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Fluffy
Administrator
USA
10739 Posts |
 Posted - 09/01/2005 : 2:04:17 PM
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(because I can almost hear the people calling me a NUT, I thought I should clarify. Is "W" partially responsible for the devastion? NOT the actual hurricane itself, DUH!!! Another example of where listening to advisors in advance could have maybe lessened the devastation but "W" chose to spend that money on his little war in Iraq rather than protect the people of New Orleans. You decide whether that was a responsible decision or not.)
So before you start calling me a conspiracy theorist, please read the following story and decide for yourself. If it has always been hard for you to find the correlation between govt policy and how it affects us in the streets of the US see if this puts it into perspective.
By Sidney Blumenthal
Aug. 31, 2005
Biblical in its uncontrolled rage and scope, Hurricane Katrina has left millions of Americans to scavenge for food and shelter and hundreds to thousands reportedly dead. With its main levee broken, the evacuated city of New Orleans has become part of the Gulf of Mexico. But the damage wrought by the hurricane may not entirely be the result of an act of nature.
A year ago the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers proposed to study how New Orleans could be protected from a catastrophic hurricane, but the Bush administration ordered that the research not be undertaken. After a flood killed six people in 1995, Congress created the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project, in which the Corps of Engineers strengthened and renovated levees and pumping stations. In early 2001, the Federal Emergency Management Agency issued a report stating that a hurricane striking New Orleans was one of the three most likely disasters in the U.S., including a terrorist attack on New York City. But by 2003 the federal funding for the flood control project essentially dried up as it was drained into the Iraq war. In 2004, the Bush administration cut funding requested by the New Orleans district of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers for holding back the waters of Lake Pontchartrain by more than 80 percent.
Additional cuts at the beginning of this year (for a total reduction in funding of 44.2 percent since 2001) forced the New Orleans district of the Corps to impose a hiring freeze. The Senate had debated adding funds for fixing New Orleans' levees, but it was too late.
The New Orleans Times-Picayune, which before the hurricane published a series on the federal funding problem, and whose presses are now underwater, reported online: "No one can say they didn't see it coming ... Now in the wake of one of the worst storms ever, serious questions are being asked about the lack of preparation."
The Bush administration's policy of turning over wetlands to developers almost certainly also contributed to the heightened level of the storm surge. In 1990, a federal task force began restoring lost wetlands surrounding New Orleans. Every two miles of wetland between the Crescent City and the Gulf reduces a surge by half a foot. Bush had promised "no net loss" of wetlands, a policy launched by his father's administration and bolstered by President Clinton. But he reversed his approach in 2003, unleashing the developers. The Army Corps of Engineers and the Environmental Protection Agency then announced they could no longer protect wetlands unless they were somehow related to interstate commerce.
In response to this potential crisis, four leading environmental groups conducted a joint expert study, concluding in 2004 that without wetlands protection New Orleans could be devastated by an ordinary, much less a Category 4 or 5, hurricane. "There's no way to describe how mindless a policy that is when it comes to wetlands protection," said one of the report's authors. The chairman of the White House's Council on Environmental Quality dismissed the study as "highly questionable," and boasted, "Everybody loves what we're doing."
"My administration's climate change policy will be science based," President Bush declared in June 2001. But in 2002, when the Environmental Protection Agency submitted a study on global warming to the United Nations reflecting its expert research, Bush derided it as "a report put out by a bureaucracy," and excised the climate change assessment from the agency's annual report. The next year, when the EPA issued its first comprehensive "Report on the Environment,"
stating, "Climate change has global consequences for human health and the environment," the White House simply demanded removal of the line and all similar conclusions. At the G-8 meeting in Scotland this year, Bush successfully stymied any common action on global warming. Scientists, meanwhile, have continued to accumulate impressive data on the rising temperature of the oceans, which has produced more severe hurricanes.
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If you are one of those people who has never given much thought to how the "bigger picture" affects you, maybe this can act as a wake up call. It's all connected, we are all connected. Here is a perfect example of how one decision about a certain subject affects a seemingly unrelated subject. |
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy         
"THE MUSIC BUSINESS IS A CRUEL AND SHALLOW MONEY TRENCH-- A LONG PLASTIC HALLWAY WHERE THIEVES AND PIMPS RUN FREE AND GOOD MEN DIE LIKE DOGS. THERE'S ALSO A NEGATIVE SIDE..." -Hunter S. Thompson |
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Fluffy
Administrator
USA
10739 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2005 : 2:32:22 PM
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Since the story above mentions the following quote,quote:
"My administration's climate change policy will be science based," President Bush declared in June 2001.
