| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| dirtysloth |
Posted - 06/26/2003 : 9:51:43 PM
http://www.riaa.com/news/newsletter/062503.asp
As a future audio engineer, I can say that they don't speak for me. What the music industry needs to do is quit complaining, because no matter how much they say they're losing, it's all just a guessing game, because the truth is that they're making more money than ever. The solution would be to stop feeding us the stuff that all sounds the same and come up with something new and good. This is what Bob Ezrin had to say when he spoke to my class anyway(worked on a lot of Pink Floyd stuff, like The Wall, did some Aerosmith, and some Kiss, I think he's been around long enough to be a little credible). An artist has to sell about a million copies of an album before they start making money. Only one out of every ten albums released actually even makes a profit. So what they're saying about hurting artists is true to a point of course, but they're hurting artists much more. Artists like TR seem to see the internet as more of a tool than a hinderance anyway. And that's how I see it, how Ezrin saw it too. It's like the radio, except at your own pace. If you're like me, if you like the music, you go buy the album anyway. Of course the arguement is that you get your own physical copy of it, but it's still inferior quality, and that's not good enough for audiophiles like me. But they argue that it is for some people. And that's true. Again, I realize it is illegal and can hurt artists, I see that, but sueing your own customers is not the way to go, I'm sorry, I can't make any sense of that. |
| 13 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Arthen |
Posted - 06/30/2003 : 6:17:58 PM
The whole recording industry is screwed up. |
| victorwootenfan |
Posted - 06/30/2003 : 5:37:48 PM
i read a zappa book recently, and it talks about how he had a fall-out with the mothers, and they got really mad, and called zappa a sell-out, and a bunch of other stuff. They apparently got really pissed off at him for some reason. |
| Evergreen |
Posted - 06/30/2003 : 4:16:11 PM
No joke! Interesting responses because just about everyone thinks FZ was fucked up all the time. Nope!!!! You said it, he was imaginitive, freakishly crazy, daring, experimental,(AND amazingly observant of local and global "states of affairs"), just by nature alone.
In fact, there was one point back in the late 60's when the rest of the band Mothers of Invention wanted to unanimously vote him out of the band along with a crappy manager (who really was a crappy manager AND was drunk and tripped all the time and didn't arrange many opportunties for a band in Cali to get exposure or shows), because Frank wouldn't do drugs or get messed up with them. Which they all did on a daily basis, like hardcore tripping. They said he needed a bunch of peyote in the desert so he could talk to God and get shown the "real way" and get enlightenment for creativity. I'd quote the paragraph/story directly, but I don't have the book with me. Too funny and WAY to ironic. FZ tells it way funnier than me though.
They of course never did vote him out. He instead went on to be more prolific, creative, well known, and successful than all of the other Mothers put together. He also never signed with a record company. He kept driving on against alot of odds to make enough money until he created his own.
It really is worth a read |
| victorwootenfan |
Posted - 06/27/2003 : 3:34:55 PM
quote:
Originally posted by enthuTIMsiast
quote:
Originally posted by Evergreen
One of the reasons FZ never took drugs or alcohol was because he wanted to keep a straight head about the biz and the sneaky record contracting companies
FZ never took drugs or alcohol? I have a totally new respect for him and his music.
I was very amazed, and somewhat surprised but not surprised when i found this out...i read a quote from one of his band mates that said something along the lines of "he was weird enough without drugs or alcohol.." |
| enthuTIMsiast |
Posted - 06/27/2003 : 3:31:08 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Evergreen
One of the reasons FZ never took drugs or alcohol was because he wanted to keep a straight head about the biz and the sneaky record contracting companies
FZ never took drugs or alcohol? I have a totally new respect for him and his music. |
| Evergreen |
Posted - 06/27/2003 : 2:04:31 PM
Dirtysloth said: quote:
An artist has to sell about a million copies of an album before they start making money. Only one out of every ten albums released actually even makes a profit. So what they're saying about hurting artists is true to a point of course, but they're hurting artists much more.
VWF said quote:
I would hope for people to be trading tapes of live shows and recordings all the time, cause that way you gain popularity without the MTV/mainstream help, and you tend to keep your fans a LOT longer.
Dirtysloth said: quote:
I think musicians are entitled to the money their music generates.I think you can be in it for the music and still not be ok with people stealing your music and signing all your profits away in contracts.I think most of this has to do with the way the record industry itself functions though, not online file sharing. I know I might seem like I'm sort of taking both sides here, but I'm really not. I side with the artist, not the record company.
Great insights above. As to what VWF said, The Grateful Dead encouraged taping and trading for free right from the beginning. The concept came about before the age of computers, but word and trading traveled fast and still does. Every live show was recorded and traded for free by several different people recording at shows. They had a taping section as most of you probably know and people could go into the show early and plug into the sound board. usually an obstructed view but great end product. no one watched the band much anyway, more listened and danced. Nothing they ever recorded in studios did very well sales wise. But they had the top money making concerts and sell out shows year after year as a result. Phish followed suit and also allows trading this way. I always attributed it to the free(good quality) and trading of which the band encouraged. I thought it was a brilliant marketing technique and kept the fans very happy.
