| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Evergreen |
Posted - 12/04/2002 : 2:16:35 PM
Because my work entails emergency management/bioterrorism stuff, they are asking if I'd be willing to be one of the first people to get a small pox vaccine. In case of a confirmed case in the united states, certain first responders in my line of work are being asked to get immunized so we could be protected(?) and vaccinate other people. I have some serious issues with this whole line of thought. First of all small pox is all over the press all the TIMe. Do you think it would be in a terrorists best interest to attack us with a disease we are prepared for? Judging from the intricate plan on 9/11, I think they are a bit smarter than this. There are several terror diseases to choose from and we are spending LOTS of TIMe and money on small pox. Another problem I have is the quickness with which this new vaccine was developed. Haste makes mistakes. There are/ can be serious side effects from recieving the vaccine including getting small pox and death, along with several other yucky ones and that's when they make it correctly. The probability for these side effects is quite high. Too high for comfort. People above me like my supervisor are acting like I already said yes and as if it is expected because of the other work I do and my involvement with other bioterrorism/epidemeology things. It's not that I'm not dedicated, because I wouldn't be in this line of work at all. It's that I don't trust these larger institutions of which I won't specifically name with my life. I'm pretty positive what my answer is but would love some of your opinions |
| 31 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Evergreen |
Posted - 01/05/2003 : 08:17:02 AM
quote:
I highly suggest reading "War on Iraq:What Team Bush Doesn't Want You To Know", they cover the whole bioterrorism scenarios (p.33-38)
I agree!! This book sheds some interesting light.
I was going to mention the smallpox on Indian blankets but Fluffy beat me to it. I think of that alot during all this. Our govt KNOWS all about using bioterrorism. And I fully believe.....It's Karma!!!!
Coming back to kick us in the ass! Our govt is STILL involved in genocide against Indians its just hidden! I won't get started on that, but isn't it also interesting that the most recent band of terrorist threats came in thru the Indian reservation in upstate New York.
D500 Congrats on getting your MD! You must be so psyched its almost over. What an accomplishment! |
| PJK |
Posted - 01/03/2003 : 8:53:23 PM
Hey Dickey500....I hear ya...and agree although almost no one on this board will.
BTW I was going to school to become a veterinarian....met my husband in a pig barn and ended up getting married....baby a year later and never got to go back to finish. It's all good though, I get to work with special ed. kids and I love them!
Congrats on the soon to have, MD title.....and God Bless you! You have my greatest admiration! |
| Fluffy |
Posted - 01/03/2003 : 8:40:14 PM
HMMMMM, is that the same GOVT that introduced it to the American Indians on blankets. Forgive me if I have a little less faith in our govt than the rest. Rarely do I feel they have OUR interests at heart. I think this is more of THEIR scare campaign to help support their justifications for WAR for OIL. As you said yourself, it has all but been wiped out. I highly suggest reading "War on Iraq:What Team Bush Doesn't Want You To Know", they cover the whole bioterrorism scenarios (p.33-38) and how they are VERY unlikely to be an actual threat. The book is written by William Rivers Pitts with former UN Weapons Inspector Scott Ritter. Based on the info gathered the first TIMe around, there is very little likelihood of there being any kind of threat. Our govt would like to scare us into supporting their efforts in this area and Sept 11th has served Bush well in this cause. |
| Dickey500 |
Posted - 01/03/2003 : 4:17:17 PM
In a short 4 and a half months I'll have the lovely little letters "MD" following my name - so perhaps I can help shed a little light/insight/opinion into the whole smallpox conversation.
As most of you know, smallpox was eliminated from North America thanks to our friend the smallpox vaccine. The vaccine they currently have on the market is the exact same vaccine they used 50 years ago - however they've discovered that the original dose can be diluted down about 10x. So, you'll be getting the same vaccination that your parents got 50 years ago - in a much less concentrated form.
The people who are most at risk when getting the vaccine are those who have weakened immune systems (i.e - HIV patients, the elderly, the very young, etc). Your average adult has very little to worry about. If you're truly concerned about the vaccine, ask your parents (and any other people you know who got the vaccine years ago) if they knew anyone who died. My guess is that the answer will be "no."
And no, there's no government plot involving the SP vaccine. It's a nasty disease that has wiped out millions of people in the past...it's a tough call, but I think it's worth it in the long run.
