and you can read exactly what I'm trying to do too. |
| rubylith |
Posted - 08/03/2004 : 09:09:02 AM
no,
that would be nice...
im just gonna ignore it until there is a full on police state or something and I can't look away anymore. But atleast then I will already understand and I can act quickly, instead of it all being a shock at once... |
| Arthen |
Posted - 08/02/2004 : 9:37:00 PM
Do you have any feasible solutions to the problems Dave C.? |
| CPPJames |
Posted - 08/02/2004 : 6:46:11 PM
quote:
Originally posted by dan p.
are you going to site your sources for your last 3 postspost, or should we just ignore them?
george bush would have you believe he doesn't eat babies, but has never gone on record saying he doesn't. maybe he's too busy eating babies.
LOL, if something doesn't specifically cite a source, I don't even bother reading it.
The one thing I don't understand is how everyone says this war is about oil. If it's about oil...why haven't we seen a dramatic decrease in gas prices? Why haven't they created massive refineries? Why did they turn the government over to the Iraqi people relatively quickly?
I'm not saying I fully support the war...I'm just saying that if we wanted to screw Iraq and get oil, all we'd have to do is tap Alaska's reserves for a couple years and not spend a cent over there. Alaska has more than enough oil reserves to support our entire country for a few years...we could easily starve them. Without us they'd be screwed. If we wanted to stick it to them, there's better ways than starting a war.
I just wish, for once that people could see the good instead of focusing on the bad. You don't just set up a democracy and all of a sudden people are dancing in the streets and Jesus comes down and gives everyone a big hug. Things take time...it's like people that have been in jail for years and years that can't "make it" on the outside once they're released. It's so foreign to them that they can't handle it. That doesn't make freedom bad.
And the whole argument about "Where are the weapons of mass destruction?!". Who cares. It wasn't our job to find them, it was his job to prove that he didn't have them. People think UN inspectors walk around buildings saying "can we look in there? Do you have weapons under that thing? How about under that!?". UN Inspectors were put there to assess/verify that weapons were destroyed in accordance with treaties.
The true ridiculousness will begin when some terrorist does something of truly awful and epic proportion...like destroying a city. I can't wait for those same people that have torn this war apart to start crying "Why didn't we do anything?!?!?". And you KNOW it will happen.
Once again, I won't be voting in the election...as I don't think I've seen a candidate worthy of my vote. I also don't fully support the war on a moral level. At some points however, I do find myself thinking "What the hell else could we possibly do? Let them fly planes into us until we're all dead?". Then there's the "Well that's Osama and Afghanistan, not Iraq!" argument. Evil is evil. |
| rubylith |
Posted - 08/02/2004 : 4:51:01 PM
yea bush sure is shady...
it doesn't matter though, both parties are run by the same shadow government.
its all skull and bones...and we are force to watch our country continue to take away our freedoms because someone fucked up and let osama handle sept 11th form a cave thousands of miles away.
kinda strange that everyone still buys that story if you ask me...
but why was the debris buried in another country?
what the hell is going on!???!?!??
and why are people too dense to accept Kucinich as the democratic nominee, he is the only one that speaks from his heart, isnt a multi=billionaire, and isnt a compelete douchbag. he is real, he should be president, but that wouldn't be that good for the corporations/big media that run this country......why do we constantly do this to ourselves?
wake up fat america!
its easier to see the neglect the average american does physical excersise then how often they excersise their brain...I guess we will find out who actually does any mind excersise when the election is over...
this is a lose lose situtation... |
| therippa |
Posted - 08/02/2004 : 1:50:13 PM
And here's the dirt on Bush...
George W. Bush Resume
Past work experience:
* Ran for congress and lost.
* Produced a Hollywood slasher B movie.
* Bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas, company went bankrupt shortly after I sold all my stock.
* Bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that took land using tax-payer money. Biggest move: Traded Sammy Sosa to the Chicago White Sox.