I think Dirtysloth hit it on the head with the idea that the LARGE (record)producing companies being the real enemy. As an artist you do not own your self, your band or your artistic material once you sign on. "Hand your talent over we'll decide when and how much money you'll see from any of it. And if we can figure out a way to screw you out of it by contract we will". If you ask me they are the REAL criminal thieves.
AND this is nothing new for record/producing companies as I found out after reading The Real Frank Zappa Book by FZ. He discusses, on several occasions, dating back into the 50's, examples of this happening. He observed that during the 60's movement, artists were usually so drug induced by nature of the times, that record companies had a free for all while everyone was tripping or so F%&*@ed up they couldn't function. One of the reasons FZ never took drugs or alcohol was because he wanted to keep a straight head about the biz and the sneaky record contracting companies. AND in the beginning, they were offering him contracts and (some) money. He turned them all down even though no one knew of or could really understand/accept his bizarre style of music. He was literally starving at times with no money. Hadn't eaten for days and they dangled money and a contract in front of him and he turned it down because he never wanted them to own him. Many other examples of how underhanded and cunning they were in the book, which you should read. Reminds me alot of TR's philosophies of which I admire so much.
This kind of thing has been going on for a LONG time as the Frank book attests. I don't think the fans trading is the real issue and perhaps it's a cover-up for what has been occurring "for way too long" almost becoming the norm.
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| dan p. |
Posted - 06/27/2003 : 10:44:09 AM
i don't seem to recall saying all music should be free. i'll re read, but i don't think it's in there anywhere. what i did say was that i couldn't change money for my music. clearly, if you're trying to make a living from music performance, then giving it away for free may not be the best move. however, when using performance to make a living, you run the risk of putting the music 2nd to what would earn you a living. i also said that people who charge for their music aren't wrong.
yeah. i know the quality on the mp3 are bad. |
| victorwootenfan |
Posted - 06/27/2003 : 06:29:02 AM
If I was a musician on a larger scale(and I hope to be one day), I would hope for people to be trading tapes of live shows and recordings all the time, cause that way you gain popularity without the MTV/mainstream help, and you tend to keep your fans a LOT longer. The example I like to give is phish, how they can sell out huge venues very very fast, and never(or rarely) be played on the radio or not mentioned on anything on tv. |
| Arthen |
Posted - 06/27/2003 : 01:04:38 AM
I definitely think they are handling the situation the wrong way.
I can't understand how they think they are going to get customers, when they bankrupt them. Stupid RIAA. |
| dirtysloth |
Posted - 06/27/2003 : 12:34:28 AM
quote:
i've never charged a dime for any of my music. i accept money offered to me for my music, but i never demand it. to me, music is the best part of myself. it's probably the closest people get to me. to sell that, to me, seems like prostitiution. i know that some people don't look at it that way, so they might ask for money. and that's fine. they aren't wrong.
I've never charged money for mine either, but I'm not trying to make a living off of it yet. You can't make a living by giving it away. If all music was free, then just about all music would be poor quality recordings on mp3.com(no offense). My recording arts degree would be worthless because there'd be no need for people like me to run multimillion dollar music studios because there wouldn't be any. |
| dan p. |
Posted - 06/27/2003 : 12:07:56 AM
i've never charged a dime for any of my music. i accept money offered to me for my music, but i never demand it. to me, music is the best part of myself. it's probably the closest people get to me. to sell that, to me, seems like prostitiution. i know that some people don't look at it that way, so they might ask for money. and that's fine. they aren't wrong. |
| dirtysloth |
Posted - 06/26/2003 : 11:03:59 PM
quote:
i think that as a muscisan if your gonna complain that your loosing money then you shouldn't be in it all together because you'll always loose money and arn't most of them supposed to be in it for the music anyway?
I don't think that's a good arguement. I think musicians are entitled to the money their music generates. I think you can be in it for the music and still not be ok with people stealing your music and signing all your profits away in contracts. As for artists, it's less of a money issue the higher up you go, but to me it's a matter of principle no matter who you are. I think most of this has to do with the way the record industry itself functions though, not online file sharing. I know I might seem like I'm sort of taking both sides here, but I'm really not. I side with the artist, not the record company. |
| JoeGamo05 |
Posted - 06/26/2003 : 10:41:42 PM
i agree with you if i am to ever make it big in the music buisness i wouldn't care cuz that would equal my music reaching other people they really do need to stop complaining about it though... awhile ago i was listening to the news and a congrassman or however u spell it of alabama or something like that wanted to put virsus into peoples computers to teach them a lesson about that.. that right there is just messed up. i think that as a muscisan if your gonna complain that your loosing money then you shouldn't be in it all together because you'll always loose money and arn't most of them supposed to be in it for the music anyway? goes to show ya how quick they change... but then again a million dollar check could change alot of minds... lol well thats my view on it |
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