| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Fleabass76 |
Posted - 09/10/2002 : 10:39:37 PM
Ok, first off, as a disclaimer: I understand life was lost and it's horrible. I'm not in any way legitimizing the terrorist attacks on this country. I was personally affected, my mom lost her job and I know some people who actually lost family and friends in the attacks.
Now, for those of you who don't want to read alot, STOP NOW! I chose this forum to voice my opinions because I believe most of you are very open minded.
I am sick and tired of people in this country acting so suprised and outraged that we got attacked. It has just been a matter of time before it happened. This country has commited acts ten times as worse and no retaliation has occured. This government killed tens of thousands of INNOCENT civilians in Cambodia simply because their GOVERNMENT was something that our government didn't like.
In the 70's this country ASSASINATED Chili's DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED president just because he was going to give his countries workers a higher wage then $.05/hour. The american companies in Chili didn't like that so the US sent BOMBERS and bombed the capital building, killing the president and then setting up a puppet government loyal to the US.
I'm not saying this justifies us getting attacked, I'm saying that there's a big world and if we keep pissing people off like this, we should expect more attacks like this. When we attack a developing nation, they don't have the resources to retaliate like we do. And even so, by retaliating like this w/ Afghanistan, it's saying there's a different value to their lives than ours. An American life is the most important life there is. ALL LIFE IS PRECIOUS!
Fuck this America is #1 bullshit. Yeah, we're the leader, we are #1, we are a bully. We basically enslave the workers of third world nations and crush anybody who gets in our way. People get outraged when they see people burning an american flag on TV in the middle east. Maybe they should ask WHY. There's a reason for everything.
Right now I'm hoping nobody sends this to John Ashcroft cuz then I'm screwed. Maybe by even saying that name on the internet, it gets sent to some kind of ALERT thing and they're already on the way to come and incarcerate me or kill me, you know, because we live in a free country. Maybe I should go through official channels and write a letter to my congressman asking him to make a bill saying the government CAN'T KILL PEOPLE! It'll be like in Terminator 2 when the squeeky kid tells Arnold he can't kill. Yeah, sure, that will work...
So in summation: All life is important, not just american lives. If we keep treating people like crap the karma police will catch up to us. Do I have a solution? Not really, if I was a leader I would rally people and get them to publically question the leaders of this country. In the history of revolutions, only a small amount of the public was actually involved in the movement. It could be possible. But I'm not a leader, I'm just a bass player.
Peace
Kam
"Get up an move... or I'll put a curse on you... that all your children will be born naked." – Hendrix |
| 50 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Fluffy |
Posted - 10/28/2002 : 09:50:50 AM
I LOVE THIS THREAD!!!!
Thanx Teri for pointing out something that may not always be to obvious to others when I begin to rant. I am glad you notice and feel that way. Although, you have a little more background to go on with me that the rest of the folks. HEHE |
| pcbTIM |
Posted - 10/27/2002 : 4:19:38 PM
Thanks. I'll probably look into that once I get off of work. I'm studying for my calc test......and I know if I start going on the web (which is what I'm doing now), I won't get anything done. |
| Fleabass76 |
Posted - 10/27/2002 : 3:45:48 PM
He might have followed it up in the rest of his book, I don't know. I'm probably going to buy it one of these days. You can also check out his site, MichaelMoore.com, it has lots of cool info. |
| PJK |
Posted - 10/27/2002 : 11:36:28 AM
Thanks for the info. Great article, surprising, yet not so surprising.I love our country, but I don't trust our government. The only president, past or present, that I have any respect for is Jimmy Carter, and only because of his humanitarian works. Just goes to show that those who care the most can't survive the political bull shit.
It would be very interesting to hear Michael's updates. |
| enthuTIMsiast |
Posted - 10/27/2002 : 09:42:40 AM
Yeah, that was interesting. I shudder to think that it's right. I hope it's not. It doesn't make me hate Bush, however, except in the sense that he's a politician, and I've never found one of those that I think I can trust. But that was an interesting read. |
| pcbTIM |
Posted - 10/27/2002 : 06:56:57 AM
That's a good article. It's amazing how thick the wool over our eyes are someTIMes. Did he ever do any follow-ups? |
| Fleabass76 |
Posted - 10/27/2002 : 03:14:32 AM
This is an exerpt from Micheal Moore's new book:
"The Sad and Sordid Whereabouts of bin Cheney and bin Bush"
A Free Online Chapter addition to "Stupid White Men"
by Michael Moore
Part One: "What Does a 99-cent Bic Lighter Tell Us About the Bush War on Terrorism?"
On September 22, 2001, just 11 days after the terrorist attacks in New York and Arlington, I had to fly. I had actually wanted to fly on September 11, and in fact had a ticket on the 3:00pm American Airlines flight from LAX to JFK. As we all know, that flight never made it off the ground as hours earlier four California-bound flights, two on American and two on United, were hijacked as part of a coordinated suicide mission to attack the World Trade Center in New York City and the Pentagon outside Washington, DC.