* With fathers help (and his name) was elected Governor of Texas.
* Accomplishments: Changed pollution laws for power and oil companies and made Texas the most polluted state in the Union. Replaced Los Angeles with Houston as the most smog ridden city in America. Cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas government to the tune of billions in borrowed money. Set record for most executions by any Governor in American history.
* Became president after losing the popular vote by over 500,000 votes, with the help of my fathers appointments to the Supreme Court.
Accomplishments as president:
* Attacked and took over two countries.
* Spent the surplus and bankrupted the treasury.
* Shattered record for biggest annual deficit in history.
* Set economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12 month period.
* Set all-time record for biggest drop in the history of the stock market.
* First president in decades to execute a federal prisoner.
* First president in US history to enter office with a criminal record.
* First year in office set the all-time record for most days on vacation by any president in US history.
* After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, presided over the worst security failure in US history.
* Set the record for most campaign fund-raising trips than any other president in US history.
* In my first two years in office over 2 million Americans lost their job.
* Cut unemployment benefits for more out of work Americans than any president in US history.
* Set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12 month period.
* Appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in US history.
* Set the record for the least amount of press conferences than any president since the advent of television.
* Signed more laws and executive orders amending the Constitution than any president in US history.
* Presided over the biggest energy crises in US history and refused to intervene when corruption was revealed.
* Presided over the highest gasoline prices in US history and refused to use the national reserves as past presidents have.
* Cut healthcare benefits for war veterans.
* Set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously take to the streets to protest me (15 million people), shattering the record for protest against any person in the history of mankind. (http://www.hyperreal.org/~dana/marches/)
* Dissolved more international treaties than any president in US history.
* My presidency is the most secretive and un-accountable of any in US history.
* Members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in US history. (the 'poorest' multi-millionaire, Condoleeza Rice has an Chevron oil tanker named after her).
* First president in US history to have all 50 states of the Union simultaneously go bankrupt.
* Presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud of any market in any country in the history of the world.
* First president in US history to order a US attack and military occupation of a sovereign nation.
* Created the largest government department bureaucracy in the history of the United States.
* Set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending increases, more than any president in US history.
* First president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the human rights commission.
* First president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the elections monitoring board.
* Removed more checks and balances, and have the least amount of congressional oversight than any presidential administration in US history.
* Rendered the entire United Nations irrelevant.
* Withdrew from the World Court of Law.
* Refused to allow inspectors access to US prisoners of war and by default no longer abide by the Geneva Conventions.
* First president in US history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 US elections).
* All-time US (and world) record holder for most corporate campaign donations.
* My biggest life-time campaign contributor presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy frauds in world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation).
* Spent more money on polls and focus groups than any president in US history.
* First president in US history to unilaterally attack a sovereign nation against the will of the United Nations and the world community.
* First president to run and hide when the US came under attack (and then lied saying the enemy had the code to Air Force 1)
* First US president to establish a secret shadow government.
* Took the biggest world sympathy for the US after 911, and in less than a year made the US the most resented country in the world (possibly the biggest diplomatic failure in US and world history).
* With a policy of 'dis-engagement' created the most hostile Israeli-Palestine relations in at least 30 years.
* First US president in history to have a majority of the people of Europe (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and stability.
* First US president in history to have the people of South Korea more threatened by the US than their immediate neighbor, North Korea.
* Changed US policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts.
* Set all-time record for number of administration appointees who violated US law by not selling huge investments in corporations bidding for government contracts.
* Failed to fulfill my pledge to get Osama Bin Laden 'dead or alive'.
* Failed to capture the anthrax killer who tried to murder the leaders of our country at the United States Capitol building. After 18 months I have no leads and zero suspects.
* In the 18 months following the 911 attacks I have successfully prevented any public investigation into the biggest security failure in the history of the United States.
* Removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans than any other president in US history.
* In a little over two years created the most divided country in decades, possibly the most divided the US has ever been since the civil war.