I figured this would be as good a place as any to share more "conspiracy" info with all of you. As you are probably aware, TR has been talking about or mentioning chemtrails for quite a while. These "X's in the sky" have directly affected TR and his family with their quality of life in NM. TR has documented their existence over his home for over a year and has compiled hours of video footage of the great "X's in the sky". He has followed and observed their presence and the affect on his familys health which he believes has a direct correlation. He has talked in depth to Dennis Kucinich about them and sadly DK may be the only politician willing to admit their existence, but happily, he is trying to do something about it. Of course the "govt line" is they don't exist. Easy to say until you look up into the sky. So thanx to TR I was made aware of this "phenomenon" and have begun to observe them in almost ever part of the country that I have traveled to(with the exception of DC, how ironic, I think NOT!) Some of the most extensive examples I have seen were over CA and NM, but they are almost everywhere, if you just look up. The following article helps to confirm that we are not "our of our minds" about this issue. The govt has a bill(Bill S517) that opens the door for "cloud seeding" to effectively step out of the closet. It is MY belief that if the govt is now ready to to this right in front of our face then they PROBABLY have been doing behind our back for quite a while. Does that seem so hard to believe given our govts past history with keeping us in the dark? Here's the part where you call me CRAZY! If it is so easy for them to "seed the clouds" to effect weather change, how hard would it be for them tho add a little extra to the mix and control the population by chemicals. It would sure be easy to docile down the population at the same TIMe you "control the weather". Anyway, I don't want to preach, I just wanted to make you all aware and as always let you decide where you fall on the issue. The more people that know the better. If you find yourself in the "I believe" camp, please spread the word as more people that know and are concern create a public that could cause change. Thanx for reading!
CHEMTRAILS OUT OF THE CLOSET?
by Will Thomas
08/17/05
Nearly seven years after extensive “lay downs” of lingering and spreading white plumes were first reported smearing skies over across North America, Europe is in an uproar and Washington could be close to coming clean about chemtrails.
At least the Bush White house will soon have a legitimate weather control agency to finally “launder” one of the biggest cons ever perpetrated.
Introduced in the US Senate on March 1, 2005, Bill S517 calls for a US “Weather Modification Advisory and Research Board” to officially commence operations in October 2005. When passed as expected, this law will make large-scale chemical alteration of the atmosphere legal across a formerly free and beautiful land called America.
It’s already happening.
Less than two weeks before the bill was introduced, Linda wrote from “up here in the mountains of northeast Georgia” of the worst spray day she had ever seen. “Not one day in the past two months have we had a blue sky with normal clouds,” Linda wrote. Even normal clouds “are ‘laced’ with whatever the hell is coming out of those white planes that have no engine sounds, even when they fly low enough to see there is no printing anywhere on the planes.” Several years ago the US Air Force stated that it was repainting its silver aircraft white, and retrofitting its jet tanker fleet with “hush kits” to silence their engines.
DOING SOMETHING ABOUT THE WEATHER
Whatever fresh environmental disaster Bill S517 accomplishes, this bill will ease the way for admission of a project suspected by many and confirmed by air traffic controllers at America’s biggest airports. When and if the US public demands that their government “do something” about the extreme weather pummeling their neighborhoods, Washington will be able to officially reply, “We are.”
Intended to “develop and implement a comprehensive and coordinated national weather modification policy,” the board is tasked with coordinating state and federal weather modification efforts. It’s direct mandate is stepped-up research and development aimed at developing experimental “models, devices, equipment, materials, and processes” to change or control, “by artificial methods” the development of clouds and/or precipitation in the troposphere. This weather-forming region of the atmosphere lies between Earth’s surface and the stratosphere, starting around 35,000 feet.
The federal weather modifiers will now directly oversee the cloud-seeding operations currently being carried out over dozens of states to increase rain and snowfall for irrigation, electrical power and winter recreation purposes. As droughts intensify under an onslaught of moisture-absorbing chemicals dispensed behind ozone-destroying jet tankers, and future towns wash away in sudden flash floods triggered by rain-inducing atmospheric tinkering, these unnatural disasters and other “inadvertent” effects of weather modification will be closely “studied” by the newly created board.