Also, all of the studies involving vaccine-related deaths were conducted in 1968...medicine and treatments have advanced significantly since then. If you need more info, go to www.cdc.gov and look up smallpox. |
| Fluffy |
Posted - 01/03/2003 : 04:49:56 AM
Dammit, I missed it. What is going on with the vaccine? Are they forcing you to get it yet? Voluntarily of course, HEHE. |
| Evergreen |
Posted - 12/20/2002 : 4:43:16 PM
One of my absolute favorite songs. It's quite near and dear to my heart because I buy king spools of dental floss which i use for my fabric design. 10,000 feet on a roll. Not many people have seen that much dental floss at once. Gonna be a dental floss tycoon.
As for Montana, I wouldn't go there to hide. Too many grizzly bears.
By the way tomorrow is Franks birthday.
|
| Fluffy |
Posted - 12/20/2002 : 05:30:32 AM
I might be movin' to Montana soon
Just to raise me up a crop of
Dental Floss
Raisin' it up
Waxin' it down
In a little white box
I can sell uptown
By myself I wouldn't
Have no boss,
But I'd be raisin' my lonely
Dental Floss
Raisin' my lonely
Dental Floss
Well I just might grow me some bees
But I'd leave the sweet stuff
For somebody else...but then, on the other hand I'd
Keep the wax
N' melt it down
Pluck some Floss
N' swish it aroun'
I'd have me a crop
An' it'd be on top (that's why I'M movin' to)
Movin' to Montana soon
Gonna be a Dental Floss tycoon (yes I am)
Movin' to Montana soon
Gonna be a mennil-toss flykune
I'm pluckin' the ol'
Dennil Floss
That's growin' on the prairie
Pluckin' the floss!
I plucked all day an' all nite an' all
Afternoon...
I'm ridin' a small tiny hoss
(His name is MIGHTY LITTLE)
He's a good hoss
Even though
He's a bit dinky to strap a big saddle or
Blanket on anyway
He's a bit dinky to strap a big saddle or
Blanket on anyway
Any way
I'm pluckin' the ol'
Dennil Floss
Even if you think it is a little silly, folks
I don't care if you think it's silly, folks
I don't care if you think it's silly, folks
I'm gonna find me a horse
Just about this big
An' ride him all along the border line
With a
Pair of heavy-duty
Zircon-encrusted tweezers in my hand
Every other wrangler would say
I was mighty grand
By myself I wouldn't
Have no boss
But I'd be raisin' my lonely
Dental Floss
Raisin' my lonely
Dental Floss
Raisin' my lonely
Dental Floss
Well I might
Ride along the border
With my tweezers gleamin'
In the moon-lighty night
And then I'd
Get a cuppa cawfee
N' give my foot a push...
Just me 'n the pymgy pony
Over the Dennil Floss Bush
N' then I might just
Jump back on
An' ride
Like a cowboy
Into the dawn to Montana
Movin' to Montana soon
(Yippy-Ty-O-Ty-Ay)
Movin' to Montana soon
|
| enthuTIMsiast |
Posted - 12/19/2002 : 11:23:11 AM
Well, you can run to MS. No one looks for anything here. "right" you say. "montana would be safer". HA, that's where they draw you in...Montana's the big vast state with few people...so what? That's where they look first. MS...that's the safe place. |
| Evergreen |
Posted - 12/18/2002 : 08:53:41 AM
No I'm not getting it. I went to an information seminar with the state
epidemiologist the other day to get all the info and she kept saying
"at this point it is voluntary" and "right now you have a choice".
That didn't make me feel too comfortable. When asked what she meant she would not elaborate. She kept repeating the above statements.
At the point when it is NOT voluntary, you will only catch a streak of color as I disappear into the horizon. I know it sounds crappy, but I'd be gone so fast with no trace the minute something like that is NOT voluntary. I just have a HUGE problem with people doing something to my body when they don't have my permission |
| Fluffy |
Posted - 12/18/2002 : 04:58:21 AM
Sounds like you have decided NOT to get the vaccine, are going to let you NOT do it? I am guessing it will be mandatory, although they won't say it outloud. Don't get the shot, don't get your next promotion, something like that. I wouldn't be a bit surprised. GOOD LUCK, and LMK what happens. |
| Evergreen |
Posted - 12/11/2002 : 09:31:57 AM
Pam said:quote:
but I do kind of wonder, if you have all the info. from all the right sources and you have obviously made up your mind not to get the vaccine, why you are even posting about it????
