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Fluffy
Administrator
USA
10739 Posts |
 Posted - 11/05/2002 : 05:22:33 AM
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You guys are always asking about technique and excercises, so I thought you might like to read some of the tips of a master as relayed by his students. Hope you guys find this as interesting as I did. Hell, and I am not even a guitar player.
FIRST:
Miguel had the opportunity to take lessons from Andres Segovia when he lived in Spain. (If you don't know who Segovia is, he was the most influential classical guitarist of this century, if not of all time.)
"I think Segovia was given by God a certain touch that no one else had," Miguel said. "He played Jose Ramirez guitars, the same ones everyone had access to, but his tone still stands out from anyone else's."
"Segovia was a very strict teacher," Miguel added. "He taught me technique which entails the way you sit, hold the guitar, and how to use your fingers to pluck the strings. Technique determines your tone and coordination as a player."
In order to take lessons from Segovia, one had to audition to prove advanced enough before Segovia would accept you. Miguel remembers him as a very funny and philosophical man.
"I remember one time someone asked Segovia, 'Maestro, what is the difference between flamenco and classical guitar?'" Miguel said. "He responded that a flamenco guitarist learns a song, memorizes it and goes on to the next song. A classical guitarist, however, practices and practices a song until he perfects it, and the result is day and night."
JUST THOUGHT THAT WAS BEAUTIFUL SO I ADDED IT:
SECOND:
http://neuro-oas.mgh.harvard.edu/tigertunes/segovia.html
THIRD:
http://indra.com/~jkenyon/parkening.html
These were interesting reading, even for me, a non-guitar player. I bet you players could pull some really valuable tips and excercises out of these. LMK what you think. |
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy         
"THE MUSIC BUSINESS IS A CRUEL AND SHALLOW MONEY TRENCH-- A LONG PLASTIC HALLWAY WHERE THIEVES AND PIMPS RUN FREE AND GOOD MEN DIE LIKE DOGS. THERE'S ALSO A NEGATIVE SIDE..." -Hunter S. Thompson |
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NeverKillADream
Yak Addict
USA
652 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2002 : 3:09:23 PM
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| excellent, i am a big segovia, there is a spanish flamenco player out now named "esteban" who was a student of Segovias' his website has great Sevogia related advice as well... |
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Fluffy
Administrator
USA
10739 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2002 : 2:22:32 PM
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| Strangely, I just saw an infomercial on TV last nite about a guitar course you can order from Esteban and you get a FREE guitar with your purchase signed by Estaban. 3 EZ payments of $33. The stuff I heard him playing sounded amazing but I can't imagine learning to play guitar LIKE THAT from a video. HEHE |
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy
"THE MUSIC BUSINESS IS A CRUEL AND SHALLOW MONEY TRENCH-- A LONG PLASTIC HALLWAY WHERE THIEVES AND PIMPS RUN FREE AND GOOD MEN DIE LIKE DOGS. THERE'S ALSO A NEGATIVE SIDE..." -Hunter S. Thompson |
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backdrft52
Is Anybody Here?
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2003 : 12:17:24 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Fluffy
Strangely, I just saw an infomercial on TV last nite about a guitar course you can order from Esteban and you get a FREE guitar with your purchase signed by Estaban. 3 EZ payments of $33. The stuff I heard him playing sounded amazing but I can't imagine learning to play guitar LIKE THAT from a video. HEHE
It is important that I find out more information about this infomercial. I purchased this guitar but now can't seem who I purchased the guitar from. I have waited for over three weeks and now reordered it from the HSN. If you know who was putting this on please let me know. Thank you. Brad Wilson bwilson1@sw.rr.com |
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CPPJames
Yak Addict
Fyro Macedonia
800 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2003 : 02:44:16 AM
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| I have seen the Esteban informercial no less than 10 times in the last few years and no doubt, he's a solid guitar player. No TIM of course, but still...pretty solid flamenco guitarist. In any event, I can't imagine that for 3 x $33 you'd be that good =). |
There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those that understand binary, and those that don't. |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2003 : 8:49:35 PM
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| i'm doing classical stuff now. pain in the ass, but i need it for college auditions, plus, if i get good, it'll sound cool. |
death to false metal. |
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therippa
Fluffy-Esque
Kazakhstan
1099 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2004 : 07:37:56 AM
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Esteban strikes back.
