| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Fleabass76 |
Posted - 06/26/2002 : 9:15:34 PM
The 9th district appeals court has ruled that reciting the Pledge of Allegiance in public schools is unconstitutional because of the word God. Thank God! As an Athiest/Humanist, it always bothered me.
It probably won't pass though since Dubya called the ruling "Ridiculous!" And I'm sure to him it is, since Christianity is the only true way...
"Women and rhythm section first."
Mr. Jaco Pastorius
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| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| LizT |
Posted - 06/28/2002 : 3:29:28 PM
quote:
Here's what I think:
1. The United States of America has set of rules or laws that were considered a priori at the time of their creation and still are; in other words, the Declaration of Independence.
2. The American government and public adhere to the Declaration of Independence.
3. One of these laws in the Declaration of Independence is that all Americans have freedom of religion.
4. Freedom of religion also means freedom from religion.
5. The Pledge of Allegiance contains the words "one nation, under God..."
6. A Pledge of Allegiance is defined as:
a. pledge- "A solemn binding promise to do, give, or refrain from doing something"
b. allegiance- "Loyalty or the obligation of loyalty, as to a nation, sovereign, or cause."
c. therefore, a Pledge of Allegiance is a solemn, binding promise to be loyal to "the Nation of America" or the United States of America.
7. According to the Pledge of Allegiance, America is a nation under God. In other words America = God or "if America, then God"
8. To say the Pledge of Allegiance is to swear loyalty to America.
9. Swearing loyalty to America ("a nation under God") by way of the Pledge of Allegiance is to swear loyalty to God.
Therefore,
8. It is contradictory for a nation (America), founded on the principle that its citizens have freedom of religion, to have its citizens when pledging national loyalty to also pledge religious loyalty. America can not be both a nation under God and a nation founded and conducted on a principle such as freedom of religion.
You sound like my son.......
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| LizT |
Posted - 06/28/2002 : 3:25:38 PM
quote:
I sure hope they make everyone pull those bloody "God Bless America" bumperstickers and flags out of their windows, cars and everywhere. What a beautiful world we could live it.
You got that right!
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| Saint Jude |
Posted - 06/28/2002 : 09:44:39 AM
quote:
Nothing's going to be changed. The pledge ruling is going to be overturned and we're all going to forget about this in a month or two.
Im way ahead of you..................... ........................ ...
................................................................. ...
.......... what was that nosie?
- Without you, without you everything falls apart
Without you, it's not as much fun to pick up the pieces.
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| Fleabass76 |
Posted - 06/28/2002 : 02:09:00 AM
Nothing's going to be changed. The pledge ruling is going to be overturned and we're all going to forget about this in a month or two.
"Women and rhythm section first."
Mr. Jaco Pastorius
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| Ginohassideburns |
Posted - 06/28/2002 : 01:09:29 AM
I wonder if the dollar bill will be changed now because it has the phrase "In God We Trust" on it.
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| Fleabass76 |
Posted - 06/27/2002 : 6:05:16 PM
quote:
I beg to differ. Here is the definition of spirituality and then since that definition offers spiritual as part of the definition I thought I should also quote that definition.
Yeah, I know, that's why I said some athiests don't neccesarily consider themselves spiritual. And the many Gods thing was partly a joke...but whatever.
"Women and rhythm section first."
Mr. Jaco Pastorius
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| j |
Posted - 06/27/2002 : 4:57:00 PM
Here's what I think:
1. The United States of America has set of rules or laws that were considered a priori at the time of their creation and still are; in other words, the Declaration of Independence.
2. The American government and public adhere to the Declaration of Independence.
3. One of these laws in the Declaration of Independence is that all Americans have freedom of religion.
4. Freedom of religion also means freedom from religion.
5. The Pledge of Allegiance contains the words "one nation, under God..."
6. A Pledge of Allegiance is defined as:
a. pledge- "A solemn binding promise to do, give, or refrain from doing something"
b. allegiance- "Loyalty or the obligation of loyalty, as to a nation, sovereign, or cause."
c. therefore, a Pledge of Allegiance is a solemn, binding promise to be loyal to "the Nation of America" or the United States of America.