Stranded in Los Angeles, my wife and I (out there for the annual Prime Time Emmy Awards for our series, "The Awful Truth"), were awakened that morning by my wife's mother, calling us from Flint at 6:15 a.m., L.A. time. I answered the phone and heard her say that "New York was under attack, New York is at war." I remember thinking, "So what's new," but she suggested we immediately turn on the TV. I fumbled for the remote and switched on the hotel room TV. And there it was. The twin towers on fire, black smoke billowing upward.
"OK," I thought, "a really bad fire." But then they ran the replay from 15 minutes earlier, of the second plane hitting the south tower. This wasn't an accident. We tried to call our daughter in New York. The phone lines weren't allowing any calls. We tried calling our friend, Joanne Doroshow, who works a few blocks from the towers. Again, the lines were jammed.
A horrible panic started settling inside me. Finally, I reached Joanne's office. A woman answered, frantic. I asked if Joanne was there. "NO!" she shouted. "She's not here! We have to go! Ohmygod!" She dropped the phone and I heard a loud roar, like a train. My wife said, "Look at the TV." I did, and I saw from L.A. what I was listening to over the phone: the collapse of the south tower.
It would be another four hours before we were able to reach our daughter, and seven hours before Joanne calls us, safe inside her apartment (she had ducked into a building just in time as the cloud of debris rained its way down the street).
That night, as we watched the images repeated on the TV, a ticker began running the names of some of the dead who had been on the planes. Along the bottom of the screen came the name, "William Weems." A friend of ours the next morning confirmed that this was, in fact, the same Bill Weems, a line producer from Boston with whom we had recently filmed a batch of humorous TV spots targeting the tobacco companies. Bill was on the Boston-to-L.A. plane. He died as the jet, traveling at 586 miles per hour, slammed into the south tower. He left behind a wife and 7-year old daughter. It was all so unbelievably horrific.
The airports were closed and all planes were now grounded. I found a Hertz dealer who would rent me a mini-van for $1,700 -- and 43 hours later we pulled out of our hotel on the Pacific Ocean and began our 2,990-mile journey home to our apartment in New York City.
Somewhere around Oklahoma City, the airports were all open again, but my wife did not want to ditch the mini-van and get on a plane. So we continued on home for the next few days, the first ever trip each of us had made driving coast to coast. It was, as it turned out, well worth it, as it gave us a chance to gauge the reaction of average citizens, especially as we passed through Bush and Ashcroft country (The internet letters I wrote – and read – from the road can be found on my website).
By September 22, I had no choice but to get back on a plane. I had been scheduled to give a talk in San Antonio, and so off I went on an American flight out of Newark. At the airport there was a newly, hastily put-together list of all the items that I could NOT bring aboard the plane. The list was long and bizarre. The list of banned items included:
No guns. (Obviously)
No knives. (Ditto)
No boxcutters. (Certainly now justified)
No toenail clippers. (What?)
No knitting needles. (Huh?)
No crotchet hooks. (Now, wait a minute!)
No sewing needles.
No mace.
No leaf blowers. (OK, now it's personal)
No corkscrews.
No letter openers.
No dry ice.
The list went on and on. A lot of the items made good sense. I wasn't quite sure if terrorists also made quilts in their spare time, and I guess I must have missed the terrorist incident where some poor bastards smuggled dry ice aboard a plane (were they trying to keep their Popsicles cold until they ate them and then used the sticks for their attack?).
Frankly, I was a little freaked-out about flying so soon after 9-11 and I guess there was just no way I was going to fly without a weapon for my protection. So I took the New York Yankees-signed baseball that Mayor Giuliani had given me on "TV Nation," put it in a sock, and – presto! Whip that baby upside somebody's head, and they're going to take a little nap. Note to budding terrorfuckers: If you try something on a flight I'm on, I'll Clemens ya. That, or the smell from my ratty sock, is going to do you in.
Though I now felt "safe" with my makeshift weapon, as I continued to fly through the fall and winter, I did NOT feel safe being greeted at airport security by weekend warriors from the National Guard holding empty M-16s and looking like they shop in the same "special needs" department at K-Mart which I visit from time to time.
More importantly, though, I kept noticing something strange. The guy in front of me, while emptying his pockets into the little plastic tray to run through the x-ray machine, would take out his butane lighter or matchbook, toss them into the tray, then pick them up on the other side -- in full view of security. At first I thought this was a mistake until I looked at the list of banned items again -- and saw that butane lighters and matchbooks were NOT on the forbidden list.
Then came December 22, 2001. Richard Reid, on an American Airlines flight from Paris to Miami, attempted to light his shoes on fire, using matches. His shoes, the police said, contained a plastic explosive and, had some passengers and flight attendants not taken quick action to restrain him, he would have been able to blow the entire plane out of the sky. But his lighter would not light the shoes fast enough, and everyone survived.