But no studies have been released on the implications of wide-scale alteration of regional atmospheric heat balances.
Large-scale weather modification is banned under the United Nations Environmental Modification Convention signed by Washington in 1970.
CHEMTRAILS 2005
Meanwhile, recent heavy “chemtrail” spraying over Portland, Oregon and Canada’s west coast has eased off once again. Another long-time chemtrail “hot zone”, Santa Cruz, California continues reporting clear blue skies unmarked by the chemplanes’ ugly scrawl.
As recently as May 2005, a Swiss resident sent photographs to Meria Heller’s website, reporting: “Today was one of the heaviest Spraying in Switzerland ever.”
Some Canadians also have their eyes wide open. in June 2005, large graffiti spray-painted on a major overpass in West Vancouver advised motorists: WAKE UP, LOOK UP, CHEMTRAILS ARE EVERYWHERE.
AIR FORCE INSIDER DESCRIBES WEATHER MOD MISSIONS
A senior active duty air force insider has described environmental combat missions already being flown by specially-outfitted C-130 Hercules transports, which can be reloaded, refueled and relaunched in just 10 minutes to continue their assault on violent storms afflicting US communities. Flown by regular air force pilots, these “science flights” include onboard meteorologists, who painstakingly log the results of each mission.
Big storm fronts and hurricanes require a vast amount of absorbent chemicals to reduce their destructive power. To achieve the fast turn-around times needed to complete their missions, flights of returning C-130s taxi to a stop and immediately commence refueling as the empty onboard spray canister is removed. as soon as the empty canister is clear of the aircraft, a waiting truck wheels a semi-trailer-size container of sky-seeding chemicals to the plane’s lowered rear ramp, where it is slid inside on rails like a gigantic “soda dispenser”.
The air force insider added that other spray missions spread (barium) chemtrails to facilitate 3D radar mapping of the entire continental United States. He also said that the air force has been spraying storm fronts “for a long time”. The military’s main interest, he added, is experimentation aimed at gaining control of the weather for military use.
Did the air force spray this year’s first Caribbean hurricane, in which the western quadrant disintegrated just before making its Texas landfall? “There’s no reason they wouldn’t,” the air force insider replied.
But C-130 turboprops would not necessarily be used to try to influence hurricanes that typically release more energy than all atomic arsenals combined. Referring to the 757s-767's recently modified for aerial spraying, the air force insider told willthomas.net, “We’ve got them, but I can’t talk about them.”
He added that many people in the air force “are aware of William Thomas” and his reporting on chemtrails. The air force insider confirmed that this reporter “has it mostly right” concerning the application and purposes behind chemtrails. But would not elaborate on my reporting.
EUROPEAN CHEMTRAIL UPROAR
Meanwhile, the chemtrails controversy has taken Europe by storm following a series of articles by Swiss freelance journalist Gabriel Stetter in the German popular science magazine Raum+Zeit (Space and Time), circulation circa 50,000.
Stetter’s first article, “White Skies” created a public relations nightmare for Greenpeace when it informed readers in January 2004 how “Thousands of people were thoroughly shocked when they realized, and were informed by Greenpeace in Germany, Switzerland and Austria that—for some reason or other—Greenpeace has no interest in the chemtrail question whatsoever.”
The Swiss government also came under public pressure to explain the checkerboards being painted in its skies. On March 5, 2004 the Environment Department in Berne, Switzerland responded to an inquiry by Rudolf Rechsteiner, a Social Democratic member of parliament, admitting that “A number of ideas exist that show how it would be possible to reduce global warming by technical means, at least in the short term.”
But these ideas, the government office hastened to add, “are no more than theoretical. We are not aware of any practical application of these methods, either at home or abroad.”
Ten days later, Greenpeace Switzerland climate and transport expert Cyrill Studer wrote an internal memo assuring colleagues that while he had “heard of the chemtrails phenomenon,” for the present, Greenpeace “will not be following up the theme of chemtrails.”
Two reasons for inaction by Greenpeace climate change activists were given. First, Studer explained, “There is not a sufficiently solid scientific basis” for Greenpeace to risk its budget and reputation verifying this “supposed phenomenon”. To do so, he added in his memo to Greenpeace staff, “would overstretch our capacities…Important elements of our climate campaign would suffer, particularly the promotion of energy efficiency and of renewable energies, or our active influence in present-day politics.”