* Entered office with the strongest economy in US history and in less than two years turned every single economic category heading straight down.
Records and References:
* At least one conviction for drunk driving in Maine (Texas driving record has been erased and is not available).
* AWOL from National Guard and Deserted the military during a time of war.
* Refused to take drug test or even answer any questions about drug use.
* All records of my tenure as governor of Texas have been spirited away to my fathers library, sealed in secrecy and un-available for public view.
* All records of any SEC investigations into my insider trading or bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and un-available for public view.
* All minutes of meetings for any public corporation I served on the board are sealed in secrecy and un-available for public view.
* Any records or minutes from meetings I (or my VP) attended regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and un-available for public review.
* For personal references please speak to my daddy or uncle James Baker (They can be reached at their offices of the Carlyle Group for war-profiteering.) |
| therippa |
Posted - 08/02/2004 : 1:47:03 PM
Here's the dirt on Kerry. I found this on Ted Nugent's website. Although this is techincally supposed to make you angry, I see a lot of this as reasons to vote for Kerry.
EDUCATION
Educated at Swiss Boarding Schools -- because my parents did not like me that much
Attended elite private schools like Fessenden School in West Newton, Massachusetts and St. Paul's in New Hampshire -- just like your kids
Graduated Yale University, 1966 (I am much smarter than that Bush guy -- oh, wait, he also went to Yale.)
Graduated Boston College Law School in 1976 (I am much smarter than that Bush guy -- oh, wait, he got an MBA from Harvard.)
VIETNAM MILITARY SERVICE
Served as an officer on a swiftboat in the Mekong Delta in VIETNAM for three long months -- tried my best to come home a hero like JFK after his service on PT-109. I was in VIETNAM -- VIETNAM was a place where I was for a while. Did I mention that VIETNAM veterans love me?
I collected three Purple Hearts in my three months (had to get three in order to come home and run for Congress as a hero like
JFK) and the last one for that scratch on my finger -- it REALLY did hurt! It was important to have the right connections so I could get home and run for Congress on my hero status like JFK -- he was not in VIETNAM, but I was.
Brought my own motion camera to make sure images of me in VIETNAM becoming a hero made it back home to the states. Got a free trip home after three months on my swiftboat where I suffered severe injuries and collected three Purple Hearts (did I mention that), a Bronze and Silver Star for heroism -- ensuring my destiny as a hero and man of the people like JFK.
Got home and found out they were not bestowing hero status on war heroes like me, so I threw my medals, or was it my ribbons, over the White House fence. Maybe it was someone else's medals.
Co-founder of the VIETNAM Veterans of America and spokesperson for the VIETNAM Veterans Against the War and worked closely with Jane Fonda to make sure everyone knew that all the guys in VIETNAM were war criminals -- I was too, and even testified before the Senate about my own war crimes.
"Represented" my cadre of anti-American misfits in a Paris meeting to discuss how we could better provide "aid and comfort" for the North Vietnamese and to discuss the unconditional surrender of the U.S. In doing so, I knowingly, directly violated UCMJ Article 104 part 904, and U.S. Code 18 U.S.C. 953.
Did I mention that this meeting, and my other anti-American activities, also put me in violation of the Constitution's Article three, Section three, which defines treason as "giving aid and comfort" to the enemy in time of warfare.
Consequently, I stand subject to the Constitution's Fourteenth Amendment, Section 3, which states, "No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President...having previously taken an oath...to support the Constitution of the United States, [who has] engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof."
But I don't have to resign -- I am understudy to Teddy Kennedy, now the patriarch of JFK's family.
I topped off my coddling of Commies by authoring a book called The New Soldier -- but since military heroes are back in vogue, I now sue anyone who reproduces the cover of that book on any website, especially a website like http://kerry-04.com/. (The cover picture is a mockery of the Iwo Jima flag raising -- you can see it at http://kerry-04.com/ until my lawyers get them to take it down.)
