| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Fluffy |
Posted - 01/04/2003 : 8:23:37 PM
I read this story and unfortunately it gives no explanation for WHY this organization considers SUV's such a threat. Here's the story I read, if anyone knows anymore about this, please LMK, I am quite interested in their justification. I am not sure burning the enviroment they claim to be protecting is the answer. I want to understand a little bit better where they are coming from.
SUV's Torched In Eco-Attack
PITTSBURGH (Jan. 4) - In the latest in a string of vandalism carried out in the name of the Earth Liberation Front, members of the radical environmental group are claiming responsibility for a fire at a Pennsylvania auto dealership.
A posting on the group's Web site said the ``attack'' targeted SUVs in a fight ``to remove the profit motive from the killing of the natural environment.''
Jugs of gasoline were set ablaze under three vehicles, engulfing them and a nearby car in flames Wednesday at a dealership in Girard, about 110 miles north of Pittsburgh, FBI Special Agent Bob Rudge said. Three other vehicles also had jugs of gasoline set under them but failed to ignite.
``I have no reason to doubt that it's an individual who committed the acts on behalf of the Earth Liberation Front,'' Rudge said.
The FBI considers the Earth Liberation Front one of the nation's most prolific domestic terrorist organizations. It is thought to be responsible for the 1998 torching of a ski resort in Vail, Colo., an arson that caused $12 million in damage and is considered the most destructive act of eco-terrorism in U.S. history.
ELF is loosely organized. Anyone who carries out an action under the group's guidelines and claims responsibility as part of the organization is considered a member. Over the past year, its name has been attached to a string of vandalism in Pennsylvania.
Last month, the group's Web site said ELF members and cells from the Animal Liberation Front set a Nov. 26 fire at a mink farm in Erie. The fire destroyed a barn, but no animals or people were harmed.
The group also claimed responsibility for an Aug. 11 fire at an unoccupied forest research station near Warren and the torching in March of a construction crane at a bridge work site in Erie, Rudge said.
ELF's claims of responsibility typically come through its Web site, where managers say they serve only as a media conduit for the group. A manager who did not provide an identity said in an e-mail that the communique about Wednesday's fire came in anonymously, as do all reports of ELF attacks.
Rudge said that communique, posted on the Web site, appeared to be authentic because it included information that hadn't been made public.
01/04/03 15:10 EST |
| 32 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| tericee |
Posted - 01/28/2003 : 9:49:00 PM
More on SUVs:
Aiding terrorism?
Violence is also on the minds of those promoting a campaign scheduled
to kick off Sunday, Jan. 12, the Wall Street Journal reported Jan. 8. On Sunday the Detroit Project, a coalition headed by columnist Arianna Huffington, is scheduled to begin airing TV ads in several U.S. cities, accusing SUVs of leading to higher U.S. imports of oil.
The oil imported by the United States, alleges the ad, comes from
countries that help finance anti-American terrorists. SUV owners, says the argument, are thus guilty of indirectly supporting terror groups, by sending more money to these countries.
The Wall Street Journal observed that the auto industry loves SUVs
because the profit on each vehicle sold can reach up to $10,000. One in four vehicles sold last year in the United States was an SUV, said the Journal, citing statistics from Autodata Corporation, an industry research firm.
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| bethany |
Posted - 01/23/2003 : 6:41:50 PM
Thank you Fluffy !!! Seems like you and Tim are close, by the looks of the photos. Maybe we'll meet one day through Tim ! I appreciate your e-mail reply so soon. Okay, signing off. PEACE! ~... BETHANY P.S. I'm trying to send some pics of me, I'm not very computer savvy !  See, I tried to make a smiley face winking. Oh Well.   Bye !!!!  HEY IT WORKED !!   |
| Fluffy |
Posted - 01/23/2003 : 6:07:22 PM
Evergreen wrote in another thread linked above: quote:
Hey it's not fair if you post 19 so you can get 20!
New rules! If your posting FJM on #20, you can't be the 19th post.
HaHa! You must follow this rule to the letter or there will be huge
consequences. Got that HTG?