But outside Greenpeace’s corporate offices, the controversy continued. On June 11 German Greenpeace spokeswoman Kristine Läger told concerned constituents:
The idea of reducing global warming by putting chemicals in the atmosphere has been around a long time. There are various proposals in this direction, suggesting the chemicals should be independently sprayed and that they should be mixed with the fuel of ordinary passenger aircraft. Whether in Germany such proposals have reached the point of actual realization is highly questionable. So far as we are aware there are no indications from research and observation of weather and climate that these so-called chemtrails exist. Nor are we aware of any project that has been realized in practice.. in all probability this is not happening.
But Gabriel Stetter believes that the Greenpeace “Rainbow Warriors” know all about the rainbows in the sky. They probably also know of geoengineering studies to reduce incoming sunlight and slow global warming issued by the National Academy of Sciences. “And they may even have taken a look at the (*Welsbach Patent - view pdf file*),” he writes. “But they have no idea what conclusions to draw from the chessboard pattern suspended in the Hamburg sky or the aluminium-enriched ‘rainbows’.
“Supposing the word ‘chemtrails’ appeared in print in the Greenpeace Magazine,” Stetter speculates. “How many tens of thousands of people more would look up into the sky and recognize that the supposedly Utopian “proposal” has long moved on via “spraying trials” to a systematic, long-term spreading of cloud cover over the whole of Europe?”
Back in Basel, Gabriel Stetter quoted unsourced opinion polls showing that in this “stronghold” of chemtrails believers, one in ten people “have already heard of them despite the media blackout. Several thousand people in the prosperous town at the bend in the Rhine know that the chemtrails phenomenon suggests that something is seriously wrong.”
Among these Swiss chemtrails activists, he explained, “are well-to-do people, who because of their environmental awareness have been for a long time, in some cases for decades, members of Greenpeace.”
Not any more.
“Veteran anti-nuclear activists, campaigners for animal welfare or against electrosmog—in their alarm they had all turned to Greenpeace because of the chemtrails, which are visible everywhere in the skies above Basel. But a painful experience awaited all of them. They were palmed off with the same unsatisfactory answers that we have by now grown tired of hearing. The consequence drawn by these elderly, well-to-do activists from Greenpeace’s lack of interest was the immediate cancellation of membership of many years, the withdrawal of legacies, and the withholding of payments to Greenpeace until further notice.”
As Brian Holmes notes on his website, www.holmestead.ca, the October 2004 issue #131 of the Raum + Zeit contained many pages of letters from readers responding positively to Stetter’s first article in issue #127. “Many of these letters are illustrated with color photographs supplied by the readers themselves.”
Former six-year a board member of Greenpeace Germany, Monika Griefahn chaired the Committee for Culture and Media of the Federal German Parliament when she replied to a letter from two chemtrails dissenters in July 2004, stating, “I am in basic agreement with your concerns. Instead of making a concerted and determined effort to reduce greenhouse gas emissions throughout the world, experiments of various kinds are being carried out in the earth’s atmosphere in order to cure the symptoms.”
GERMAN PARLIMENTARTIAN “ADMITS” CHEMTRAILS
Former six-year a board member of Greenpeace Germany, Monika Griefahn chaired the Committee for Culture and Media of the Federal German Parliament when she replied to a letter from two chemtrails dissenters in July 2004, stating, “I am in basic agreement with your concerns. Instead of making a concerted and determined effort to reduce greenhouse gas emissions throughout the world, experiments of various kinds are being carried out in the earth’s atmosphere in order to cure the symptoms.”
After assuring her correspondents, “I share your concern over the use of aluminum or barium compounds which have a considerable toxic potential,” the parliamentarian went on to say, “however, so far as I am aware the extent of their use is so far minimal.”
“At last!” Stetter announced in the German science magazine. “There we have it. In the skies of Germany, so Social Democratic member of Parliament Monika Griefahn tells us, aluminum and barium compounds are being spread just as tens of thousands of concerned citizens have observed, documented and bitterly deplored.”
Thanking the Honorable Griefahn her for her courage, Stetter suggested, “Maybe one day statues of politicians like Monika Griefahn or the equally plucky US Congressman Dennis Kucinich will adorn in marble splendor the squares of newly verdant German or American cities.”
That would be nice.