NOTE: Please join fellow Patriots and sign the
petition demanding John Kerry's resignation. Link to -- http://www.PatriotPetitions.US/Kerry (If you don't have Web access, please send a blank e-mail to: <sign-Kerry@PatriotPetitions.US> Each e-mail sent to this address will be counted as one signature for the petition.)
CONGRESSIONAL "SERVICE"
Volunteered as a campaign worker for my mentor, Teddy Kennedy in 1962. I just love that big lug!
My first campaign for Congress was in 1972 -- I was a war
hero like JFK but nobody noticed so I ran on my anti-American platform. I won the primary with a little help from my campaign manager (brother Cameron) who broke into my opponents campaign headquarters. Unfortunately, because of that Watergate thing, I lost the general election to a Republican even after spending more than any other Congressional campaign in the nation.
In 1982, with the help of Uncle Teddy, I got elected as lieutenant governor for governor Michael Dukakis -- then got elected to the Senate in 1984 -- it has been smooth sailing ever since.
I have dedicated the last 20 years, between wives and vacation homes, promoting big government spending (except in defense and intelligence, which I vote against every chance I get), class warfare, the welfare state and general wealth redistribution, any kind of abortion on demand (without parental consent for minors), and obstructionist tactics in the judicial nominee process.
According to Americans for Democratic [sic] Action, a far-left watchdog group, I have a higher lifetime liberal voting record at 93% than Ted Kennedy with 88%
I am the ranking Democrat member of the Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship. My current millionaire wife is heiress of the Heinz Ketchup fortune -- a "small" business
Ranking member of the Hispanic Task Force, even though I "borked" Miguel Estrada
Chaired the Senate Democratic Leadership Steering and Coordination Committee
In 1987, teemed up with Teddy to get an override of presidential veto of Boston's Big Dig Boondoggle -- one of the most larded distributions of taxpayer largess in U.S. history.
In 1991 the Senate created the Select Senate Committee on POW/MIA Affairs to investigate the possibility that U.S. prisoners of war and soldiers designated missing in action were still alive in Vietnam. Acting as chairman, I helped persuade the group to vote unanimously that no American servicemen still remained in Vietnam. In doing so, I helped begin the process of normalizing U.S.-Vietnamese relations.
Wealthiest senator ("man of the people"), with an estimated net worth of nearly $200 million (that's $800 million if you combine it with my current wife's assets)
POLITICAL POSTURING AND ACCOMPLISHMENTS:
ABORTION
Voted to federally fund abortions
Voted against parental consent for minors
Voted against ban on Partial Birth Abortion (3 times)
Voted against ban on sending money to UN population fund --
the money was sent to pay for China's forced abortion and
sterilization policy
Have been warned by Catholic clergy that I will not be served
communion due to my stance on this issue
NARAL lifetime rating of 100%; National Right to Life
Committee lifetime rating of 0%
DEATH PENALTY
Oppose federal and/or state death penalty (except for innocent
unborn children -- see above)
Voted against death penalty for terrorists
Voted against death penalty for drug-related murders
TAXES & ECONOMICS
I like high taxes and want to raise them
Voted against all three Bush tax cuts & want to repeal them
Voted for 1993 Clinton tax hike (largest in history)
Voted against major tax relief packages at least 10 times
Support re-raising taxes on the wealthy to redistribute money
for healthcare and education -- i.e., Socialism
Claim I can stop outsourcing and create 10 million new jobs in
four years, despite the fact that there are only about 8
million unemployed people in the U.S.