I was sure after this freakish incident that the lighters and matches would surely be banned. But, as my book tour began in February, there they were, the passengers with their Bic lighters and their books of matches. I asked one security person after another why these people were allowed to bring devices which could start a fire on board the plane, especially after the Reid incident. No one, not a single person in authority or holding an unloaded automatic weapon, could or would give me answer.
My simple question was this: If all smoking is prohibited on all flights, then why does ANYONE need their lighters and matches at 30,000 feet -- while I am up there with them?!
And why is the one device that has been used to try and blow up a plane since 9-11 NOT on the banned list? No one has used toenail clippers to kill anyone on Jet Blue, and no one has been blowing away the leaves in the aisle of the Delta Connection flight to Tupelo.
BUT SOME FRUITCAKE DID USE A BUTANE LIGHTER TO TRY AND KILL 200 PEOPLE ON AMERICAN AIRLINES FLIGHT #63. And this did nothing to force the Bush Administration to do something about it.
I began asking this question in front of audiences on my book tour. And it was on a dark and rainy night in Arlington, Virginia, at the Ollsson's Bookstore a couple miles from the Pentagon that I got my answer. After asking my Bic lighter question in my talk to the audience, I sat down to sign the books for the people in line. A young man walks up to the table, introduces himself, and lowering his voice so no one can hear, tells me the following:
"I work on the Hill. The butane lighters were on the original list prepared by the FAA and sent to the White House for approval. The tobacco industry lobbied the Bush administration to have the lighters and matches removed from the banned list. Their customers (addicts) naturally are desperate to light up as soon as they land, and why should they be punished just so the skies can be safe?
The lighters and matches were removed from the forbidden list.
I was stunned. I knew there had to be some strange reason why this most obvious of items had not been banned. Could the Bush mob be so blatant in their contempt for the public's safety? How could they do this, and at the same time, issue weekly warnings about the "next terrorist threat"? Would they really put Big Tobacco's demands ahead of people's lives?
Yes, of course, the answer has always been YES but not now, not in a time of national crisis, not NOW, so soon after the worst domestic mass murder in U.S. history!
Unless there was no real threat at all.
The hard and difficult questions must be asked: Is the "War on Terrorism" a ruse, a concoction to divert the citizens' attention?
Accept, if you will for just a moment, that as truly despicable as George W. Bush is, he would not be so evil as to help out his buddies in tobacco land that that would be worth suffering through another 9-11. Once you give the man that – and for once I am asking you to do just that – once you admit that not even he would allow the murder of hundreds or thousands more just so Marlboro addicts can light up outside the terminal, then a whole other door opens – and that door, my friends, leads to the Pandora's Box of 9-11, a rotten can of worms that many in the media are afraid to open for fear of where it might lead, of just how deep the stench goes.
What if there is no "terrorist threat?" What if Bush and Co. need, desperately need, that "terrorist threat" more than anything in order to conduct the systematic destruction they have launched against the U.S. constitution and the good people of this country who believe in the freedoms and liberties it guarantees?
Do you want to go there?
I do. I have filed a Freedom of Information Act demand to the FAA, asking that they give to me all documents pertaining to the decisions that were made to allow deadly butane lighters and books of matches on board passenger planes. I am not optimistic about what the results of this will be.
And let's face it – it's just one small piece of the puzzle. It is, after all, just a 99-cent Bic lighter. But, friends, I have to tell you, over the years I have found that it is PRECISELY the "little stories" and the "minor details" that contain within them the LARGER truths. Perhaps my quest to find out why the freedom to be able to start a fire on board a plane-full of citizens is more important than yours or my life will be in vain. Or maybe, just maybe, it will be the beginning of the end of this corrupt, banal administration of con artists who shamelessly use the dead of that day in September as the cover to get away with anything.
I think it's time we all stood up and started asking some questions of these individuals. The bottom line: Anyone who would brazenly steal an election and insert themselves into OUR White House with zero mandate from The People is, frankly – sadly – capable of anything...
|
| tericee |
Posted - 10/25/2002 : 5:35:21 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Fluffy
Hey Silky, I need about 1000 of those bumperstickers. I want to travel around the country and stick them on every car I see with a flag sticker on it. It sickens me the "Bandwagon Patriotism" that is so popular these days. It has since day one. I loved America before 9/11 and I love her after 9/11. Putting a sticker on seems so trite. I never had one on before, why should I suddenly put one on now. I know everyone suddenly felt a need to show their support, but it all seems to be for the wrong reasons to me. Another example of mob mentality that this country seems so fond of. Now seeing them almost sickens me. Maybe we need to turn them all upside down. Upside down flags is a sign of distress. Seems to be much more apropos these days to me.
My roommate was all keyed up because she didn't have a flag on her car after 9/11. I reminded her that we wear a uniform to work every day and that's a pretty good sign of patriotism in my opinion.