Brand new "Elite American Legacy" model
They're comparing it to what appears to be an extremely high end Martin (appears to be CEO model) priced at $5,800.
Comparison according to the lady. They're both made of wood.
Some lady said "I pray to God everyday for Esteban"
They are using girls with french tips on their fretting hands to endorse the guitar as if they can play it.
This guy is fucking creepy. |
Aspiring to Be Fluffy-Esque an Alien Abductee! |
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JTR
Chatterbox
417 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2004 : 07:48:32 AM
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Yes, I saw these new Esteban guitar commerical. The sales woman/partner holds it up next to some high end model and says, "Look, this guitar we're selling even looks nicer than that model worth over $5000." Yes... it looks nicer... What about the damn tone, you moron. The woman sits there with one on her lap for a half hour, and at no point does she look remotely comfortable with it on her lap. This new model comes with a tiny amp, which I'm sure would be great for practicing, etc, but Esteban himself says that this "small but extremely powerful amp" can fill a very large room with the sound of music. Thing looked about as big as my toaster.
Esteban sold his soul to learn from Segovia, and then he sold another soul to sell mass market starter sets on cable infomercials. Bah. |
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Kevin
Chatterbox
USA
196 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2004 : 11:11:01 PM
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I hate those Esteban commercials! There is no way that the guitar they are selling is made of solid wood  Unless they're making the guitar outta plywood, there's no way the entire guitar can be solid wood and cost less than 100 bones. I mean, Martin's no Taylor, but you still shouldn't be comparing a Martin to Esteban's large doorstop :-/
BTW, the first link didn't work for me  I liked the other link, though...thanks! |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2004 : 1:31:25 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dan p.
i'm doing classical stuff now. pain in the ass, but i need it for college auditions, plus, if i get good, it'll sound cool.
Still doing classical? If you are you probably are getting pretty good by now. I never got used to having nails. Did it for like five years and I just got tired of constantly learning new pieces. I felt like a robot after a while that just learned notes and played them. The only way I could do that classical thing is if I was writing for it. Just not my bag. |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2004 : 11:12:22 PM
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yeah, i'm still doing it. i still suck, too. i'm used to the finger nails. customers at the store bitch about them and my ex-girlfriend used to not like them either. ah well. fakes give you shitty tone. why limit myself.
there's a lot more to classical than learning the notes. the creativity of it is limited, granted. you're pretty much stuck to the printed notes. but there are ways to shape a song and sort of make it your own. you can use variance in dynamics, tone color (dolce, pontecello, whatever) ornamentation, phrase shaping, that sort of thing. some songs stay with you for life. i know i play brouwer's VIII and that one mauro guiliani appeggio study in e minor daily. same with carcassi's 3rd etude from his "25 progressive and melodious studies op. 60" i think it's 60, anyway. obviously you move on to bigger and better things, but some songs you just keep playing. i mean, i can't imagine getting sick of the 10 brouwer short pieces. i play II, III, V, and VIII constantly. they're so strange sounding. there's a lot of fun intervalic things he does. it seems so simple to watch and here, but once you analyze the music, you run into all kinds of neat things. there's a lot of bach pieces arranged for guitar, too. the cello suites, the lute suites, little fugue. all kinds of great music.
classical can get tiresome, though. especially with some of the nit picky points on technique. a lot of it really does help with smoothness and tone, but some of it just baffles me. |
death to false metal. |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2004 : 11:30:24 PM
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Dan I'll have to check out that Brouwer guy casue I not familar with him. Although I also studied the Carcassi Etude book with the 25 progressive studies. There are some cool ones. I definitely dig Guiliani though. I'll have to look and see what pieces of his I play. I really should have stuck with playing classical. I can still play but music is not like riding a bike as it does not all come back even though I play enought to read through some of the pieces my technique and tone are not good. I have a hard time now making the pieces really beutiful and expressive. Oh and all the Bach stuff is just great on guitar. I started learning Parkening's version of Sheep may Safely graze, but it's a bitch and a half. I mean E is dropped to C and A to G then he has this reach from the fifth fret on the C string to the first on the G and then the second on D and then you have to lift your pinky off of the C string to put it down for the rest of the arpeggio. Then he has some cross fret barring stuff. It's almost like he sat down and said I'm going to make these as hard as possible. It's hard for me to make it smooth and keep the C string quiet on the pull off.