Want to raise the minimum wage, which will result in
outsourcing and the loss of jobs Voted at least 5 times
against balanced budget amendments
Voted at least 5 times to raid the Social Security Trust Fund
Believe Washington manages your money better than you could
Lifetime rating of 26% from Citizens Against Government Waste
MILITARY & NATIONAL SECURITY
We don't need a military, per se
Favor UN control of remaining U.S. Troops
Voted for 7 major reductions in military funding
Voted against Gulf War I (1991)
Voted for Gulf War II -- but then criticized and voted against
military appropriation for troops
Voted against MX missile, Trident Submarine, SDI (Strategic
Defense Initiative -- Star Wars), and the B-1 and B-2 Stealth
Bomber/Fighter
Supported slashing $2.6 billion from intelligence funding
while serving as a member of Senate Intelligence Committee
SECOND AMENDMENT
Against
Have earned a lifetime rating of 0% from the National Rifle
Association
FAITH & VALUES
Against/Don't have any
Voted Against Defense of Marriage Act
Favor civil unions for homosexuals until marriage is popular
enough to support
Voted to extend hate crimes protections to homosexuals
Voted against voluntary school prayer
Voted against ban on human cloning and support embryonic
stem-cell research
EDUCATION
Voted against voucher pilot program
Voted against approving a school-choice pilot program
Support racial profiling and preference for admission to
universities, known as "affirmative action"
JUDGES, COURTS & LAW
Against racial profiling and preference when dealing with
terrorism
Voted against confirmation William Rehnquist as Chief Justice
of the Supreme Court
Voted against confirmation of Robert Bork and Clarence Thomas
to the Supreme Court
Only support activist judges who will support abortion,
persecute Christians and rewrite the Constitution
Voted against confirmation John Ashcroft as U.S. Attorney
General
Voted against punitive damage limits in products liability
cases
As Michael Dukakis' Lt. Governor from 1983-1985, supported
granting prison furloughs to hundreds of Massachusetts inmates
FOREIGN POLICY
Against linking Most Favored Nation status to China's human
rights record
Voted for Kyoto Protocol on Environment that exempted major
Third World polluters, while creating an unfair burden on
American taxpayers
Supported Iraq regime change as late as January 2003, but not
anymore
Support unilateral nuclear freeze
Support submitting completely to the UN, as well as the
International Criminal Court, taking all sovereignty away
from the U.S. and its citizens
Don't know what the Geneva Conventions say, mean or who
they apply to
OTHER QUALIFICATIONS
Five multi-million dollar mansions
A large multi-million dollar yacht
Many "American" cars, including several gas-guzzling SUVs, which I am opposed to politically
Personal 757 campaign jet
Access to unlimited condiments -- did I mention my current millionaire wife is heiress to the Heinz fortune
Have dual citizenship in France
REFERENCES
General Vo Nguyen Giap -- most celebrated military hero of NORTH VIETNAM, where I served
"Hanoi Jane" Fonda
Teddy Kennedy
John F. Kennedy -- we have the same initials
Howard Dean -- (Albert Gore by proxy)
Dan Rather, Tom Brokaw and Peter Jennings
"Foreign Leaders" who I am unable to name at this time |
| SandyCarl |
Posted - 08/02/2004 : 1:31:01 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Zachmozach
quote:
Originally posted by SandyCarl
so there's only the one candidate running, then?
Check out what I initially wrote.
quote:
I'm going to start with bush here but I'm looking to get out all sorts of info on Kerry too so just wait it might take a couple of days.
I'm really going to stick to Bush and Kerry but anybody should feel free to put up info on any candidate. What I'm really going for though is to expose them for what they are.
Yes I know what you initially wrote, and I waited a couple of days for information about the other candidates. You said you'd provide it, but really you just want to talk bad about the President of the United States of America.
Thank you for helping me decide who to vote for. |
| Zachmozach |
Posted - 08/01/2004 : 7:16:55 PM
quote:
Originally posted by SandyCarl
so there's only the one candidate running, then?
Check out what I initially wrote.
quote:
I'm going to start with bush here but I'm looking to get out all sorts of info on Kerry too so just wait it might take a couple of days.