Fluffy, though you don't wear a uniform, I think you show your patriotism all the time too. You are passionate about issues that affect the United States, which also shows a great love of country! |
| pcbTIM |
Posted - 10/25/2002 : 4:53:22 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Fleabass76
WHAT'S THAT!?!?!?!!?
*runs away*
So what did your mom want? |
| enthuTIMsiast |
Posted - 10/25/2002 : 3:34:27 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Fleabass76
um..yeah..that's what I meant..they killed the president of Chili's. Duh, jeez, why do you think I was so pissed off? Chili's has really good food...WHAT'S THAT!?!?!?!!?
*runs away*
I feel so stupid...I'm sitting here in the lab laughing...hehe... |
| Fleabass76 |
Posted - 10/25/2002 : 1:46:04 PM
quote:
[i]It's spelled CHILE, not Chili. Chile is a country, Chili's is a place you go to dinner.
um..yeah..that's what I meant..they killed the president of Chili's. Duh, jeez, why do you think I was so pissed off? Chili's has really good food...WHAT'S THAT!?!?!?!!?
*runs away* |
| enthuTIMsiast |
Posted - 10/25/2002 : 12:54:33 PM
Teri, glad you decided to run another marathon. I actually ran for a while after you talked about the training program you had...two minutes on (running) two off (walking). I did that for maybe a month or so but the quit because... well I'm not sure why. I usually quit running (yes, I've started before) because for some reason I always get sick (a cold) after running for about two weeks. You know of any reason that would happen?
Anywho, good luck training! |
| tericee |
Posted - 10/25/2002 : 12:26:51 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Fleabass76
In the 70's this country ASSASINATED Chili's DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED president just because he was going to give his countries workers a higher wage then $.05/hour. The american companies in Chili didn't like that so the US sent BOMBERS and bombed the capital building, killing the president and then setting up a puppet government loyal to the US.
It's spelled CHILE, not Chili. Chile is a country, Chili's is a place you go to dinner. |
| Fleabass76 |
Posted - 10/25/2002 : 11:50:49 AM
"I could tell you all the secrets, but instead, who wants to see me hit a few dingers!" |
| Fluffy |
Posted - 10/25/2002 : 08:13:33 AM
I can almost picture Bart writing on the chalkboard. HEHE |
| pcbTIM |
Posted - 10/25/2002 : 08:07:10 AM
Whoops! I knew it looked wrong. Ok....
synchronicity... synchronicity... synchronicity... synchronicity... synchronicity... synchronicity... synchronicity... synchronicity... synchronicity... synchronicity... synchronicity... synchronicity... synchronicity... synchronicity... synchronicity... synchronicity... synchronicity... synchronicity... synchronicity... synchronicity... synchronicity... synchronicity... synchronicity... synchronicity... synchronicity... synchronicity... synchronicity... synchronicity...
There. Now I should rememeber it. |
| Fluffy |
Posted - 10/25/2002 : 07:27:52 AM
Indeed, synchroniCity!!! |
| pcbTIM |
Posted - 10/25/2002 : 06:28:43 AM
quote:
The FOIA request, which was filed on August 21, seeks general information about the use of new surveillance powers, including the number of times the government has:
Directed a library, bookstore or newspaper to produce "tangible things," e.g, the titles of books an individual has purchased or borrowed or the identity of individuals who have purchased or borrowed certain books;
Initiated surveillance of Americans under the expanded Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act;
Conducted "sneak and peek" searches, which allow law enforcement to enter people's homes and search their belongings without informing them until long after;
Authorized the use of devices to trace the telephone calls or e-mails of people who are not suspected of any crime;
I'm sorry, but this reminds me of that episode of the Simpsons where Bart and the other children believe that a "government conspiracy in conjunction with the saucer people and the reverse-vampires is in the works to eliminate the meal of dinner." Anyway, the government traces Lisa's purchase of Al Gore's book and reports to the current vice-president that a copy of his book has been sold. Gore then celebrates with the song "Celebration"....
But on to more serious matters.......Fluffy, that's pretty interesting. I just saw that website on a poster on my way back from calculus and made a mental note of it. Ahhhhh...good ole Synchronisity |
| Fluffy |
Posted - 10/25/2002 : 05:30:03 AM
Hey pcbdmb, I am 99% sure that that was the march in Santa Fe that Tim, Diane and Eura marched in. It was Eura's first demonstration. Diane said she looked awful CUTE with her picket sign screaming "I HATE BUSH!!!" Might be one of the only 7 year olds who can actually tell you why she hates Gov. Bush. It does my heart good. |
| Fleabass76 |
Posted - 10/25/2002 : 03:52:00 AM
ACLU Asks Court to Order Government to Account for its Use of Vast New Surveillance Powers
October 24, 2002
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
NEW YORK–The American Civil Liberties Union today filed a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit asking a federal court to order the Department of Justice to account for its use of the extraordinary new surveillance powers granted to it by Congress last year.
