| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Evergreen |
Posted - 01/10/2003 : 3:14:55 PM
Why is everyone talking about reinstating the mandatory draft
into the military. I've heard some news casts saying this may happen with no other real info. What the Hell!
Anyone else hear anything about this happening? I really hope its just banter. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| tericee |
Posted - 01/13/2003 : 7:50:54 PM
Here's something that was written by a family friend and published in the LA Times back in October. A couple of months before that, he wrote an article that advocated cancellation of registration as well. He's a way cool guy.
Draft Would Cast a Chill Over the Military by Doug Bandow
Doug Bandow is a senior fellow at the Cato Institute.
Although many questions about how to fight a war with Iraq and how to manage the aftermath remain unanswered, one thing is clear: The United States will win this battle with volunteers.
Whenever the U.S. goes to war, someone proposes a draft. That was the case a dozen years ago in the Gulf War. It's happening again, most recently when Jeffrey Smith, onetime general counsel to both the CIA and the Senate Armed Services Committee, advocated forcing people into uniform not only to conquer Iraq but to serve in the Peace Corps and rebuild Afghanistan. Here is why that's a bad idea:
The U.S. has the most powerful and effective military on Earth. The soldiers and sailors who use high-tech weapons today are better-educated than the draft-era force. More than 90% of Army and Navy recruits last year had high school diplomas, as did 96% of Marine and 99% of Air Force recruits. Recruiting was tougher in 1998 and 1999, but even then the military's problem could have been solved by lowering standards.
The all-volunteer force is superior in another way: The armed services are filled with people who desire to serve, reducing discipline problems. Those who are discontented are released. With conscription, the services can ill afford to kick out even the worst performers, since doing so would reward those wanting out.
Northwestern University sociologist Charles Moskos and Paul Glastris, editor in chief of the Washington Monthly, recognize the need for high-quality volunteers. But they suggest a draft to bring in sufficient numbers of recruits for support and peacekeeping duties to "free up professional soldiers to do the fighting without sacrificing other U.S. commitments."
More sensible, however, would be to ask: Which commitments are worth meeting?
For instance, no vital national interest is at stake in the Balkans, certainly not forcing three hostile communities to forever live together in the artificial country of Bosnia and ensuring that Kosovo remain an autonomous part of Serbia against the wishes of its inhabitants. Moreover, why should the U.S. rather than Europeans undertake that? Similarly, why do 37,000 troops remain on station in South Korea, a nation with 40 times the gross domestic product, twice the population and a vast technological edge over its northern antagonist?
Smith and others oppose using reserves to supplement our volunteer forces in Iraq because that would make recruiting more difficult. But why even have reserves if they aren't used when necessary?
Conscription advocates also criticize a so-called underclass military, even though rigorous educational and test standards mean that few of the underclass ever suit up. Although not perfectly representative -- in terms of percentage there are more blacks and fewer Latinos in the military than in the population, for instance -- those in the services are generally from families with middle-class incomes and social backgrounds. To be perfectly fair, a draft would have to target poor as well as rich.
Some complain that only volunteers are being asked to die for their country. Yet New York City firefighters volunteered to defend their fellow citizens, and 343 of them died on Sept. 11, 2001, more than the number of servicemen and servicewomen killed in the Gulf War, Kosovo and the war on terrorism combined. Should only volunteers fight fires and crime? Devote their lives to the poor?
A free society doesn't mean there are no shirkers, content to benefit from the sacrifices of others. But that is the price of freedom. Allowing a Washington elite to decide how everyone else should spend his or her life is a dubious form of "fairness."
Defending the United States means defending a free society built on individual liberty. Renewing conscription would destroy the very thing we are supposed to be protecting.
This article was published in the Los Angeles Times, Oct. 16, 2002. |
| tericee |
Posted - 01/13/2003 : 7:32:08 PM
quote:
Originally posted by tericee
I recommend reading (NOT watching) Starship Troopers, by Robert Heinlein.
Here's more on Starship Troopers from The New American:
Heinlein's novel was not a plea for conscription, which he opposed "for any reason at any time, war or peace"; he maintained that "the draft is involuntary servitude, immoral, and unconstitutional no matter what the Supreme Court says."