But the public outcry in Europe will have to spread to North America if we are to stop this massive, illegal and continuing air and atmospheric pollution.
http://www.willthomas.net/Convergence/Weekly/Chemtrails.htm
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Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy
"THE MUSIC BUSINESS IS A CRUEL AND SHALLOW MONEY TRENCH-- A LONG PLASTIC HALLWAY WHERE THIEVES AND PIMPS RUN FREE AND GOOD MEN DIE LIKE DOGS. THERE'S ALSO A NEGATIVE SIDE..." -Hunter S. Thompson |
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enthuTIMsiast
Alien Abductee
6990 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2005 : 3:19:42 PM
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| I'd love to see TR's Chemtrail pictures. |
Tim Reynolds Downloads
I am not the albatross of love, I am the human ellipsis. I am dot dot dot. - Leo Kottke
I hate beating people over the head with anything. We can all make up our own minds. What we don’t have is enough music. More music please. - Leo Kottke |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2005 : 4:13:44 PM
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Firstly if you check out Democracy Now today they had reporting dealing with the same thing your first article was about. The cuts in funding for a needed engineering action.
Secondly I knew pretty much nothing about Chemtrails and I'm very interested in this. I just last night watched a short documentary about the US pushing to militarize space and about the consequences this could have and that we are facing now. One such consequence was that we have in the past had plutonium entering our atmosphere due to space related programs using plutonium for power. It poses a huge risk for really poisining the people of earth. The plutonium being spread from our space "accidents" already has been linked to sharp raise in cancer rates and other such health concerns.
With learning more about this and Chemtrails I'm defenitely behind helping to spread this info. It's a little concerning to say the least to consider the programs this government is working on. I'm definitely going to be looking into this. |
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Fluffy
Administrator
USA
10739 Posts |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2005 : 5:29:43 PM
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Cool thanks for the links. I'm quickly researching this. So far a couple of interesting things I've found...
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c109:1:./temp/~c1092nbdFl::
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c109:2:./temp/~c1092nbdFl::
Those are links to info about the house and senate bills mentioned in the article. Sepcifically a couple things from those articles though. Firstly "(G) at least 1 shall be a representative of a State that is currently supporting operational weather modification projects." That is for any non believers out there. The bill openly admits that there are currently operational projects out there.
Secondly "(4) WEATHER MODIFICATION - The term `weather modification' means changing or controlling, or attempting to change or control, by artificial methods the natural development of atmospheric cloud forms or precipitation forms which occur in the troposphere." As in this sounds exactly like what's going on.
I have to ask WTF is the matter with these people. I mean this just seems like Satan himself couldn't be doing worse things then the government today. I mean we are pushing to control weather systems, trying to arm space and literally raping the earth and making sure the little biological expirement known as humans have no future and will like most species become extinct in the average timeline for a species which is around 100,000 to 200,000 years. Does anyone elses head feel like it's going to cave in? |
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guitarisPIMP
Yak Addict
Niue
587 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2005 : 8:13:20 PM
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If there's one thing science, history, human fucking LIFE has taught us, it's that you DONT fuck with mother nature. I think the idea of "modifying" the atmosphere is flipping ridiculous. This is for a number of reasons.
You cannot affect the climate in any region in a noticeable manner by modifying the atmosphere unless you have it on a global scale. The Earth is a biosphere in which everything affects everything, each region having a part to play in the entire cycle. Take a look at the ozone-destroying chemicals in exhaust. There is an incredibly massive volume of this shit going up there non-stop, and the supposed noticeable effects, global warming and climate change, have taken years to manifest since the early 20th century when industry and exhaust became a steeple of modern society.
That being said, compare that to the U.S. planes dropping their magical shit into the skies. Anything going into the atmosphere soon will pass across East, over the Atlantic. You can't change that, that's the global air currents. Therefore, the shit you're putting into the atmosphere is a temporary fix, leaving U.S. skies within days. I don't know how long it takes for these chemicals to react and make their "changes," but I can certainly guarantee you that there is some sort of precipitate coming from this, and chances are it's NOT good for the environment.
I don't know if anyone here has seen the movie "The Core." Personally, I think the movie is fucking horrible, but it has a very similar scenario in which the gov't fucks w/ Mother Earth, and down goes the entire system of life. It's been proven in the past that small changes to the environment affect everything in big ways. Take a look at the extinction of organisms and their impact on the food chain. Take a look at that fucking lake over in Asia that's GONE because they decided to irrigate in a place that was bone-dry.