"The Justice Department conceded in early September that the information is of exceeding importance to the American public, but it nonetheless continues to stonewall," said Jameel Jaffer, an attorney with the ACLU’s Technology and Liberty Program.
The records requested concern the government’s implementation of the USA PATRIOT Act, legislation that was passed in the wake of the September 11 terrorist attacks. By amending laws such as the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA), USA PATRIOT vastly expands the government’s authority to obtain personal information about those living in the United States, including United States citizens.
In a letter to the ACLU dated Sept. 3, the Justice Department agreed to respond to the FOIA request speedily, acknowledging that the request concerned "a matter of widespread and exceptional media interest in which there exist possible questions about the government's integrity which affect public confidence." The FBI made similar promises. Yet to date, Jaffer said, neither agency has disclosed any records in response to the ACLU request nor stated which records, if any, it is going to disclose.
The ACLU and the Electronic Privacy Information Center filed the lawsuit as attorneys for their organizations and for the American Booksellers Foundation for Free Expression and the Freedom to Read Foundation, citing concerns that the new surveillance laws threaten the First Amendment-protected activities of librarians, library patrons, booksellers and their customers, and investigative journalists.
The FOIA request, which was filed on August 21, seeks general information about the use of new surveillance powers, including the number of times the government has:
Directed a library, bookstore or newspaper to produce "tangible things," e.g, the titles of books an individual has purchased or borrowed or the identity of individuals who have purchased or borrowed certain books;
Initiated surveillance of Americans under the expanded Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act;
Conducted "sneak and peek" searches, which allow law enforcement to enter people's homes and search their belongings without informing them until long after;
Authorized the use of devices to trace the telephone calls or e-mails of people who are not suspected of any crime;
Investigated American citizens or permanent legal residents on the basis of activities protected by the First Amendment (e.g., writing a letter to the editor or attending a rally).
Some of the information was previously sought by the House Judiciary Committee, and last week Rep. James Sensenbrenner, Jr., (R-WI), the Chairman of the Committee, reported that he had received some of the information in classified form. The ACLU said that the government is using its classified stamp too broadly and that the public is entitled to know, at least in general terms, what the government's policies are.
David Sobel, General Counsel to the Electronic Privacy Information Center, emphasized that the FOIA request does not seek any information that could compromise a terrorism investigation. "Much of the information that the Justice Department claims is classified consists of statistical information whose release could not possibly endanger national security or any other legitimate government interest," he said.
In related litigation, the ACLU and other groups last month filed a friend-of-the-court brief urging a secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act appeals court to reject the Justice Department's radical bid for broadly expanded powers to spy on U.S. citizens. A decision from the FISA Court of Review is expected soon.
The attorneys in the case are Jaffer and Ann Beeson of the national ACLU's Technology and Liberty Program, Sobel of the Electronic Privacy Information Center and Arthur B. Spitzer of the ACLU of the National Capital Area.
The ACLU’s legal papers filed today are online at: http://www.aclu.org/Privacy/Privacy.cfm?ID=11040&c=130
FAQ on Section 215 of the USA PATRIOT Act is online at: http://www.aclu.org/Privacy/Privacy.cfm?ID=11054&c=130
For more information on the FOIA action, including links to the original request, go to http://archive.aclu.org/issues/privacy/USAPA_feature.html
|
| pcbTIM |
Posted - 10/25/2002 : 02:40:51 AM
Good site....
http://www.notinourname.net/ |
| GuitarGuy305 |
Posted - 10/25/2002 : 12:02:21 AM
quote:
Originally posted by enthuTIMsiast
Oh, that's cool. Was it before or after 9/11. Maybe that's a silly question, but I've just never heard it.
The album is from the 70's so it was written long before 9-11-01. I imagine it was probably written about previous wars etc...
In another one of his songs he sings "We lost Davey in the Korean war, and I still don't know what for/Don't matter anymore" So perhaps this is the war that is referenced in "Flag Decal". My point is that it fits pretty much any war situation.
It is on John Prine's self titled album, where he is sitting on the hay bales. And he is popular in both folk and country circles. If you are anti-country music, you probably wouldn't like John Prine, because a lot of his songs have a country tinge to them. then again, I'm not exactly the biggest country fan out there and I love his music.
Adam
|
| enthuTIMsiast |
Posted - 10/23/2002 : 12:48:59 AM
Fine by me. |
| Fluffy |
Posted - 10/23/2002 : 12:28:26 AM
It is on the John Prine self-titled album with a picture of him sitting on a bail of hay. Someone told me it was also on John Prine Anthology-Greater Days, but I don't know this for sure. It is definitely on the self-titled album.