(Fluffy turns to pcbTIM to add this to the list of UNWRITTEN message board stuff. We need an update. I like this one. THANX pcbTIM, GP of the TRTF MB)
Got your message Bethany, I will pass it along to TR next TIMe I speak to him. |
| tericee |
Posted - 01/21/2003 : 10:00:47 PM
Good advice, Pam. |
| PJK |
Posted - 01/21/2003 : 8:09:23 PM
Bethany, welcome. Just a thought. If you come back and read this, I wouldn't advise posting your phone # like that on a message board. I don't know what the ratio of regulars/visitors are but you never know who could be reading this. Some things are better left to emails only. You can delete your phone # if you want to. Just hit the edit icon (pencil) and delete.
Due to the upcoming shows I am sure Fluffy probably has hundreds of emails so give him time. He will read yours eventually. If you have waited 15 years I can imagine you can wait a few days more. After all Tim hasn't been in hiding. |
| CPPJames |
Posted - 01/21/2003 : 7:59:00 PM
Fort Lauderdale rules! I gotta head over there sometime.
Just thinking outloud.
James |
| bethany |
Posted - 01/21/2003 : 7:44:40 PM
Hey Fluffy, I'm wondering if you recieved my e-mail? My name is BETHANY BYRNSIDE. I am an old friend of TIMs and I sent you an e-mail with a message for him, hoping you would relay it to him. I,m not a stupid groupie [ maybe that's what you were thinking ]. I've know Tim from before the Shifting Currants cd with TR3. Just lost contact after he moved to NM. We were friends from Richmond, VA. That's where I lived before moving to FL. It was 15yrs. ago so just remind him I WORKED across the street from SAM MILLERS CAFE IN THE HAIR SALON. I know he will glad to hear from me so PLEASE give him this message. My e-mail is blbyrnside@cs.com .......Thank you so much ! BETHANY |
| pcbTIM |
Posted - 01/17/2003 : 9:41:42 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Fluffy
One spot features a hapless SUV driver named ''George'' pumping gas into his vehicle while an oil company executive steps into a limousine and a group of turban-wearing soldiers fire automatic rifles into the air.
''This is George,'' a child says in a sing-song voice. ''This is the gas that George bought for his SUV. This is the oil company executive that sold the gas that George bought for his SUV. These are the countries where the executive bought the oil, that made the gas that George bought for his SUV. And these are the terrorists who get money from those countries every time George fills up his SUV.''
''Oil money supports some terrible things. What kind of mileage does your SUV get?'' the ad concludes.
Haha. I saw this on the Daily Show with John Stewert. Pretty funny that they were making a parody of a parody. And as John said, "The first thing we need to do is.......get rid if this George fella!" |
| Evergreen |
Posted - 01/17/2003 : 4:25:55 PM
Notice:
http://www.timreynolds.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2990
Post number 21...Heehee! I'm laughing but this is no joke |
| victorwootenfan |
Posted - 01/13/2003 : 4:55:51 PM
5 minutes!! I posted it, then checked it again a few hours later, no wonder! heheh, j/k! |
| {=HTG=} |
Posted - 01/12/2003 : 7:45:55 PM
I must have left it sitting at 19 for at least 5 min. muhahahahaha! |
| victorwootenfan |
Posted - 01/12/2003 : 7:10:18 PM
damnation! i'm too late...i set it up and everything(crys to himself hyseterically...) |
| {=HTG=} |
Posted - 01/12/2003 : 6:33:02 PM
Or not...thats fine, I see how it is.
Flaming Moe anyone?  |
| {=HTG=} |
Posted - 01/12/2003 : 6:27:25 PM
VWF, top me off man. |
| victorwootenfan |
Posted - 01/12/2003 : 6:25:17 PM
everytime is think of the organization ELF i think of little skinny midgets with malatov cocktails flaming buildings, similar to a flamine moe. |
| Fluffy |
Posted - 01/11/2003 : 06:51:36 AM
Thanx for the in-depth post there Evergreen, very informative. I wish more folks could see the light. Sychronistically speaking, as I returned from work tonight, I was listening to Valerie Carter's cover of Neil Young's After the Gold Rush thinking how apropos it still is. It makes one stop and THINK!!!(I HOPE) |
| victorwootenfan |
Posted - 01/10/2003 : 5:39:34 PM
What i've heard about ELF is from my vegetarian friend who said it's just a bunch of random people who do shit(like vandalize) and blame it on ELF. it's not an actual organization at all, more like a violent running gag... |
| Evergreen |
Posted - 01/10/2003 : 11:58:59 AM
http://www.friendlystranger.com/info/hemp_01/hempcarto3.htm
http://www.artistictreasure.com/learnmorecleanair.html
http://www.taima.org/en/ya991003.htm
http://www.lca-uk.org/man/fuel.html
http://www.hempnation.com/
There are thousands of other websites. And many on alternative fueled autos.