I'm really going to stick to Bush and Kerry but anybody should feel free to put up info on any candidate. What I'm really going for though is to expose them for what they are. |
| Zachmozach |
Posted - 08/01/2004 : 7:14:03 PM
The Cheney Index
*Cheney's 2000 income from Halliburton: $36,086,635
*Number of stock options Cheney still owns: 433,333
*Size of his retirement package (not including the stock options): $20million
*Increase in government contracts while Cheney led Halliburton: 91 percent
*Minimum size of "accounting irregularity" that occurred while Cheney was CEO: $234 million
*Number of the seven official US "state sponsers of terror" that Halliburton contracted with: three out of seven (Iran, Iraq, Libya)
*Pages of Energy Plan documents Cheney refused to give congressional investigators: 13,500
*Amount the energy sector gave to Republican candidates for 2000 elections: $50 million
*Number of energy corporations identified that helped Cheney's Energy Task Force shape national energy policy: 30
Sources: Center for Responsive Politics, Center for Public Integrity, MoveOn.org, US department of state |
| SandyCarl |
Posted - 08/01/2004 : 7:08:16 PM
so there's only the one candidate running, then? |
| Zachmozach |
Posted - 08/01/2004 : 7:04:15 PM
A Winner!
Bechtel Group
Campaign contributions, 1990-2002: $3.3 million
Percentage to republicans: 1999-2002: 59%
Total contract value in Iraq and Afghanistan, 2002-2003: $1 billion
Stock Value: privately held
The San Francisco-based engineering group, which had over $13 billion in revenues in 2002, has recieved more than 2,000 government contracts since 1990, worth $11.7 billion. Just six months after the 2003 invasion of Iraq, Bechtel had surpassed the $1 billion mark in Iraq contracts--the largest of which allowed no competitive bids. The company scored contracts to rebuild power generation facilities, electrical grids, water and sewage systems, and airport facilities.
Bechtel was one of twenty-four US companies that supplied Iraq with weapons during the 1980s. In 1976, the US justice department sued the company for participating in a boycott of Israeli business led by the Arab League. In the 1990s, Bechtel was part of a consortium in Bolivia that privitized the water system. Riots ensued after the company raised water prices, and the consortium pulled out of the project. Bechtel is now attempting to recover $25 million in losses from the Bolivian government.
Crony Connections
Bechtel is umbilically connected to the Republican establishment:
*Reagan-Bush Secretary of State George Shultz was a former Bechtel president and is a current board member.
*Reagan-Bush Seceraty of Defense Casper Weinberger was a former Bechtel general counsel.
*Reagan-Bush Deputy Secretary of Energy W. Kenneth Davis was Bechtel's vice president.
*General Jack Sheehan (USMC, retired) joined Bechtel in 1998 as senior vice president. He is also a member of the Pentagon's Defense policy board.
*Andrew Natsios, Bush II's USAID administrator overseeing bids for postwar contracts, was formerly the secretary for administration in Massachusetts, where he oversaw the Boston area Big Dig tunnel construction project, for which Bechtel was the primary contracter. The Big Dig is currently $1.6 billion over budget. |
| dan p. |
Posted - 08/01/2004 : 6:46:35 PM
ah, ok. must have not seen that before. sorry. |
| Zachmozach |
Posted - 08/01/2004 : 6:39:26 PM
quote:
Originally posted by dan p.
are you going to site your sources for your last 3 postspost, or should we just ignore them?
Sorry I made a correction in the first post in the series to show the sources for them. |
| Zachmozach |
Posted - 08/01/2004 : 6:35:57 PM
A Winner!
DynCorp
Campaign contributions, 1990-2002: $1.2 Million
Percentage to republicans, 1999-2002: 75%
Total contract value in Iraq and Afghanistan, 2002-2003: $50.1 million
Stock Price (Computer Sciences Corporation), pre-Iraq invasion (3/13/03): $28.15
Stock price, post invasion high (9/4/03): $44.95
Change in stock value: +60%
A subsidary of Computer sciences corporation, DynCorp is in the global rent-a-cop -and rent an army- business. The company won a $50 million contract to train police and security personnel in Iraq. The contract could ultimately be worth up to half a billion dollars. In 2002, the company spent $1.1 million to lobby government officials on issues related to defense and government privitazation.