Billy Bragg made an interesting comment last nite, he said he thought it was wonderful all this God Bless America stuff but wouldn't it be better if we could think a little more globally? What a BEAUTIFUL idea!! Down with flags!!! They tend to seperate and segregate us. |
| victorwootenfan |
Posted - 10/21/2002 : 8:48:33 PM
what album is that joh prine one, i'd like to get it! is he a folk kind of singer too? maybe i'm mixing him up with someone else, i can't remember... |
| enthuTIMsiast |
Posted - 10/20/2002 : 9:42:42 PM
Oh, that's cool. Was it before or after 9/11. Maybe that's a silly question, but I've just never heard it. |
| GuitarGuy305 |
Posted - 10/20/2002 : 9:27:51 PM
It's actually a song by John Prine. I kept thinking of this post as I was listening to the album it's on, and thought I'd come post the lyrics on here.
Adam |
| enthuTIMsiast |
Posted - 10/19/2002 : 5:58:08 PM
Adam, is that something you wrote? I haven't heard it before if it isn't. That's about how I feel about the flag things. I can dig it. |
| GuitarGuy305 |
Posted - 10/19/2002 : 5:36:26 PM
While digesting Reader's Digest
In the back of a dirty book store,
A plastic flag, with gum on the back,
Fell out on the floor.
Well, I picked it up and I ran outside
Slapped on my windowshield,
And if I could see old Betsy Ross
I tell her how good I fel.
Chorus:
But your flag decal won't get you
Into Heaven any more.
They're already overcrowded
From your dirty little war.
Now Jesus don't like killin'
No matter what the reason's for,
And your flag decal won't get you
Into Heaven any more.
Well, I went to the bank this morning
And the cashier he said to me,
"If you join the Chrismas club
We'll give you ten of them flags for free."
Well, I didn't mess around a bit
I took him up on what he said.
And I stuck them stickers all over my car
And one on my wife's forehead.
Repeat Chorus:
Well, I got my windowshield so filled
With flags I couldn't see.
So, I ran the car upside a curb
And right into a tree.
By the time they got a doctor down
I was already dead.
And I'll never understand why the man
Standing in the Pearly Gates said...
But your flag decal won't get you
Into Heaven any more.
We're already overcrowded
From your dirty little war.
Now Jesus don't like killin'
No matter what the reason's for,
And your flag decal won't get you
Into Heaven any more.
Adam |
| Fleabass76 |
Posted - 09/22/2002 : 03:28:40 AM
Since this is somewhat related to 911 and America's effect on the world I'm posting this article in this thread for those of you who don't know about Germany's increasingly anti-war on Iraq stance.
http://apnews.excite.com/article/20020922/D7M6M5V00.html
"I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Voltaire. |
| GuitarGuy305 |
Posted - 09/13/2002 : 10:08:44 PM
I've thought to myself like its like the USA is a freaking sports team that we are all suddenly rooting for. That we are all SUDDENLY rooting for. If those flag stickers had been on those cars for years before 9-11-01, and 9-11 made people go out and buy new ones, that would be one thing, but an otherwise unpatriotic society has become so overly patriotic just because it seems the right, and yes, even the cool thing to do. So, that bandwagon patriot sticker is even more meaningful, because I almost never saw an american flag on a car before 9-11-01. I honestly dont think the american flag belongs on a car, or hanging on a balcony, or anywhere but on a pole. It's actually disrecpectful to display the flag in those other ways. Especially to drape a flag over the hood of your car, as I have seen done in my home town.
I also saw an older couple accidentally ignite their flag while lighting candles on their porch as I was standing outside a friends house talking to him, and we heard a teenager yell "that's pretty fucking patriotic right there!" and of course do nothing to try to assist. My friend and I were about to run over, but they got it out almost immediately.
Mind you, this was on 9-12-01.
God Bless America....
Adam
Everybody's talkin' at me, I can't hear a word they're sayin'...Just driving 'round in Jon Voight's car...
Email: Guitar_Boy1@yahoo.com
AIM: GuitarGuy305 |
| pcbTIM |
Posted - 09/13/2002 : 4:54:54 PM
I think if you also do that trick with a ten and a hundred, you can see the two towers (can't wait for that movie) burning, collapsing, and gone.
"Well you know boys, a nuclear reactor's a lot like a woman: you just have to read the manual and push the right button." - Homer |
| Fluffy |
Posted - 09/13/2002 : 08:01:29 AM
The $20 bill thing just goes to point up the sychronicity in the world. The way I see it, the motive, reason, and ultimate cause of the whole situation is...........that's right.....GREED!
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy          |
| {=HTG=} |
Posted - 09/13/2002 : 03:39:57 AM
Points well spoken, but did ya'll know on 9-11, the winning lottery numbers were.... 9-1-1. Whoa. And if you bend a $20 dollar bill a certain way, you see the Twin Towers burning.
"Oh come on boy think-what would Jesus do? He'd shake his head like an angry mother Smoke the boy and said I did what I could do." DMB-Raven |
| pcbTIM |
Posted - 09/12/2002 : 1:06:46 PM
quote:
Bomb Iraq? I thought it was Blame Canada! Or is it Bomb Canada?