7. According to the Pledge of Allegiance, America is a nation under God. In other words America = God or "if America, then God"
8. To say the Pledge of Allegiance is to swear loyalty to America.
9. Swearing loyalty to America ("a nation under God") by way of the Pledge of Allegiance is to swear loyalty to God.
Therefore,
8. It is contradictory for a nation (America), founded on the principle that its citizens have freedom of religion, to have its citizens when pledging national loyalty to also pledge religious loyalty. America can not be both a nation under God and a nation founded and conducted on a principle such as freedom of religion.
"Have a moderately neato day. May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house."
-G.C. |
| Fluffy |
Posted - 06/27/2002 : 4:07:21 PM
I overheard this on Jay Leno's Tonight Show.
"Saddam claimed that after the massive air bombing by the UN force, he had talked to God in his bunker 60 feet underground. I don't believe it: when you are 60 feet underground, it is not God!"
Fluffy adds: There is no way it could have been God, he doesn't exist. Just ask the 9th district appeals court. Saddam must be a liar, or at least go to jail for saying the word God in public.
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy          |
| Fluffy |
Posted - 06/27/2002 : 4:01:07 PM
''What's next?'' asked Rep. Roy Blunt, R-Mo. ''Will our courts, in their zeal to abolish all religious faith from public arenas, outlaw 'God Bless America' too?''
Legal analysts said the decision, the first of its kind in the country, would almost certainly be appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court -- which begins its sessions with the words "God save the United States and the honorable court."
''The Supreme Court would be forced to change its own ceremonial opening ... 'God save the United States and this honorable court,''' Sekulow said.
For their part, House members gathered on the front steps of the Capitol to recite the pledge en masse - the same place they defiantly sang ''God Bless America'' the night of Sept. 11 attacks.
I sure hope they make everyone pull those bloody "God Bless America" bumperstickers and flags out of their windows, cars and everywhere. What a beautiful world we could live it.
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy |
| Ginohassideburns |
Posted - 06/27/2002 : 3:36:22 PM
if anyone caught Jay Leno last night he had some funny stuff to say about this topic
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| Fluffy |
Posted - 06/27/2002 : 3:16:10 PM
Fleabass said:quote:
because some Atheists don't have any spirituality. I just believe in the power of the human mind...that doesn't really fit under spirituality...
I beg to differ. Here is the definition of spirituality and then since that definition offers spiritual as part of the definition I thought I should also quote that definition.
from the Merriam-Webster dictionary:
Main Entry: spir·i·tu·al·i·ty
Pronunciation: "spir-i-ch&-'wa-l&-tE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -ties
Date: 15th century
4 : the quality or state of being spiritual
Main Entry: [1]spir·i·tu·al
Pronunciation: 'spir-i-ch&-w&l, -i-ch&l, -ich-w&l
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French & Late Latin; Middle French spirituel, from Late Latin spiritualis, from Latin, of breathing, of wind, from spiritus
Date: 14th century
1 : of, relating to, consisting of, or affecting the spirit : INCORPOREAL (man's spiritual needs)
Someone with ESP might be called a spiritualist. ESP is thought of as the "power of the mind" on a different level than most. So the power of the mind could and commonly does fall under the category of spirituality. Maybe not the same spirituality as a priest, but they both indeed have a spirituality. They call someone who believes in ghosts "spiritualists" yet that same person may not believe in God or any higher power. Not believing in God does not exclude spirituality. Spirituality can take many forms. In your case your spirituality would be defined as a sense of self through the use of your mind. Your body has a spirit. You may not have a relegious spirituality but you have some form of it. Of course this is my opinion.
Fleabass said:quote:
what about people who believe in multiple gods? How are they going to choose which one they want to be for the pledge and stuff?
(suggestion)I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, One nation under the gods,................
Yours might be:
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, One nation on my mind,........
OR
One nation in my thoughts.........
You know something like that.