I'm not patient and I think you have to be to be a true classical player. I'm too much into the creative aspect of music at this point. Classical definitly has a bunch of room to be creative still but it's not like Jazz so much. I just don't think I have the discipline. My teacher used to bitch slap me every week because I would always ritard stuff and completely interpert it differently than it was supposed to be played and he would tell me that it's fine for some things but not for what I was playing then tell me that if I need to be able to play it how it's written before I can intepret it my way. Then he would tell me I needed to practice twice as much and all that. He just expected a lot but he was a damn good teacher. Taught me so much about just technique that even though I still think my technique is shoddy I at least no what is technically not right. |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2004 : 1:10:09 PM
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i think that's ridiculous that he would tell you where to ritard and where not to, like it was written on a stone tablet with 9 other thigns. obviously, you have to follow the dynamics and tempi related things, but if you're not interpreting all your doing is going through the piece without making mistakes. that's what fucking typists do. yeah, you have to learn all the ink, ALL the ink, but afer that, you can, have to, interpret. and it's always true for everyone that you need to practice twice as much. i know i don't practice enough.
some editors are notoriously awful with fingerings, both left and right hand. the 25 carcassi etudes book i have, the editor put fucking dots under the notes instead of p i m or a. x is p. one dot is i, two dots is m, ect. it's absurd. some editors i just ignore completely and figure it out for myself. other editors i follow strictly.
you'll love brouwer. i didn't get it at first. your audience doesn't always get it, either. i played II for my first recital with my first teacher, and the audience didn't even clap at the end. i played it well, but it's just fucking weird sounding. the music totally baffled me. but as you play it, you like it more. VIII is my favorite. we also played a tocatta of his in guitar ensamble last fall. i loved the shit out of it. really angular and dissonant at some points, but brilliant all the way through. |
death to false metal. |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2004 : 11:02:54 PM
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Ya dan I thought it was a little lame myself, but I he also explained his reasoning. He basically would give me recordings to listen to of people playing what it is I would play and he would point to that as kinda how it should be played. Sometimes I would have no recording and he would just want me to play it straight unless it was notated otherwise. He said he just wanted me to learn to play it like that then I could interperet it how I wanted too.
Don't even get me started on fingerings either. Some books are just fucking jokes. I usually end up penciling in left hand stuff and I almost never follow stricly the right hand PIMA stuff although I usually try to stay somewhat close. BTW what school are you going to? Since I'm studying music myself I'm just interested to see what other people are doing and what degree you're going to get and what you plan on doing with it.
BTW Mondel Lowe (?spelling) came in with this bass player and performed for our class wednesday. Man the guy has played with everyone from Bird, to Bill Evans, to Miles and basically anyone you can name. Talk about some good playing advice and his no BS method of playing. He gave me some great practice advice and told me to learn a tune a week and commit it to memory. Man I'm glad I'm not a math major. |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 10/30/2004 : 12:41:58 PM
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i go to a shitty 2 year school in schenectady new york that happens to have a real good music program. their culinary and drama programs are good, too. i'm currently in the music: performing arts course and should have an associates degree in music performance by spring. then i'll probably transfer out to skidmore, ithaca or nazareth, depending for music edumacation. that's really all you can do with a music degree is teach.
the memorizing a tune a week idea is good, but if you're working on larger scale things it's not always practical. |
death to false metal. |
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Zachmozach
Fluffy-Esque
USA
1534 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2004 : 6:02:08 PM
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Ha I go to a shitty school in here called clackams community college. However it does have a damn good music program and we are moving into our new building this week and the new building is pretty fucking cool. Our department head has connecitons too so we get all kinds of cool guests and the theory teacher should really be at a university. At least that's what everyone tells me.
Ya he also said that's if you're practicing 4 to 5 hours a day. Which he said if you want to be a musician you better damn well be doing just that. Probably more. Anyway I'm going to see if the library has some of that brouwer guys stuff around. If the music is really different I'll probably love it. I just like that different weird type of music. |
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dan p.
Alien Abductee
Uganda
3776 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2004 : 12:40:39 AM
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| if you can, find his "10 etudes simples" they're short and they seem simple, but they're strange sounding and the more you look at it, the less simple they become. very subtle music. |
death to false metal. |
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SEGOVIA, for the guitar players