Ooohhhh!! So close! It's Blame Canada and Bomb the Baldwins!
"Well you know boys, a nuclear reactor's a lot like a woman: you just have to read the manual and push the right button." - Homer |
| Xar666 |
Posted - 09/12/2002 : 12:52:30 PM
Here are some good discussions on the subject:
http://pub115.ezboard.com/fnutkinlandfrm13.showMessage?topicID=1067.topic
http://pub115.ezboard.com/fnutkinlandfrm13.showMessage?topicID=1079.topic
http://pub115.ezboard.com/fnutkinlandfrm13.showMessage?topicID=1084.topic
Also, that board looks much better if you register an EZ Board account and set it to HTML view. The posts will then look like this board.
-Xar666
I never really hated a one true god, but the god of the people I hated. |
| PJK |
Posted - 09/12/2002 : 07:10:53 AM
On the topic of unjust governments I just want to say, Rest In Peace, Steven Biko.
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| Fluffy |
Posted - 09/12/2002 : 05:33:04 AM
Bomb Iraq? I thought it was Blame Canada! Or is it Bomb Canada? Geez, before you know it we will be bombing everyone and enforcing our will all over the world. Woops, we are already doing that. NEVERMIND
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy |
| pcbTIM |
Posted - 09/12/2002 : 02:43:54 AM
This is just easier........
"Well you know boys, a nuclear reactor's a lot like a woman: you just have to read the manual and push the right button." - Homer |
| Fleabass76 |
Posted - 09/12/2002 : 01:18:15 AM
Here is a brilliant article in my opinion:
http://pulsetc.com/article.php?sid=141&mode=nested&order=0&PHPSESSID=071f76740115e52a57ac27e8bb785f12
Thanks for compliments everyone, I'm glad most of you are somewhat on the same page as I am and I'm not coming off as some un-american bastard. I'll check out that book Fluffy, thanks.
This is funny:
http://www.detonate.net/kevin/TTtoon.jpg
"Get up an move... or I'll put a curse on you... that all your children will be born naked." – Hendrix |
| Fleabass76 |
Posted - 09/12/2002 : 01:17:24 AM
The following is from a Reuters article (a url to the article is listed below):
Iraq`s Deputy Prime Minister Tareq Aziz sent a letter of condolence to former Attorney General Ramsey Clark on the attack anniversary, the official Iraqi News Agency said.
Clark, a vocal opponent of U.S. policy on Iraq and the U.N. sanctions imposed for Iraq`s 1990 invasion of Kuwait, visited Iraq late last month.
"On the elapse of one year after the tragic events of September 11, I express to you, and through you to the families of the victims my deep condolences," Aziz said in the letter.
"Our sympathy with you in this event rises from our feeling here in Iraq of the tragedies which have hit our people over 12 years of continued sanctions and aggression," Aziz said.
Iraq has been toiling under United Nations ( news - web sites) sanctions imposed on it after it invaded Kuwait in 1990. A U.S.-led coalition forced Iraq`s troops from Kuwait in the 1991 Gulf War ( news - web sites).
"The victims of Sept 11 events in America reached up to 3,000 people ... whereas Iraq`s victims because of the sanctions and the aggression mounted to more than 1.5 million people ... and the number is on the rise," he added.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20020911/wl_nm/iraq_attack_anniversary_dc_2
"Get up an move... or I'll put a curse on you... that all your children will be born naked." – Hendrix |
| pcbTIM |
Posted - 09/11/2002 : 7:21:26 PM
quote:
Remembering the past is good, dwelling on it is non-productive.
Reminds me of a quote I saw in Harry Potter.....
"It does not do to dwell on the past and forget to live."
"Always follow your heart, but use your brain." - My dad |
| PJK |
Posted - 09/11/2002 : 7:09:22 PM
Fleabass76...this was a great post to read. I also agree with much of what you had to say. One of the most important things in life is to be a free thinker and that takes a lot of effort. You have to get information from multiple sources and trust no one source completely.
I hate it when I listen to the Presidents' speeches and afterwards commentators come on the TV and tell the public what they just heard as if we are too stupid to form our own opinions. Almost every time I wonder if they were listening to the same speech I was.I actually hate listening to the President talk (any President we have ever had) but as boring as they can be I have to listen because in between all the eloquent words and euphemisms are traces of truth.
As for 911, I was shocked that the WTC towers fell, not that they were attacked. My brother-in-law was there and survived, a boy in the school I work at had a father in the first tower that did not. Remembering the past is good, dwelling on it is non-productive.
Pam
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| Xar666 |
Posted - 09/11/2002 : 6:18:39 PM
I have so many mixed opinions about this topic I don't know where to start.
I will add this:
My best friend is Iranian. However, he was born here. My coworkers actually had the audacity to give me shit about being friends with him. I almost came to blows with one guy. You gotta love white people.