Heinlein was an unabashed anti-communist, and, as depicted in the novel, the alien "Bugs" were a humanoid race that practiced "total communism" under "the total dictatorship of the hive." Unlike those who insisted that the West could only defeat the communists by embracing a different form of collectivism, Heinlein maintained that "any group is weaker than a man alone unless they are perfectly trained to work together" -- and the Bugs, unlike humans, were adapted by evolution to collectivism. Heinlein's view is that human freedom depends upon the voluntary sacrifice of their comforts, their freedom, and their lives to protect their families, communities, and nations.
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| tericee |
Posted - 01/13/2003 : 6:51:55 PM
We had co-ed bathrooms in college, but they were more like the ones in Ally McBeal than the ones in Starship Troopers. Guys learned fast not to use the urinals. As for showers, there was a curtain that separated each shower cubicle, so it wasn't like the community showering thing in the movie.
As I recall, they didn't even HAVE real showers in the book; there was some sort of sand-like substance they used. Or am I getting my novels confused? |
| Fleabass76 |
Posted - 01/13/2003 : 6:38:49 PM
Coed showers? What?
*looks around* |
| Evergreen |
Posted - 01/13/2003 : 10:17:55 AM
Thats a GREAT book! You should really read it.
RH is such a great writer and has written lots and lots.
ST is one of the best. The books are always better
than the movies. |
| Fluffy |
Posted - 01/13/2003 : 02:28:14 AM
Yes, but I think Tericee wants you to read the book!!! |
| {=HTG=} |
Posted - 01/13/2003 : 12:28:26 AM
Ah, 'starship troopers,' hell of a movie.  |
| tericee |
Posted - 01/12/2003 : 8:14:11 PM
quote:
Originally posted by SpaceMonkey
There two books that address this so well: Catch-22 and Johnny Got His Gun.
I recommend reading (not watching) Starship Troopers, by Robert Heinlein.
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| tericee |
Posted - 01/12/2003 : 8:12:00 PM
Useful information for everyone who doesn't want to join me as a mindless automaton who has offered up my life "to corporate interests (oil, etc.) that will undoubtedly have little to no effect on" me or my family's well-being in the long run:
Center on Conscience and War
http://www.nisbco.org/What_Do_I.htm
teri
See also...
http://www.timreynolds.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2597
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| victorwootenfan |
Posted - 01/12/2003 : 6:20:49 PM
Damn dude, you keep on getting the flaming moe's... my status as flaming moe semi-prince is vanishing ever so slighty from view. |
| {=HTG=} |
Posted - 01/12/2003 : 1:56:06 PM
Anyone up for a flaming moe??  |
| {=HTG=} |
Posted - 01/12/2003 : 1:53:18 PM
Hhhmmm, i'm a little thirsty... |
| victorwootenfan |
Posted - 01/12/2003 : 1:37:12 PM
i heard something about drafting women for medical help in the army, any truth to that? |
| PJK |
Posted - 01/12/2003 : 07:45:14 AM
Then I wouldn't worry about it, hehehehe. You are very lucky! |
| Fleabass76 |
Posted - 01/12/2003 : 02:57:36 AM
I never got a phone call or anything in the mail. Wierd. |
| PJK |
Posted - 01/11/2003 : 11:12:11 PM
There has been talk about reinstating the draft if the situation with North Korea worsens. I don't think it will happen with the Iraq situation, but who knows. There is also talk of mandatory enlistment,I think for both men and women (?) but that isn't getting much support right now. Unlike a draft, everyone of age would automatically have to serve.
I couldn't believe how fast the Selective Service sent forms for my son to fill out. The day he hit 18 there was something in the mail! Nothing else the govn't does ever works that fast!
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| victorwootenfan |
Posted - 01/11/2003 : 9:08:18 PM
so how do you file for C.O. do you have to register and do that, enlist, what... i just know that i'm sure as hell not gonna waste myself in getting drafted to iraq! |
| Fleabass76 |
Posted - 01/11/2003 : 4:22:59 PM
Wow, that's a huge signature 305...
Anyway, when all my friends and stuff were badgering me about how I have to register for service or else i'll get arrested, I did a little research. It seems that the government used to imprison people for not registering, but when they did, the registrationg rate actually went down so they stopped. The only real down side to not registering is that if you ever run for public office your opponents will probably use it against you. I don't care though cuz since I don't exactly believe in god i won't get elected to anything anyway. Besides, I'm no Sonny Bono! |
| GuitarGuy305 |
Posted - 01/11/2003 : 3:17:53 PM
Perhaps I should reconsider my move to Ireland....seems like a good time to go.