On several occasions the people on the board have discussed some in- depth conspiracies seen in the US (I'm not sure you've been around long enough to have seen them). I highly value the opinion of this group based on those past topics and based on the support everyone offers on numerous situations that come up. I also feel like I need support around the subject since everyone on my professional end of it seems to think its not a real big deal. It's kind of like how those same people throw around the term bioterrorism like its a second nature commonality. It's so common the people I work with refer to it as BT and go around saying "BT" like its a natural state of affairs. I choose to look a little deeper into things and question what has become common place. I may know about side effects and statistics of smallpox, simply because I've read about it, but I certainly don't claim to know WHY it's all happening and WHERE it's going to lead the country. Which is WHY I opened it up for discussion here. I don't think it's a good idea for people to stick their heads in the sand and go about as if nothing is happening. Once again, The more people who know about it and think about it and question it, the better chance this country might have in the future, esp with a war hungry leader. There are always two things I can count on here. Intelligent discussion (interspersed with a funny comment, usually from pcbTIM) and sincere support. That's why I even posted the topic here in the first place. |
| enthuTIMsiast |
Posted - 12/11/2002 : 08:32:14 AM
quote:
New Mexico's plan requests 20,000 doses of the smallpox vaccine to cover 12,000 first responders, as well as those who might replace them over time through natural staff turnover.
"natural staff turnover" ... right ... or smallpox vaccine related deaths ... ? |
| Fluffy |
Posted - 12/11/2002 : 05:47:58 AM
PJK commented: quote:
It isn't recommended for gen. pop. because the disease has been eradicated, not because of the risk factors alone.
I certainly don't want you to feel like we are ganging up on you. I only provide this since it contradicts some of your earlier comments.
Riddle me this Batman!!
12,000 to Get N.M. Smallpox Shot
Associated Press 12/10/2002
SANTA FE - As many as 12,000 New Mexicans will get smallpox vaccinations over a six- to nine-month period under a plan unveiled by the state Department of Health.
The plan calls for voluntary smallpox vaccinations to begin around mid-January.
Medical workers will be the first to receive the shots, followed by emergency response workers, law enforcement and additional health care workers.
In addition, one hospital, followed later by two others, will be designated to handle possible side effects of the vaccine. The shots can cause serious side effects, and even death, in some people.
Fears of bioterrorism have led the federal government to instruct states to draw up vaccination plans. Those plans were due Monday to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
New Mexico's plan requests 20,000 doses of the smallpox vaccine to cover 12,000 first responders, as well as those who might replace them over time through natural staff turnover.
The plan spreads the vaccinations over a longer time period than the 30 days suggested in the federal guidelines.
Dr. Ron Voorhees, deputy state epidemiologist, pointed out Monday that there has not been an outbreak of smallpox.
"We have not heard anything to increase the urgency further," he said. "Our viewpoint is to make sure we minimize any adverse effects in a cautious, orderly time frame."
State Epidemiologist Mack Sewell, who participated in conference calls among states on this issue, said he doubts anyone will pull off the vaccinations in a month.
New Mexico's plan calls for vaccinating in four stages.
In the first six weeks of the program, a 120-member central vaccination team will get its shots. The team will include public health workers and epidemiologists from Albuquerque and Santa Fe, as well as health care workers in one hospital where people with reactions to the shots would be routed.
Health officials would not say Monday which hospital that would be.
In the following four to six weeks, 380 more people will be vaccinated, including expanded public health teams, two more hospitals and members of disaster medical assistance teams.
In another two or three months, 2,500 more people would be vaccinated, including health care workers at regional hospitals and some National Guard, ambulance and law enforcement personnel.
The final stage, which would take three months, would vaccinate 9,000 more people, including primary care doctors and staff.
"What remains to be seen is how many health care workers will actually volunteer for this," Sewell said.
Most Albuquerque hospital representatives said Monday that they didn't know yet how many and which workers they would vaccinate.
The exception was the VA Medical Center, where spokesman Michael Kleiman said the hospital is forming a core vaccination team with one or two physicians and eight or nine registered nurses. In addition, about 100 staff members will be immunized, he said.
©Santa Fe New Mexican 2002
|
| Evergreen |
Posted - 12/10/2002 : 4:23:56 PM
quote:
Again, I would say that those who choose to get the vaccine not to worry about side effects. They aren't any greater than with any other vaccine.
Where are you getting your info? Please don't tell people this!!! I don't mean to be obnoxious, but THE SIDE EFFECTS ARE ALOT MORE DANGEROUS THAN OTHER VACCINATIONS.
I work on the state immunization team and I have information that says and proves otherwise.