By the way, I don't want you to feel like I am picking on you. I am only trying to answer the questions you ask with answers you might not have thought of. I may not change your opinion and I almost certainly won't change your beliefs, I just offer them up as food for thought on the matter.
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy
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| Jay |
Posted - 06/27/2002 : 3:05:33 PM
I always felt like saying the pledge was like praying, too. It's almost brainwashing...most kids my age and younger don't even know anything aboot our history, but they still say the pledge...it is brainwashing. It's saying, " Here, we fucked your ancestors up, pissed off the world, killed the people who were here before us, but we won't tell you that so you will beleive that we are the best and eventually become president or something, but that is only if you are a rich, spoiled brat that thinks he knows aboot politics. If you aren't, keep sayign the pledge, and then maybe if we are lucky you will have enough patriotism to join the army and die in some bullshit war, then that way, only the rich survive and can all be come presidents. Then we'll REALLY piss off the world!" Accually, it's not quite that bad...I'm just really tired and.....NOT....stoned...
Jay
" It's a scavenger hunt in the best of times, a one armed man with a box of dimes. Throw the stick and let the bulldog roll." KJP |
| Fleabass76 |
Posted - 06/27/2002 : 2:22:35 PM
I'm just saying just because something is part of our tradition, it doesn't mean we should keep doing it. For Atheists, saying that phrase doesn't really make much sense if the phrase is talking about under spirituality because some Atheists don't have any spirituality. I just believe in the power of the human mind...that doesn't really fit under spirituality...
Of course, I'm pretty leftist as far as the WHOLE pledge goes anyway. I don't think it's right to make young children pledge their allegiance to a country that they don't even truly know about yet. I realize it's not a legal contract or anything, but still. I'm overanalyzing this, but I still think the idea of a "Pledge of Allegiance" is kind of silly.
Also, what about people who believe in multiple gods? How are they going to choose which one they want to be for the pledge and stuff? And then the other Gods that didn't get picked are going to get all pissy, and in the end, nobody really wins. There are countries that don't have references to religion in their Govts, like Germany and Japan. They're doing fine.
To me when I was a kid, saying the pledge was akward, almost like praying. That God part kind of did mess with me. I'm not saying I'm forever scarred, but yeah, I'll stop now.
"Women and rhythm section first."
Mr. Jaco Pastorius
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| therippa |
Posted - 06/27/2002 : 1:19:06 PM
quote:
The Rippa said:
quote:
the pledge is part of our history, tradition, and what culture this country has.
Yeah, so is slautering an entire civilization for material gain. Just a thought...I'm not flaming...
"Women and rhythm section first."
Mr. Jaco Pastorius
Yes, but I'm trying to focus on our positive history 
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Aspiring to Be Fluffy-Esque
"I heard Tim stopped playing with Dave when he got pregnant" |
| Fleabass76 |
Posted - 06/27/2002 : 1:08:22 PM
The Rippa said:
quote:
the pledge is part of our history, tradition, and what culture this country has.
Yeah, so is slautering an entire civilization for material gain. Just a thought...I'm not flaming...
"Women and rhythm section first."
Mr. Jaco Pastorius
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| Saint Jude |
Posted - 06/27/2002 : 12:33:45 PM
quote:
Dubya himself once said " I don't think athiests should be considered citizens...."
To quote Family Guy aboot this....
"You know, it doesnt really matter where we are all from, we can all get along. As long as we worship the same god."
- Without you, without you everything falls apart
Without you, it's not as much fun to pick up the pieces.