The all the forces of nature on Earth are woven together interacting, and there's no telling what you could do by modifying it on a level as large as this shit. I'm no scientist, and I don't claim to know dick about this process they've got going, but I know that it's incomprehensibly unbeleivably asl;dkfsDFHDSKFHSDFKOJSDHFK stupid to be fucking with our environment.
Damn....that all came out pretty fast, so if it's incoherent or redundant or just plain stupid, my fault. |
my favorite color is go fuck yourself. :D |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2005 : 10:24:29 PM
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Ya I have to agree you probably don't want to mess with mother nature. I do have to say that it's like these people are trying to make like all the worst parts of the bible a reality. I can't help, but to quote some wise words from the past. Chief Seattle...
quote:
How can you buy or sell the sky, the warmth of the land? The idea is strange to us.
If we do not own the freshness of the air and the sparkle of the water, how can you buy them?
Every part of this earth is sacred to my people. Every shining pine needle, every sandy shore, every mist in the dark woods, every clearing and humming insect is holy in the memory and experience of my people. The sap which courses through the trees carries the memories of the red man.
The white man's dead forget the country of their birth when they go to walk among the stars. Our dead never forget this beautiful earth, for it is the mother of the red man. We are part of the earth and it is part of us. The perfumed flowers are our sisters; the deer, the horse, the great eagle, these are our brothers. The rocky crests, the juices in the meadows, the body heat of the pony, and man --- all belong to the same family.
So, when the Great Chief in Washington sends word that he wishes to buy our land, he asks much of us. The Great Chief sends word he will reserve us a place so that we can live comfortably to ourselves. He will be our father and we will be his children.
So, we will consider your offer to buy our land. But it will not be easy. For this land is sacred to us. This shining water that moves in the streams and rivers is not just water but the blood of our ancestors. If we sell you the land, you must remember that it is sacred, and you must teach your children that it is sacred and that each ghostly reflection in the clear water of the lakes tells of events and memories in the life of my people. The water's murmur is the voice of my father's father.
The rivers are our brothers, they quench our thirst. The rivers carry our canoes, and feed our children. If we sell you our land, you must remember, and teach your children, that the rivers are our brothers and yours, and you must henceforth give the rivers the kindness you would give any brother.
We know that the white man does not understand our ways. One portion of land is the same to him as the next, for he is a stranger who comes in the night and takes from the land whatever he needs. The earth is not his brother, but his enemy, and when he has conquered it, he moves on. He leaves his father's grave behind, and he does not care. He kidnaps the earth from his children, and he does not care. His father's grave, and his children's birthright are forgotten. He treats his mother, the earth, and his brother, the sky, as things to be bought, plundered, sold like sheep or bright beads. His appetite will devour the earth and leave behind only a desert.
I do not know. Our ways are different than your ways. The sight of your cities pains the eyes of the red man. There is no quiet place in the white man's cities. No place to hear the unfurling of leaves in spring or the rustle of the insect's wings. The clatter only seems to insult the ears. And what is there to life if a man cannot hear the lonely cry of the whippoorwill or the arguments of the frogs around the pond at night? I am a red man and do not understand. The Indian prefers the soft sound of the wind darting over the face of a pond and the smell of the wind itself, cleaned by a midday rain, or scented with pinon pine.
The air is precious to the red man for all things share the same breath, the beast, the tree, the man, they all share the same breath. The white man does not seem to notice the air he breathes. Like a man dying for many days he is numb to the stench. But if we sell you our land, you must remember that the air is precious to us, that the air shares its spirit with all the life it supports.
The wind that gave our grandfather his first breath also receives his last sigh. And if we sell you our land, you must keep it apart and sacred as a place where even the white man can go to taste the wind that is sweetened by the meadow's flowers.
So we will consider your offer to buy our land. If we decide to accept, I will make one condition - the white man must treat the beasts of this land as his brothers.
I am a savage and do not understand any other way. I have seen a thousand rotting buffaloes on the prairie, left by the white man who shot them from a passing train. I am a savage and do not understand how the smoking iron horse can be made more important than the buffalo that we kill only to stay alive.
What is man without the beasts? If all the beasts were gone, man would die from a great loneliness of the spirit. For whatever happens to the beasts, soon happens to man. All things are connected.