Like Fluffy said, If you replace the word car with the word SUV in the above articles it would make more sense. I spend tons of time learning about the effects of burning fossil fuels and alternatives such as renewable sources of energy, i.e. HEMP etc. The burning of FF is the basis for another Evergreen thesis. If you look back to the beginning of the industrial revolution and look at some of the most common environmental diseases such as cancer or asthma,(all of which continue to increase drastically) you will see cause and effect and parallels. Just take skin cancer alone and look at its history. I get the biggest kick out of the "officials" who say, "we have no proof that our ozone has been reduced or affected by the burning of fossil fuels or its relationship to things like skin cancer". Which, by the way, has been increasing steadily for the past 20 years right along with increased burning of FF and the reduction of the ozone. It doesn't take a scholar to figure it out or see the relationship. Everything from global warming to human health is affected by burning fossil fuels. Granted, we are an advanced country and have lots of luxuries, but if it means destroying the air, water, trees, mountains, animals, and people, then what really IS the point. I'd take primitive to keep all those things in a minute. In Neil Youngs song After the Gold Rush, he talks about finding a new place to take Mother Nature's silver seed in outerspace so that when we ruin Earth, we can fly off and start Mother Nature on another planet. That song was written in the early 70's. He sang it at Farmaid this year and introduced the song by saying, "unfortunately the lyrics to this song are still relevant, more so than ever"! Hemp would really help farm families in this country too!
The above articles seem to be stretching the definition of rogue nation terrorism, but if it gets more people to be more aware of alternatives to gasoline great! I'm guessing if crap head Bush had it his way he'd drill and tear up all the national forests and trees looking for oil. He's said it on numerous occasions and has tried on several occasions to get it approved. If you ask me he's the biggest terrorist.
Sorry to ramble on.
|
| Fluffy |
Posted - 01/10/2003 : 04:46:26 AM
As I pointed out in my introductory paragraph, I am not sure this is the reason behind the eco-terrorists, but I am sure it is part of it somehow and yes it does seem a bit hypocritical, just like starting fires. Will people ever learn? |
| Erich |
Posted - 01/10/2003 : 04:24:31 AM
does anyone find the irony in an organization so bent on stopping the harful emisions caused by suvs BURNING THEM thereby sending even more harmful shit into the atmosphere? |
| Fluffy |
Posted - 01/10/2003 : 03:41:00 AM
Well I think I found out what they have against SUV's. It is still not clear to me what ecoterrorists have against them but obviously this new campaign is accusing SUV drivers of supporting terrorism by buying gasoline. Sorry, but I feel that all cars use gasoline, correct me if I am wrong here. Yes, SUV's may use more gas than your average volkswagen but if you really want to put a dent in terrorism thru gasoline, why don't we switch to HEMP. I know I seem to harp on this alot but if they are so against SUV's go the whole mile and ban cars all together and find a alternative source of fuel. HEMP or did I mention HEMP maybe. Anyway, here is what I have come across. A story and a 2 new commercials they are running against SUV's in particular. I have provided the story and the text from the ads, see what you think.
TV ads link SUV's and Terrorism
by Gina Keating Reuteurs
LOS ANGELES (Jan. 9) - A new front opened in the U.S. ''war on terror'' on Wednesday as pundit Arianna Huffington and three Hollywood pals launched a TV ad campaign to stop Americans from driving sport utility vehicles because the gas-guzzling autos inadvertently aid the country's enemies.
In two spots scheduled to begin running on Sunday, Huffington and her friends, who call themselves The Detroit Project, try to plant the idea that driving the hot-selling mammoth vehicles is unpatriotic.
The ads, which will appear through Friday in New York, Los Angeles, Detroit and Washington, D.C., parody the government's public service campaign against drug-sponsored terrorism, and aim to kindle public demand for tougher fuel efficiency.
''The goal of the campaign is not to demonize people who drive SUVs,'' Huffington said. ''We want to point out how our driving habits at home are fueling oil money to Saudi Arabia.''