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| therippa |
Posted - 06/27/2002 : 12:04:58 PM
They were talking about this on the radio for almost an hour this morning and raised plenty of good points. The pledge is about our country, not god. And god is a word like beer - beer could be Miller, Bud, etc. God conveys spirituality, who everyone has, even if you are an atheist. And this is also ridiculous because the pledge is part of our history, tradition, and what culture this country has. One of the radio guys said "This is outrageous. This guy has no idea how well he has it living in America. I'm sure if you told this story to an immigrant about to become a full-fledged American citizen he would cry". And the guy says that the phrase "injured" his daughter...does his daughter get injured every time she looks at a church? I'm not a religious person by any means. When I say the pledge I usually leave that line out. In public schools nowadays it's NOT MANDATORY to even recite the pledge, and if you do, you can drop whatever phrase or make substitutions as you see fit. That's why I think it's unecessary and a gigantic waste of tax-paid time to deem something like this unconstitutional Instead of worrying about this, why don't they bitch about schools not having enough pencils and books for the students.
This nation has problems inifitely larger than this to deal with and worry about.
(this image in no way is pointing a finger at anyone on this board...I just ran across it on the Fark discussion thread on this topic and thought it was pretty spiffy)
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Aspiring to Be Fluffy-Esque
"I heard Tim stopped playing with Dave when he got pregnant" |
| Jay |
Posted - 06/27/2002 : 02:59:31 AM
This website doesn't accually want you too overthrow the government. It has this title so that the government will see it, and read it. It's a very good site.
Again, they don't mean for you to overthrow the government.
http://www.overthrowthegovernment.org/
Jay
" It's a scavenger hunt in the best of times, a one armed man with a box of dimes. Throw the stick and let the bulldog roll." KJP |
| Fluffy |
Posted - 06/27/2002 : 02:42:36 AM
See what laying off the weed does for you. It helps you to lay out your feelings and beliefs for all to see. It also helps you type a discertation worthy of my stamp of approval. It may be long and it may ramble but damnit, sometimes you have to. Keep paying attention, questioning your leaders, and don't ever become another lamb to the slaughter.
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy |
| Jay |
Posted - 06/27/2002 : 02:34:27 AM
I think I'm gonna ramble on and on and on here...get off topic..ya know...be warned. You know, i once had a deep conversation with a teacher aboot this. HE agrees with me that our country's gov. Blows.( Not his accual words! hehehe!) He agrees also that "Under God" should be removed. Just because most of our country is Christian doesn't mean that they have to take the majority and put everyone else down. That is one division. Also, look at when the Gov. talks aboot folks my age. They take what they think is the average...um...RICH, WELL OFF, PARENT'S BUY YOU EVERYTHING SPOILD BRAT! I've never once heard a politicion talk aboot the poor, the sick, the hungry, unless they are talking aboot food drives or something. Like when Ohio outlawed tobacco to anyone under 18. They said something like, " All young teenagers that smoke eventually get caught, and ALL of them become hard drug users." Now lets see here...i smoke, use tobacco every day, and I'm 14. Yes, i smoke pot...........but what they are saying is that everyone gets caught, doesn't quit, then starts shooting heroin. I think that that is horrible. I say "Leave us Alone!'
Topic Two...
You cats know what i think aboot society. I see the same in the Government...STUBBERN. The gov. is unwilling to see other views of the PEOPLE IT REPRESENTS. At least, that's what I see. The pledge deal is a prime example of this. All of the senators and politicians in the second article burned the idea.
Dubya himself once said " I don't think athiests should be considered citizens...." This just shows the view of our fucking leader. He's gonna do something very stupid soon, something that may turn the world against us. Capt. P and I live within thirty miles of the biggest nuclear plant in Ohio. It would be a PRIME target, as it power Ashtabula and part of Cleveland. Both of these cities are large steel producers, and knowing oot the power would be a perfect way of cuttign that oot. After 9/11, army helicopters would fly between the Perry Nuke. Plant and Cleveland, in the middle, crossing over my home. Now, if you've never seen a military helicopter flying at 700 feet at 150 miles an hour, it is scary as hell. Twelve times a day, all hours, one would fly over my house followed by another two hours later...then a few hours would pass, and more would come. Every night, around 3:00, and to this day even, another flies over my house. Mike and I are very vulerable to terrorists etc etc etc. I find this scary as hell, especailly with a man that doesn't think a large group of people should be considered citizens, just because they don't have the same views as him...