If you want I can email you fact sheets and info. It IS more dangerous than others. It's the reason they stopped giving the vaccine in the 70's and if it weren't as dangerous there wouldn't be so much discussion as to whether to give it to the public, we'd just go ahead and vaccinate everyone. Gangrene, necrosis, blood infection leading to encephalitis and death are jusT SOME of the side effects that are considerably common.
Again, please don't tell people the statement above, it is incorrect.
Thanx, I don't mean to be rude, but it's important that NOONE goes around with the wrong info on something like this. It will eventually affect all of us |
| {=HTG=} |
Posted - 12/10/2002 : 4:04:49 PM
A flaming moe anyone? |
| Evergreen |
Posted - 12/10/2002 : 2:43:34 PM
I'm sorry, I didn't mean it that way to you. I should have said so in the first place. It's a touchy subject for me. I should just drop it. I know what my answer is and now I don't feel guilty about not going out and protecting the public. It took me awhile but I have put my finger on the REAL reason for the rush to vaccinate a certain number of people.
George Bush wants to declare war on Iraq, but knows they have small pox. It was obtained from Russian stores when the Soviet Union disintegrated. If we go to war with Iraq they will be backed into a corner and feel forced to retaliate with something huge i.e. smallpox. The faster a certain number of health care people are vaccinated the faster we can invade iraq and feel like we have some kind of handle on things if bioagents are used. When the officials from the health dept first started talking about smallpox vaccine it was set to begin in the spring or summer 2003. Then it moved up to January 2003. Now they want to do it at the end of the month. It keeps getting moved closer and closer. Paralleling Georges urge to declare war and invade. Therefore if I agree to get vaccinated, I'm in a sense supporting war. That's my theory. |
| enthuTIMsiast |
Posted - 12/10/2002 : 11:34:59 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Evergreen
Thanx again Fluffy!!! Besides Baba, you are the only one I've talked to who has been supportive to my view!
Whoa...I must not have been clear in what I was saying at the very first of this thread. Or maybe you mean that you haven't talked to me about it. Either way... oh well. |
| Evergreen |
Posted - 12/10/2002 : 11:31:07 AM
Thanx for understanding Fluffy! You seem to be the only one who gets it!!!! It's not just a simple "oh I've had it before its OK to get it again". The pressure has increased this week at work as we are getting close to the TIMe when it will be given, at the end of the month. Everyone seems to have the same "no big deal attitude". An interesting side note..... Neither my director nor my nursing supervisor are getting the vaccine because they are single parents!
You probably did have it again in the military Fluffy. It was one of the routine ones prior to 1989. It still riles the hell out of me that those vaccines were not VOLUNTARY!!!! My friend Eddie had to get anthrax vaccine before they knew it was safe. In fact they tested it on military people. But no one is supposed to know that. Pretty nasty that we ask people to risk their lives to protect the citizens and our country and then we use them for guinea pigs. I have to go now because I'm to riled up to post anymore.
Thanx again Fluffy!!! Besides Baba, you are the only one I've talked to who has been supportive to my view! |
| LizT |
Posted - 12/10/2002 : 08:44:32 AM
This is freaky, it works today. Something has gone right for a change. It will probably snow again! |
| Fluffy |
Posted - 12/10/2002 : 02:09:24 AM
That would explain why you aren't getting the edit icon, you have to be signed into the system. If you are having to sign on each TIMe you post, you shouldn't be getting the icon. Still sounds like something is rotten in Denmark. Maybe something happened when JS changed your screenname. I will be curious to see what his answer is. GOOD LUCK! |
| LizT |
Posted - 12/09/2002 : 7:53:33 PM
Thanks Fluffy, I left an instant message for Jon. I am still lacking the edit icon, oh well. The way things have been going I guess that is the least of my worries. I have to sign on everyTIMe I post too. Something is wrong..... |
| Fluffy |
Posted - 12/07/2002 : 05:40:56 AM
Sounds like a question for Mr. Soldo, the editing your post question that is. HEHE If you are signed in there should be a pen and paper icon above each of YOUR posts. If they aren't there, and you are signed in, I don't know what to tell you. Oh wait, yes I do, ASK JON SOLDO.
I still think the risk of sP being used against us is a much lower risk than taking the vaccine. I think they would use something like ebola before they would use sP. I have seen the govt kill with sP before and I am not setting myself up to be added to the govts death count from sP. |
| LizT |
Posted - 12/06/2002 : 4:20:07 PM
Hey Fluffy, I'm signed in and I still don't see the little edit icon?? Weird, huh....