One spot features a hapless SUV driver named ''George'' pumping gas into his vehicle while an oil company executive steps into a limousine and a group of turban-wearing soldiers fire automatic rifles into the air.
''This is George,'' a child says in a sing-song voice. ''This is the gas that George bought for his SUV. This is the oil company executive that sold the gas that George bought for his SUV. These are the countries where the executive bought the oil, that made the gas that George bought for his SUV. And these are the terrorists who get money from those countries every time George fills up his SUV.''
''Oil money supports some terrible things. What kind of mileage does your SUV get?'' the ad concludes.
THREAT TO NATIONAL SECURITY
In a series of close-ups, the second ad explores the purported consequences of buying foreign oil, juxtaposed with excuses people make for buying SUVs: ''I helped hijack an airplane.'' ''I like to sit up high.'' ''I helped blow up a nightclub.'' ''It makes me feel safe.'' ''I sent our soldiers off to war.''
''What is your SUV doing to national security?'' it asks. ''Detroit, America needs hybrid cars now.''
Affiliates of the Walt Disney Co.-owned ABC network in New York and Los Angeles have refused to air the ads because they are too controversial, Huffington said. The spots appear Sunday on network stations and for the rest of the week on cable TV news channels.
Huffington planted the seeds for The Detroit Project in her nationally syndicated column in October by fantasizing about a people's ad campaign taking the government to task for failing to pass tougher fuel efficiency standards while waging war to protect cheap oil.
Readers flooded her ''in'' basket with more than 5,000 letters by the next morning, asking where to send money for the mythical campaign. Within three weeks she had raised $200,000 to pay for a week of airtime and production of the ads.
Huffington recruited her hiking pal Laurie David, wife of ''Seinfeld'' creator Larry David, who had convinced her to swap her gas-guzzling Lincoln Navigator for a fuel-efficient Toyota Prius, and film producer Lawrence Bender and talent agent Ari Emanuel to guide the spots through production.
Although they had budgeted $50,000 to produce the spots, written by ''Got Milk?'' creator Scott Burns, most of the costs were waived when people learned about the project, Burns said.
The Detroit Project founders said plans to expand the campaign to more cities or to make new ads must await the public's response -- and their money.
''Some people will think we went too far. I personally wanted to be very confrontational,'' Bender said. ''Sept. 11 was very confrontational.''
Reut03:17 01-09-03
HERE IS A TRANSCRIPT OF THE 2 ADS THEY ARE RUNNING:
Script of Detroit Project SUV Ads
From www.thedetroitproject.com
Ad 1: "Talking Head/Parody"
"I helped hijack an airplane. I helped blow up a nightclub. So what if it gets 11 miles to the gallon. I gave money to a terrorist training camp in a foreign country. It makes me feel safe. I helped our enemies develop weapons of mass destruction. What if I need to go off-road? Everyone has one. I helped teach kids around the world to hate America. I like to sit up high. I sent our soldiers off to war. Everyone has one. My life, my SUV. I don't even know how many miles it gets to the gallon."
WHAT IS YOUR SUV DOING TO OUR NATIONAL SECURITY? DETROIT, AMERICA NEEDS HYBRID CARS NOW.
www.thedetroitproject.com
Paid for by The Detroit Project
Ad 2: "George Head/Parody"
"This is George. This is the gas that George bought for his SUV. This is the oil company executive that sold the gas that George bought for his SUV. These are the countries where the executive bought the oil, that made the gas that George bought for his SUV. And these are the terrorists who get money from those countries every time George fills up his SUV."
OIL MONEY SUPPORTS SOME TERRIBLE THINGS. WHAT KIND OF MILEAGE DOES YOUR SUV GET?
www.thedetroitproject.com
Paid for by The Detroit Project
IF THEY CARE ABOUT HOW GASOLINE HELPS TERRORISM, THEN ALL GASOLINE PRODUCTS SHOULD BE BANNED AND A NEW SOURCE OF FUEL UNDERTAKEN. HEMP |
| Fluffy |
Posted - 01/07/2003 : 11:48:53 PM
It's from at least 3 years ago I think. I think I used to see them when I still lived with Mikee. Anyway, you didn't miss much, just another dumb commercial. Like the "gotta make the doughnuts" line, I use the "Don't worry, we'll make more!" line alot as well. |
| tericee |
Posted - 01/07/2003 : 11:45:45 PM
If it's recent, then it's all because of the TiVo. TiVo rocks - when it works.