Overall, our country is in bad shape. If it doesn't change soon, i think we'll have a HUGE problem on our hands, as in a big war.
Well, i've rambled, probably made someone mad in the process, and probably made no sense at all...
I'm not stoned as i write this, just so yall know that!
Jay
" It's a scavenger hunt in the best of times, a one armed man with a box of dimes. Throw the stick and let the bulldog roll." KJP |
| Fleabass76 |
Posted - 06/27/2002 : 01:59:47 AM
I think the second one is more accurate...
"Women and rhythm section first."
Mr. Jaco Pastorius
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| {=HTG=} |
Posted - 06/27/2002 : 01:32:46 AM
I like the 2nd one.
"Boredom`s not a burden Anyone should bear" TOOL |
| Fluffy |
Posted - 06/26/2002 : 9:50:44 PM
I Pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
Is this better?
I Pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Illuminatti for which it stands, one Nation answerable to noone, SO divided, with liberty and justice where they see fit.
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy |
| Fluffy |
Posted - 06/26/2002 : 9:46:16 PM
Congressional delegation reacts to Pledge of Allegiance decision
The Associated Press
Missouri's congressional delegation reacts to appeals court decision on Pledge of Allegiance:
---
"Our founding fathers must be spinning in their graves. What is next? Will the courts now strip 'So help me God' from the pledge taken by new presidents? This is the worst kind of political correctness run amok. This is nuts." - Sen. Kit Bond, R-Mo.
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"The Pledge of Allegiance is a simple eloquent statement of American values. For more than four decades, school children have recited it in classrooms and scout meetings across the country. Today, I see no reason to change the time-tested, venerable pledge that is such a central part of our country's life and our nation's heritage." - House Democratic leader Dick Gephardt of Missouri.
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"The Pledge of Allegiance is as American as the Fourth of July. And as families all over America gather next week to celebrate freedom, I believe that now, more than ever, they will want to express their patriotism. I am certain that this ruling will be overturned." - Sen. Jean Carnahan, D-Mo.
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"The ruling by this left-leaning liberal court is outrageous and unconscionable. The Pledge of Allegiance is a patriotic salute that brings people of all faiths together to share in and celebrate the spirit of America. In the Heartland and in Congress, we strongly believe that parents, teachers and local schools should encourage children to recite the Pledge to start the day." - Rep. Jo Ann Emerson, R-Mo.
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"Today's decision is wrong and demonstrates a misunderstanding of our constitution. It confuses freedom of religion with freedom from religion and reflects an attempt by some to create a purely secular state. I encourage the recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance and believe that American's dedication to the tradition will prevail." - Rep. Todd Akin, R-Mo.
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"American schoolchildren reciting the Pledge are celebrating the diversity and tolerance that make our nation one nation. Abolishing that daily reminder of our unity as a people is a reach on the part of the courts, and it should be overturned." - Rep. Roy Blunt, R-Mo.
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy |
| Fluffy |
Posted - 06/26/2002 : 9:45:26 PM
Interesting stuff. I just thought people should read the whole story before comments start flying. Relegious discussions can sometimes get quite heated. May I remind everyone to respect each others beliefs and opinions, but by all means please post your thoughts on this subject. Please no personal attacks. EVERYONE is entitled to his/her own opinion.
Pledge of Allegiance Unconstitutional, Court Says
June 26, 2002 07:43 PM ET
By Andrew Quinn
SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Taking a hammer to one of the pillars of U.S. civic society, a federal appeals court ruled on Wednesday it was unconstitutional to ask schoolchildren to recite the Pledge of Allegiance vowing fealty to one nation "under God."
In a 2-1 decision that drew condemnation from across the political spectrum, the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals overturned a 1954 Act of the U.S Congress that added "under God" to the pledge, saying the words violated the basic Constitutional tenet of separation of church and state.
President Bush called the ruling "ridiculous," while the U.S. Senate voted 99-0 for a resolution expressing support for the pledge. If the ruling is allowed to stand, the pledge would be barred from public schools in the nine western states covered by the 9th Circuit.