I read Evergreen's post again. I still think I would take my chances with getting the vaccine over getting the disease. Since I work in a hospital I may be confronted with the same issue. The pictures of people with the disease just haunt me. When you think about it though, the terrorists know the country is trying to prepare for smallpox. How are we going to be protected if they bring out some other biological warfare that we don't have a chance, like E boli... I don't like to think about it, I hope it never comes to that. |
| Fluffy |
Posted - 12/06/2002 : 04:33:57 AM
Yes you can still edit your posts, but you have to be signed in. Then a little paper and pen icon will appear above YOUR post, click on it and edit away.
I think you may have missed what Evergreen was saying about the, what she feels is rushed, new vaccine.
Evergreen said: quote:
Another problem I have is the quickness with which this new vaccine was developed. Haste makes mistakes.
I think I also had the vaccine as a kid, so I am probably fairly safe from another dose, but I am with Evergreen on this, I want to know it is the best vaccine and not some rush job. I still don't think I would take it again, but those would be my conditions if forced HEHE. My scar has faded considerably since my youth, but I think I may have gotten another dose in the Army. Hey Evergreen, do you know if that is a standard vaccine for soldiers. The gave me so many shots I have no idea what they gave me. The could have given me the plague for all I know. They barely tell you, they just line you up in front of a table full of nurses and doctors and each one of them has the gun in their hand and you walk down the line and one after another they shoot you full of "stuff that's supposed to be good for you". "Did you try it?" "I'm not gonna try it!" "Hey, let's get Mikey!" "Yea, he won't eat it, he hates everything!" He likes it, HEY MIKEY!!" but I digress............... |
| LizT |
Posted - 12/05/2002 : 11:16:48 AM
oops, I mean the vaccine is probably more pure today. Am I stupid or can't you edit your messages anymore??? And I mean I felt really bad from the shot. |
| LizT |
Posted - 12/05/2002 : 11:13:06 AM
I am the old one in the bunch here and had the vaccine as a kid, and still have the scar to prove it. I'm still kicking. LOL! The vaccine is probably more pure and less harmful when i got it. I remember felling bad from it though, I slept a lot. I would get it again because I'm sure I lack the antibodies now. We have some pretty gruesome photos hanging up at work with child infected with smallpox. It's not pretty.... |
| Fluffy |
Posted - 12/05/2002 : 07:11:01 AM
Evergreen wrote: quote:
Because my work entails
YOU HAVE WORK ENTRAILS? WEIRD!!!
Seriously:
After hearing a story on the news about this, I wrestled with "would I get it". I have not come to a concrete answer, but I am with you, I doubt sP would be what they would hit us with. If you read my answer to your topic about nucleazation of space, then you can probably figure out that even if there is a low risk of bad, I am against it. I think I would rather take my risk that terrorists would use it than risk a vaccine that might do the same thing. I think in the world of probability, the risk of terrorists using sP is lower than the risk of something happening from the vaccine. I am leaning toward NO.
PS:I think is also worthy of note that someone other than you or me has finally made reference to ZAPPA!! YEAH!!!!! There may be hope for them yet. HEHE |
| Fleabass76 |
Posted - 12/04/2002 : 6:09:02 PM
I'm only afraid of the big pox. |
| Silky The Pimp |
Posted - 12/04/2002 : 2:57:57 PM
That's a negative ghostwriter...
A flu vaccine... worst case scenario, you get a cold. If you're saying side-effects of the new small pox vaccine are of a high probability with things like death... well that's just not fun. |
| enthuTIMsiast |
Posted - 12/04/2002 : 2:31:53 PM
I agree. I know you didn't say anything for me to agree with, but I agree nonetheless. You know what I mean.
On a separate note, but related, I feel your pain about "People above me like my supervisor are acting like I already said yes and as if it is expected". That happens here. Maybe it happens everywhere. It's the little things. "Initial this." Well what is it? "Oh it's ok, just put your initials here, that's all I need." What the fuck? Why should I sign something that I don't know about? Why should I get a vaccine that's in it's test phase at best (on real people)? Stuff like that really bothers me. I HATE putting my name beside something that I either had nothing to do with or even worse on something that I know isn't exactly right. It seems picky, but when it comes down to it, I could be the one to pay the price since I'm [at least one of] the initialers. Ah, I'm rambling again. Too much paint fumes.
|
| pcbTIM |
Posted - 12/04/2002 : 2:20:58 PM
If the X-Files has taught us anything, it's that the U.S. government has used the small pox vaccine to "keep tabs" on all its residents. |
|
|