In 2000, two DynCorp employees ran an underage sex slave ring in Bosnia while there under US contract. The DynCorp employees who exposed this crime were subsequently fired. They later sued; the company paid damages of $200,000 to one whistle-blower and settled out of court with another. Though the DunCorp employees involved in the sex ring were fired, none have faced criminal charges. Among numerous fraud claims involving the company, Computer Sciences Corporation paid a $2.1 million fine to settle a 1993 charge of making false and misleading statements and overbilling on a major EPA contract.
Crony Connections
*Van Honeycutt, president/CEO of Computer Sciences Corporation, is chair of president Bush's National Security Telecommunications Advisory Committee (NSTAC), under the Department of Homeland Security.
*Ronald L. Dick, DynaCorp's director of information assurance strategic initiatives, was director of the FBI's National Infrastructure Protection Center, part of the agency's counterterrorism division.
*Hayward D. Fisk, Vice President, general counsel, and secretary, has served on advisory councils to the Federal Communications Commision. |
| dan p. |
Posted - 08/01/2004 : 10:50:36 AM
are you going to site your sources for your last 3 postspost, or should we just ignore them?
george bush would have you believe he doesn't eat babies, but has never gone on record saying he doesn't. maybe he's too busy eating babies. |
| Zachmozach |
Posted - 07/31/2004 : 11:51:02 PM
A Winner!
Fluor Corporation
Campaign contributions, 1990-2002 $3.6 million
percentage to republicans, 1999-2002: 57%
Total contract value in Iraq and Afghanistan, 2003-2003: $500 million
Stock price, pre-Iraq invasion (2/13/03):$27.18
Stock price, post-invasion high (10/14/03):$40.82
Change in stock value: +50%
An international engineering and construction company, Fluor Corporation was one of the lucky half-dozen American contractors invited by the US agency for international development to bid for the overall Iraqi reconstruction contract. Fluor has landed three cost-plus Iraq contracts "to rapidly execute design and constructions services as needed anywhere" for the US military's central command. Each contract could be worth up to $500 million. Fluor is currently repairing the electrical infastructure in central and southern Iraq.
In 2003, South Africans filed a multibillio-dollar suit against Fluor, charging that it exploited black workers under apartheid.
In may 2001, Fluor paid $8.5 million to settle charges of falsely claiming millions of dollars in costs on defense contracts. In June 1997, Fluor paid $8.4 million to settle a lawsuit that alleged that the company violated the False claims act, including and assertion that Fluor "sought government reimbursement for an employee pizza party.
Crony Connections
*Philip J. Carroll Jr., former chairman and CEO of Fluor Corporation and a former Shell Oil Company executive, is overseeing the restructuring of Iraq's oil industry. Carroll recieves more than $1 million in retirement benifits and bonuses from Fluor, which are tied to the company's performance, and he owns shares estimated to be worth more than $34 million. Not to worry: Carroll insists, "I will stay so far away from any consideration of the bidding process, or even the administration and arbitration of the things associated with any of those companies in which I have a financial interest.... I will have absolutely nothing to do with it."
*Admiral Bobby Inman, former deputy director of the CIA, is a Fluor board member. He is also on the boards of SAIC and the oil company Temple-Inland.
*Kenneth Oscar, Fluor's Vice President of strategy and government services, was acting assistant secretary of the Army before joining Fluor in April 2002. Oscar directed the Army's $35-billion-a-year procurement budget.
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| Zachmozach |
Posted - 07/31/2004 : 11:21:17 PM
This next one is to show the connections between companies that were given contracts in Iraq and the Bush administration. These are all from "Exception to the Rulers" by Amy Goodwin and David Goodwin pgs. 53-65.