The court, ruling on a challenge lodged by a California atheist, said the pledge "impermissibly takes a position with respect to the purely religious question of the existence and identity of God."
"A profession that we are a nation 'under God' is identical ... to a profession that we are a nation 'under Jesus,' a nation 'under Vishnu,' a nation 'under Zeus,' or a nation 'under no god,"' the court said in its majority opinion by Judge Alfred Goodwin, who was appointed to the appellate court by President Richard Nixon in 1971.
Legal analysts said the decision, the first of its kind in the country, would almost certainly be appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court -- which begins its sessions with the words "God save the United States and the honorable court."
"I don't see how they could avoid it," said Michael Shapiro, a professor of law at the University of Southern California.
"As a purely technical matter, there is nothing drastically wrong with the opinion," Shapiro said. "This can't be dismissed as a frolic of some flaming left-wing know-nothings."
UNDER GOD?
The case turned on interpretations of the "Establishment Clause" of the First Amendment to the Constitution, which requires that Congress "make no law respecting an establishment of religion."
The Establishment Clause has already led to a series of debates over the separation of church and state in the United States, with cases ranging from publicly-funded Christmas displays to school prayer.
But in addressing the Pledge of Allegiance, the current case takes on one of the country's strongest patriotic traditions.
The pledge, written in 1892, was first codified by Congress in 1942 as a patriotic statement that has been recited by generations of U.S. schoolchildren as the first act of the school day.
In 1954, Congress amended the official version of the pledge to add the words "under God" -- a move then-President Dwight Eisenhower said would demonstrate "the dedication of our Nation and our people to the Almighty."
That irked Sacramento-area atheist Michael Newdow, who said that his daughter, an elementary school student in the Elk Grove Unified School District, was being indoctrinated in beliefs by the U.S. government.
"Government should not thrust a religious idea down my throat," Newdow said on Wednesday.
While Newdow's daughter -- like other U.S. students -- was not required to recite the pledge, he said she was nevertheless hurt by being forced to "watch and listen as her state-employed teacher in her state-run school leads her classmates in a ritual proclaiming that there is a God."
A MESSAGE TO UNBELIEVERS
The 9th Circuit agreed, saying that use of the Pledge of Allegiance in public school classrooms amounted to a government stamp of approval on monotheism -- "sending a message to unbelievers" that they are not equal in the eyes of the state.
The decision was hailed by atheist groups, who said the "under God" pledge had been added during the height of the Cold War to differentiate the United States from the officially "godless" Soviet Union.
"Freedom of speech should not include the ability to take the government and turn it into a tool to address a captive audience, especially school children," said Joe Zamecki, a spokesman for the American Atheist Center in Crawford, New Jersey.
But politicians and religious groups expressed outrage, slamming the traditionally liberal San Francisco appeals court for ignoring what one legal analyst called a "baseline" of religious belief in the country.
While conservative critics were particularly harsh, two of the three judges on the panel were in fact appointed by Republican presidents -- Goodwin, the opinion's chief author, by Nixon in 1971 and dissenting Judge Ferdinand Fernandez by President George Bush in 1989. The third, Judge Stephen Reinhardt, was appointed by Democratic President Jimmy Carter in 1979 and is known as one of the court's most liberal members.
Fernandez, in a partial dissent, said the majority opinion could be upheld on a legal basis but risked trampling the "good sense and principles" that underpin the legal system.
In Washington, lawmakers lined up to blast the ruling, which Senate Republican leader Trent Lott described as "unbelievable."
"Either it has got to be overturned en banc by the 9th Circuit or by a higher court or we will do it in the Congress. I think it is essential that this matter be addressed and be addressed quickly," Lott said.
Senate Democratic Majority Leader Tom Daschle, who with Lott offered the pro-pledge resolution, urged Senate members to show up at the start of business on Thursday to recite the embattled oath.
"I think we need to send a clear message that the Congress disagrees," Daschle said. "The Congress is going to intervene, the Congress is going to do all that it can to live up to the expectations of the American people."