You must teach your children that the ground beneath their feet is the ashes of our grandfathers. So that they will respect the land, tell your children that the earth is rich with the lives of our kin. Teach your children that we have taught our children that the earth is our mother. Whatever befalls the earth befalls the sons of earth. If men spit upon the ground, they spit upon themselves.
This we know; the earth does not belong to man; man belongs to the earth. This we know. All things are connected like the blood which unites one family. All things are connected.
Even the white man, whose God walks and talks with him as friend to friend, cannot be exempt from the common destiny. We may be brothers after all. We shall see. One thing we know which the white man may one day discover; our God is the same God.
You may think now that you own Him as you wish to own our land; but you cannot. He is the God of man, and His compassion is equal for the red man and the white. The earth is precious to Him, and to harm the earth is to heap contempt on its creator. The whites too shall pass; perhaps sooner than all other tribes. Contaminate your bed and you will one night suffocate in your own waste.
But in your perishing you will shine brightly fired by the strength of the God who brought you to this land and for some special purpose gave you dominion over this land and over the red man.
That destiny is a mystery to us, for we do not understand when the buffalo are all slaughtered, the wild horses are tamed, the secret corners of the forest heavy with the scent of many men and the view of the ripe hills blotted by talking wires.
Where is the thicket? Gone. Where is the eagle? Gone.
The end of living and the beginning of survival.
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Robin
Yak Addict
USA
598 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2005 : 12:13:43 PM
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| It's sickening... the whole damn thing. Be outraged, and hopefully find something we can do about it. For now passing the info on is the best we can do,( Thanks Fluffy). Last year I was alerted to this and then a realiable source said it wasn't true. Now I see that indeed it is. So far the weather has been one of the things that humans haven't been able to control and I hope it never can, but what they're doing to the planet in the hopes of accomplishing this madness is very scary. Peace, Robin |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2005 : 4:22:11 PM
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| here's what i don't get. it's about the looters. so i'm watching footage on the news, and i see people stealing tvs and things. what are these clowns going to do with tvs? or anything else for that matter there's nowhere to put tvs, and no power even if there was. no one's going to buy them for just the same reasons. i'd have to believe that at some point, they realized that they had no use for the tv and put them back where they got them and hope no one noticed. |
death to false metal. |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2005 : 4:43:58 PM
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I'm just guessing that they would probably keep the TV's then after some sense of normality (now I'm just making up words) occurs I think they would say sweet I've got a TV, or they would say, it's time to put that TV up for sale.
What's sad is that now rescue workers or more specifically the national gaurd and police are having to focus on looters, intead of getting dehydrated starving people food. That's what's sad. Who cares if there is looting, let them take what they want (even though you gotta have something wrong with you to be looting at a time like this) and let's focus on getting people food and keeping people safe or stopping violence. Then you have Lars Larson on the radio discussing whether or not it's just fine to shoot looters on sight. It's kinda sickening. |
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Robin
Yak Addict
USA
598 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2005 : 6:04:45 PM
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| I'm wondering if anyone saw Donald Trump on the news last night, (or if I just dreamed it as I was dozing on the couch).He was ranting about "Where are the civil engineers responsible for the levees, I want to meet them". Then he wanted to know why there weren't regular six month inspections for said levees, he went on and on. HELLO!! Does he live on some distant planet? On the other hand it'd be fun to see him directing his rantings at the president.Or at least see the shock on his face with finding out the truth. What an idiot...Peace, Robin |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2005 : 6:13:45 PM
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The answer I think is that yes he lives in an entirely different world from all of us. One where he can go around living the life of a sort of king while people are suffering from all sorts of things and now it's easy for him to come down and ask questions and point a finger. So yeah what an idiot.
I must say that even though this project which Bush decided to cut money from so we can continue with an ileagal war, wouldn't have been even completed and really wouldn't have made a difference, because the project wouldn't be very far into completion, I'm more angry with the fact of what's happened after the disaster. If we didn't have troops everywhere, but where they need to be the response would have been much better. Just imagine what would happen if a more serious disaster would have occured. |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2005 : 7:39:55 PM
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on the subject of looters, i would say that you started shooting them on sight, there'd be a lot less looting and more helping people who need it.
i also don't understand the levee thing. let's set aside the fact that they built a city in hurricane territory below sea level for now. those levees are pretty important. it would see to me, for a city in that situation, that these levees would be checked often. the fact that the appropriate funds weren't provided for, you know, keeping the city from being the ocean, weren't recieved blows my mind. how does that happen? |
death to false metal. |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2005 : 8:23:48 PM
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Please tell me you are against shooting looters. That's insane. That would do little more than insight a riot that we don't need.