Here's a selective list of the companies cashing in on Iraq's misery, highlighting their campaign contributions, past abuses crony connections, and surging stock value (some of these are privately held companies that do not have stock).
A Winner!
Science Applications International Corporation (SAIC)
Campaign contributions, 1990-2002 $4.7 million
Total contract value in Iraq and Afghanistan, 2002-2003: $38 million
Stock: privately held
With $5.9 billion in revenues (2002), SAIC, with 40,000 employees, is the largest employee-owned research and engineering company in the country. It's largest customer is the US government, which accounts for 69 percent of its business.
In 2003, this top ten defense contractor, best known for its programs for special forces, got $38 million deal to run the Iraq media network (IMN), which was responsible for rebuilding Iraq's mass media. The contract overseen by the pentagon's psychological operations department is "considered the most ambitious and costly foreign media program ever undertaken by the US government. SAIC hired former voince of America director Robert Reilly to run the network. Reilly's conservitive credentials had been honed in the 1980s when he ran the white house information operation backing Nicaraguan Contras.
Reilly left after just six months when IMN staffers walked out in protest over lack of funds and the network's irrelevence. Top IMN broadcasters were being paid $120 per month and were given allowance only for clothing above the waist (i.e. on camera). SAIC "consultants" on the project were being paid up to $273 per hour.
In 1995 SAIC paid a $2.5 millioin fine for cheating the Air Force on a contract for fighter jet cockpit displays.
In Venezuela in January 2003, SAIC allegedly participated in the management strike against President Hugo Chavez that nearly paralyzed the country. According to the Venezuelan energy minister, SAIC declined to provide the Venezuelan government with information needed to keep the oil refineries open as oil company managers participated in an attempt to overthrow the Chavez government.
Crony Connections
*David Kay, the former UN weapons inspector who was hired by the CIA in 2003 to search for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, was vice president of SAIC until 2002.
*Admiral Bobby Inman, SAIC board member from 1982 to 2003, is a former deputy director of the CIA and former director of the national security agency.
*Christopher "Ryan" Henry was SAIC vice president for strategic assesment and development until February 2003, when he left to become deputy undersecretary of defense for policy.
*General W. A. Downing (US army, retired), SAIC board member, was a lobbyist for the CIA-backed Iraqi national congress and its leader, Ahmed Chalabi. Downing was also a board member of the committee for the Liberation of Iraq, along with Bechtel director and former secretary of state george shultz. From October 2001 to July 2002, Downing was deputy assistant director for international counterterrorism initiatives on the National Security Council.
*William Owens, a former SAIC president, serves on Bush's defense policy board.
more to follow.... |
| Zachmozach |
Posted - 07/31/2004 : 10:19:22 PM
OILYgarchy Cast of Characters
George Bush, President: Failed oilman.
Dick Cheney, vice president: Former CEO of Halliburton, the largest oil services company in the world.
Condoleeza Rice, national security advisor: Former member of Chevron board of directors for a decade. Had oil tanker named after her.
Spencer Abraham, secretary of energy: Former top recipient of campaign contributions from the automotive industry while a one-term senator.
Don Evans, Secretary of commerce: Ex-CEO and chair of Tom Brown Inc., a billion dollar oil and gas company.
Gale Norton, secretary of interior: Former lawyer for Delta Petroleum.
Andrew Card, chief of staff: Former chief lobbyist, General motors.
Oligarchy n a small group of people who together govern a nation or control an organization, often for their own purposes.
OILYgarchy n a bunch of guys from the oil industry who take over the political leadership of a nation, then hijack its military to attack and occupy a vast oil-producing region of the world, lavishly enriching themselves and ensuring perpetual control of global oil. In order to survive, OILYgarchies typically require the abrogation of civil liberties, depict self-enrichment as a patriotic duty, and rely on the cooperation of a slavish press.
The Exception to the Rulers, Amy Goodman with David Goodman pg.41&42 |
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