Adam |
| Fluffy |
Posted - 01/11/2003 : 06:22:24 AM
Fluffy from another topic, seems quite apropos though: quote:
I took a stand in high school about registering for the "selective service". We were required to register for it in case of a draft situation. I wholeheartedly refused as this goes against every fiber of my being. Being required to serve in the military against your wishes, beliefs or convictions. WRONG!! I refused to register and the hounded me about it threating to imprison me if I did not register. Keep in mind, in there infinite wisdom, they were threating to lock me up the whole TIMe I was an actual member of the US Army. I had joined of my own free will, as we should all have the freedom to do or not to do, and the whole TIMe I was in the Army, they continually contacted me threating to lock me up if I did not register with selective service. I had decided if they ever pressed the matter I would show up in court in my uniform and explain exactly how I felt registering was unconstitutional and that if they didn't agree with me they could lock me up and throw away the key and they could explain to the Army why I couldn't finish my enlistment as I was enslaved in the prison system for failing to register for the selective service. Does anyone else see the irony in the whole situation. Our govt needs to pull it's head out of it's ass and join the real world. They are so lost in a world of paper shuffling, rules and regulations they can't see the forest for the trees. Needless to say, I served my TIMe and never did register for the selective service. I was listed as a conscientious objector the whole TIMe I was serving in the Army. How silly is that. HEHE Govt, PFFFFFFF!!!!
http://www.timreynolds.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2615 |
| SpaceMonkey |
Posted - 01/11/2003 : 01:39:30 AM
This thread just reminded me about the frivolity of war...do you hold your life in such low regard that you would offer it up to corporate interests (oil, etc.) that will undoubtedly have little to no effect on you or your family's well-being in the long run? There two books that address this so well: Catch-22 and Johnny Got His Gun. I would recommend them to anyone.
Mandatory draft? You better believe I'm dodging it. Our current and former presidents did it, why can't I? |
| Fleabass76 |
Posted - 01/10/2003 : 10:51:36 PM
If it does start I'll just enlist right away and sign up for the Air Force Jazz band. Jazz musician's never die! ..wait.. |
| victorwootenfan |
Posted - 01/10/2003 : 9:44:13 PM
well remember they did it to vietnam, that was kinda pointless too... |
| therippa |
Posted - 01/10/2003 : 5:35:18 PM
quote:
Originally posted by victorwootenfan
If it comes down to me being drafted i'm going C.O. the whole way. Finally those 17 years of church will come in handy!(by the way i'm a pagan)
It doesn't work that way. Only people who enlist before they are drafted are given the choice of which incredibly exciting career path the wish to participate in. Otherwise, you will become a foot soldier.
Remember, there are over 200 ways to become a soldier...and they all feautre such great benefits as disgustingly low pay and mandatory redneck haircuts.
I'm actually starting to get a little jittery about this whole situation. The thought that they may start up the draft over a war as frivilous as this one is startling. |
| victorwootenfan |
Posted - 01/10/2003 : 5:21:41 PM
If it comes down to me being drafted i'm going C.O. the whole way. Finally those 17 years of church will come in handy!(by the way i'm a pagan) |
| Evergreen |
Posted - 01/10/2003 : 4:11:32 PM
quote:
making fun of him in some way
Well good because maybe that will help ensure the rat doesn't get re-elected. But if we wait for the next election we could all be in trouble and all the natural resources gone. The word ASSasination comes to mind!!!! |
| Fleabass76 |
Posted - 01/10/2003 : 4:04:06 PM
Naw, Osama's family and the Bush's are tight dude. Hehe, more bush bashing...eh..it's kinda lost it's effect, it's everywhere. I was looking at Bday cards yesterday and there were like 7 cards w/ Bush on them making fun of him in some way. |
| therippa |
Posted - 01/10/2003 : 4:02:26 PM
Fuck that...I'll move to Canada. I am not going to die so Junior can fulfill his father's oil induced dreams.
This is turning into a big pissing contest, whatever happened to Osama Bin Laden? I haven't heard his name mentioned in the news for at least 8 months, aren't we supposed to be going after him? |
| victorwootenfan |
Posted - 01/10/2003 : 3:37:02 PM
I'm 17, but that only holds for a few more months...i've heard the rumors though... |
| Fleabass76 |
Posted - 01/10/2003 : 3:30:58 PM
It's ok cuz i'm not even registered...hehe...he...he...
*looks around suspiciously* |