As far as the lack of preparedness ya it's just riduclous. How could this be known for so long and nothing be done about it? |
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Robin
Yak Addict
USA
598 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2005 : 8:34:00 PM
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Actually the levees were created originally way back when the Mississippi river was diverted, and at some point there was a major flood, and the banks of Boston and NY were leary of continued dealings with Louisianna. That's when the city had the levees built in the hopes that their standing as a major port wouldn't be seen as breached. With the diversion of the river however,the area began to slowly sink until it was below sea level. While the problem has been known for many years, it came to the forefront when the issue of the effects of global warming were being discussed.Louisianna being at risk etc. You know the rest of the story. And as for looting, if aid came in a TIMEly manner people may have been less likely to feel so desperate. I don't think shooting people is the answer.
Peace, Robin |
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Arthen
Alien Abductee
USA
4845 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2005 : 04:30:09 AM
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I have an idea, lets waste a lot of money into fixing up the city and building nice new levees and let's all be happy...
...until another huge "biblical" storm comes along and fucks everything up again. Am I the only one who thinks it doesn't make sense to keep a city in that area? Gee huge fuck off storms come this way and ruin everything we have, let's keep living here. STUPID. Sure the city is historic, sure a lot of nice people live there, etc, etc. If we want the government to really protect people and prevent this from happening again, it would make everyone move the fuck away. |
Steve Hackett: "I'm my own opening act, you see."
Tim (before "Faceoff"): "Peace, love....and SEX!"
cbenc41@hotmail.com |
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PJK
Alien Abductee
USA
4159 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2005 : 06:37:47 AM
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Oh how different the relief efforts would be if this had only been a Presidential election year! Too bad that was last year. Thats all I have to say about "W" and Katrina.
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"It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!"Friedrich Nietzsche |
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Robin
Yak Addict
USA
598 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2005 : 12:14:50 PM
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| Isn't that the truth! Did you catch how the press reported he was being photgraphed in the Rose Garden, so the American people could see he was taking this seriously and be reassured? You know, now that he's got a clue and all...Peace, Robin |
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Fluffy
Administrator
USA
10739 Posts |
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pants_happy
Chatterbox
412 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2005 : 11:32:13 PM
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thank you Fluffy.  |
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rdj218
Try A Little Harder
USA
85 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2005 : 1:24:48 PM
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Crazy shit!! I drove through a funnel cloud just south of San Fran about 6 years ago and thought to myself "what the fuck is a funnel cloud doing here!!!?" I wonder!!!
Thank you for posting this info!!! Please keep up the outstanding posts!!!
Fluffy and the Meddling wizards |
reesa j |
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Robin
Yak Addict
USA
598 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2005 : 1:40:21 PM
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| Hey Reesa! How're you doing?It is weird how many more hurricanes there are now too. I'm leaving for Kauai on Friday and there are THREE swirling around the pacific right now. The whole weather manipulation is more than I can deal with. Mother Earth is not happy .... Peace,Robin |
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pants_happy
Chatterbox
412 Posts |
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PJK
Alien Abductee
USA
4159 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2005 : 8:07:53 PM
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I just read something on another message board I visit that really turned my stomach. This guy just talked to a cop he knows who is involved in the clean up efforts. He said one of the reasons the death toll may seem low compared to the amount of destruction is because the gators are eating the dead bodies! This cop wittnessed gators eating the dead bodies of children!
How sad is that? |
"It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!"Friedrich Nietzsche |
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Oozle
Chatterbox
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2005 : 12:40:23 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by PJK
I just read something on another message board I visit that really turned my stomach. This guy just talked to a cop he knows who is involved in the clean up efforts. He said one of the reasons the death toll may seem low compared to the amount of destruction is because the gators are eating the dead bodies! This cop wittnessed gators eating the dead bodies of children!
How sad is that?
I have wondered why there were not more alligator stories. I used to live in New Orleans, alligators are too common down there to have not been eating people.... |
ren :) |
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Katrina & "W" / Weather Modification