Bush, who is in Calgary for a G8 summit, felt the ruling was "wrong" and the Department of Justice is now evaluating how to seek redress, presidential spokesman Ari Fleischer said.
"The president's reaction was: 'This is ridiculous'. Those were his words."
By JESSE J. HOLLAND
.c The Associated Press
WASHINGTON (June 27) - Lawmakers rushed to the steps of the Capitol to defiantly recite the Pledge of Allegiance following a federal appeals court's decision declaring it unconstitutional.
Others moved just as quickly to try to overturn a decision Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle, D-S.D., called ''just nuts.''
''What's next?'' asked Rep. Roy Blunt, R-Mo. ''Will our courts, in their zeal to abolish all religious faith from public arenas, outlaw 'God Bless America' too?''
The House and Senate recite the pledge every morning before starting work - the House since 1988 and the Senate since 1999.
A 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals panel ruled Wednesday that the use of the words ''under God'' violates the Constitution's clause barring establishment of religion. The ruling, if allowed to stand, would bar schoolchildren from reciting the pledge in the nine Western states covered by the court.
Less than four hours later, senators passed a resolution denouncing the court's decision, which came in a lawsuit filed by a California father who objected to his daughter being compelled to listen to her second-grade classmates recite the pledge.
''I think we need to send a clear message that the Congress disagrees, the Congress is going to intervene, the Congress is going to do all that it can do to live up to the expectations of the American people,'' Daschle said.
Other lawmakers, including Sen. Joseph Lieberman, D-Conn., a potential 2004 presidential candidate, called for a constitutional amendment to make sure the words stay in the pledge.
''There may have been a more senseless, ridiculous decision issued by a court at some time, but I don't remember it,'' Lieberman said.
For their part, House members gathered on the front steps of the Capitol to recite the pledge en masse - the same place they defiantly sang ''God Bless America'' the night of Sept. 11 attacks.
If Wednesday's ruling is not overturned by the full 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, the Supreme Court probably will review the case next year, constitutional scholars said.
The court has flip-flopped on the pledge, first ruling in 1940 that public school students could be forced to salute the American flag and say the pledge. Three years later the court said an individual who doesn't want to salute the flag or say the pledge may refuse.
Experts were split on what the court would do.
Jay Sekulow, chief counsel of the American Center for Law and Justice, said he believed the appeals court ruling would be overturned.
''The Supreme Court would be forced to change its own ceremonial opening ... 'God save the United States and this honorable court,''' Sekulow said.
But University of Southern California Law School professor Erwin Chemerinsky said he believed the appeals court was right. ''I believe the government can't act to advance religion,'' he said. ''That's what Congress did by putting 'under God' in the pledge.''
President Bush's spokesman, Ari Fleischer, branded the appeals court decision ''ridiculous'' and said the Justice Department would fight it. ''The view of the White House is that this was a wrong decision,'' Fleischer said.
Attorney General John Ashcroft said the Justice Department believed in the right of Americans to say the pledge. ''The decision is directly contrary to two centuries of American tradition,'' Ashcroft said.
The decision was written by Judge Alfred T. Goodwin, whom Sen. Robert Byrd, D-W.Va., called an ''atheist lawyer.''
''I hope his name never comes before this body for any promotion, because he will be remembered,'' Byrd said.
House Speaker Dennis Hastert, R-Ill., called for more conservative judges. The 9th Circuit Court is known as the most liberal appeals court in the nation.
Democrats and Republicans have been fighting all year over the pace of the Senate's confirmation of Bush's conservative judicial nominations. Three of Bush's 9th Circuit nominees, Carolyn Kuhl, Richard Clifton and Jay Bybee, have yet to be voted on by the Democratic-controlled Senate.
''This highlights what the fight over federal judges is all about,'' Senate Republican leader Trent Lott, R-Miss. ''We feel that putting men and women on the appellate courts who would make this kind of decision is bad for America.''
Democrats pointed out that it was a Republican, President Nixon, who appointed Goodwin to the appeals court in 1971.
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy
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