-Xar666
I never really hated a one true god, but the god of the people I hated. |
| victorwootenfan |
Posted - 09/11/2002 : 11:21:29 AM
you all are the awesome!! it's like this entire post is exactly what was on my mind. i read in a newspaper article that there was some poll taken in the middle east with some random people and they said the reason that they disliked America was simply it's foriegn policy. we help those that will economically help ourselves. (middle east=oil) so we'll say that israeli's are saints, but the palestines are the worst people in thw world. we'll pick sides on everything, and it's not right! it feels like Bush just has to use war with every problem facing the US today. Bad economy, let's go to war with Iraq...former pasts in Enron and big business scams, let's start a war to take people's mind of the investigation... and the list goes on. why can't we be united under a world flag, all this America stuff to me comes down to i'm better than you because i live here, and you live there. why can't we learn to get along as a world, not as divided people?
"Set the gear shift to the high gear of your soul, you gotta run like an antelope, out of control" -Dude of Life |
| Silky The Pimp |
Posted - 09/11/2002 : 08:42:56 AM
quote:
It sickens me the "Bandwagon Patriotism" that is so popular these days. It has since day one. I loved America before 9/11 and I love her after 9/11. Putting a sticker on seems so trite. I never had one on before, why should I suddenly put one on now.
I don't need to say anything... you already said it for me, verbatim.
 |
| Fluffy |
Posted - 09/11/2002 : 04:17:41 AM
Hey Fleabass, I totally concur with your comments as I am sure TR would. Sounds like you have read Noam Chomsky's Rogue State. If you haven't, TR and I highly recommend you do. I don't know if you were around when the whole "God clarifies..." post exploded on the board, if not, I would highly recommend you give it a read. It is a long, much longer than yours, but I think you find a kindred spirit in me after you finish reading it. I love this country and the "IDEA" of this country, but somewhere along the lines things went terribly, terribly wrong. Hopefully, one day, more people will start to open their eyes and see the lies right in front of them and we can begin to question our leaders and their policies and turn America into a place I can be proud to travel around the world and tell people I am an American. It is the greatest country in the world but it need alot of work. We need younger people to get involved and take an interest and take charge in future years and bring America back around to state we can be proud of, instead of being looked at by the rest of the world as a ROGUE STATE. PEACE, War is not the answer. How is what we did to Afghanistan any different than what Osama Bin Laden did to us. When we do it is called "a war", when they do it, it is called "Terrorism". A rose by any other name is still a rose.
God Clarifies the No Killing Rule post:
http://www.timreynolds.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=847
Hey Silky, I need about 1000 of those bumperstickers. I want to travel around the country and stick them on every car I see with a flag sticker on it. It sickens me the "Bandwagon Patriotism" that is so popular these days. It has since day one. I loved America before 9/11 and I love her after 9/11. Putting a sticker on seems so trite. I never had one on before, why should I suddenly put one on now. I know everyone suddenly felt a need to show their support, but it all seems to be for the wrong reasons to me. Another example of mob mentality that this country seems so fond of. Now seeing them almost sickens me. Maybe we need to turn them all upside down. Upside down flags is a sign of distress. Seems to be much more apropos these days to me.
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy |
| Saint Jude |
Posted - 09/11/2002 : 12:37:46 AM
You want to konw the real reason they hate us... just ask our pupe.... presedent...
We value a free press. We value freedom. And the more we value freedom, the more they hate us. That's why. That's why the enemy still exists.
-- Which of course does nothing to explain his administration's freedom-destroying penchant for secrecy, Louisville, Kentucky, Sep. 5, 2002
I'm sure your kids, they're wondering, why would you hate America? We didn't do anything to anybody. Well, they hate America because we love freedom.
-- I have never heard a terrorist group claim to be against the love of freedom, and claiming the USA has never done anything to anybody is about as false as it gets, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, Sep. 2, 2002
I want the students to understand here why someone would want to hurt America in the first place. And it's because your country loves freedom. That's why. We love freedom.
-- That doesn't really make sense, Dubya, Little Rock, Arkansas, Aug. 29, 2002
see its cuz we... love... freedom... thats why they..... hate us.
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yea.
www.dubyaspeak.com
Remember, turn off your tv. Read. |
| Silky The Pimp |
Posted - 09/11/2002 : 12:04:05 AM
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| pcbTIM |
Posted - 09/10/2002 : 11:54:16 PM
Hear hear! They posted a thing like this on nancies and then it mysteriously dissapeared. I, for one, am not going to watch any television tomorrow because I will not be able to take the patriotic propaganda they'll be spreading. Nothing like living in the land of government-controlled freedom. It's still amazes me how ignorant some people can be about other nations. They think that since they're third world countries (and therefore desperately need our help), that we can do whatever we want in order to help ourselves. It just makes me sick.
"Always follow your heart, but use your brain." - My dad |
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