|
| Fluffy |
Posted - 01/07/2003 : 11:30:16 PM
That's OK, but it is hard to believe that with my limited TV viewing I have actually seen a commercial that you haven't. HEHE |
| tericee |
Posted - 01/07/2003 : 11:11:45 PM
ohhhhhh. I guess I missed that commercial. Sorry. |
| Fluffy |
Posted - 01/07/2003 : 11:10:44 PM
NOTHING, didn't you ever see the commercial with Jay Leno, "Keep eating, we'll make more!"
So I was joking, "Keep burning, we'll make more!" |
| tericee |
Posted - 01/07/2003 : 8:54:20 PM
What do you have against Doritos? |
| Fluffy |
Posted - 01/07/2003 : 3:04:56 PM
That makes sense to me Bustoff, but like you, I don't see it as justification for BURNING STUFF. I would be more impressed if they were doing it just for the fun of it. HEHE j/k I think a better way to resolve or draw attention to their complaint is by educating people about the issue, not random acts of violence. The way I see it, nothing was accomplished by burning a few SUV's, they are like doritos, "They will make more!" Terrorism in any way shape or form is just chickenshit behavior, in my humble opinion. I am proud to live in a country where I can speak my mind and my opinion(even if noone listens or cares)but I can't justify hurting others or other peoples property to further my cause. That doesn't make them much better than the organizations they despise. Anyway, I will jump off my soapbox. If anyone else has any speculations or concrete reasons these whackjobs are burning shit, I would love to hear them.
I just don't get it, if you have a problem with something, ACT LIKE A NUT. Oh yeah, great way to get your point across. I feel you only make it easier for the people you are supposedly rebelling against to portray you as a lunatic fringe, nut bag with no brains. Who is going to listen to someone like that. Use your intelligence to convince others of your position, then the opposition will actually have to address your grievances, instead of just telling everyone what a bunch of crazed idiots you are. The appearance to others is that THEY might be right, you probably are just a idiot, nutbag. Don't help them win support for the cause you are trying to bring down. Woops, looks like I got back up on my soapbox. Sorry! |
| Jay |
Posted - 01/04/2003 : 11:43:07 PM
"oh, these SUV's pollute way too much! Let's burn them and do worse for the environment than a whole damn troup of thes things would do! Arise dangerous fumes!" |
| PJK |
Posted - 01/04/2003 : 11:42:07 PM
Good thought about the gas milage. SUV's have become a status symbol. A lot of people buy them because they are 4 wheel drive but they really don't even need it. Personally I love my minivan....no status there but it has what I need....room to haul people and "junk" hehe. I think they exaggerate the MPG on those stickers though because I have yet to get the kind of MPG they listed and I don't think it is my driving. I'd love to know how they come up with those figures. Anyway it has to be better on fuel than an SUV! |
| Bustoff |
Posted - 01/04/2003 : 11:21:09 PM
I would guess that their reasons have to do with the low effeciency of SUV engines. One reason people buy them is for their huge, powerful engines, which burn gas like crazy, thus abusing the use of our natural resources. They have very poor gas mileage. Unfortunately a lot of SUV owners don't need that kind of power, they just want the extra room. These are mainly young parents who think they're too cool to buy a mini-van, i'm guessing. Mini-vans are much more effecient, thus giving better gas mileage, thus being easier on our resources.
I know i'm kinda down-talking SUV's, but don't confuse me with these nuts who are burning up the earth they claim to be liberating. I don't know what these idiots think they're going to accomplish. |
| PJK |
Posted - 01/04/2003 : 10:35:03 PM
Sorry, read this(Just saw this on AOL) but even though I live in PA I had not heard anything about it. Ofcourse PA is a big state! Have no clue why they are upset with SUV's it seems they would be more upset with ATVs but maybe up North they are driving all over the fields tearing up the land with their SUV's. They can do a number on the land especially after a rain.
I can't justify starting fires for any reason. It seems a very immature way to solve a problem. "You destroy something, we'll destroy something." How dumb is that???? Not to mention that any one of those fires had the potential to harm or kill someone.
They're sicko's if you ask me! |
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